Combat Is Good, And This Is Why:

f3rret · February 2004

WARNING: There is some analysis in here. Don't read this if you don't feel like thinking a bit before replying.

NS gameplay has what is referred to as "a slippery slope". If you build a res tower right off the start, but it gets destroyed, then you've already started down the slippery slope to failiure. It is now more difficult for you and your team to become more powerful. It will be harder for you to win just because of that one res tower going down.

Also, if you spend res on an upgrade, but get killed, then all that res you had was wasted. Again, you have lost some effectiveness, and it will be harder for your team to win.

CO gameplay eliminates the slippery slope. There is no way to progress BACKWARDS in your fighting effectiveness. If you die without getting any XP, well, at least you aren't any worse off. You automatically come back with all your upgrades, which is nice.

This gives people the feeling that there always is hope. They are always progressing FORWARD, and they don't ever LOSE something they had. There is no frustration at losing an expensive upgrade.

The down side to this is that there is no motivation to stay alive, really. Except that you don't want the other team to get XP for killing you.

Combat still keeps all the cool aspects of original NS: stalking someone with a skulk, charging in with a team of your marine buddies, and so on.

In conclusion: CO rocks, thanks Flayra!

Status_Quo · February 2004

My problem with combat is that it's too linear. You just run off, kill a few enemies hopefully, get killed, and respawn. Once you reach L10, you aint going nowhere and it just becomes a mindless team-deathmatch. As advertised, combat may be furious, but fast it is not. I've seen one round end in less than 20 minutes, and that was simply because the teams were incredibly stacked. In my mind, it just goes on and on until one team eventually win because the other side is too tired to fight anymore, or simply out of pure luck.

Still, that's my problem. Yes, I do feel that whoever thought of combat should be hung from a tree and shot (metaphorically speaking), but classic is still there. Perhaps combat will take over, but if it does, it's because it's more popular. If it wasn't, it wouldn't take over. And if it is more popular, it's all for the best in the end (I still think it should die a horrible death however).

MrMojo · February 2004

Yes, no slippery slope here. Just facts : one jp/shotgun or hmg does more damage to the hive than the entire alien team does to the cc.

There is no backwards process, I agree, but the forward process is always the same, unlike NS.

f3rret · February 2004

Ooh, I didn't think of that. That's true, that the forward process can change a lot, depending on what route the commander/gorges take.

Hopefully there will be enough people who like each gametype that we can keep them both alive. CO may be the thing to attract a lot of new players. Once they get used to CO, then they gan give NS a shot, and we may be able to significantly increase the NS fanbase as a whole. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Buggy · February 2004

i agree with Status Quo.

Combat isn't good, because you do everything the same ways, over. and over. and over. again, and repeat until it has become so incredibly boring, that you will leave servers on sight of co maps

e_Nadagast · February 2004

Combat in it's current form is absolutely stupid, because it ISN'T about team DM or any personal skill really (unless you're just waaay better), it's about mindlessly flinging yourself at an objective instead of killing. Aliens especially have to do this because they only have melee attacks for the most part and while marines can walk/fly around while attacking the hive the aliens have to be pretty much stationary and in the line of fire. This means that the only effective way to kill the CC is a few onos and umbra, while you ignore the marines and attack the CC only. It's absolutely moronic gameplay and it needs a huge overhaul.

Edit: And if CO wasn't so unbalanced there would be a huge slippery slope. More so than normal NS.

delc82 · February 2004

I love combat, it is excellent but i am more happy because ns classic is there and there is always another option if you have a monotonous game <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Basinx · February 2004

If there was a better selection of skills (or more levels to some of them) and a way higher level cap then it would be a lot better.
I hate level caps!

f3rret · February 2004

I like the level cap, because it makes you think about what you want to end up as, and you have to work towards it. This way there is at least some difference in marines and aliens at level 10.

