<!--QuoteBegin-Rennex+Feb 18 2004, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rennex @ Feb 18 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 99% of complaints about CS are exaggerated. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 97.8579% of all statistics are made up on the spot
Personally, I don't care of Counter-Strike very much. For one, CS games can be spoiled so easily by *one* pro. Sometimes, when I just want some happy fragging against people of similar skill, some ûber l77t joins the server, kills the whole team single-handedly without even getting shot. Round after round. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Second, CS is just that; fragging. Most likely fragging against players who have insta-kill weapons and shoot 100% sure from the other end of the map. It had a name; "AWP" -a weapon "officially" banned from several servers. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> So, now I'm "NS ONLY" :-D (Hopefully the dev.team fixes that insta-gib bug soon >(
It's kinda silly to call people "CS-junkies" or "Combat-rubble", since every team should have a few players who just frag -keeps the other team in bay, if the player is skillful enough. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can't we all just get along? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no, that would be no fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@PseudoKnight: Actualy, the larger a comunity the more twits it tends to attracts (out of proportion to the 'nromal' people) Basicaly, even CS requires some level of intelegence/skill that alot of people flat out lack (thus the cries of HAX). Now when you make a game as redily avaliable as CS (It is THE most played FPS, I am rather sure that it even tops out alot of blizzard games...) You end up with alot of people joining who are just doing it b/c it is the 'cool' thing to be doing atm.... thus making for an unplesant influx of people.
This is not to say that there are not TONS of good/smart players out there, there are also pleanty that are not, this is true every where. The likelyhood of running i nto a lamer in NS1.04 (1.00 was full of lame people, it was called the marine stacks) was conciderably lower then it is now (in 2.0 or 3.0 especialy).
the number of times I have seen some one say "This is so g$y(pet peeve, remember? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) CS is so much better" as of late is distresingly high ;(
And as for CS and skill/teamwork. CS more so then NS Can still be dominated by one skilled player. And no amount of teamwork will take them down. This is not THAT common, but generaly it marks the end of my CS playing for the day/week/month.
Again, I have ywet to see team work come up regularly in CS to anything much over "you watch my back, I watch yours" and "Stick together team!". (admitadly, these tactics work VERY well in CS, I have had many a good game where it was simply me and another person working together and doing well) I am sure that this is different in clan play... but I am not interested in clan play, I am interested in pub play, and the level of team work found in NS pubs TENDS to be higher then those in CS Pubs. Also the level of maturity (real or enforced by servers) tends to be better.
Oh well, Inclosing here is what I am trying to say:
I Don't think CS is a bad game (I do think NS is much better). I Do Think CS is repetative, but thats not such a bad thing in small quanteties (I will never be able to play 4 hrs of CS like I do of NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) I Do think that the CS Comunity is still margenily worse (on average) Then the NS comunity (at this point it is getting rather close unfortunatly).
Note: I also refuse to play on FF servers (out side of DoD and BF1942), again personal hatred, all it takes is one llama to come in and the game is ruined (to the point where I will spawn kill them so that they can't kill the rest of my team to the point where I will be banned from the server and not care)
<!--QuoteBegin-Grillkohle+Feb 18 2004, 06:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grillkohle @ Feb 18 2004, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I personally don't have any problem with CS and CS players, as long as they don't<ul> </li><li>flame </li><li>accuse other people of hacking </li><li>lame around (purposely blocking, flashbangs, etc...) </li><li>swear at other people </li><li>hack </li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hate to break it to you, but um...that isn't just CS players....
I don't have a problem with any player as long as they don't do the above list, I don't care if they are playing tetris...if they do they above...then I don't like them...
For those of you looking for a decent CS server...since there are no good ones out there....check the sig.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
hehe, I think that was grill's point. (Atleast thats is the way I would read/agree with it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
<!--QuoteBegin-PseudoKnight+Feb 18 2004, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Feb 18 2004, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, I've been playing Natural-Selection since I first could (1.0). I'm a huge fan of the game for many reasons. Yet, I still play CS with regularity. I can't STAND it when people bash the game with unreasonable remarks and fallacies. Let me just tell you now that if you think CS doesn't take skill or intelligence to play you obviously haven't played it on a good server and/or competitively. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It is true. Pub CS sucks, a lot, for all the reasons given. CS in Cal is very very fun. Its a totally different game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kenichi+Feb 19 2004, 03:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kenichi @ Feb 19 2004, 03:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can't we all just get along? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's probably the best view yet.
