Rethinking The Game
Pepe_Muffassa
Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12401Members
Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12401Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Puting the fun in NS</div> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Here is my idea. I read a lot more than I write, and there are several themes that I have picked up on that people would like changed for the NS Aliens.
skulks seem just about perfect - xeno could use a little boost (it is a 3 hive ability after all)
gorges - give them babblers. They were "fun" - give them babblers in place of bile bomb - same destructive power against buildings, a little attack against marines. It is fun, put it in.
lork - they should have bite, spikes, umbra, and spores. all of them are fun. Primal scream isn't fun. it makes other stuff fun, but it isn't fun. weak spores aren't fun. They don't kill.
Fade - fix blink and acid rocket - especially acid rocket. it isn't fun. make it 2 hive ability. Get rid of metabolize - it isn't fun. it is necessary, but not fun.
Onos - fix charge, it isn't fun. in fact, it is useless. make it fun.
Now then, once we have a "fun" alien team, fix the marines. They have the more straight forward weapons. balance their system. Figure out what is fun for aliens, and make marines be able to counter that. Most of the tweaking should be marine side, not the other way around. after all, armour values and cost of structures is easier to tweak in a "communist" society than in the individual res society of the aliens.
one last thing - pay attention to Savant's posts. He has an eye for balance and "fun". He is articulate, and plain 'makes sense'. I could quote a bunch here, but we have seen them before. revisit them - they are well worth the read. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
skulks seem just about perfect - xeno could use a little boost (it is a 3 hive ability after all)
gorges - give them babblers. They were "fun" - give them babblers in place of bile bomb - same destructive power against buildings, a little attack against marines. It is fun, put it in.
lork - they should have bite, spikes, umbra, and spores. all of them are fun. Primal scream isn't fun. it makes other stuff fun, but it isn't fun. weak spores aren't fun. They don't kill.
Fade - fix blink and acid rocket - especially acid rocket. it isn't fun. make it 2 hive ability. Get rid of metabolize - it isn't fun. it is necessary, but not fun.
Onos - fix charge, it isn't fun. in fact, it is useless. make it fun.
Now then, once we have a "fun" alien team, fix the marines. They have the more straight forward weapons. balance their system. Figure out what is fun for aliens, and make marines be able to counter that. Most of the tweaking should be marine side, not the other way around. after all, armour values and cost of structures is easier to tweak in a "communist" society than in the individual res society of the aliens.
one last thing - pay attention to Savant's posts. He has an eye for balance and "fun". He is articulate, and plain 'makes sense'. I could quote a bunch here, but we have seen them before. revisit them - they are well worth the read. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
I would also like to see webs be given to - the fade, instead of metabolose. The fade looks kind of spidery to me, give him like 6 web strands as a hive 2 weapon. Just think, your playing marine and you walk around a corner strainght into a web , and you know a fade is nearby chuckeling. I think that would be great and not overpowered as marines now have hand grenades (very fun, glad they added it) and grenades celar webs.
Fade should be Swipe - Blink - Web(6 strands per player) - Better Acid Rocket
Lork should be bite - spike - gas - umbra.
Skulk is about perfect, but beef up xenocide.
Onos should be Gore - Devour - Stomp(for 1.5 - 2 seconds) - Better Charge
Gorge should be Spit - heal spray - bile bomb - babblers
I know we will never get babblers back, they lagged the servers too hard, but maybe something similar?
For some people, gorge bilebombing and webing could be very fun indead. Lerks with weaker spores could be fun. Primal scream could be fun. Think of that...
Pretty much, you post is based on opinions for the most part, not numbers, or facts. And while I respect that, I can't agree that it would really get us anywhere.
Um, yeah we are talking about ways NS could be more fun, just where am I going to get numbers and facts? Everyone knows that fun is subjective.
Perhaps we would have a series of questionairs with questions like "Do you want Babblers back in the game Y/N" That would be one way to get "numbers" but where would we get "facts"?
I hear more people saying how much they miss spikes and a stronger spore than how much they love primal scream. Make those changes, and yes, there will be some "I miss primal scream!" but not as much as there is now with the spores/spikes.
