ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2004
Ive noticed the reason aliens do much worse in pubs is that once rines put up elec, their rts neva go down. No alien will ever touch it. They are scared. Me, once i get enough res, i either drop an oc next to one, or go fade/onos and kill them off one by one while the rest of my team has the rines distracted. When rines are pushing into one of our hives, meaning we have another, i go around and take out all rt. So when rines finish one hive, they dont have the res for another, and have to recap, spreading them out. Which opens up a lot of opportunities.
As long as aliens have a hive, keeping rine rts down are 2nd important thing. How you do that is what you gotta think about, waste the least amount of res. Even if you have to keep running back and forth to the hive to get more hp as skulk, do what u need to get the rt down. Cause more than likely, the rines wont notice its down for a while, they are busy with a push, and they have already gone through the area u are in. I love it when rines get pg, they neva go throughout the map, they just expect it all to be there.
lol the past 10 matches Ive played have been so weak Ive never really seen the need for our team to use umbra once :/ edit: got 3 pain in the arse guaranteed loss matches coming up next week though
I love all the assumptions being placed here about how you have a sure fire way to beat an onos. Sure maybe sometimes it works but there is no 100% full proof way to take it down and it'll vary from player to player. Some Onos people will just get absolutely shredded straight away, others (stares at buggy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) will change the entire match despite full tech againist them.
It's not down to the experience of the marine how fast the onos goes down, it's down to the experience of the Onos. lvl3 hmgs with HA and all that jazz won't help you very much againist a comeptant player (stares at buggy more) and despite what you think and your misconceptions about how amazing you are at NS you will probably struggle to take down the onos without a little bit of luck on your side too.
Also another thing to take into account is the map. Some maps are onos friendly, take veil. Lots of corners you can run behind and be out of LOS, no lifts, no ladders, nothing that can hinder your movement. Compare that with say origin where if your an Onos it's quite hard to get around as vents and ladders are a core part of the maps navigation and you can quite easily get shredded on them before you realise what is going on.
I think as it stands things are well balanced. If you find yourself in a situation with an unstoppable onos someoe could argue it's your own fault for letting the player accumalte 75 res and for letting him get in a position to get his upgrades (guessing you must have at least two, prob regen and celerity with most onos).
The great thing about NS is there is no hard and fast and the outcome will vary all the time so whilst you may get devoured before you get a shot off another time you may dodge his stomp, wack a clip of hmg into him and knife him to death. So keep rocking you crazy cats! Or something!
<!--QuoteBegin-Maveric+Feb 19 2004, 08:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Feb 19 2004, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If onos and fades can drop like flies in Combat, they can drop like flies in Normal play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In co mode, morons get owned and respawn with all their upgrades and armor and heavy weapons. Many onos and fades die as a result of these permanent upgrades. Additionally, the MS is able to hold out longer in co mode as a result.
In ns mode, however, fades can appear quickly and in greater strength than most pub teams can deal with. LMGs are almost completely useless. Shotties are barely adequate... Everyone here is arguing that heavy weapons level the field, but the marines don't have heavy weapons 4 minutes into the round. Fade to rape... get it?
As PseudoKnight has already mentioned, the question of Onos/Fade being overpowered is situational. A Onos running down a long corridor towards even just 2 vanilla LA/LMG marines will take a lot of damage before the Onos can kill the 2 marines, whereas if the marines bump into the Onos at close range...bye bye marines.
Funny trick a vanilla marine can use when attacked by an Onos using gore is to try jump when the gore hits you, quiet often you get throw miles away and the Onos must re-orientate on you and close the distance again...while you pile rounds into his hide. Additionally grenades are usefull against a retreating Onos, throw one on its back and open up a hamburger stall <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I find the NS 3 Onos more easier to tackle than the NS 2 version, mostly because of the hitbox issue - least I 'feel' like I am doing some damage to it.
Basically Dan its a case of using the situation to your advantage, cover long hallways and move quickly through corners or cramped spaces - use the range advantage of the marines more effectively.
Wow. Just wow. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For the longest while, I wouldn't touch fades.. in NS OR combat. Just on sheer principal. I've always had lastinv bound to q, had some fun as a lerk gliding about. But I never thought that a fade in my hands could be anything but a disaster.