My experience of CS is that it in fact has, even without a Comm view <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> , quite some strategy. When I played CS I used to play with my friends most of the time so, we knew how to play together. I could never practise anything but aim playing pub games alone, but (semi)clan play strategy was a must. If a Team just use the same approach every round, the enemy will know, and put it to an end. Most clans I know of has plenty of strategies for each map. Tell me that doesn't need skill...
The view of one player owning all in CS, have some truth, though just in weak clan play or over-averge pub play nothing but teamwork is Win, no matter if someone was God-Like. To get people out to crucial places in time is key.
EDIT: I have also seen ocationally(spelling?) a good comm lead the team to victory, just as 1337 fades that really slow the marines down...
What I want to say is that it isn't just a have-luck-with-your-random-aim game. Many find the game a fun game, and choose to spend alot of time playing it...
<!--QuoteBegin-Aezay+Feb 18 2004, 07:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aezay @ Feb 18 2004, 07:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Starchy+Feb 19 2004, 01:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Starchy @ Feb 19 2004, 01:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sigh....if only NS was made using the Quake engine... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the Half-Life engine was build from the Quake1 engine, with a few Quake2 engine modifications, so you could actually say its using the Quake engine <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ehm Quake 3 engine? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
In a way, I come from the Counterstrike community in that cs is the mod I played pretty much before I switched to ns totally. The only real reason I stopped playing cs is because it moved to Steam and, at the time, ns wasn't on Steam yet. I'd heard so many horror stories about Steam that I declined to get it. Unfortunately for me, ns went Steam as well and I had to find out that most of the horror stories are true.
Anyway, my take on this little ns bashing cs community issue is this: do not be hypocrites on it and you can hold your head high. Speaking for myself, even I didn't like cs while I was playing it. I only played it because my original game was Quake 1's Team Fortress mod and well, that's pretty much dead and buried. But I did play it and I learned all the nuances of that community that I could stomach. There are loads of hackers, lamers, and elitists in cs. But to me, here's the real shocker, there is a near perfect ratio of those same types of people here in ns. A lot of them I've seen in games, but I've seen just as many here on the boards. In a large way, the conduct of the bad element of the ns community makes my stomach turn because it reminds me so much of cs's bad element. Most prevalent among the bad element here in ns would be the abusive admins I've found. People that ban you simply because you are too good for them; this happened to me so much in cs and I was glad it stopped in ns for a small amount of time. When it became clear that the same kind of admins existed here, I was deeply disappointed. Natural Selection is by far the more interesting mod over Counterstrike and indeed all other competitive mods, but that doesn't save it from its community falling into the same habits as I've seen in cs. So basically, if you want to bash cs, take a deep look at your own behavior before you do so. You may find you're digging your own hole.
<!--QuoteBegin-casino+++Feb 18 2004, 03:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (casino++ @ Feb 18 2004, 03:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cs is just so................ old
I think it’s the fact that you join a cs public server 99% of time they are filled with arrogant 12 year old lamers that think they are god’s gift to gaming and try to enlarge their e-**** any chance they get. im sure there are lots of cool cs players out there its just you don’t get to see them very often. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How does this differ from the majority of ns servers? Except its 18 year old arrogant people who think they are gods gift to gaming. And then theres the vets. Don't get me started.
I think Del hit the nail on the head. My first online game was Deus Ex. Small community, chances are you're playing with the same guys on any given day. Maybe 50 people were in that community, when I heard all the hub-bub about Counter-Strike, I went over to that. CS was alot of fun for me, it was my gateway into the real online world, where everytime you connected you had a new set of folks shooting you. I went into and out of clans (mostly stupid kids with promises of their friend's friend who is getting them a server) and finally became a regular on skullz.net after a few months I was introduced to DoD 3.1 and ended up playing that all the time instead. I'm currently the leader of one of our DoD squads. A few months ago I got introduced to NS, and I gotta say Del is right. For every well-orchestrated CS/DoD match I've ever feilded, I did just as many goofy things in NS.
Me: OMG I'M ON THE FUGGIN` CEILING. THIS IS WILD!!!!
Me: DUDE I'M A RHINO!!!!!
Me: Ooooh. Hydrolics (walks around in HA to hear the sounds)
Me: its a bird!?
Me: RAWR I EATCHU!!!! ----------- The novelty wears off and eventually having a 1:32 K:D ratio is not enough, even if you're enjoying chewing on marine scrap metal, and you employ serious tactics to seriously win.
