Man I was really scared when I fell from the elevetor for the first time. I felt odd in my stomach you know:). This map has quite a good atmosphere while it doesn't even have ambient sounds added (not that I heard any) Can't wait to play it with my friends. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
dude just saying GJ on this map. I really havent had this much fun on a Combat map EVAR! Downloading b_10 right now.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> keep up the good work
First, thank you for the comments! It's especially good to hear from those that enjoy the map, since I'm pretty used to negative comments from non-fun purists at how they hate "fun" maps. Oh well, I've played some pretty intense battles and even more enjoyable combat gameplay with this map than most others. Even though this map is almost 10x (and more) than most other co_ maps, gameplay moves pretty swift.
Anyway, I think that the map is closing in on it's final release... so here is Beta 11: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 11 - Fixed Getting Stuck in Hive Phasegate Corner - Fixed Marines Getting Stuck on Ship Engines - Fixed Crate Texture Alignments - Fixed Onos Getting Stuck in Phasegates - Darkened ReadyRoom Lights - Darkened Lights in the Middle Level - Decreased Top Glass Health from 15k to 8k - Decreased Front Glass Health from 50k to 30k - Added Radiation Damage Near Ship's 4 Red Rods - Added Damage for Blocking Phasegate Doors - Decreased Hive Phasegate from 30 minutes to 25 minutes - Raised the Ship off the Ground (skulks, gorges, lerks, and rines can fit under) - Added Ship Landing Gear - Added a Way Out of Elevator Bottom - Removed Lamp Light Near Stacked Cargo Boxes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After spending a lot of time teraforming the map with triangle pieces (manually, no teraformer), I've released beta 12: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 12 - Completely Teraformed Middle Area (no more box) - Completely Re-Designed Hive Area - Completely Teraformed Hive Area - Added Climbable Fence on Elevator Sides - Increased Red Rod Damage from 30 to 50 - Added More Clipped Areas (minimize getting stuck) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have b7 and b12 on my server (7 in rotation) and a few comments:
People on my server seem to like the marine start in 7 better, (less issues with lag) except for the gorge being able to bilebomb from the hive.
Personally, I like the ambiance of 12 except for a few issues: The phasegates only work correctly on the first round. If they have opened on the first round, the "upper" phasegates will open but the "bottom" ones won't. I remember the old "siege_00x" maps having the same issues. The engine nacelles on the top of the marine ship is a pain to move around as a marine. They look nice but are extremely difficult to get out of in a fight. If they were designed that way, great, if they were designed more for looks, perhaps either encasing them in glass or adding "ramps" to get out might be nice.
I've had some extremely fun games on these maps. Takes me back to the old "ninjafall" days and "bitchslapping the marines to slow them down...
Beta 13 released: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Beta 13 - Fixed Hive Water - Changed Hive Terrain (more friendly) - Added Ambient Sounds - Removed Many Spot Light Sources (players got stuck and they took too much resources) - Decreased Red Laser Rod Damage from 50 to 30 - Enlarged Clip Areas Around Engines and Engine Pipes - Added Docking Bay Doors (non-functional) - Added Fence Walls Inside Ship (help with Marine defense) - Added Breakable Metal (2k) to Re-Close PG 1 Doors - Added Breakable Metal (3k) to Re-Close PG 2 Doors - Added a Vent from Lower Cavern to Lower Fan Tunnel - Increased Some Rock Texture Sizes (for lower r_speeds) - Lowered Top of East Climbable Elevator Fence <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome map! Reminds me so much of missile command, but combat style hehe.
Things I don't like: -2nd phase gate can be blocked by a single onos -area around space ship is too open, which makes it hell for skulks and heaven for lerks - there are only 3 entrances (elevator, weldable wind tunnel, top) and there should be entrances in 2 more corners of the area -weldable wind tunnel is rather useless for marines -water in hive area sucks for skulks -elevators shouldn't kill -should be an easier way to get on top of hive
i think the newest version is horrible, and a completely wrong turn from b3.