Salvation_r2 · February 2004

what you say may be true

but co is nothing more then cs, ns style

but it is ok every year or so to play i guess

Legionnaired · February 2004

I really like co once gotten used to it, it affords better practice and testing out builds that could never be played around with in an NS map, during a game where fouling up once as a higher lifeform could spell disaster.

It allows practice, honing of skills, and allows the commanders among us a frag-break in between high-tension sessions of ordering their marines around. If you don't like it, don't play it.

dr_d · February 2004

Bigger maps, all I gotta say.

RabidWeasel · February 2004

This is one of the reasons why I dislike combat - death has no sting to it. A slight XP loss on death would greatly improve combat by punishing careless play, although I realise it will never be put in because it will result in mindless camping on both sides.

ekent · February 2004

Theoretically at least, the slippery slope in combat should be even more obvious. If you die without getting experience, you have just upgraded your enemy while you are still at the same level, leaving you behind. And then the next time you go out, you're facing a stronger opponent who is more likely to kill you.

really · February 2004

I reckon co may have its down sides but its still good and like some of the other members said theres alway the classic ns to go bak to if u get sik of it. I really dont no what the big fus is about.

Personally i enjoy both especially when u try and fight an onos <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' />

RaVe · February 2004

I guess combat was one way of fixing the steep learning curve of NS....

And I have to say, it has done half its job, but of course, some things aren't good as well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

Hopefully the full 3.0 release will fix the issues <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Status_Quo · February 2004

Combat is, more or less, NS without most strategic elements. And let's be honest here, NS is not a very good FPS (at least I don't think so). Yes, I said it. It's not *bad* as such, it's just, you know, another slight variation of the same concept. I'm here because I found the difference between NS and most other games attractive. I fail to see how turning it into a pure FPS will make it better. There are better FPS games out there if that's what I'm looking for.

Spazmatic · February 2004

Combat is GUH-REAT for practice. Anyone who argues with that better have an essay to back 'em up, because that's more or less a fact. No damage to the team, lots of chances to practice (say, lerk flight, or leap+bite timing), lots of flexibilty, and tough enemies... Hmm. Great for practice.

Ledneh · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spazmatic @ Feb 7 2004, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Combat is GUH-REAT for practice. Anyone who argues with that better have an essay to back 'em up, because that's more or less a fact. No damage to the team, lots of chances to practice (say, lerk flight, or leap+bite timing), lots of flexibilty, and tough enemies... Hmm. Great for practice.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
We have a winner, folks.

Seriously, though, Combat is what made me realize how much arse I kick with a Celerity, Focused Fade, and the practice I get in CO of Blink-by's (wherein you blink and swipe in succession, killing a marine mid-blink) has been great help. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Luminair · February 2004

Combat is awesome fun. I probably wouldn't be playing NS right now if it wasn't for Combat.

chia-ono · February 2004

How can you not see the obvious 'slippery slope' you speak of... Try joining a combat game 5 minutes into the game where everyone else is already 3 4 levels above you on the opposing team.

Another situation is that sometimes you just can't get any kills due to marine camping/alien camping whatever or you always seem to die first out of the squad/pack and you will not be award with any exp.

And what about choosing the wrong upgrades for the first two three levels? Its even more frustrating to be in those situations. That is only from a personal point of view.

When the whole picture is involved, the slope get steeper because, due to your lower level or bad upgrade selection, the opposing team will get more kills off of you and making them more powerful than your teammates.

In my opinion, combat requires same or somewhat more teamwork than the normal mode, but it is just at a higher pace. If you have a loner who runs around out of his own whim, chances are he is ganna get killed a lot. And that means higher and faster upgrades for opposing team. That usually is followed by more kills and even more upgrades for the enemy and their teammates in the vincinity. When teammates work together, they get the exp without even making the kill...now if you were alone and making these kills then fine, you level up fast, but if there are a few teammates around you then they are going to level faster = more able to make kills = more exp for yourself. Anyone who says a single person has no influence to the combat team is dead wrong.

Combat Is Good, And This Is Why:

Comments