<!--QuoteBegin-Edgecrusher+Feb 19 2004, 12:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Feb 19 2004, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How does this differ from the majority of ns servers? Except its 18 year old arrogant people who think they are gods gift to gaming. And then theres the vets. Don't get me started. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It differs greatly on the servers I play on, everyone works together (unless its combat),where as pretty much all the cs servers round here are full of tards that just want to abuse,flashbang and TK their team mates, and don’t get ME started on the new vets…but that’s another topic completely.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It differs greatly on the servers I play on, everyone works together (unless its combat),where as pretty much all the cs servers round here are full of tards that just want to abuse,flashbang and TK their team mates, and don’t get ME started on the new vets…but that’s another topic completely.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Casino, the same could be said vice versa. You're just not playing on the right servers for CS. Whereas you ARE playing on the right servers for NS.
Interestingly, I often find that if you talk reasonably to annoying/angry players they drop their front and act respectable. It's like it's the norm to act rude online. Just don't feed that and they snap out of it. (at least some of them) Just something interesting I noticed.
it's poser like now... i mean come on it ust to be a great game now it's just blah hackers there idiots there.. ramboing awpers that r wining? ever since they got all those awards the creaters r thinking they can do no wrong.shield....
Long Live 3rd party HL mods...andUT2K4 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
CS itself is a good game, well, was. Its the community that killed it. Those lil 12 yr olds we say came in and complained and complained about inbalance, and got the game messed up. Then more joined, and it got worse and worse. Now they run the game. Hmm, oh damn, thats starting to happen here. NO NO NO NO.
After a long discussion with some cs players, we came up with a very simple explanation of the differences with cs/ns. CS-Tactical based 1st Strategical 2nd Relies much more on the individual than team NS- Strategical 1st Tactical 2nd Its much more of a team effort than a RAMBO
Think of it this way. With out CS, would HL be as popular as it is now? You could say that, DOD or TFC are also extremly popular, but if there was no CS to lure in the masses, i doubt they would of succeded in such a way. So you may say that CS is full of n00bs, but its not the developers fault. Yes, i agree cs is quite boring, but i doubt HL or ns would be where it is without CS, heck i doubt steam would exist. (and plz no steam bashing, it's currently superiour to WON Except for lan games)
<!--QuoteBegin-ssjyoda+Feb 19 2004, 09:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ssjyoda @ Feb 19 2004, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> After a long discussion with some cs players, we came up with a very simple explanation of the differences with cs/ns. CS-Tactical based 1st Strategical 2nd Relies much more on the individual than team NS- Strategical 1st Tactical 2nd Its much more of a team effort than a RAMBO
I just had to share. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, and ironically that's why so many people enjoyed 1.04, because 1-2 people can make a difference in a game with equal skill.
I've seen many more people accuse and be accused of hacking in NS then I have ever seen in CS, and thats given I've been playing CS since 1.0.
I have also seen more tolerance for newer players in most CS servers than I have in most NS servers.
I've encountered more lamers playing just to ruin the game playing NS then I have playing CS.
If I join a random pub in either CS or NS, I'm likely going to have more fun in CS because teamwork and communication is optional in CS. If nobody is working as a team you can still have fun in CS as opposed to NS. And there are many bad pubs out there for NS
Given that the game is the most played, and most widely used computer game for professional play, they sure as hell did something right.
There are several reason for that attitude, the first being that Counter-Strike is an old game and has a HUGE playerbase, hence most people who play Natural-Selection (or any other half-life mod) must have already played Counter-Strike, and with it's huge player base it's easy to select the worst cases to bash on, and with it's large history, there's many version of the game that people can selectively bash on.
The second is: Monkey see, monkey do! There's alot of associating between newbies and 'idiot CS aimboting 1337 wannabes', and as players see it, they learn it, and propagate it themselves.
But the main reason has to do with Counter-Strike's history itself. In the beginning, Counter-Strike was alot like Natural-Selection today, a game in which 'twitch' skill meant pretty much everything, and many players built themselves monstrous egos based on that twich skill. But as the game evolved, it came to require more than 'twitch' skill to win, and in such a game those 'twitch skill egos' were being beaten by 'skilless nublets'. After having their egos badly bruised, those 'ex-monstrous egos' started to migrate toward other games/mods who better served them (and their ego). In their new games/mods, typically based on twitch skill, those 'ex-monstrous egos' took every chance they got at rebuilding their egos by bashing at the players & game that previously hurt them, while at the same time doing their best to prevent their new realm from falling to those 'skilless nublets'. Hence, new players, low-'twitch skill' players, non-'twitch skill' gameplay, patches/changes & the game 'Counter-Strike' became their universal bashing targets that they all too happily associated with the worst form of stupidity they could. </rant>
But I'm not targetting this toward anyone... Honest!