The following are constructive in purpose ONLY:
i really liked the marine start in b3, and the map in general looked fresh and playable. THe new look and pointless additions leave me in disbelief. The metal/gray rock textures went well together, and you swap it for passe` default half-life dirt textures? Yuck. The wind tunnel is useless, the spaceship serves NO purpose other than to look crappy (how the hell does that thing fly, its a giant cement block) and hurt players with those red bars. Take those out too. Marine start was a lot more functional and believable in b3, and I don't know what caused you to change it. I like the addition of weldable points, but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this, and weldables should only serve to open up new ambush paths. THe wind tunnel is fun at first, but grows tiring fast. The hive is really dumb, skulks are impossible to see with the texturing, and the hive texturing stands out as a beacon of hope, a fresh change from an eyesore of a map, which voids its purpose as an ugly festering alien building. It looks like you attempted a more "realistic" hive environment. I urge you to remove this concept, and work towards a more functional one, in which the hive is positioned in the middle with a intelligible network of ramps and corners allow the marines a positioning advantage. Give the elevator a roof, with one open panel in the roof, so that the aliens cant come raining down. Let the marines aim at SOMETHING, giving them atleast a marginal chance. There really dont seem to be any strategic choke points on this map, where huge conflics are waged, besides the marine start which will continue until the cc is destroyed (which happens about 99% of the time). Keep in mind that the lerk is the prime enemy in this map, and install some rooms or vents where the lerk isnt at a complete advantage. Again: RETEXTURE!! God, these look like my 6th grade maps before i knew the texture panel existed. The marines should always have the advantage at the start of the map, and this map simply doesnt allow. Early game, alien team rushes should be used - this is what kept early ninjafall maps fresh. And get rid of the curving tunnel into ms, shortening the visible distance between aliens and marines confrontation is another unneeded alien advantage.
it is ez to win as mariens. all you need do is defend the glass (this means getting out of the $^#&* ship and on to the roof). if you let them break the glass you are going to lose (not always but most of the time). dont all get a JP. a few (2 or 3 WITH WELDERS) HA to defend base and/or clear a PG of that onos.
<!--QuoteBegin-snarky+Feb 29 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (snarky @ Feb 29 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i think the newest version is horrible, and a completely wrong turn from b3.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, it needs tweaking/deleting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only.... they do.
One last thing: Shut the heel up about the textures! It is a playability beta, not a final product. Sheesh!
Give the guy some credit, this is one of the most memorable and fun maps in a LONG time. I mean, look at the (s)ex-ellent co_poseidon, that almost never get played even though it looks so good I wanna marry it, but this (admittedly, in spots) f-ugly map is always filling the server. Because it is FUN! And who knows, when it is done, maybe it will look sexeh too!
I agree, it needs tweaking/deleting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only.... they do.
One last thing: Shut the heel up about the textures! It is a playability beta, not a final product. Sheesh!
Give the guy some credit, this is one of the most memorable and fun maps in a LONG time. I mean, look at the (s)ex-ellent co_poseidon, that almost never get played even though it looks so good I wanna marry it, but this (admittedly, in spots) f-ugly map is always filling the server. Because it is FUN! And who knows, when it is done, maybe it will look sexeh too! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Phase gates WORK but they are dumb and easily countered by the aliens, hence the do not "Work" in a map like this. I rarely see phase gates in freefall serve their intended purpose.
I am complaining about the textures, because they have gotten much WORSE than they originally were. Since the level is degrading, I assumed the mapper was making a decision about the direction texturing was headed. And i voiced my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 16 - Fixed Fan Tunnel Lighting - Added Small Wall with Window Around Sides and Back of Command Chair - Added More Lighting Inside Ship - Increased Strength of Metal Hole Tile - Added Burn Marks on the Ship (battle wounds) - Added Clip Areas Around Some Hive Bones
Beta 15 - Moved Ship Sound Closer to Engines - Lowered the Ship Sound Volume - Added a Clip to Bottom of Engine Holes - Added Texture Lighting - Decreased Ship Ramp Slope - Moved PG Armory Away from Pipe - Removed PG Re-Closure Bars - Made Ship Glass a Tad Less Transparent - Added More Detail to the Hangar (floor) - Changed the Ship Texturing - Changed the Hive Texturing - Lowered Hive Water (again) - Extended the PG2 Hive Tunnel - Increased PG2 from 25 to 30 Minutes - Added Breakable (2k health) Roof Tile Covering Large Hole - Increased Top Fan Door Weld Time from 1 to 2 Minutes
Beta 14 - Fixed Right Hive Exit (Onos would get stuck) - Lowered Hive Water Level - Fixed Phasegate 2 Re-Close - Removed Bright Yellow Blocks in Upper Fan Tunnel - Made Hive Water a Tad More Transparent - Changed Ship Fences into Bars
<!--QuoteBegin-snarky+Feb 29 2004, 12:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (snarky @ Feb 29 2004, 12:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i think the newest version is horrible, and a completely wrong turn from b3.