The same for acid rocket.
and when was the last time you heard someone say "ohh, I love charge, it is so effective on everything!!" when that happens, post the link - I'll go look.
Yes it is true, I have posted that I would like to see xenocide re-examined. However, my reason for this is that xenocide has seen so much nerfing that it is no longer a useful weapon. One thing that I have noticed with NS is that weapons only rarely are made stronger for aliens, usually they are made weaker. With that in mind I don't see xenocide getting better damage vs marines or blast damage back. If it DID then I would be all for keeping xenocide. I just don't see it happening though.
I'll agree that babblers were loads of fun, but they are also pretty pointless and had horrible accuracy. How many times have you used babblers only to have them sink through the floor or go nowhere? The problem is that babblers were a 'filler' weapon. Charlie was short a weapon and tossed this in as a placeholder of sorts. It was never really meant to be permanent.
I agree with those that would like to see the lerk get back to the bite, spikes, umbra, and spores lineup. That was a great combo and with deadly spores made the lerk dangerous. Lately the lerk is just a nuisance flapping around.
However, I really think people need to imagine primal scream on the skulk. Think about it....
-Hiding in a hallway and letting a scream go... then the marines hear screaming coming from all around them before the attack!
-With the skulk using focus, if they also had primal scream they can use that before using bite and they would have a faster more deadly bite. Think of what the skulk bite would be like if it was regular speed, but with focus damage levels! -
-Add this to a sequence, primal scream, leap in, kill a number of marines and make good your escape. Then do it AGAIN! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
On the other hand xenocide is hit and miss at best. At least with bite you will HIT something. With xenocide you may die before you go off, or you may miss the target. In that case you just wasted your time and put yourself at the back of the spawn queue for nothing. Most xenodies I see nowadays never kill anything.
With primal scream and bite you could take out marines AND still be on the front lines. That alone is worth more than xenocide ever could be. I'd take primal scream over xenocide on a skulk any day. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Savant
I am actually starting to come round on what your saying savant, concerning primal scream. The only reason I disagree is because of the babbler phenomenon. People will so miss divine wind that they will still be talking about it a year after it has been removed. I think the 'hit and miss' flavor makes it a truely awesome skill in the hands of great xenociders, but frustrating for newbs to mimmick. there is nothing worse than following up a 5 kill xeno with a dud of your own, yet you know that with practice a 5 killer could be yours someday.
The same thing with babblers - they were a filler skill, often sank/disappeared, attacked the maker more than the marines, but they were so much fun!!. I remember several games organizing 'babbler rushes' and having the whole team turn gorge and storm the marine start with nothing but our computer controlled mini skulks - and this was the "filller" skill. Those were the days when I would whoop and hollar 'BABBLERS!!!!!' and be excited at the possibility of getting babbler kills left and right.
Now immagine being in the rafters of power silo and dropping babblers on the helpless relocated marines - you get the picture. That was 'FUN!!!'
enough rant <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"The so called "primal scream" is a bellowing roar that triggers a battle fervor in any nearby alien."
I agree that Xenocide blast damage should return at some level.
I agree that babblers, even though they were fun and unique, do not have a place in NS anymore.
I've been playing around with the idea of bringing the acid rocket to hive 2 for a while but I'm not sure metabolize is a good hive 3 weapon or that it could be made that way. I'm also not sure that the overall effect alien gameplay would be positive. It may be necessary to keep Fades in the line of fire rather than around a corner spamming rockets.
1.04 was fun at the time, if you go back to playing it now however, it is not. Why? Balance.
The current lineup of alien weapons -are- fun, you obviously don't use them that way though.
The skulk is the lower lifeform, that takes all of 8 seconds to be created, it's not supposed to be a tank. It can bite, shoot out a parasite, leap, and blow itself up with ease, because it was made in a rush by a hive trying to get more soliders onto the battlefield, primal scream is way too advanced for it, and having skulks screaming everywhere would be quite unbalanced. Xenocide blasts marines out of the path for other aliens to finish off, it's good for a basic creature.