CS is an <u>extremely</u> simple game to learn and attracted a very large amount of stupid people. This isn't to say there aren't smarter CSers...
The game has guns and terrorists and is point-and-shoot instant gratification. It (unintentionally?) caters to the ego of your stereotypical 13 year old who touts his mad skills.
It's also a game where a single person can demolish an entire team if that person knows what they are doing, reducing the teamwork on pubs.
I guess bashing CS is quite regular around other communities too, so I have a larger understanding now. Still, the next best NS comm sure is playing CS right now. I mean that we have to encourage any new player to keep on playing and not shout "OMG!1!!!!1 L4me CSn00b!!1!!" in his face...
<!--QuoteBegin-Impy_The_Lerk+Feb 23 2004, 03:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Feb 23 2004, 03:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what a whiney thred...
dont like the game ? dont play it ...
take up water polo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Accually, that might be a LOT better for my health <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sajber, you make good points. While I'm as guilty of it as the next guy, we are a bit arrogant.
CS is considered a "n00b-filled" game because it's popularity is so huge. DoD is becoming the same way. When you have a lot of people, naturally you will have more smacktards, lamers and idiots. Law of averages. And it's my theory that more people are stupid than not. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think the reason the NS community is so abrasive to the CS community is that much of the CS community is built of egos, trash-talk and poor sports. (which is exactly why I retired from CS in beta 6; the community has gone to Hell) NS is small enough and complex enough to avoid a lot of this.
Think of it this way; NS is a complex strategic FPS. This means it drives a lot of smacktards away because it just takes too long to learn the game in and out, then trash-talk everyone who isn't as good as you. CS is mostly about putting the crosshairs on the target, a much simpler concept. This makes it much easier to "tard up." As a result, people who are just decent pub players get inflated egos, and for most people that leads to poor behavior.
NS is getting a larger spoonful of this with the indroduction of combat. It's the same theory, and easily accessable to these types.
I will continue to say the CS community is the lowest-of-the-low, but I have to admit that many NS vets (including myself at times) are "arrogant divas" also. I don't have a problem owning up to that. As a small community however, we have the chance to work to change that and become a more open community.
And to the original poster, you seem like one of the good members of the CS community. The game could use more people like you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
97.8579% of all statistics are made up on the spot
Second, CS is just that; fragging. Most likely fragging against players who have insta-kill weapons and shoot 100% sure from the other end of the map. It had a name; "AWP" -a weapon "officially" banned from several servers. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> So, now I'm "NS ONLY" :-D (Hopefully the dev.team fixes that insta-gib bug soon >(
It's kinda silly to call people "CS-junkies" or "Combat-rubble", since every team should have a few players who just frag -keeps the other team in bay, if the player is skillful enough. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
no, that would be no fun <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@PseudoKnight:
Actualy, the larger a comunity the more twits it tends to attracts (out of proportion to the 'nromal' people)
Basicaly, even CS requires some level of intelegence/skill that alot of people flat out lack (thus the cries of HAX). Now when you make a game as redily avaliable as CS (It is THE most played FPS, I am rather sure that it even tops out alot of blizzard games...) You end up with alot of people joining who are just doing it b/c it is the 'cool' thing to be doing atm.... thus making for an unplesant influx of people.
This is not to say that there are not TONS of good/smart players out there, there are also pleanty that are not, this is true every where. The likelyhood of running i nto a lamer in NS1.04 (1.00 was full of lame people, it was called the marine stacks) was conciderably lower then it is now (in 2.0 or 3.0 especialy).
the number of times I have seen some one say "This is so g$y(pet peeve, remember? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) CS is so much better" as of late is distresingly high ;(
And as for CS and skill/teamwork.
CS more so then NS Can still be dominated by one skilled player. And no amount of teamwork will take them down. This is not THAT common, but generaly it marks the end of my CS playing for the day/week/month.
Again, I have ywet to see team work come up regularly in CS to anything much over "you watch my back, I watch yours" and "Stick together team!". (admitadly, these tactics work VERY well in CS, I have had many a good game where it was simply me and another person working together and doing well)
I am sure that this is different in clan play... but I am not interested in clan play, I am interested in pub play, and the level of team work found in NS pubs TENDS to be higher then those in CS Pubs. Also the level of maturity (real or enforced by servers) tends to be better.