Boy was I wrong! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Celerity > Regen > 3 levels > Instafade > Adrenaline/focus > Focus/Adrenaline > Cara > SoF = pizownage. NS:C comes alive again, stalking the hallways, blinking around, honing my skills on nubcaeks.. Some maps are horrible for it (Core, angst, maybe Ether), others are a dream (Faceoff, kestrel, rebirth).. But I have fun again.
I used to whine and cry and moan about focus nubcaek fades.. but seeing from behind their eyes.. swiping from behind their claws.. They're pretty damned difficult. Hell, it drains me just playing. Every so often, I have to retreat to a safe spot and just breathe for a second, since half the time I'm holding my breath whenever I blink, heh.
Like that one dude said, you should play both sides before making a serious judgement on anything. One nubcaek coming to the boards after being spawncamped by two fades (Or fasta pizowned by two fades while the rest of the team defends the hive.. Yes, two fades can occupy most of a marine force, and annoy the crap out of 'em.) or whatever.. yeah. You're going to be mad. Get over it. Go and play those focus fades before you whine and b!tch on these forums. It's safe to say that we're all pretty damned tired of hearing it.
And yeah, I still get owned hardcore from time to time. Usually it's when I'm pushing myself to whack that GLer, or if a nubcaek ducks at the last billisecond, completely negating my attack, or whatever. But I'll tell ya. Nothin' wastes ammo like a fade flying around your base. And just when you stop firing, focusing on what's coming next.. BAM! That's when I'll getcha! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Onos? Fine, I think. Stomp is still directional and not radial, but apart from that I'm fairly content with the amount of firepower to kill an Onos.
Fade is a bit of a bugbear though. The 'sparks' thing (I'm not 100% convinced it even exists and I'm just not sucking, but it does appear to happen) makes a Celerity Fade near unkillable on the hit & run, especially with Focus.
My ongoing suggestion is still to have Blink move slower than it does currently, but cloak you for the duration, just so the Fade actually <i>fades</i> rather than just flying about, which seems a little silly.
anyway, its all even, just learn to aim together, they go down in secs
its when you take them one on one you lose, and ns isnt about that(less you have a jp, in that case with right sence , you should be able to kill him given right upgrades and what not <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 19 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 19 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Necro-+Feb 19 2004, 06:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necro- @ Feb 19 2004, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Dead_Dan+Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dead_Dan @ Feb 20 2004, 02:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kiwi+Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kiwi @ Feb 19 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i agree, if anything the onos is too weak. once that armor is gone the onos is very weak. onos cost 75 res... 3-4 marines with hmgs can easily kill an onos. thats only 45-60 res spent on the marines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why not exactly? Are you saying that if only 1 alien goes gorge and builds stuff while the rest just res **** and go onos at 75 res they should be unstoppable? If you think 4 LMG marines should be slaughtered then what are they supposed to do when they are facing two, three, four, or five onos, who if they res ****, they can onos very fast? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol if everyone on aliens res **** the game will be over before they get the onos.
Fade in NS:C is a deadly opponent (played by a decent skilled player) but in Classic it lacks Celerity or Adrenalin (because you cannot have both). You have the choice to go blink-wait-slash-wait-blink or slowblink-slash-slowblink. The onos in NS:C is pretty much the same as in Classic it can just take more upgrades from the same chamber.
The outcome of an encounter with an onos depends solely on the marines. With decent aim, weapon upgrades and shotguns/HMGs an onos dies in less than 2 seconds against 3 marines. Most of the time the onos won't even come close to them. On higher ground a single marine can easily take down an onos all alone.
