matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin-welthqa+Feb 11 2004, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (welthqa @ Feb 11 2004, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I disagree with the marine bias thing. I think the addition of the extra res nodes will show favor for aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Extra res nodes has always been a marine advantage, as it makes it harder for the aliens to hold the number of marine controlled res towers down.
Since Immacolata decided to lock the other thread and mash two others into this <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> I'll re-post my thoughts, without the technical issues (the leak in Maint and the weird Water = Silhoutes) as others have pointed them out here.
Removal of the double siege spot is great and will be much appreciated (though probably cursed by a commander or two <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). The reuse of the "Pods" from the lower Processing Res Node in Marine Start and by Archiving is a very cool touch and brings a unifying theme to the whole map. The problem with the Pod in MS is that the CC area is a little too cramped for Comfort for the Onos, I think maybe removing this wall could help a bit:
My number one gameplay concern, however, it the sheer amount of res near Marine Start now. You have the MS Res, General Cargo Storage and Maintenance Corridor all within 10 seconds of the Comm Chair. In addition Maintenance is not much further, and neither is Hera Entrance. Plus, with the new entrance from Cargo you can reach Holoroom in under 15 seconds. For these reasons I recommend two changes: Add the weldable from MS to Cargo back in and remove the Hera Entrance Res Node.
With the new path to Holo, plus with its access to Processing, Cargo is incredibly valuable territory now. Without the weldable the Marine's can get a foothold there far too quickly, and from there they have incredibly easy access to Holoroom and Processing, so it seems fair they need to "pay" for all of this with a welder (I personally think the weldable could only be accessible from Cargo only, IE no welding from MS, but I think this would be very unpopular with other players).
Beyond removing a res node from the Marine's early grasp, I suggest removing the Hera Entrance node for multiple reasons. First its no longer needed as the secondary node to the Archiving Hive, so its not crucial for Aliens starting there to have that node. Secondly Hera Entrance is an incredibly attractive relocation point for the Marines, as they can cover Holoroom with Sieges and easily defend a base there. Removing the res node would remove this incentive considerably and would help draw attention to other parts of the map. And, with the inclusion of the Maintenance Corridor Res Node the Marine's have an alternative "easy first node."
I really like the restructuring of the map, especially that of the aforementioned MS and also around Archiving. Opening the area up, no more lifts of weldable "hedge" seems like a huge asthetic and gameplay improvement.
That said I think Archiving needs some consideration as you can cover the Archiving Hive, the Node in that Hive, the Node outside the Hive, both Holoroom Nodes and the Hera Entrance Node (should it remain) with a single TF with Sieges (it requires some creative building, but it is easily do able). I don't think it'll be possible, without a complete overhaul, to remove the problem of Holo and Data Core Alpha being covered by the same TF, but I think you can solve the problem of Archiving, and its node by increasing the length of the two halls and the vent that Lead from Data Core Alpha (DCA) into the Hive area, and move the Hive's Res node much closer to the hive. I like the asthetic of the Node being in the control room in Archiving, but for gameplay reasons (mainly the siege issue) I'd move it to the back of the room. That would allow a Commander to cover either DCA and Archiving with a TF, or Cover DCA and Holoroom, but not all 3 simulataneously.
I absolutely love this map, and I have ever since 1.03 (when I started playing) and I was very excited when it got updated in 2.0, and was nearly exstatic when Flayra announced it was getting an (unexpected) update in 3.0. Great job overall and I can't wait to see this map back in regular server rotations with all the optimizations.
Only played the map five times (marines won three times), so please take the following with a pinch of salt. My opinion? While it's no longer as vital to relocate, the ease of access to holo from marine start gives the aliens a hard time. It only takes a marine fifteen-odd seconds to get there.
Maybe moving cargo res node up onto the higher level (in an alcove next to the door, perhaps) would make it a easier for the aliens to attack; although it would still be near the marine start, canny kharaa can easily hear any incoming enemies. As it is, cargo is an easy-to-secure yet important place for marines; they can easily get to holo, proc-hall and the-rt-outside-vent. And from one of those, they can launch an attack/secure mission on one of the hives quickly.