The lerk: It's a support unit. Charlie and most likely the other developers changed it's role to support, like the gorge. It's not supposed to be a tank that annihilates everything in it's path, it's supposed to help other aliens do so. They gave back bite, and removed spikes. This, combined with the new physics system, makes the lerk fun. Swooping in to kill is what a bird does and it's loads of fun once you've mastered it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The Fade: It's a hit and run unit. Alright, the acid rocket does pretty much suck, but what would you rather when you're a fade? Less rockets with more power, or more rockets with less? All the fade's abilities work in with each other to create what we call the fade. You see a marine, so you shoot a couple of acid rockets to damage it, blink over, swipe it a couple of times to kill, blink back, and use metabolise to replenish health/energy. Acid rocket's role isn't to kill, it's to weaken.
The onos: It's fine, well, perhaps it dies rather fast, but that's where teamwork comes into it with the lerk umbra-ing it. Claws effectively kill anything, devour removes HA with ease, stomp shocks the marines so they don't move for a minute while you attack/retreat, and charge gives you that speed boost when you're using adrenaline, as well as doing bonus damage.
I think the idea of the aliens, as with the marines, is to mostly use weapon 1 to kill, and to use weapons 2, 3 and 4 to support you. If you don't find that fun, then perhaps you aren't playing correctly, or you're just longing for 1.04 to return. Go and play it for 30 minutes, seriously, you'll come back drooling for 3.0.
I'm not here to flame you or your ideas, I'm here merely to point out that all the changes to the aliens still make them fun, just you guys don't seem to be playing them the "fun" way. Aliens will most clan-wars anyway at the moment, I'll admit this is mainly due to lack of teamwork on the marine side, but also the aliens are powerful enough already, I think some of the changes you listed (hive three umbra/spores fade with web) would just "nurf" some of the aliens some more.
Ah well, go ahead and flame me, that's how I feel about NS at the moment. Natural Selection is sticking to it's storyline, layed out in the original manual. There's a logical explaination for everything, I don't see how creating countless skulks in under five seconds from a gorge is realistic or explainable...
Bahamut's three cents.
Giving it back spikes in place of primal scream isn't a problem. It'd be like a jet swooping in firing only to pull off for another pass... or it could switch to bite and finish the job. In any case, there's a strong desire to have a more functional alien ranged attack. (spit is weak, AR is weak and hive 3) Spike can do that.
Consider also that charge is useless and not very fun right now and no one has any solid ideas on how to fix it. Since lerk wouldn't have primal scream and it used to be for the Onos, we could replace the charge with primal scream.
Makes sense, doesn't it?
I agree that lerks need their spikes back as aliens dont have any ranged weapons till 3rd hive and was good fun hiding in vents shooting at HA's or LA's annoying the crap out of them spores does stuff all against HA's so is pretty much useless miday thru the game.
Acid rockets need to be 2nd hive again now they have gimped em as they are absolutely useless 3rd hive weapon I generaly use swipe as rockets dont even tickle tech'd rines. Lets admit it only reason ppl whinged about acid rocket was because the aliens could do what the rines could in shoot from the other end of a long halllway, now they get to suicide rush.
Xeno needs to be slightly beefed up not a lot maybe 5-10%. Babblers where cool but useless (kept falling into the floor).
All in all I feel that the updates have been good (like the changes to the chambers)
(bloody sig wont let me use clan tag......keeps changing it to WTH! URL link there for wont work... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->....worse than that I think they have some editing script cant even type it in my post we are W.T.F (no dots) not WTH....)
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[WTH]hakenspit
Weapons Tactics Force
Web Site <a href='http://clan-WTH.com/' target='_blank'>http://clan-WTH.com/</a>
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Why give it spikes? Spikes were only useful for the old flight system that didn't get you anywhere fast, whereas now with the swooping and pure speed with celerity, spikes are no longer nessesary for the lerk to do damage.
Spores, Umbra and Primal scream are for support.
Spores damage marines slowly, so they start panicing while trying to escape from it, and while they're running out another alien can attack them easily.
Umbra blocks damage to other alien lifeforms as well as the lerk itself - Support.
Primal scream increases the speed and attack rate of nearby aliens as well as the lerk itself making it a support ability.