For the Classic fade goes the same. With Celerity it will be able to do fast blink attacks but as soon as you blinked in you won't be able to swipe them (no energy left). Adrenalin makes the fade a slow target. Decent marines (with shotgun) will kill both types of fade in a matter of seconds.
i find myself more useful as a fade then a onos(unless i am eating you)
maybe i am just use to hit and run tatics, but i am ><
so, they are all even, like the other guy said, you can balance the game, you can't balance the players <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The outcome of an encounter with an onos depends solely on the marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That I would disagree with. The rest seems pretty accurate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fade in NS:C is a deadly opponent (played by a decent skilled player) but in Classic it lacks Celerity or Adrenalin (because you cannot have both). You have the choice to go blink-wait-slash-wait-blink or slowblink-slash-slowblink. The onos in NS:C is pretty much the same as in Classic it can just take more upgrades from the same chamber.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That would be solved by allowing multiple upgrades per chamber. (I can talk balance if you want to) Can you imagine how much easier it would be to balance the game across the two modes with that change? Not to mention that it would allow Kharaa a faster end-game when the marines are bunkered in and the aliens can't spend their res fast enough.
/me remembers the good old days when a carapace onos couldn't die. Le sigh.
I find this topic rather amusing. I'm sure the development team doesn't know anything about balancing the game. It's not like they've been doing it for a while or anything. And it's not like they have access to more statistics concerning this matter than any one player could ever have. Wait...
You think fade and onos are overpowered? There's a door marked "Join Aliens" in every ready room.
Please explain to me how a onos charging into a marine base and salughtering everyone, or using it to evade death while being chased it considered useless?? It more of a problem with people not knowing how or when to use it then the skill itself.
Useless is an exaggeration, for sure. You can use everything in NS. Charge just isn't effective enough to be called a hive-3 ability. The two uses you mentioned are often not as effective because 1) a myriad of obstacles are often dampening the effect and 2) you often don't have enough energy to charge out of the room after attacking. But yes, I do use it on rare occassions, and on those occassions it becomes handy. But that's just not often enough. I'd like charge to be changed or dropped, and I tell you what... not many people are going to miss it.
I find it interesting that a large part of this argument is predicated on 'if one gorge goes around capping RTs and everyone else res-**** and goes fade/onos'...
This is SUCH a crock. Unless you're starting with a bunch of top-tier skulkers who'll be earning huge amounts of RFK, then they'll never survive to make Onos - any half-decent marine team would have the entire tech tree by this time. A single gorge can't just pull resources out of his butt to pay for res nodes, upgrade towers, and hives.
Sure, sometimes you'll get ONE or TWO guys who res-**** and go Onos and Fade, but this is a HUGE risk to their team. An early Onos is putting enough res for a hive and its basic defenses on the line; a couple marines with mid-range upgrades have a good chance of flushing those 75 resources down the poop-chute.
Yes, but only a little <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Have you noticed that no one anymore uses acid or (has never used) charge? Have you noticed that the new redemption is like commanders meds; always 1 second too late? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Onos can barely stand a second of concentrated lv3 lmg fire, not even speaking of HMG's. Fade even less. So sometimes I have to wonder if it's even worth evolving from skulk to something else when you are against a group of heavies or jets.
In most cases, 2 jets make escaping for onos impossible, whereas 2 HMG's make short work of him. The best thing is that the onos cannot even reach the jets if he has to assault some place -like his role was supposed to be <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"Assault class." My arse. "Block" is more like it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mr.Ben+Feb 20 2004, 04:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Feb 20 2004, 04:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I love all the assumptions being placed here about how you have a sure fire way to beat an onos. Sure maybe sometimes it works but there is no 100% full proof way to take it down and it'll vary from player to player. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, I dunno... I find shooting it until it dies to be a universally effective tactic. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> another good methiod is aiming at him....
Fades and Onos were given HP/AP boosts to compensate for being bigger. An early 4-6 minute fade can hold the line for the kharaa, and then push the marines back. So just because the fade can push the marines back, you think it should be killable by vanilla marines easily, or that heavy weapons should be available off the bat?
Remember, if that early fade dies, marines can dominate the map and skulks. And the fade can be easily countered, if not killed, at least deterred from wiping out your teams.
Usually, marines are 1/1 when a fade appears. It takes 55 LMG rounds to kill the fade, or 4 shotgun blasts. If you have 4 marines with 2 shotguns, and that you might engaging in tight corridors, the chances of the fade dying is very easy. Even at 3 hives, it just takes 1 more shottie blast to down the fade.