The following are constructive in purpose ONLY:
i really liked the marine start in b3, and the map in general looked fresh and playable. THe new look and pointless additions leave me in disbelief. The metal/gray rock textures went well together, and you swap it for passe` default half-life dirt textures? Yuck. The wind tunnel is useless, the spaceship serves NO purpose other than to look crappy (how the hell does that thing fly, its a giant cement block) and hurt players with those red bars. Take those out too. Marine start was a lot more functional and believable in b3, and I don't know what caused you to change it. I like the addition of weldable points, but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this, and weldables should only serve to open up new ambush paths. THe wind tunnel is fun at first, but grows tiring fast. The hive is really dumb, skulks are impossible to see with the texturing, and the hive texturing stands out as a beacon of hope, a fresh change from an eyesore of a map, which voids its purpose as an ugly festering alien building. It looks like you attempted a more "realistic" hive environment. I urge you to remove this concept, and work towards a more functional one, in which the hive is positioned in the middle with a intelligible network of ramps and corners allow the marines a positioning advantage. Give the elevator a roof, with one open panel in the roof, so that the aliens cant come raining down. Let the marines aim at SOMETHING, giving them atleast a marginal chance. There really dont seem to be any strategic choke points on this map, where huge conflics are waged, besides the marine start which will continue until the cc is destroyed (which happens about 99% of the time). Keep in mind that the lerk is the prime enemy in this map, and install some rooms or vents where the lerk isnt at a complete advantage. Again: RETEXTURE!! God, these look like my 6th grade maps before i knew the texture panel existed. The marines should always have the advantage at the start of the map, and this map simply doesnt allow. Early game, alien team rushes should be used - this is what kept early ninjafall maps fresh. And get rid of the curving tunnel into ms, shortening the visible distance between aliens and marines confrontation is another unneeded alien advantage.
i honestly suggest a fresh start.
sincerely, SNarkY! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First off, thanks for the feedback, unfortunately, what you may have started out as "constructive" seemed to turn into a lot of flaming.
1) The original Marine start was heavily camped by aliens. There really wasn't a whole lot marines could do there. It was hard to get in and out of the base quickly, and once the glass was broken, it was pretty much an alien spam fest.
2) Your whining about textures is totally uncalled for, except for the one I used on the ship. As others have pointed out, this was still a beta, so there wasn't a lot of texturing on the ship yet (it has sense been re-textured in recent releases). The specific textures you whined about, were from the ns2.wad. The map still has many of the same "metal/rock" textures you seemed to have enjoyed in the early versions. So, basically, I'm just going to ignore your texture rantings as they are mostly lame and non-constructive at all.
3) The Wind Tunnels serve a lot of purpose and many, many players love them. There have been many great battles in there. Your "useless" comment only tells me that you haven't played the map much.
4) The ship itself doesn't look "crappy" and it's clear (if you ever took the time to really look at it) that it has 3 huge engines in the back. Secondly, it's not meant to fly around the map, it's docked there in that bay. Third, let's see you create a better ship along with everything else that I have going on in this huge map, with all of the HL1 engine restrictions. I've basically created something that works for a unique and creative marine start. If you don't like it, don't play it. (yet more un-constructive feedback)
5) You may not think that the phase gates work on this map, but they're very important in helping the game move along quickly. In fact, most official co_ maps are nothing but marine turtle-till-lvl10 maps. Then, they go attack. Aliens build up and the game is pretty much pointless with everyone at lvl10 and no victor. The PGs added to co_freefall help prevent the game from lasting an hour or more. In fact, once that 2nd PG is available, there is a sudden rush added to the game where both teams struggle to end the game quickly.