Bite is also more of a support role, the lerk flies in, bites a marine to weaken them, and the other aliens have an easier time getting the kill.
The lerk's role hasn't changed, the only thing that has is the method in which the support is given.
Oh, and charge is fine for a speed boost if you don't wish to use celerity, along with the increased speed you do extra damage. The onos is more of a siege unit, it's not supposed to support aliens around it with primal scream anymore.
----> In reply to Haken, read my post and you'll discover why it's "useless" as a ranged marine annihilator. Aliens are melee, marines are range.
The lerk has enough hp/armour to now bite a resource node then move away and heal at the same rate as spikes killed it (or near enough). Yes, marines and aliens have both melee and ranged weapons, although the shotgun isn't specifically melee. Like all marine weapons, it has a higher accuracy rate the closer you are to the aliens, it still does some damage at range.
Long passageways are designed for vent ambushes, attacks from behind or just plain old waiting for the marines to walk out. Long passages are never in the -extremely- important areas without some place for you to duck out of the line of fire... and if they are, PM the mapper and ask him/her to change it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why give it spikes? Spikes were only useful for the old flight system that didn't get you anywhere fast, whereas now with the swooping and pure speed with celerity, spikes are no longer nessesary for the lerk to do damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Spikes are good counters to shotguns. I agree that the flight model doesn't work well with spikes as much as the old one did, but neither does both it's support weapons and spores. That doesn't mean spikes are worthless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Spores, Umbra and Primal scream are for support.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Spore? Support? I think you have a mixed up view of support if we are to make a distinction. If weakening the opponents is a support role acid rockets are definetly a support weapon. I could even go so far as saying a skulk bite is support.... because it weakens the marine for other players to kill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Umbra blocks damage to other alien lifeforms as well as the lerk itself - Support.
Primal scream increases the speed and attack rate of nearby aliens as well as the lerk itself making it a support ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, these are support weapons on a lifeform that isn't built for support as much anymore. It's a more versatile creature now. In 2.0 it was a support class and bite was taken away to fascilitate this concept.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bite is also more of a support role, the lerk flies in, bites a marine to weaken them, and the other aliens have an easier time getting the kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->By that logic so is any weapon an alien uses that doesn't kill the marine.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The lerk's role hasn't changed, the only thing that has is the method in which the support is given.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->YES IT HAS. It can now take down structures, attack marines head-on, and be a formideable foe ALL BY ITSELF. It doesn't need anybody else much more than a fade does.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, and charge is fine for a speed boost if you don't wish to use celerity, along with the increased speed you do extra damage. The onos is more of a siege unit, it's not supposed to support aliens around it with primal scream anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->What's the best use for primal scream? Siege. Now what did you say the Onos was again?
I said either in here or in IRC, can't remember which, that if you think about it, slot 2, 3 and 4 weapons on an alien are all designed to support either that alien themselves or the entire team. Slot one is the main attacking force.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When players first started playing 2.0 and heard that scream, they momentarily believed it was an Onos before they reminded themselves of the change. Even I did this. Trust me. Primal scream is good for Onos gameplay-wise AND aesthetics.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
duh, who wouldn't? You'd just been playing with an Onos primal screaming for the last four months and suddenly a lerk starts doing it. Naturally you aren't going to be used to it. Changing it back would be a mistake, it's fine on the lerk. A lerk is more manouverable (can't spell) and therefore can fly in, primal and umbra, fly out to safety, then repeat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Spikes are good counters to shotguns. I agree that the flight model doesn't work well with spikes as much as the old one did, but neither does both it's support weapons and spores. That doesn't mean spikes are worthless.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, so spikes are a good counter to shotguns whereas swooping in, biting then flying away or sporing isn't?