I'd also remove the cargo-holo corridor/staircase dealie. It's just too easy on marines. Either that, or consider removing one of the RTs there...
I didn't get too much playtime around archiving, as we/they never started there. As I said, though, once marines broke through, they were pretty much able to hold it indefinately. On the whole, it looks a lot nicer than before, though. The staircases means an Onos at the bottom can now get up to marines on the top level without having to wait for a lift; good move.
I'm currently working on an in-depth analasis of ns_hera and intend to show my ideas to Merkaba in case he feels like modifying and implementing some, but this will require a lot of images and I was wondering what would be the best way to go about it for now.
1) Attach one picture to each post and make a -lot- of posts. 2) Externally host the images and make them load inside this topic 3) Externally link the images so the user must click them to see.
Perhaps this isn't on topic at the moment, but it will be, and I'd like to know which way is more suitable (and won't get me in trouble <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Get em hosted externally, and any images that are smaller than 640x480 (which is a 1280x960 screenshot reduced to 50% size) would be good to have appear in the topic.
If the images are going to have to make the average user with a 1024x768 desktop have to scroll sideways to view them properly then please just use links as it's freakin annoying when text starts wrapping off the screen and you can't read the whole message very easily.
This new hera seems a mixed bag in my opion. First, the things i like:
-A lot more atmosphere imo, looks alot better -The new area outside archiving is a nice improvement, and makes it more like the other two hives (one rt in or near the hive and another right outside). -I actually like the new rine start better then the old one (that elevator in 2.0 was an onos nightmare). The base is on the ground, yet the walkway is the still up top.
Now my dislikes: -Enlarge the rine start room. With the limits on structurs being a certain distance from each other, im seeing commanders forced to isolate buildings on the upper level because they wont fit in the base, and that isnt good. -Cargo is way too easy to get as marines, and lets them jump to holoroom without going through the glass hallway, which now seems fairly pointless. -Some textures look rushed, and i dont blame you. -Where did the secret room go? I was so sad to see it gone, i cried. (really)
I'm running a strict 600x450 policy on the feedback threads, please observe that. Also goes for externally hosted images. I find this image format (its 4:3, slightly smaller than standard VGA resolution of 640x480) fits a 1280x1024 message nice. Thing is, NS screenies does not warrant super high detail since there aren't supersmall details such as in a 2d RTS with 1000 of units.
Most freeware and shareware image editors can resize and touch up images really easy. I use ACDSee 6.0 PowerPack, but Hyper-Snap or PaintShop does this job fine as well.
As for showing Merkaba feedback, just fire away. I suggest you break your posts up so that they're is max 4 images per message.
I would suggest making the cargo door a weldable again. With access to holo, I'm positive that weldable will see use! Plus, early game, that's a whole lotta res real fast for the rines.
Hera is still one of my favorite maps, but boy, has it changed! So much hard work, thanks Merk!
hehe, forums don't let me post overly large numbers of images anyway, I -was- going to be lazy and have all 75+text in the one post buttttt apparently that's not an option <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They're all the right size <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
broken into chunks.
<b>Warning: Large numbers of images attached (possibly up to 80, 600x450 or less). Images are required to illustrate my points. Total size of all the images is 5.35mb. Not 56k Friendly</b>
<b>(another) Warning: a lot of the changes listed below are quite drastic and would most likely be too much to bother with, although I will state the reasons for my suggestions with each section based on my experience playing the map</b>
Bahamut?s note: I?m picky, alright? Deal with it. If part of the level makes no sense, I?ll pull it out and pick it apart. I imagine this looks quite negative, and I?m truly sorry for that, as I wrote it with a smile on my face, hoping I could help improve Hera. Don?t flame me until you?ve taken my ideas into consideration please? after that, do as you wish.
Okay, to start off with, I'd just like to say and Hera was my all time favourite map for 1.03/1.04, the feel of it, the design, the lighting, everything just made it feel great the play on, even with the marine relocations. Today, it?s still one of my favourites, just not exclusively (Origin is pretty too).