A hive1 onos takes 173 L1 LMG rounds to take out. 159 L2 LMG, and 147 L3 LMG. Clearly, 4 marines with 200 LMG rounds and 40 pistol rounds, if not surprised with stomp or a corner, should easily be able to make an onos flee. Throw in 1-2 shotguns or a HMG, and an onos dies very easily.
Marines start having problems with onos when there are more than 2. 1 onos with some light support can break a defence or attack on its own. A teched marine team can easily handle 1 onos, or 2 if they are good.
But any more onos, and they lack the firepower to take out the onos, and they cannot defend or attack all their positions. The appearance of 1 hive2 onos is not the end of the game, in fact, it's just heating up if you played your cards right. But if the aliens have 3++ onos, then you have a problem.
Fade costs 50 res to evolve, and is weak now to LMG fire, and gets tore through by HMG's.
Send your marines out in groups of 3-4 when u pub , and give 1-2 a shotty. If the marines know what they are doing and can aim, and can block the fade from his retreat (easyer said than done, but can be done easly with enough practice) the fade goes down. Very rarely does a fade in a pub do anything but rambo kill marines, and can be taken down with team work.
Case: Onos
Onos costs 75 to evolve, and w/ new hitboxes is easyer to hit. Just mow him with your weapons and chase him down.
If they get an onos, just consentrate fire on it, and chase it down when its hurt. When HMGS come out they are the bane to all onos.
Comments
As long as aliens have a hive, keeping rine rts down are 2nd important thing. How you do that is what you gotta think about, waste the least amount of res. Even if you have to keep running back and forth to the hive to get more hp as skulk, do what u need to get the rt down. Cause more than likely, the rines wont notice its down for a while, they are busy with a push, and they have already gone through the area u are in. I love it when rines get pg, they neva go throughout the map, they just expect it all to be there.
edit: got 3 pain in the arse guaranteed loss matches coming up next week though
It's not down to the experience of the marine how fast the onos goes down, it's down to the experience of the Onos. lvl3 hmgs with HA and all that jazz won't help you very much againist a comeptant player (stares at buggy more) and despite what you think and your misconceptions about how amazing you are at NS you will probably struggle to take down the onos without a little bit of luck on your side too.
Also another thing to take into account is the map. Some maps are onos friendly, take veil. Lots of corners you can run behind and be out of LOS, no lifts, no ladders, nothing that can hinder your movement. Compare that with say origin where if your an Onos it's quite hard to get around as vents and ladders are a core part of the maps navigation and you can quite easily get shredded on them before you realise what is going on.
I think as it stands things are well balanced. If you find yourself in a situation with an unstoppable onos someoe could argue it's your own fault for letting the player accumalte 75 res and for letting him get in a position to get his upgrades (guessing you must have at least two, prob regen and celerity with most onos).
The great thing about NS is there is no hard and fast and the outcome will vary all the time so whilst you may get devoured before you get a shot off another time you may dodge his stomp, wack a clip of hmg into him and knife him to death. So keep rocking you crazy cats! Or something!
In co mode, morons get owned and respawn with all their upgrades and armor and heavy weapons. Many onos and fades die as a result of these permanent upgrades. Additionally, the MS is able to hold out longer in co mode as a result.
In ns mode, however, fades can appear quickly and in greater strength than most pub teams can deal with. LMGs are almost completely useless. Shotties are barely adequate... Everyone here is arguing that heavy weapons level the field, but the marines don't have heavy weapons 4 minutes into the round. Fade to rape... get it?
Funny trick a vanilla marine can use when attacked by an Onos using gore is to try jump when the gore hits you, quiet often you get throw miles away and the Onos must re-orientate on you and close the distance again...while you pile rounds into his hide. Additionally grenades are usefull against a retreating Onos, throw one on its back and open up a hamburger stall <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I find the NS 3 Onos more easier to tackle than the NS 2 version, mostly because of the hitbox issue - least I 'feel' like I am doing some damage to it.
Basically Dan its a case of using the situation to your advantage, cover long hallways and move quickly through corners or cramped spaces - use the range advantage of the marines more effectively.
For the longest while, I wouldn't touch fades.. in NS OR combat. Just on sheer principal. I've always had lastinv bound to q, had some fun as a lerk gliding about. But I never thought that a fade in my hands could be anything but a disaster.