6) *sigh* Even more un-constructive comments regarding the hive area, except for the texturing. I've since redone the texturing in there as I had feedback from several other regular playtesters. But, your comments like "beacon of hope", "hive area is really dumb", "eyesore of a map", along with the many others you've made so far, make me ponder how and why you're even a "veteran", unless you're a NS official purist that can't stand a little creativity and breaking out of the mapping box.
7) All of your other comments don't really help either and only shows that you really haven't played the map much. Also, several of your other comments don't really show me that you're that much of a mapper either.
So, anyway, just move on and ignore this map entirely. It seems that you'll be more happy with the traditional "rooms" with "halls" types.
this is my favorite co map <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Beta 17 Released: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 17 - Changed Docking Bay Door to Force Field with Outside View - Moved Marine Spawns Around with Some Outside Ship (minimize spawn camping) - Increased Top Ship Glass Strength from 8k to 10k Each - Reduced Gamma from 1.5 to 1.3 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
beta beta beta beta X beta! WTH!!! when then final comes out? DONT CHANGE LOL <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> i have allready seen servers with co_freefall_b12 co_freefall_b14 lol!
<!--QuoteBegin-Nz-Nexus+Mar 5 2004, 08:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nz-Nexus @ Mar 5 2004, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> beta beta beta beta X beta! WTH!!! when then final comes out? DONT CHANGE LOL <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->? i have allready seen servers with co_freefall_b12 co_freefall_b14 lol! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL, yeah, I know. Rather than just releasing it with everything set in stone, I've involved many others that have contributed feedback with good ideas here and there along the way.
It's become more of a community effort at this point, and quite a challenge to maintain good balanced gameplay, create a good clean ambience, and stay within the resource limits of HL1. Also, with the map being so huge, with some of the largest rooms in NS, it's been quite a challenge to keep the map theme, while keeping r_speeds to a minimum.
With beta 17, we wanted to try and minimize the alien spawn camping the marines. So, based on feedback, I moved 8 of the spawns outside the ship.
Also, I went ahead and replaced that huge, ugly door with this: <a href='http://www.wwgaming.com/images/hl1/co_freefall/co_freefall_b17_1.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.wwgaming.com/images/hl1/co_freefall/co_freefall_b17_1sm.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
Other screenshots can be found here: <a href='http://www.wwgaming.com/co_freefall_b15.php' target='_blank'>http://www.wwgaming.com/co_freefall_b15.php</a>
Although those "laser windows" usually don't let you cloak properly(since cloak transparency isn't 100%, your silhouette(sp?) shows up, in a nifty-looking, but surprise-ruining way. Then again, cloak is 100% annoying, so nvm.
=o I like that new door <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yea, me too. What did you use to make that, a func_wall set to additive? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
GJ Hound!
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> keep up the good work
-Azn
Anyway, I think that the map is closing in on it's final release... so here is Beta 11:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 11
- Fixed Getting Stuck in Hive Phasegate Corner
- Fixed Marines Getting Stuck on Ship Engines
- Fixed Crate Texture Alignments
- Fixed Onos Getting Stuck in Phasegates
- Darkened ReadyRoom Lights
- Darkened Lights in the Middle Level
- Decreased Top Glass Health from 15k to 8k
- Decreased Front Glass Health from 50k to 30k
- Added Radiation Damage Near Ship's 4 Red Rods
- Added Damage for Blocking Phasegate Doors
- Decreased Hive Phasegate from 30 minutes to 25 minutes
- Raised the Ship off the Ground (skulks, gorges, lerks, and rines can fit under)
- Added Ship Landing Gear
- Added a Way Out of Elevator Bottom
- Removed Lamp Light Near Stacked Cargo Boxes<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 12
- Completely Teraformed Middle Area (no more box)
- Completely Re-Designed Hive Area
- Completely Teraformed Hive Area
- Added Climbable Fence on Elevator Sides
- Increased Red Rod Damage from 30 to 50
- Added More Clipped Areas (minimize getting stuck)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People on my server seem to like the marine start in 7 better, (less issues with lag) except for the gorge being able to bilebomb from the hive.
Personally, I like the ambiance of 12 except for a few issues:
The phasegates only work correctly on the first round. If they have opened on the first round, the "upper" phasegates will open but the "bottom" ones won't. I remember the old "siege_00x" maps having the same issues.