Merkaba, fabulous work. I admire your mapping skills a lot, and Hera has helped me to learn how to map better by using some of your architecture as a learning platform.
That being said, there are a few changes I would like to see done, some of them might be too time consuming though (I keep trying to do good mapping, it just takes ages though so I know it might be too much of a pain). Anyway, I'd like you to at least consider these ideas and perhaps implement a few modified versions into your map.
<b>THE WATER</b>
Okay, I really don't want this to sound too insulting, but it seriously looks like it's been freshly pumped out of a sewerage plant. That was literally my first thought when I saw it. Please, if you aren't going to make the transparent again due to entity limits, at least change the texture, it's really gross to feel like my skulk or marine are swimming/walking in sewerage. Other then that, the layout, as always, is perfect for the water. It adds that extra feel that the station has been neglected and overrun by an organism, great work <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>ARCHIVING WATER</b> <span style='color:red'> **** I've trimmed the threads quite a bit. Too many pointless images that completely clogs up the page for all but broadband users **** </span>
Archiving has transparent water up one end, and sewerage down the other. This looks quite odd, not to mention the below light wouldn?t function while partially submerged in the water:
I?m just being plain picky, but I?m not sure that I like those white things coming off all the lights :\ Just looks odd, and is working wayyy too well for having that water inside it?
Archiving, is a dead end hive. Basically, you have to be inside the hive room to siege it. The layout inside the hive overall is quite impressive, the structure of the hive itself has always been visually a work of art, and I believe most of it should stay that way. However, I believe a drastic change in direction is needed (quite literally).
I propose rotating the entire hive area clockwise (yay for paint!)
<span style='color:red'>**** 2 images of upper area removed **** </span>
The upper level is now completely useless, and accessing it is a waste of time, as there is absolutely nothing of value up there anymore. Nothing at all. My suggestion is to remove it entirely, as it serves no purpose. This would removed the need to improve the stairs and bareness of the upper and along with the below suggestion would improve marine start.
Removing the command closet has been suggested by many, as it is much too small to create an efficient base in. I agree with part of this, but I have an alternative idea. Remove the doorway and the path leading down to the maintenance corridor elevator, and extend the marine start/closet to where the elevator is. Here is my mspaint representation of what this would look like (marine start is blue, elevator is green).
This would increase the marine start to around archiving-hive length, and make it much more appealing for the marines and enhance the use of their long-range weapons.
I love the setup of cargo bay in general, but this elevator just destroys it. Aside from the fact that the poles look like they’re floating on the stretched out texture below, it just doesn’t fit in with the hera feel and also gives the feeling that it was rushed or implemented as a low-wpoly alternative to the ramp. Suggestions include either reverting back to the original or redoing the area with more details (specifically below the elevator).
I ask you, why would anyone have cut a hole into a huge cargo bay door then attached red lights? The original door-inside-a-door didn’t make altogether too much sense either. Factories these days generally have the door for humans next to a cargo door, not inside it. Perhaps add a doorway on the left hand side leading to the staircase (after removing the marine start stairs I guess) and sealing the cargo door shut. This would utilise vis blocking effectively as well as making much more sense in the grand scheme of things.
The idea itself isn’t bad, although access to holoroom is much too fast, and again, why on earth would there be a doorway leading from cargo storage directly to a main system holoroom? Consider redirecting the doorway to the below location and adding a weldable so that marines need to weld it open in order to have easier access to holoroom.
Having a path that leads from the reception area to a storage room that is sealed makes a lot more sense, as new arrivals would enquire about cargo items at the reception and be able to go straight there via the secured door (which would also stop unauthorized entry).
It’s beautiful, but I must say, <b>IT BURNS!</b> Lower the brightness of the message, please?
Other then that, it’s still great, although I agree with other people moving the resource node away from that console area could be a good idea, although removing it entirely may not be… Consider placing it where the “door” texture is behind where I took the screenshots. If the marines still relocated to reception, it wouldn’t be as easy to guard the resource node and would eliminate the stand-offs that occur there.