Boy was I wrong! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Celerity > Regen > 3 levels > Instafade > Adrenaline/focus > Focus/Adrenaline > Cara > SoF = pizownage. NS:C comes alive again, stalking the hallways, blinking around, honing my skills on nubcaeks.. Some maps are horrible for it (Core, angst, maybe Ether), others are a dream (Faceoff, kestrel, rebirth).. But I have fun again.
I used to whine and cry and moan about focus nubcaek fades.. but seeing from behind their eyes.. swiping from behind their claws.. They're pretty damned difficult. Hell, it drains me just playing. Every so often, I have to retreat to a safe spot and just breathe for a second, since half the time I'm holding my breath whenever I blink, heh.
Like that one dude said, you should play both sides before making a serious judgement on anything. One nubcaek coming to the boards after being spawncamped by two fades (Or fasta pizowned by two fades while the rest of the team defends the hive.. Yes, two fades can occupy most of a marine force, and annoy the crap out of 'em.) or whatever.. yeah. You're going to be mad. Get over it. Go and play those focus fades before you whine and b!tch on these forums. It's safe to say that we're all pretty damned tired of hearing it.
And yeah, I still get owned hardcore from time to time. Usually it's when I'm pushing myself to whack that GLer, or if a nubcaek ducks at the last billisecond, completely negating my attack, or whatever. But I'll tell ya. Nothin' wastes ammo like a fade flying around your base. And just when you stop firing, focusing on what's coming next.. BAM! That's when I'll getcha! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The Fade I think.. Was better in 2.0...
The Onos may have a lot of health, but it goes down fast..
Learn how to play. Join a clan and get some experience in this... They aren't overpowered...
Fade is a bit of a bugbear though. The 'sparks' thing (I'm not 100% convinced it even exists and I'm just not sucking, but it does appear to happen) makes a Celerity Fade near unkillable on the hit & run, especially with Focus.
My ongoing suggestion is still to have Blink move slower than it does currently, but cloak you for the duration, just so the Fade actually <i>fades</i> rather than just flying about, which seems a little silly.
/me sigh
anyway, its all even, just learn to aim together, they go down in secs
its when you take them one on one you lose, and ns isnt about that(less you have a jp, in that case with right sence , you should be able to kill him given right upgrades and what not <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
3-4 marines should easily kill an Onos, that's the way it is supposed to be. 3-4 marines with LMGs should be a very scary fight for the Onos but it is not. The game is GREAT when the aliens have their higher forms and then marines are all decked out with equipment but 8/10 times it will be aliens with higher life forms and marines with lvl 2 weapons/armor and LMGs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH? no they should not. maybe 3-4 ha/hmg's but 3-4 lmg's? no way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not exactly? Are you saying that if only 1 alien goes gorge and builds stuff while the rest just res **** and go onos at 75 res they should be unstoppable? If you think 4 LMG marines should be slaughtered then what are they supposed to do when they are facing two, three, four, or five onos, who if they res ****, they can onos very fast? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol if everyone on aliens res **** the game will be over before they get the onos.
The outcome of an encounter with an onos depends solely on the marines. With decent aim, weapon upgrades and shotguns/HMGs an onos dies in less than 2 seconds against 3 marines. Most of the time the onos won't even come close to them. On higher ground a single marine can easily take down an onos all alone.
For the Classic fade goes the same. With Celerity it will be able to do fast blink attacks but as soon as you blinked in you won't be able to swipe them (no energy left). Adrenalin makes the fade a slow target. Decent marines (with shotgun) will kill both types of fade in a matter of seconds.
maybe i am just use to hit and run tatics, but i am ><
so, they are all even, like the other guy said, you can balance the game, you can't balance the players <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fade in NS:C is a deadly opponent (played by a decent skilled player) but in Classic it lacks Celerity or Adrenalin (because you cannot have both). You have the choice to go blink-wait-slash-wait-blink or slowblink-slash-slowblink. The onos in NS:C is pretty much the same as in Classic it can just take more upgrades from the same chamber.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That would be solved by allowing multiple upgrades per chamber. (I can talk balance if you want to) Can you imagine how much easier it would be to balance the game across the two modes with that change? Not to mention that it would allow Kharaa a faster end-game when the marines are bunkered in and the aliens can't spend their res fast enough.