The engine nacelles on the top of the marine ship is a pain to move around as a marine. They look nice but are extremely difficult to get out of in a fight. If they were designed that way, great, if they were designed more for looks, perhaps either encasing them in glass or adding "ramps" to get out might be nice.
I've had some extremely fun games on these maps. Takes me back to the old "ninjafall" days and "bitchslapping the marines to slow them down...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Beta 13
- Fixed Hive Water
- Changed Hive Terrain (more friendly)
- Added Ambient Sounds
- Removed Many Spot Light Sources (players got stuck and they took too much resources)
- Decreased Red Laser Rod Damage from 50 to 30
- Enlarged Clip Areas Around Engines and Engine Pipes
- Added Docking Bay Doors (non-functional)
- Added Fence Walls Inside Ship (help with Marine defense)
- Added Breakable Metal (2k) to Re-Close PG 1 Doors
- Added Breakable Metal (3k) to Re-Close PG 2 Doors
- Added a Vent from Lower Cavern to Lower Fan Tunnel
- Increased Some Rock Texture Sizes (for lower r_speeds)
- Lowered Top of East Climbable Elevator Fence
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
all the changes are nice save the bar light in the uper air vent. it is hard on the eyes.
also requesting you go back to beta7 sometime and bring it into its own sometime.
good good fun
Things I don't like:
-2nd phase gate can be blocked by a single onos
-area around space ship is too open, which makes it hell for skulks and heaven for lerks - there are only 3 entrances (elevator, weldable wind tunnel, top) and there should be entrances in 2 more corners of the area
-weldable wind tunnel is rather useless for marines
-water in hive area sucks for skulks
-elevators shouldn't kill
-should be an easier way to get on top of hive
Thins I like:
-the rest
The following are constructive in purpose ONLY:
i really liked the marine start in b3, and the map in general looked fresh and playable. THe new look and pointless additions leave me in disbelief. The metal/gray rock textures went well together, and you swap it for passe` default half-life dirt textures? Yuck. The wind tunnel is useless, the spaceship serves NO purpose other than to look crappy (how the hell does that thing fly, its a giant cement block) and hurt players with those red bars. Take those out too. Marine start was a lot more functional and believable in b3, and I don't know what caused you to change it. I like the addition of weldable points, but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this, and weldables should only serve to open up new ambush paths. THe wind tunnel is fun at first, but grows tiring fast. The hive is really dumb, skulks are impossible to see with the texturing, and the hive texturing stands out as a beacon of hope, a fresh change from an eyesore of a map, which voids its purpose as an ugly festering alien building. It looks like you attempted a more "realistic" hive environment. I urge you to remove this concept, and work towards a more functional one, in which the hive is positioned in the middle with a intelligible network of ramps and corners allow the marines a positioning advantage. Give the elevator a roof, with one open panel in the roof, so that the aliens cant come raining down. Let the marines aim at SOMETHING, giving them atleast a marginal chance. There really dont seem to be any strategic choke points on this map, where huge conflics are waged, besides the marine start which will continue until the cc is destroyed (which happens about 99% of the time). Keep in mind that the lerk is the prime enemy in this map, and install some rooms or vents where the lerk isnt at a complete advantage. Again: RETEXTURE!! God, these look like my 6th grade maps before i knew the texture panel existed. The marines should always have the advantage at the start of the map, and this map simply doesnt allow. Early game, alien team rushes should be used - this is what kept early ninjafall maps fresh. And get rid of the curving tunnel into ms, shortening the visible distance between aliens and marines confrontation is another unneeded alien advantage.
i honestly suggest a fresh start.
sincerely,
SNarkY!
dont all get a JP. a few (2 or 3 WITH WELDERS) HA to defend base and/or clear a PG of that onos.
although you speak the truth.
Nah.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The wind tunnel is useless,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, it needs tweaking/deleting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only.... they do.
One last thing: Shut the heel up about the textures! It is a playability beta, not a final product. Sheesh!