One more thing, what’s the point of the huge door to the left hand side if just two meters away the hallway is shrunk by half the size?
Perhaps leave it large and add different vis blockers inside data core alpha?
Oh, while I’m talking about datacore alpha, the door below disappears into the roof. It’s a good addition to have it there, it just needs a lip or something <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:red'>**** No one worth his salt on these boards cannot envision how Holoroom looks. Imagination.jpg = 0 Kb ****</span>
What can I say, it’s pretty, it’s perfect (cept for that new door). Leave but perhaps add a new vent up a wall somewhere to allow bile-bombing of the resource nodes? But make the vent low enough for hand grenades or gren launchers to get rid of gorges <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I’m sorry, but it’s lost it’s feel for me. The centrepiece is downright ugly without it’s entity addons, and combined with the water, makes me feel it should be called “Sewerage Treatment”. Nah, just kidding, but seriously, the water doesn’t look so hot anymore, and there is the issue with the centrepiece looking quite bare. Also, it’s quite impossible to siege from this location anymore:
Or in actual fact, you can’t siege the hive from anywhere but inside the hive. My recommendations for here would be to either move the hive to be siegeable from close to the resource node in processing, or add a new sieging area for it…
Other then that, the layout of the hive itself as a circular room is as good as always, great work.
<span style='color:red'>**** Please make images relevant. There is no reason to spam 3 images to say "I like this" **** </span> It’s great! I love the new changes that made the pathways solid rather then see through, and the catwalk is still as good as ever. A work of art you should be proud of <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Again, the water issue. Also, the new ladder doesn’t really make much sense being there, and I think it’d work much better if the catwalk was extended around to near where the hive is, and the ladder went up along the wall. (crappy paint example below).
Okay, if you extend the marine start, I think it would be safe to remove the extra resource node that was added. If not, it’s a good addition to the play although I still feel it’s a little too close to the marine start…
The null texture location shown in a screenshot above should be fixed as mentioned by others, although I’d like you to note that the game is also drawing a surface in the middle of no-where just outside the tunnel, so that might be good to fix too.
Centre piece (That is Maintenance - Imma) is magnificent as always, another work of art.
Beautiful. Although I will miss the star room, I understand it would need to go to reduce entity counts. I am unimpressed with the new join-marine area though. I loved the original blueness…please change it back with slight entity reductions or something.
Not exactly too obvious, but there was that “white dotted line” error on the second see-through infestation on the join alien team. Personally, I believe both those textures could safely be removed with no effect on the readyroom ambience.
Also, please remove that godforsaken aweful racket at the spawn in area, the constant droning of that sound is enough to drive anyone mad. Also, there’s no visible place for it to be coming from so it makes no sense :P
Perhaps add a ladder up the right hand wall here, to add another viable route into ventilation (currently you HAVE to go through maintenance to get into vent if you can’t fly/wall-walk, which limits game-play and strategies)
Too bright. Plain and simple. I don’t really like those white thingies anyway, as they look silly if you aren’t looking directly up at them (ie: when they’re half in the wall).
Major Siege Issue: From the below location, where the red dot is, a siege cannon can hit the res nodes in holo, archiving, datacore alpha and reception. My suggestions could fix this, although it’s your choice on what to do…
The outside of Hera is stunningly beautiful, and I’d love to see it become a part of the action. Instead of blocking off the area to the left of image 4, let the player go there, and add a vent next to the walkway, as though it’s been burrowed into the rock, leading to somewhere in reception. Doing so would allow skulks, jetpackers, fades and lerks an alternative route to marine start, make the marine start node not as easy to defend, and also include the beautiful outside area in normal gameplay.
Comments
Extra res nodes has always been a marine advantage, as it makes it harder for the aliens to hold the number of marine controlled res towers down.
