How Can You Effectively Use Charge?
General_Jah
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7557Members
Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7557Members
I've been playing NS a lot lately with 3.0 coming out, mainly in combat to test out the new abilities of the different aliens/marine combos, and it seems to me that the Onos is really weak or I'm not able to effectively use his abilities. Charge is one of those skills that I just can't seem to get to work. I've charge right into marines and for 320/dam per hit it doesn't seem to do jack. I've also charged right into the command center and not seen any damage worthwhile occur. Is there some art to using charge that I'm missing or is it just a real worthless skill that doesn't work? Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks
Thanks
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Oh yeah, it's not you it's just that charge is pap.
To use it correctly: 1) search, as there have been many topics about this before
2) Hold down the forward key as you press against something, or stand on top of it. Otherwise pretty much no damage
3) Ducking (while still holding forward) slows you down, making it easier to connect with your charge instead of blowing past your prey. Obviously, only go slow when you've caught them!
C'mon, 3 hive onos with all upgrades? Can't get past one, louzy marine? Next, one sneaks behind the onos, and by the time the first marine is dead (~2 seconds), all the marines have emptied their clips. Now, how much damage lv.3 LMG did, full clip? Throw in a few shotguns.
That's what happened to me: onos got toasted because he stopped dead to his tracks for 2 seconds, not causing any visible damage at all. Needless to say; "never again charge."
Guess that is the same reason no one else uses it; gore is so much easier to use and more reliable. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think that charge is the single ability in ns that needs to be either completely replaced or rethought in implimentation.
[OldF] Florp Incarnate
I chased this one lmg guy, and decided to charge. ROAR! I didn't actually run at him directly (facing my aim on him), and i didn't seem to quite touch him as he fell before i ran over his corpse perhaps the distance was similar to bite/gore/devour distance. Ahem, and i took down one HA guy with charge pretty much the same way. If i remember correctly, i think i aimed at his legs.
HitBox collide is only needed so you don't have to charge directly at your target since onos is big/wide, you can try to get past him but still hitting him from the sides. Next time when i'm playing combat perhaps its time to practice the art of charging <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
edit: In LAN game vs bots (or humans) charge works nicely, i think it might be happening too fast for the Internet Server to register or something strange, maybe you have to duck while charging (& moving forward) = slower movement but same damage.. mmmm.. onos time! (i hope..)
240/sec to 320/sec if I recall correctly. Similar boosting to leap, which seems to have the exact same issues with not causing damage in the first place. To be honest though, in 6 months of playing NS 2.01, I saw ONE leap kill and ONE charge kill, and I've seen about 3 leaps and at least 8 charge kills since the public beta (mostly due to people not having to be as careful in combat, experimenting more). I remember in 2.01 I bit a marine once then got three leaps point blank against him, and still didn't kill him. So they're both quirky.
Just gore while you charge - even if it worked properly there's no reason you shouldn't. The extra speed is nice for a run-through-the-base. What I would like to see is to have charge have a heavy blowback like xenocide, so charging through a line of marines would fling them off to the sides, without necessarily killing them. Basically kind of a "get the hell out of my way, I got a TF to kill." It seems realistic, why should marines be able to form a human wall to stop an onos?
back in 1.04 all all you have to do is stand on a structure and look down, then charge and go O_O as the structure takes massive damage, I think that trick still works, charge applies damage per touch
I like Charge the ability, it really fits the onos... but right now it sucks. Please realise that damage over time abilities suck unless you can shoot them (spores) and run away letting the damage soak into the rines.
240/sec to 320/sec if I recall correctly. Similar boosting to leap, which seems to have the exact same issues with not causing damage in the first place. To be honest though, in 6 months of playing NS 2.01, I saw ONE leap kill and ONE charge kill, and I've seen about 3 leaps and at least 8 charge kills since the public beta (mostly due to people not having to be as careful in combat, experimenting more). I remember in 2.01 I bit a marine once then got three leaps point blank against him, and still didn't kill him. So they're both quirky. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No no, I'm pretty sure about the 2.01 damages (40 for leap 80 for charges). Leap got a fairly small increase, but charge at least tripled in damage for 3.0.