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Spore? Support? I think you have a mixed up view of support if we are to make a distinction. If weakening the opponents is a support role acid rockets are definetly a support weapon. I could even go so far as saying a skulk bite is support.... because it weakens the marine for other players to kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, it's weak. It's there to slowly damage the marines, and make them panic so the attack can be done more easily. It also weakens them for the other aliens. Same happens with acid rocket, although it's main purpose would be weakening a marine for the fade to kill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes, these are support weapons on a lifeform that isn't built for support as much anymore. It's a more versatile creature now. In 2.0 it was a support class and bite was taken away to fascilitate this concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err, the lerk is completely built for support. It's armour and health levels are way too low to be a frontal assault unit. It's main game is to weaken using spores then clean up the marine if it encounters it by itself, but generally speaking the lerk is there for support. The reason bite was added again (I believe) is it would be practically impossible to aim spikes properly with the new flight model. The moment you look down to attack a marine you're instantly going into an insane dive straight for them and they blast you out of your misery. Bite is more appropriate for this lerk model.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->By that logic so is any weapon an alien uses that doesn't kill the marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're quite right, they all support one another by weakening the marines for either a return attack by themselves or another alien. Attacking a marine supports other aliens, because it removes their threat. I said it's more of a support role, it didn't say it was <i>entirely</i> one. There is a difference.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->YES IT HAS. It can now take down structures, attack marines head-on, and be a formideable foe ALL BY ITSELF. It doesn't need anybody else much more than a fade does. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...how is that any different to the 2.0 lerk? the 2.0 lerk could spike down structures by itself, it could attack marines head-on with umbra and spores + spikes the same as the 3.0 lerk could, with the same low chance of survival, although the 3.0 lerk has actually got an increased chance of survival with it's bite I guess. It never did need anybody else to take out a marine, heavy or light, but it can support the other aliens so they can kill much more effectively. 2.0 lerk was a formidable foe by itself, if you used it correctly from a distance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's the best use for primal scream? Siege. Now what did you say the Onos was again? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
again, primal scream is used mainly to help other aliens kill marines, not the alien that screams itself. An onos having to constantly switch from weapon 1 to weapon 4 to scream then back to weapon 1 to attack would get owned, because by the time he let off a couple of hits the scream would've worn off and he'd have to repeat the process. It's much better off in the hands of a support unit to aid the others, rather then making the attacking units do it.
It is STILL a support unit, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I like the alien's weapons fine as they are. They all work together well. 3 levels of attackers (Skulk, fade, onos), and 2 support (gorge, lerk). The aliens are balanced enough, can't you see that?
So true, I totally agree with everything you say there. If you make a alien ability more powerful, balance it by adjusting armour/ammo etc because these effect marines globally.
I'd like to ask everyone in here to ignore balance considerations for a second - the obvious aim here is to discuss ways of making aspects of the game more enjoyable, which shouldn't be made a secondary objective to obtaining a good balance.
Um, primal scream + bite away at that HA = fast death to you, and severe pain to the HA.
Primal scream on a skulk would completely rock. Divine wind is a boring ability with a huge price. Time. I'm not sure what amount of armor rines need, but at one point, you can xeno directly next to a marine, and he just stands there and watches you explode.
It's just kind of stupid. I almost never use xeno, and when I do, get an average of 1 kill/Xeno. The 5 kill thing is slightly skill, but mostly luck. It's more luck because you have to hope the marines don't have too much armor, hope they can't shoot you in time, and hope that they don't all run in different directions... or something.
The only skill aspect of it is the timing.
Primal scream would send my skulk biting into overtime, and would be a perfect hive 3 ability, in my opinion.
Primal scream on the lerk is fun too, except in order to use it for yourself (i know i know, it's supposed to be support) You have to land next to them and just bite away.
Because of this, it doesn't fit the lerk.
Lerks- (Air Support)
Spores are ok for weakening marines so you can go in for the kill, but they're just not fun. I think that Spikes should come back in the place of spores. I know they're still in the game, and i think someone should make a plugin for servers to test a bite-spike lerk out. (using sv_cheats you can get spikes in your second weapon slot... and i think a plugin could do that, and take away your spores. not so sure though)
Umbra is also a support thing, and while it does work, you don't notice it doing anything... so I suggest that some special effects are added, for example, make sparks fly whenever a bullet hits the cloud. Also, modify it so that rather then umbra protecting whoever's in it, make it so umbra takes away 2/3 of the bullets that go through it, not that are going to hit a guy.