Removal of the double siege spot is great and will be much appreciated (though probably cursed by a commander or two <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). The reuse of the "Pods" from the lower Processing Res Node in Marine Start and by Archiving is a very cool touch and brings a unifying theme to the whole map. The problem with the Pod in MS is that the CC area is a little too cramped for Comfort for the Onos, I think maybe removing this wall could help a bit:
<img src='http://dl.branzone.com/ns_hera0026.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
My number one gameplay concern, however, it the sheer amount of res near Marine Start now. You have the MS Res, General Cargo Storage and Maintenance Corridor all within 10 seconds of the Comm Chair. In addition Maintenance is not much further, and neither is Hera Entrance. Plus, with the new entrance from Cargo you can reach Holoroom in under 15 seconds. For these reasons I recommend two changes: Add the weldable from MS to Cargo back in and remove the Hera Entrance Res Node.
With the new path to Holo, plus with its access to Processing, Cargo is incredibly valuable territory now. Without the weldable the Marine's can get a foothold there far too quickly, and from there they have incredibly easy access to Holoroom and Processing, so it seems fair they need to "pay" for all of this with a welder (I personally think the weldable could only be accessible from Cargo only, IE no welding from MS, but I think this would be very unpopular with other players).
Beyond removing a res node from the Marine's early grasp, I suggest removing the Hera Entrance node for multiple reasons. First its no longer needed as the secondary node to the Archiving Hive, so its not crucial for Aliens starting there to have that node. Secondly Hera Entrance is an incredibly attractive relocation point for the Marines, as they can cover Holoroom with Sieges and easily defend a base there. Removing the res node would remove this incentive considerably and would help draw attention to other parts of the map. And, with the inclusion of the Maintenance Corridor Res Node the Marine's have an alternative "easy first node."
I really like the restructuring of the map, especially that of the aforementioned MS and also around Archiving. Opening the area up, no more lifts of weldable "hedge" seems like a huge asthetic and gameplay improvement.
That said I think Archiving needs some consideration as you can cover the Archiving Hive, the Node in that Hive, the Node outside the Hive, both Holoroom Nodes and the Hera Entrance Node (should it remain) with a single TF with Sieges (it requires some creative building, but it is easily do able). I don't think it'll be possible, without a complete overhaul, to remove the problem of Holo and Data Core Alpha being covered by the same TF, but I think you can solve the problem of Archiving, and its node by increasing the length of the two halls and the vent that Lead from Data Core Alpha (DCA) into the Hive area, and move the Hive's Res node much closer to the hive. I like the asthetic of the Node being in the control room in Archiving, but for gameplay reasons (mainly the siege issue) I'd move it to the back of the room. That would allow a Commander to cover either DCA and Archiving with a TF, or Cover DCA and Holoroom, but not all 3 simulataneously.
I absolutely love this map, and I have ever since 1.03 (when I started playing) and I was very excited when it got updated in 2.0, and was nearly exstatic when Flayra announced it was getting an (unexpected) update in 3.0. Great job overall and I can't wait to see this map back in regular server rotations with all the optimizations.
Maybe moving cargo res node up onto the higher level (in an alcove next to the door, perhaps) would make it a easier for the aliens to attack; although it would still be near the marine start, canny kharaa can easily hear any incoming enemies. As it is, cargo is an easy-to-secure yet important place for marines; they can easily get to holo, proc-hall and the-rt-outside-vent. And from one of those, they can launch an attack/secure mission on one of the hives quickly.
I'd also remove the cargo-holo corridor/staircase dealie. It's just too easy on marines. Either that, or consider removing one of the RTs there...
I didn't get too much playtime around archiving, as we/they never started there. As I said, though, once marines broke through, they were pretty much able to hold it indefinately. On the whole, it looks a lot nicer than before, though. The staircases means an Onos at the bottom can now get up to marines on the top level without having to wait for a lift; good move.
1) Attach one picture to each post and make a -lot- of posts.
2) Externally host the images and make them load inside this topic
3) Externally link the images so the user must click them to see.
Perhaps this isn't on topic at the moment, but it will be, and I'd like to know which way is more suitable (and won't get me in trouble <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Bahamut.
If the images are going to have to make the average user with a 1024x768 desktop have to scroll sideways to view them properly then please just use links as it's freakin annoying when text starts wrapping off the screen and you can't read the whole message very easily.