Give the guy some credit, this is one of the most memorable and fun maps in a LONG time. I mean, look at the (s)ex-ellent co_poseidon, that almost never get played even though it looks so good I wanna marry it, but this (admittedly, in spots) f-ugly map is always filling the server. Because it is FUN! And who knows, when it is done, maybe it will look sexeh too!
it could end up being a sexxeh (and original) "vertical co_map"... a first of it's kind... why not, right?
Nah.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The wind tunnel is useless,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, it needs tweaking/deleting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only.... they do.
One last thing: Shut the heel up about the textures! It is a playability beta, not a final product. Sheesh!
Give the guy some credit, this is one of the most memorable and fun maps in a LONG time. I mean, look at the (s)ex-ellent co_poseidon, that almost never get played even though it looks so good I wanna marry it, but this (admittedly, in spots) f-ugly map is always filling the server. Because it is FUN! And who knows, when it is done, maybe it will look sexeh too! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Phase gates WORK but they are dumb and easily countered by the aliens, hence the do not "Work" in a map like this. I rarely see phase gates in freefall serve their intended purpose.
I am complaining about the textures, because they have gotten much WORSE than they originally were. Since the level is degrading, I assumed the mapper was making a decision about the direction texturing was headed. And i voiced my opinion.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 16
- Fixed Fan Tunnel Lighting
- Added Small Wall with Window Around Sides and Back of Command Chair
- Added More Lighting Inside Ship
- Increased Strength of Metal Hole Tile
- Added Burn Marks on the Ship (battle wounds)
- Added Clip Areas Around Some Hive Bones
Beta 15
- Moved Ship Sound Closer to Engines
- Lowered the Ship Sound Volume
- Added a Clip to Bottom of Engine Holes
- Added Texture Lighting
- Decreased Ship Ramp Slope
- Moved PG Armory Away from Pipe
- Removed PG Re-Closure Bars
- Made Ship Glass a Tad Less Transparent
- Added More Detail to the Hangar (floor)
- Changed the Ship Texturing
- Changed the Hive Texturing
- Lowered Hive Water (again)
- Extended the PG2 Hive Tunnel
- Increased PG2 from 25 to 30 Minutes
- Added Breakable (2k health) Roof Tile Covering Large Hole
- Increased Top Fan Door Weld Time from 1 to 2 Minutes
Beta 14
- Fixed Right Hive Exit (Onos would get stuck)
- Lowered Hive Water Level
- Fixed Phasegate 2 Re-Close
- Removed Bright Yellow Blocks in Upper Fan Tunnel
- Made Hive Water a Tad More Transparent
- Changed Ship Fences into Bars
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The following are constructive in purpose ONLY:
i really liked the marine start in b3, and the map in general looked fresh and playable. THe new look and pointless additions leave me in disbelief. The metal/gray rock textures went well together, and you swap it for passe` default half-life dirt textures? Yuck. The wind tunnel is useless, the spaceship serves NO purpose other than to look crappy (how the hell does that thing fly, its a giant cement block) and hurt players with those red bars. Take those out too. Marine start was a lot more functional and believable in b3, and I don't know what caused you to change it. I like the addition of weldable points, but phase gates do NOT work in a map like this, and weldables should only serve to open up new ambush paths. THe wind tunnel is fun at first, but grows tiring fast. The hive is really dumb, skulks are impossible to see with the texturing, and the hive texturing stands out as a beacon of hope, a fresh change from an eyesore of a map, which voids its purpose as an ugly festering alien building. It looks like you attempted a more "realistic" hive environment. I urge you to remove this concept, and work towards a more functional one, in which the hive is positioned in the middle with a intelligible network of ramps and corners allow the marines a positioning advantage. Give the elevator a roof, with one open panel in the roof, so that the aliens cant come raining down. Let the marines aim at SOMETHING, giving them atleast a marginal chance. There really dont seem to be any strategic choke points on this map, where huge conflics are waged, besides the marine start which will continue until the cc is destroyed (which happens about 99% of the time). Keep in mind that the lerk is the prime enemy in this map, and install some rooms or vents where the lerk isnt at a complete advantage. Again: RETEXTURE!! God, these look like my 6th grade maps before i knew the texture panel existed. The marines should always have the advantage at the start of the map, and this map simply doesnt allow. Early game, alien team rushes should be used - this is what kept early ninjafall maps fresh. And get rid of the curving tunnel into ms, shortening the visible distance between aliens and marines confrontation is another unneeded alien advantage.
i honestly suggest a fresh start.
sincerely,
SNarkY! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, thanks for the feedback, unfortunately, what you may have started out as "constructive" seemed to turn into a lot of flaming.