These two things would make umbra so much more fun, and so much more useful to the lerk. Lerks do not stay in one place, so umbra isn't too useful to them.
It would also be a better support role to be able to just fire it betweent he rines and your guys, and have the cloud just take some of the bullets.
While thinking about primal scream for the skulk, i was just thinking abuot xeno for a lerk... How sweet would that be? It moves fast enough so it totally would be skill, and due to the fact that it would be an attack for the cost of 30 res... I think it should be severely beefed up, longer range, stronger hit.
Only problem is the thorn in our side called combat. If you were to do this, I think lerk would be super fun, but it would be too overpowered in combat, and in classic, the long gestate times would kill you.
Imagine like 4 lerks all flying in, hearing a scream, and then they all explode above you, killing everytihng.
Maybe a new hive 3 attack, such as say... acid rain? Fly around firing this, acid falls down (we already have the effect, shoot an acid rocket at the ceiling for the type of thing i'm thinking of). Once again, beef it up (as in a lot stronger then acid rocket), for no hive 3 ability should be weak. This power would of course cause marines to say, "Ah crap."
And maybe some jokes relating to cars and birds. *shrugs*
Gorge- (Builder)
Gorge is mad fun, trying to lead your shots and everything... But web is unreliable alot of the time (well, at least some maps, they don't have very good flat ground) annd so hard to use if a rine ambushes you.
I think that bilebomb should be beefed up to how it was on the fade in 1.04 (i played the other day, and the effect of shooting a bile bomb are just awesome), moved to slot4, and web should become slot3, with no changes.
Other then those, I think the gorge is perfect.
Fade- (Medium Assault, Should be Ninja or Stealth Ops or something <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Swipe has too small of a cone, and yet is about the same as a skulk bite. It's to hard to hti with it, and it's not any good for hit and run, which it seems like this class should be.
Blink is boring, and weak. I think that the programers should make it so that rather then how it is, make it so it shoots out an invisible line, and warps you to wherever the line hits something. (and if you can't go there, make it so that it just makes you fade out and back in real quick, like an accelerated cloak/decloak.)
I don't think this would be too hard to program, just make a line, and run a box the size of a fade (invisible again, this is just for seeing if the player can teleport)
and move it down the line until it touches a wall... and then just have the wall push it off the line a bit, and try to get as close to the intersect point as possible.
This would also need a distance cap, and before teleporting the player, it should check once more, jsut to make sure the player won't be stuck.
The effect when you do this is you should fade out real fast, and then fade in in another position (or the same one possibly).
Blink is real strong in the hands of the heavily experienced, but I just don't tihnk it's that fun.
Metabolize is also boring, and while neccessary, it should be removed and something else should be put in...
I was just thinking, what if we had a power that would allow you to grab a rine... Imagine blinking in (so you just fade in next to them) grabing someone, and blinking out (just would look like the rine you've grabbed and you cloak to the marines)
And then you're alone with that guy, lol...
Acid Rockets are kind of fun, flayra did make them more fun with the weakening and half energy, but if he's going to do that, he also needs to make them fire at twice the rate.
2x rate, .5x damage, .5x energy = the same as before, but more fun.
Onos- (Tank.)
Gore, fun.
Devour, fun. (not for rines, but that's ok, lol, it makes them fear it more)
Stomp, too weak. should be brought to 1.5, a compromise between 2.0's 2 seconds, and 3.0's 1 second.
I personally like charge... though it is really a very specialized thing, and not too good at base breaking... The main problem with it is that it just keeps going, even when you stop moving. What I think should happen is: You use it while you're moving, and you start running. The second you let off the forward key, you stop charging, and energy stops being drained.
This way you would be able to use charge to cross the gap and get into their base with ease, and still ahve enough energy to actually do something other then jsut sit there being a wall for every bullet in the room.
Charge -> Devour is fun though. Charge should not be taken away, just changed.
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While gorge and lerk should be support, support isn't too fun, and I think the lerk changes would make it still have the same amount of a support role, and same with the gorge... In fact, an earlier web would actually make gorge have MORE of a support role, because skulks would stay around them eating any webbed rines.
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My 10 cents.