-A lot more atmosphere imo, looks alot better
-The new area outside archiving is a nice improvement, and makes it more like the other two hives (one rt in or near the hive and another right outside).
-I actually like the new rine start better then the old one (that elevator in 2.0 was an onos nightmare). The base is on the ground, yet the walkway is the still up top.
Now my dislikes:
-Enlarge the rine start room. With the limits on structurs being a certain distance from each other, im seeing commanders forced to isolate buildings on the upper level because they wont fit in the base, and that isnt good.
-Cargo is way too easy to get as marines, and lets them jump to holoroom without going through the glass hallway, which now seems fairly pointless.
-Some textures look rushed, and i dont blame you.
-Where did the secret room go? I was so sad to see it gone, i cried. (really)
Most freeware and shareware image editors can resize and touch up images really easy. I use ACDSee 6.0 PowerPack, but Hyper-Snap or PaintShop does this job fine as well.
As for showing Merkaba feedback, just fire away. I suggest you break your posts up so that they're is max 4 images per message.
Hera is still one of my favorite maps, but boy, has it changed! So much hard work, thanks Merk!
They're all the right size <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
broken into chunks.
<b>Warning: Large numbers of images attached (possibly up to 80, 600x450 or less).
Images are required to illustrate my points.
Total size of all the images is 5.35mb.
Not 56k Friendly</b>
<b>(another) Warning: a lot of the changes listed below are quite drastic and would most likely be too much to bother with, although I will state the reasons for my suggestions with each section based on my experience playing the map</b>
Bahamut?s note: I?m picky, alright? Deal with it. If part of the level makes no sense, I?ll pull it out and pick it apart. I imagine this looks quite negative, and I?m truly sorry for that, as I wrote it with a smile on my face, hoping I could help improve Hera. Don?t flame me until you?ve taken my ideas into consideration please? after that, do as you wish.
Okay, to start off with, I'd just like to say and Hera was my all time favourite map for 1.03/1.04, the feel of it, the design, the lighting, everything just made it feel great the play on, even with the marine relocations. Today, it?s still one of my favourites, just not exclusively (Origin is pretty too).
Merkaba, fabulous work. I admire your mapping skills a lot, and Hera has helped me to learn how to map better by using some of your architecture as a learning platform.
That being said, there are a few changes I would like to see done, some of them might be too time consuming though (I keep trying to do good mapping, it just takes ages though so I know it might be too much of a pain). Anyway, I'd like you to at least consider these ideas and perhaps implement a few modified versions into your map.
<b>THE WATER</b>
Okay, I really don't want this to sound too insulting, but it seriously looks like it's been freshly pumped out of a sewerage plant. That was literally my first thought when I saw it.
Please, if you aren't going to make the transparent again due to entity limits, at least change the texture, it's really gross to feel like my skulk or marine are swimming/walking in sewerage.
Other then that, the layout, as always, is perfect for the water. It adds that extra feel that the station has been neglected and overrun by an organism, great work <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>ARCHIVING WATER</b>
<span style='color:red'> **** I've trimmed the threads quite a bit. Too many pointless images that completely clogs up the page for all but broadband users **** </span>
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0003.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Archiving has transparent water up one end, and sewerage down the other. This looks quite odd, not to mention the below light wouldn?t function while partially submerged in the water:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0005.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0006.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I?m just being plain picky, but I?m not sure that I like those white things coming off all the lights :\ Just looks odd, and is working wayyy too well for having that water inside it?
As shown in the reference picture below
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0009.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Archiving, is a dead end hive. Basically, you have to be inside the hive room to siege it.
The layout inside the hive overall is quite impressive, the structure of the hive itself has always been visually a work of art, and I believe most of it should stay that way. However, I believe a drastic change in direction is needed (quite literally).
I propose rotating the entire hive area clockwise (yay for paint!)