Oh well, Inclosing here is what I am trying to say:
I Don't think CS is a bad game (I do think NS is much better).
I Do Think CS is repetative, but thats not such a bad thing in small quanteties (I will never be able to play 4 hrs of CS like I do of NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
I Do think that the CS Comunity is still margenily worse (on average) Then the NS comunity (at this point it is getting rather close unfortunatly).
Note: I also refuse to play on FF servers (out side of DoD and BF1942), again personal hatred, all it takes is one llama to come in and the game is ruined (to the point where I will spawn kill them so that they can't kill the rest of my team to the point where I will be banned from the server and not care)
</li><li>flame
</li><li>accuse other people of hacking
</li><li>lame around (purposely blocking, flashbangs, etc...)
</li><li>swear at other people
</li><li>hack
</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hate to break it to you, but um...that isn't just CS players....
I don't have a problem with any player as long as they don't do the above list, I don't care if they are playing tetris...if they do they above...then I don't like them...
For those of you looking for a decent CS server...since there are no good ones out there....check the sig.
It is true. Pub CS sucks, a lot, for all the reasons given. CS in Cal is very very fun. Its a totally different game.
That's probably the best view yet.
My experience of CS is that it in fact has, even without a Comm view <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> , quite some strategy. When I played CS I used to play with my friends most of the time so, we knew how to play together. I could never practise anything but aim playing pub games alone, but (semi)clan play strategy was a must. If a Team just use the same approach every round, the enemy will know, and put it to an end. Most clans I know of has plenty of strategies for each map. Tell me that doesn't need skill...
The view of one player owning all in CS, have some truth, though just in weak clan play or over-averge pub play nothing but teamwork is Win, no matter if someone was God-Like. To get people out to crucial places in time is key.
EDIT: I have also seen ocationally(spelling?) a good comm lead the team to victory, just as 1337 fades that really slow the marines down...
What I want to say is that it isn't just a have-luck-with-your-random-aim game. Many find the game a fun game, and choose to spend alot of time playing it...
Well, the Half-Life engine was build from the Quake1 engine, with a few Quake2 engine modifications, so you could actually say its using the Quake engine <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ehm Quake 3 engine? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, my take on this little ns bashing cs community issue is this: do not be hypocrites on it and you can hold your head high. Speaking for myself, even I didn't like cs while I was playing it. I only played it because my original game was Quake 1's Team Fortress mod and well, that's pretty much dead and buried. But I did play it and I learned all the nuances of that community that I could stomach. There are loads of hackers, lamers, and elitists in cs. But to me, here's the real shocker, there is a near perfect ratio of those same types of people here in ns. A lot of them I've seen in games, but I've seen just as many here on the boards. In a large way, the conduct of the bad element of the ns community makes my stomach turn because it reminds me so much of cs's bad element. Most prevalent among the bad element here in ns would be the abusive admins I've found. People that ban you simply because you are too good for them; this happened to me so much in cs and I was glad it stopped in ns for a small amount of time. When it became clear that the same kind of admins existed here, I was deeply disappointed. Natural Selection is by far the more interesting mod over Counterstrike and indeed all other competitive mods, but that doesn't save it from its community falling into the same habits as I've seen in cs. So basically, if you want to bash cs, take a deep look at your own behavior before you do so. You may find you're digging your own hole.
Cheers.
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I think it’s the fact that you join a cs public server 99% of time they are filled with arrogant 12 year old lamers that think they are god’s gift to gaming and try to enlarge their e-**** any chance they get. im sure there are lots of cool cs players out there its just you don’t get to see them very often. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How does this differ from the majority of ns servers? Except its 18 year old arrogant people who think they are gods gift to gaming. And then theres the vets. Don't get me started.
Me: OMG I'M ON THE FUGGIN` CEILING. THIS IS WILD!!!!
Me: DUDE I'M A RHINO!!!!!
Me: Ooooh. Hydrolics (walks around in HA to hear the sounds)
Me: its a bird!?
Me: RAWR I EATCHU!!!!
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The novelty wears off and eventually having a 1:32 K:D ratio is not enough, even if you're enjoying chewing on marine scrap metal, and you employ serious tactics to seriously win.
Just my buck fifty, though.
It differs greatly on the servers I play on, everyone works together (unless its combat),where as pretty much all the cs servers round here are full of tards that just want to abuse,flashbang and TK their team mates, and don’t get ME started on the new vets…but that’s another topic completely.