1) The original Marine start was heavily camped by aliens. There really wasn't a whole lot marines could do there. It was hard to get in and out of the base quickly, and once the glass was broken, it was pretty much an alien spam fest.
2) Your whining about textures is totally uncalled for, except for the one I used on the ship. As others have pointed out, this was still a beta, so there wasn't a lot of texturing on the ship yet (it has sense been re-textured in recent releases). The specific textures you whined about, were from the ns2.wad. The map still has many of the same "metal/rock" textures you seemed to have enjoyed in the early versions. So, basically, I'm just going to ignore your texture rantings as they are mostly lame and non-constructive at all.
3) The Wind Tunnels serve a lot of purpose and many, many players love them. There have been many great battles in there. Your "useless" comment only tells me that you haven't played the map much.
4) The ship itself doesn't look "crappy" and it's clear (if you ever took the time to really look at it) that it has 3 huge engines in the back. Secondly, it's not meant to fly around the map, it's docked there in that bay. Third, let's see you create a better ship along with everything else that I have going on in this huge map, with all of the HL1 engine restrictions. I've basically created something that works for a unique and creative marine start. If you don't like it, don't play it. (yet more un-constructive feedback)
5) You may not think that the phase gates work on this map, but they're very important in helping the game move along quickly. In fact, most official co_ maps are nothing but marine turtle-till-lvl10 maps. Then, they go attack. Aliens build up and the game is pretty much pointless with everyone at lvl10 and no victor. The PGs added to co_freefall help prevent the game from lasting an hour or more. In fact, once that 2nd PG is available, there is a sudden rush added to the game where both teams struggle to end the game quickly.
6) *sigh* Even more un-constructive comments regarding the hive area, except for the texturing. I've since redone the texturing in there as I had feedback from several other regular playtesters. But, your comments like "beacon of hope", "hive area is really dumb", "eyesore of a map", along with the many others you've made so far, make me ponder how and why you're even a "veteran", unless you're a NS official purist that can't stand a little creativity and breaking out of the mapping box.
7) All of your other comments don't really help either and only shows that you really haven't played the map much. Also, several of your other comments don't really show me that you're that much of a mapper either.
So, anyway, just move on and ignore this map entirely. It seems that you'll be more happy with the traditional "rooms" with "halls" types.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Beta 17
- Changed Docking Bay Door to Force Field with Outside View
- Moved Marine Spawns Around with Some Outside Ship (minimize spawn camping)
- Increased Top Ship Glass Strength from 8k to 10k Each
- Reduced Gamma from 1.5 to 1.3
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> i have allready seen servers with co_freefall_b12 co_freefall_b14 lol!
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->? i have allready seen servers with co_freefall_b12 co_freefall_b14 lol! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL, yeah, I know. Rather than just releasing it with everything set in stone, I've involved many others that have contributed feedback with good ideas here and there along the way.
It's become more of a community effort at this point, and quite a challenge to maintain good balanced gameplay, create a good clean ambience, and stay within the resource limits of HL1. Also, with the map being so huge, with some of the largest rooms in NS, it's been quite a challenge to keep the map theme, while keeping r_speeds to a minimum.
With beta 17, we wanted to try and minimize the alien spawn camping the marines. So, based on feedback, I moved 8 of the spawns outside the ship.
Also, I went ahead and replaced that huge, ugly door with this:
<a href='http://www.wwgaming.com/images/hl1/co_freefall/co_freefall_b17_1.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://www.wwgaming.com/images/hl1/co_freefall/co_freefall_b17_1sm.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
Other screenshots can be found here:
<a href='http://www.wwgaming.com/co_freefall_b15.php' target='_blank'>http://www.wwgaming.com/co_freefall_b15.php</a>
Although those "laser windows" usually don't let you cloak properly(since cloak transparency isn't 100%, your silhouette(sp?) shows up, in a nifty-looking, but surprise-ruining way.
Then again, cloak is 100% annoying, so nvm.