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_heraminimap-.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
(blue = extended rooms, red = vent accessable from –just- below the second level platform)
and making it run alongside the below hallway:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0012.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
with an extra entrance at the end of the hallway that leads to:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0004.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Unfortunately, I believe this area requires a complete redesign.
The stairs basically look like they were done in a rush.
<span style='color:red'>**** We know the stairs. 1 image suffices. See below ****</span>
They need some more detail or something, it just looks too plain.
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0058.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Why is there a red thing there…
The upper level is now completely useless, and accessing it is a waste of time, as there is absolutely nothing of value up there anymore. Nothing at all. My suggestion is to remove it entirely, as it serves no purpose. This would removed the need to improve the stairs and bareness of the upper and along with the below suggestion would improve marine start.
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0053.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Removing the command closet has been suggested by many, as it is much too small to create an efficient base in. I agree with part of this, but I have an alternative idea. Remove the doorway and the path leading down to the maintenance corridor elevator, and extend the marine start/closet to where the elevator is. Here is my mspaint representation of what this would look like (marine start is blue, elevator is green).
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_heraminimap-2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This would increase the marine start to around archiving-hive length, and make it much more appealing for the marines and enhance the use of their long-range weapons.
The elevator.
<span style='color:red'>**** A bit of image baleetion **** </span>
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0041.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I love the setup of cargo bay in general, but this elevator just destroys it. Aside from the fact that the poles look like they’re floating on the stretched out texture below, it just doesn’t fit in with the hera feel and also gives the feeling that it was rushed or implemented as a low-wpoly alternative to the ramp.
Suggestions include either reverting back to the original or redoing the area with more details (specifically below the elevator).
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0055.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I ask you, why would anyone have cut a hole into a huge cargo bay door then attached red lights? The original door-inside-a-door didn’t make altogether too much sense either. Factories these days generally have the door for humans next to a cargo door, not inside it. Perhaps add a doorway on the left hand side leading to the staircase (after removing the marine start stairs I guess) and sealing the cargo door shut. This would utilise vis blocking effectively as well as making much more sense in the grand scheme of things.
The door to holoroom:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0043.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The idea itself isn’t bad, although access to holoroom is much too fast, and again, why on earth would there be a doorway leading from cargo storage directly to a main system holoroom? Consider redirecting the doorway to the below location and adding a weldable so that marines need to weld it open in order to have easier access to holoroom.
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0019.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Having a path that leads from the reception area to a storage room that is sealed makes a lot more sense, as new arrivals would enquire about cargo items at the reception and be able to go straight there via the secured door (which would also stop unauthorized entry).
<span style='color:red'>**** Snipped out a bit of Bahamut's My Holiday Trip to Hera snaps **** </span>
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0045.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
You can relax, I LOVE IT! The light texture is repeated a lot, but I still love the layout and design completely, Very awesome.
(although now I think about it, moving that resource node further from holoroom may fix some of the sieging issue below).
<span style='color:red'>**** Hi, It's me, Scissy. I'm the cousin to Clippy. **** </span>
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0065.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
It’s beautiful, but I must say, <b>IT BURNS!</b>
Lower the brightness of the message, please?
Other then that, it’s still great, although I agree with other people moving the resource node away from that console area could be a good idea, although removing it entirely may not be… Consider placing it where the “door” texture is behind where I took the screenshots. If the marines still relocated to reception, it wouldn’t be as easy to guard the resource node and would eliminate the stand-offs that occur there.
One more thing, what’s the point of the huge door to the left hand side if just two meters away the hallway is shrunk by half the size?
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0066.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Perhaps leave it large and add different vis blockers inside data core alpha?