I find this topic rather amusing. I'm sure the development team doesn't know anything about balancing the game. It's not like they've been doing it for a while or anything. And it's not like they have access to more statistics concerning this matter than any one player could ever have. Wait...
You think fade and onos are overpowered? There's a door marked "Join Aliens" in every ready room.
Onos 3 hive ability = useless
Acid rocket = useless
Insta-gibs = common
Lv3. marines = common
So I wouldn't say that fade or onos is "too strong."
Please explain to me how a onos charging into a marine base and salughtering everyone, or using it to evade death while being chased it considered useless?? It more of a problem with people not knowing how or when to use it then the skill itself.
This is SUCH a crock. Unless you're starting with a bunch of top-tier skulkers who'll be earning huge amounts of RFK, then they'll never survive to make Onos - any half-decent marine team would have the entire tech tree by this time. A single gorge can't just pull resources out of his butt to pay for res nodes, upgrade towers, and hives.
Sure, sometimes you'll get ONE or TWO guys who res-**** and go Onos and Fade, but this is a HUGE risk to their team. An early Onos is putting enough res for a hive and its basic defenses on the line; a couple marines with mid-range upgrades have a good chance of flushing those 75 resources down the poop-chute.
Yes, but only a little <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Have you noticed that no one anymore uses acid or (has never used) charge? Have you noticed that the new redemption is like commanders meds; always 1 second too late? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Onos can barely stand a second of concentrated lv3 lmg fire, not even speaking of HMG's. Fade even less. So sometimes I have to wonder if it's even worth evolving from skulk to something else when you are against a group of heavies or jets.
In most cases, 2 jets make escaping for onos impossible, whereas 2 HMG's make short work of him. The best thing is that the onos cannot even reach the jets if he has to assault some place -like his role was supposed to be <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"Assault class." My arse. "Block" is more like it.
Oh, I dunno... I find shooting it until it dies to be a universally effective tactic. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-.-
yea it works
An early 4-6 minute fade can hold the line for the kharaa, and then push the marines back. So just because the fade can push the marines back, you think it should be killable by vanilla marines easily, or that heavy weapons should be available off the bat?
Remember, if that early fade dies, marines can dominate the map and skulks. And the fade can be easily countered, if not killed, at least deterred from wiping out your teams.
Usually, marines are 1/1 when a fade appears. It takes 55 LMG rounds to kill the fade, or 4 shotgun blasts. If you have 4 marines with 2 shotguns, and that you might engaging in tight corridors, the chances of the fade dying is very easy. Even at 3 hives, it just takes 1 more shottie blast to down the fade.
A hive1 onos takes 173 L1 LMG rounds to take out. 159 L2 LMG, and 147 L3 LMG.
Clearly, 4 marines with 200 LMG rounds and 40 pistol rounds, if not surprised with stomp or a corner, should easily be able to make an onos flee. Throw in 1-2 shotguns or a HMG, and an onos dies very easily.
Marines start having problems with onos when there are more than 2. 1 onos with some light support can break a defence or attack on its own. A teched marine team can easily handle 1 onos, or 2 if they are good.
But any more onos, and they lack the firepower to take out the onos, and they cannot defend or attack all their positions. The appearance of 1 hive2 onos is not the end of the game, in fact, it's just heating up if you played your cards right. But if the aliens have 3++ onos, then you have a problem.
Fade costs 50 res to evolve, and is weak now to LMG fire, and gets tore through by HMG's.
Send your marines out in groups of 3-4 when u pub , and give 1-2 a shotty. If the marines know what they are doing and can aim, and can block the fade from his retreat (easyer said than done, but can be done easly with enough practice) the fade goes down. Very rarely does a fade in a pub do anything but rambo kill marines, and can be taken down with team work.
Case: Onos
Onos costs 75 to evolve, and w/ new hitboxes is easyer to hit. Just mow him with your weapons and chase him down.
If they get an onos, just consentrate fire on it, and chase it down when its hurt. When HMGS come out they are the bane to all onos.