<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well of course it's true that not all Christians want to scare you into following their beliefs... but that was just a guess at the point of this movie, and if it wasn't the point, then ... then what WAS the point of watching such horror for so much time? Jesus had some beautiful teachings, shouldn't they have been given like an hour and a half, leaving just a half hour for the torture? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom. If you're not afraid of being judged then why care ? If you don't fear being punished for speeding, murder, assault etc. then what basis does the law have ?
God is a judge, God has to punish us because he is a just God. A judge who let people off isn't a good judge. That's the whole reason for Jesus, he couldn't just let us off, the punishment had to be paid, but instead of having us pay for it, Jesus paid the cost. Judaism and Christianity is a religion based on law. Good, evil, right, wrong. The punishment of sin is death.
The Ten Commandments is law, inherently no different then the laws of our government, you are supposed to obey, if you transgress the law there is punishment. I only need to use three commandments to show that you're guilty.
Have you ever lied ? That makes you a liar. Have you ever stolen, no matter how small ? You're a thief. Have you ever lusted, a man who lusts commits adultery in his own heart. You're adulterous.
You're a lying, thieving, adulterer at heart. You don't sound like a really good person anymore. If your punishment is death and seperation from God how can we help you if you think Jesus is just there to make your life cozier ?
Analogy :
A parachute is given to passenger on a airplane, the attendant tells him that it will make his life more fulfilling, and happier. He will really enjoy life if he just tries it. Later, the passenger feels uncomfortable, he doesnt like people pointing at him and snickering. He spills his coffee on himself and then is fed up, he throws down the parachute and curses it.
Another parachute is given to another passenger on the airplane. The attendant tells him that it will be uncomfortable, but when the time comes to jump, he will be safe. The man goes through all the problems of the previous passenger, but he knows it will be uncomfortable, but he doesn't blame the parachute, it's there to save his life.
Fear, is honestly, probably the best way to help someone understand. If there's nothing to fear, why bother ? If we were to look you in the eyes on judgement day and you said to us, why didn't you slap me ? Tell me !? How can we make you understand what it means to break the law if you're not afraid ? How can we make you understand why Jesus' death was so important, to count the cost ?
Ok. First of all, Christianity doesn't necessarily make you a happier person, your life gets more difficult, you get criticized, mocked et cetera. Why would anyone want to live a life with such problems? Because we are afraid of God's judgement. Why do you not speed ? It gets you places faster, it's because you are afraid of the punishment, you don't want it, you don't need it, you're afraid, thats a good reason for obeying the law.
Don't get me wrong though, the foundations of Christianity is Law and grace. The law is there to help people understand why they need to fear judgement, and the grace is given because all fall short of the glory of God.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sirus+Mar 3 2004, 01:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Mar 3 2004, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok. First of all, Christianity doesn't necessarily make you a happier person, your life gets more difficult, you get criticized, mocked et cetera. Why would anyone want to live a life with such problems? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, the life of a believer is full of peace. Persecution and hatred is expected, but with the power of the Holy Spirit, we overcome such obstacles, and God is glorified through them. A true believer understands there is absolutely *nothing* on earth that is terrible enough to outweigh the glorious relationship a believer has with Jesus Christ.
Romans 5 1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
As Paul said, even if heaven itself was found to be a work of fiction, the relationship a believer has with Christ is more than enough to make every moment worthwhile.
I don't agree that fear is the only true motive to believe. That puts no esteem in me, as a human being, being capable to make a decision simply because it's the right thing to do. I believe in Jesus not because I'm afraid. In fact, I don't even believe in hell. I believe in Jesus because of a great love and gratitude that exists inside myself. Simply believing out of fear isn't believing at all <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
well of course it's true that not all Christians want to scare you into following their beliefs... but that was just a guess at the point of this movie, and if it wasn't the point, then ... then what WAS the point of watching such horror for so much time? Jesus had some beautiful teachings, shouldn't they have been given like an hour and a half, leaving just a half hour for the torture?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom. If you're not afraid of being judged then why care ? If you don't fear being punished for speeding, murder, assault etc. then what basis does the law have ?
God is a judge, God has to punish us because he is a just God. A judge who let people off isn't a good judge. That's the whole reason for Jesus, he couldn't just let us off, the punishment had to be paid, but instead of having us pay for it, Jesus paid the cost. Judaism and Christianity is a religion based on law. Good, evil, right, wrong. The punishment of sin is death.
The Ten Commandments is law, inherently no different then the laws of our government, you are supposed to obey, if you transgress the law there is punishment. I only need to use three commandments to show that you're guilty.
Have you ever lied ? That makes you a liar.
Have you ever stolen, no matter how small ? You're a thief.
Have you ever lusted, a man who lusts commits adultery in his own heart. You're adulterous.
You're a lying, thieving, adulterer at heart. You don't sound like a really good person anymore. If your punishment is death and seperation from God how can we help you if you think Jesus is just there to make your life cozier ?
Analogy :
A parachute is given to passenger on a airplane, the attendant tells him that it will make his life more fulfilling, and happier. He will really enjoy life if he just tries it. Later, the passenger feels uncomfortable, he doesnt like people pointing at him and snickering. He spills his coffee on himself and then is fed up, he throws down the parachute and curses it.
Another parachute is given to another passenger on the airplane. The attendant tells him that it will be uncomfortable, but when the time comes to jump, he will be safe. The man goes through all the problems of the previous passenger, but he knows it will be uncomfortable, but he doesn't blame the parachute, it's there to save his life.
Fear, is honestly, probably the best way to help someone understand. If there's nothing to fear, why bother ? If we were to look you in the eyes on judgement day and you said to us, why didn't you slap me ? Tell me !? How can we make you understand what it means to break the law if you're not afraid ? How can we make you understand why Jesus' death was so important, to count the cost ?
Don't get me wrong though, the foundations of Christianity is Law and grace. The law is there to help people understand why they need to fear judgement, and the grace is given because all fall short of the glory of God.
Actually, the life of a believer is full of peace. Persecution and hatred is expected, but with the power of the Holy Spirit, we overcome such obstacles, and God is glorified through them. A true believer understands there is absolutely *nothing* on earth that is terrible enough to outweigh the glorious relationship a believer has with Jesus Christ.
Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
As Paul said, even if heaven itself was found to be a work of fiction, the relationship a believer has with Christ is more than enough to make every moment worthwhile.
/cry
/cry <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well said.