Oh, while I’m talking about datacore alpha, the door below disappears into the roof. It’s a good addition to have it there, it just needs a lip or something <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0012.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:red'>**** No one worth his salt on these boards cannot envision how Holoroom looks. Imagination.jpg = 0 Kb ****</span>
What can I say, it’s pretty, it’s perfect (cept for that new door). Leave but perhaps add a new vent up a wall somewhere to allow bile-bombing of the resource nodes? But make the vent low enough for hand grenades or gren launchers to get rid of gorges <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0024.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0025.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I’m sorry, but it’s lost it’s feel for me. The centrepiece is downright ugly without it’s entity addons, and combined with the water, makes me feel it should be called “Sewerage Treatment”. Nah, just kidding, but seriously, the water doesn’t look so hot anymore, and there is the issue with the centrepiece looking quite bare. Also, it’s quite impossible to siege from this location anymore:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0026.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Or in actual fact, you can’t siege the hive from anywhere but inside the hive. My recommendations for here would be to either move the hive to be siegeable from close to the resource node in processing, or add a new sieging area for it…
Other then that, the layout of the hive itself as a circular room is as good as always, great work.
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0021.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:red'>**** Please make images relevant. There is no reason to spam 3 images to say "I like this" **** </span>
It’s great! I love the new changes that made the pathways solid rather then see through, and the catwalk is still as good as ever. A work of art you should be proud of <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0029.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:red'>**** Redundant image removed **** </span>
Again, the water issue. Also, the new ladder doesn’t really make much sense being there, and I think it’d work much better if the catwalk was extended around to near where the hive is, and the ladder went up along the wall. (crappy paint example below).
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0029-2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
(blue is extended path and red is the relocated ladder going up against the wall)
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0032.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:red'>**** removed more imagery of no importance **** </span>
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0036.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Okay, if you extend the marine start, I think it would be safe to remove the extra resource node that was added. If not, it’s a good addition to the play although I still feel it’s a little too close to the marine start…
The null texture location shown in a screenshot above should be fixed as mentioned by others, although I’d like you to note that the game is also drawing a surface in the middle of no-where just outside the tunnel, so that might be good to fix too.
Centre piece (That is Maintenance - Imma) is magnificent as always, another work of art.
<span style='color:red'>**** Removed some pointless images of readyroom ****</span>
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0079.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Beautiful. Although I will miss the star room, I understand it would need to go to reduce entity counts. I am unimpressed with the new join-marine area though. I loved the original blueness…please change it back with slight entity reductions or something.
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0080.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:red'>**** Removing a bit of superflous imagery of star from old ready **** room</span>
What’s that you say? I’ve found stuff in the readyroom that needs attention? Simple answer, yes.
Null texture present since 1.04:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0081.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Black/useless seethrough infestation entity:
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0082.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0084.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Pretty please let us walk on the roof? Been dying to do this for ages (dunno why, I’m just weird).
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0085.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Also, please remove that godforsaken aweful racket at the spawn in area, the constant droning of that sound is enough to drive anyone mad. Also, there’s no visible place for it to be coming from so it makes no sense :P
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0031.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Red lights, green water. Need I say more?
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0028.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Perhaps add a ladder up the right hand wall here, to add another viable route into ventilation (currently you HAVE to go through maintenance to get into vent if you can’t fly/wall-walk, which limits game-play and strategies)
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0013.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Too bright. Plain and simple. I don’t really like those white thingies anyway, as they look silly if you aren’t looking directly up at them (ie: when they’re half in the wall).
Major Siege Issue: From the below location, where the red dot is, a siege cannon can hit the res nodes in holo, archiving, datacore alpha and reception. My suggestions could fix this, although it’s your choice on what to do…
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0010-2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Also, a siege placed in the corner of processing (holo/cargo corner) it can hit upper processing, holo and cargo res…
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<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0062.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0063.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Walkway is too thin, can be blocked with one cc forcing all ground units to jump on the bar to the left and go around :\
[EDIT] Bugger, I forgot the dot... it's half way between the wall and the resource node in DCA[/EDIT]
<img src='http://www.tristan-north.com/other/Hera/ns_hera0051.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The outside of Hera is stunningly beautiful, and I’d love to see it become a part of the action. Instead of blocking off the area to the left of image 4, let the player go there, and add a vent next to the walkway, as though it’s been burrowed into the rock, leading to somewhere in reception. Doing so would allow skulks, jetpackers, fades and lerks an alternative route to marine start, make the marine start node not as easy to defend, and also include the beautiful outside area in normal gameplay.