Interestingly, I often find that if you talk reasonably to annoying/angry players they drop their front and act respectable. It's like it's the norm to act rude online. Just don't feed that and they snap out of it. (at least some of them) Just something interesting I noticed.
it's poser like now... i mean come on it ust to be a great game now it's just blah hackers there idiots there.. ramboing awpers that r wining? ever since they got all those awards the creaters r thinking they can do no wrong.shield....
Long Live 3rd party HL mods...andUT2K4 <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
After a long discussion with some cs players, we came up with a very simple explanation of the differences with cs/ns.
CS-Tactical based 1st Strategical 2nd Relies much more on the individual than team
NS- Strategical 1st Tactical 2nd Its much more of a team effort than a RAMBO
I just had to share.
CS-Tactical based 1st Strategical 2nd Relies much more on the individual than team
NS- Strategical 1st Tactical 2nd Its much more of a team effort than a RAMBO
I just had to share. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, and ironically that's why so many people enjoyed 1.04, because 1-2 people can make a difference in a game with equal skill.
Sorry for double post.
I have also seen more tolerance for newer players in most CS servers than I have in most NS servers.
I've encountered more lamers playing just to ruin the game playing NS then I have playing CS.
If I join a random pub in either CS or NS, I'm likely going to have more fun in CS because teamwork and communication is optional in CS. If nobody is working as a team you can still have fun in CS as opposed to NS. And there are many bad pubs out there for NS
Given that the game is the most played, and most widely used computer game for professional play, they sure as hell did something right.
The second is: Monkey see, monkey do! There's alot of associating between newbies and 'idiot CS aimboting 1337 wannabes', and as players see it, they learn it, and propagate it themselves.
But the main reason has to do with Counter-Strike's history itself. In the beginning, Counter-Strike was alot like Natural-Selection today, a game in which 'twitch' skill meant pretty much everything, and many players built themselves monstrous egos based on that twich skill. But as the game evolved, it came to require more than 'twitch' skill to win, and in such a game those 'twitch skill egos' were being beaten by 'skilless nublets'. After having their egos badly bruised, those 'ex-monstrous egos' started to migrate toward other games/mods who better served them (and their ego). In their new games/mods, typically based on twitch skill, those 'ex-monstrous egos' took every chance they got at rebuilding their egos by bashing at the players & game that previously hurt them, while at the same time doing their best to prevent their new realm from falling to those 'skilless nublets'. Hence, new players, low-'twitch skill' players, non-'twitch skill' gameplay, patches/changes & the game 'Counter-Strike' became their universal bashing targets that they all too happily associated with the worst form of stupidity they could.
</rant>
But I'm not targetting this toward anyone... Honest!
The game has guns and terrorists and is point-and-shoot instant gratification. It (unintentionally?) caters to the ego of your stereotypical 13 year old who touts his mad skills.
It's also a game where a single person can demolish an entire team if that person knows what they are doing, reducing the teamwork on pubs.
dont like the game ? dont play it ...
take up water polo
I guess bashing CS is quite regular around other communities too, so I have a larger understanding now. Still, the next best NS comm sure is playing CS right now. I mean that we have to encourage any new player to keep on playing and not shout "OMG!1!!!!1 L4me CSn00b!!1!!" in his face...
dont like the game ? dont play it ...
take up water polo <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Accually, that might be a LOT better for my health <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CS is considered a "n00b-filled" game because it's popularity is so huge. DoD is becoming the same way. When you have a lot of people, naturally you will have more smacktards, lamers and idiots. Law of averages. And it's my theory that more people are stupid than not. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think the reason the NS community is so abrasive to the CS community is that much of the CS community is built of egos, trash-talk and poor sports. (which is exactly why I retired from CS in beta 6; the community has gone to Hell) NS is small enough and complex enough to avoid a lot of this.
Think of it this way; NS is a complex strategic FPS. This means it drives a lot of smacktards away because it just takes too long to learn the game in and out, then trash-talk everyone who isn't as good as you. CS is mostly about putting the crosshairs on the target, a much simpler concept. This makes it much easier to "tard up." As a result, people who are just decent pub players get inflated egos, and for most people that leads to poor behavior.
NS is getting a larger spoonful of this with the indroduction of combat. It's the same theory, and easily accessable to these types.
I will continue to say the CS community is the lowest-of-the-low, but I have to admit that many NS vets (including myself at times) are "arrogant divas" also. I don't have a problem owning up to that. As a small community however, we have the chance to work to change that and become a more open community.
And to the original poster, you seem like one of the good members of the CS community. The game could use more people like you <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->