In the 2.0 release, charge and leap had just been fixed to not rely on framrate anymore, so weren't anywhere close to balanced.
leap and charge share the same code, just differnt damage numbers.
leap and charge do damage per TOUCH not per second. Once you understand that it does damage per touch NOT persecond youll realise that a single leap has a potential to deal 80 damage BUt realisticly does like 8 10 damage touches within a second. Both charge and leap are coded this way.
Back in 1.04 leap was fine... perfectly fine. At 60-70 fps the damage was enough to make in viable agiast both LA and HA marines, but not so much that marines had no chance. The damage didnt need to be raped to all hell like flayra did to it. Having it set to kill a lvl 3 armor LA marine in 1 second is perfectly acceptable. Leap is very hard to aim when trying to deal damage to a strafing marine. I dont know what flay was thining, but he probobly was getting a bunch of ***** letters from "vetrens" saying that poeple liek me were obliterating HA and LA marines with 2 - 1 leaps respectivly. How is leaping into the face of a LA marine that was camping in the corner and killign him in 1 second unbalanced? in 1.04 you could also kill Noob HA marines in 2 seconds with 2 leaps. How you ask? Well heres the situation.
im sitting on the ceiling in sewer hive. A single HA HMG marine walks in moves into a corner and crouches. So i leap off the ceiling onto his head. First leap #1 second- he doesnt move but looks franticly back and forth. Second leap #2 second- still sits there crouchign while wondering were the hell i am. Then he dies.... so instead of moving around to avoid taking damage, he sits their and after he dies he shouts ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE!!! I killed an HA marine who stood still in a corner camping... weres the justice, were?
sigh.... id hate for ns to go the way of cs.. 100's of guns but only 4 are effective.
thats what im seeing right now. The primary attacks and secondary attacks are thought out... but past that the abilitys for each class seems to trail off into a acid induced balance trip. I mean how could almost 1000 pts NOT see that charge and leap didnt do jack squat? i noticed it within the first 4 minutes of the first game i played..... you only have to use both abilitys once to understand that your not going to get kills from them... i jsut dont understand.
Charge gives the onos a quick way outta trouble. Someone once described it as the onos panic button. Useful, yet not three hive material. I too like the blowback idea for charge. Very realistic.
Edit ::the delay between switching was indeed unitentional NOT a script preventions thing. Mods have no problem with leap biting and is a viable part of the game
Edit ::the delay between switching was indeed unitentional NOT a script preventions thing. Mods have no problem with leap biting and is a viable part of the game
The Knockback is a good idea, and if introduced the per touche damage should be ramped up to kill a lvl0 LA marine in 1 touch. Yes this would make charge a very powerful weapon BUT as a 3rd hive ability on the powerful alien class in the game it should be.
I tried charge again yesterday, repeatedly charging into a base full of LA marines and redeeming before making a single kill, in the end I went in with good old fashioned 1 hive gore and ripped the base apart. This is just wrong. It might even be worth swapping gore and charge round so charge is a 1 hive ability, meaning the onos is only really any use as a base crusher until hive 3.
In my view three things need to be addresses for the aliens as a matter of urgency
Blink - atmosphere
Ranged attacks - needs a spike replacement/alternate
Charge - currently useless.
* fix leap damage so that 1 leap can do more than enough damage to kill an LA marine.
* make 4 touches of charge be enough to kill an LA marine (because i think theres 4 touches possible in a second)
We're talking 80 res for the 2nd and 3rd hives, plus 75 res for the Onos itself. 155 res is a hella lot for a fairly useless ability.
* fix leap damage so that 1 leap can do more than enough damage to kill an LA marine.
* make 4 touches of charge be enough to kill an LA marine (because i think theres 4 touches possible in a second) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't forgetting leap... but I have seen leap used with focus bite and I'd say thats pretty damn powerful....
On topic, this idea for charge seems to be getting support everywhere, and other people have suggested it too. It doesn't even have to do much damage to marines, just maybe 20-50 but knock them 10 feet away, then when you touch a building it does 400-500 damage and the charge ends. What do we have to do to get this suggested? (Lord knows the I&S forums are worthless...)