<!--QuoteBegin-Plaguebearer+Mar 10 2004, 02:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plaguebearer @ Mar 10 2004, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One thing I thought I'd mention, as having been involved with playtesting NS for quite some time now -
Generally, Flayra is <b>not</b> looking for new ideas from the playtesting staff. Time and time again he's stressed that he's more interested in whether something works or not, is fun or not. A suggestion to him to totally revamp the way aliens work will most likely go ignored.
(Flay- I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, this is just my observation of how you handle playtesting.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If it happens then oh well, instead of spreading my wrath in some pub server I took the time to think of an idea that I feel would draw a different kind of player into the game, people say that this mod is going to die out, which may or may not be true, but having more players never hurt a mod, only lack of players kill it.
I know this idea will not be implemented, but I wanted to give it a shot anyway.
Yea. the fact that the marines have something as powerful as seiges negates any idea of Kharaa camping. Any kind of really expensive upgrade chamber seems to be a waste when it can be blown away in a few moments, unless it is placed in some really obscure location on the map that seiges can't reach.
Something that this E-Chamber could be, however, is a way to allow the Kharaa to build certain upgrade chambers even after they've lost a hive. It is a major pain in the rear end when your DC hive has been blown to bits and you only have 2 DCs left. Maybe there could be a way the E-Chamber could allow the creation of more DCs, or something of the like.
<!--QuoteBegin-Plaguebearer+Mar 10 2004, 08:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plaguebearer @ Mar 10 2004, 08:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Generally, Flayra is <b>not</b> looking for new ideas from the playtesting staff. Time and time again he's stressed that he's more interested in whether something works or not, is fun or not. A suggestion to him to totally revamp the way aliens work will most likely go ignored. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Even if i <i>really</i> like FireWater's 2nd suggestion (E chamber bringing new upgrades and hives bringing weapons/spawn), i doubt Flayra will consider it, as PlagueBearer said. But who knows ...
It will definetely brings NS a step closer to Starcraft, which is a good thing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
whether this idea gets accepted or not, I think everyone who read this would have to agree that this is better than the aver "OMG FADE IS OVERPOWERED" thread, so even if it gets passed over, at least its an idea worth reading about.
That could work, it would still allow early game tactics, but if that happens, SENSORY CHAMBERS CANNOT CLOAK players anymore, it would just be too powerful
Sensory instead should be self cloaking, and give scent of fear for the room that the sense chamber is in.
Instead of adding "evolution chambers" why not just put around 4-6 rooms suitable to put a hive on a map, and limit the maximum number of active hives to 3?
This way hive lockdown would be really over, since it would be too costly for marines to hold 4-6 locations on a map. They would have to play offensively, not defensively.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 10 2004, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 10 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That could work, it would still allow early game tactics, but if that happens, SENSORY CHAMBERS CANNOT CLOAK players anymore, it would just be too powerful
Sensory instead should be self cloaking, and give scent of fear for the room that the sense chamber is in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember, you could just tweak sensory chambers up to something like 12 res or whatever.
Drastically altering current maps is not an enticing option. However, I would favor a future version of NS supporting >3 hives in new maps with the given limitation you mentioned. Would be interesting to see how it plays.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 11 2004, 05:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 11 2004, 05:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Mar 10 2004, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Mar 10 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That could work, it would still allow early game tactics, but if that happens, SENSORY CHAMBERS CANNOT CLOAK players anymore, it would just be too powerful
Sensory instead should be self cloaking, and give scent of fear for the room that the sense chamber is in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember, you could just tweak sensory chambers up to something like 12 res or whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Flay tries to go by 5's. (ie. 10, 15)
Both suggestions are decent options in balancing the sensory chamber for the idea. They could even alter the range of the cloaking or it's effectiveness in various ways.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 200 bux he's not going to change anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
Im still waiting for the freedom to place hives anywhere in the map. Not within certain distances of eachother of course. I still believe it can be acomplished.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 11 2004, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 11 2004, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 200 bux he's not going to change anything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Been away for awhile and I see there are a few interesting things brewing...
Did someone suggest a the idea of a buildable hive (which allows spawns) at any location on the map? I think that sounds very interesting and it could be a very dynamic gameplay model... this is my first impression of how I think it could work;
- Aliens are allowed a maximum of 3 hives. - The Main Hive (or Mother Hive) cannot be destroyed (like the CC) - The 2 other hives can be built anywhere on the map (Expandable Hives) - Evolutions and abilities <b><i>are</i></b> linked to hives* - Chambers <b><i>are not</i></b> linked to Hives
*<i>I know this is kind of going back to the 1.04 Hive system but bear with me</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Aliens can spawn from expandable hives - Expandable hives are weaker then the mother hive (slightly slower heal rate and lesser cost?) - Expandable hives can only be built outside of a min. distance from Mother Hive* - Expandable hives has a min. space requirement (no hives in hallway/small rooms)
*<i>Cannot have 3 hives healing each other :o</i>
<u><b>Impact?</b></u>
- No predefined hive locations (less predictablility, more strategic options) - Expandable Hives can be built as a forward base, a resource base in a resource rich area, or to hold strategic areas<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Gorges can build any chamber any time - Aliens will only be allowed to get 1-of-3 chamber upgrades per hive (2 hives: 2-of-3 upgrades / 3 hives: 3-of-3 upgrades)
<b><u>Impact?</u></b>
- Aliens can employ mixed upgrade tactics before 2+ hives - No chamber order means greater flexability and adaptability<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Basic Concept - <u>Linking Evolutions and Abilities to Hives</u></b>
- 1 Hive: Skulks, Gorges, and Lerks / 2 Hives: Fades / 3 Hives: Onos - Abilities linked to hives (same as always)
<b><u>Impact?</u></b><i>
- Some people might really be displeased with this suggestion but I think <b>deployable spawn points</b> [i]and</i> <b>chambers unlinked from hives</b> are both significant advances. Evolutions at any hive seems a little overpowered with idea idea (<i>but you tell me, think it would work with evos unlinked to hives?</i>) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My initial impression of this system is that it is a compromise between completely doing away a system with a 3 Hive Structure and giving aliens more tactical and strategic flexibility.
I think the main impact of deployable hive system as opposed to the current hive system is that the aliens are now in control of what territory they want to take. In all the other versions the territory aliens <b><i>required</i></b> is predefined by the map. By allowing aliens to pick where they want a 2nd/3rd spawn area (balanced by the marine ability to relocate ips or to build forward bases?), this drastically alters the marine approach to wiping the aliens out. Things change when you don't know the enemy can come from 1-of-3 places.
This suggestion is by no means perfect and as always feel free to open up.
The gameplay I envision is a fight for resources where mini-hives and tfac/sieges/turrets are built, fought over and destroyed in the struggle for terrritory, resources, and ultimately, access to each others MS. (They both know where each others MS is, but where are the PGs and mini-hives?) Major tweaks required? Probably. Costs would have to be adjusted.
Use your imagination if you see something in it, tell me what you think. Whomever suggested it, I don't quite recall, I think it is a fair coimpromise of ideas with interesting strategic possibilities.
I think it preserves the action in the FPS while expanding strategic depth in the RTS.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 11 2004, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 11 2004, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 200 bux he's not going to change anything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then just say it then;
<b>"Flayra doesn't care what you think."</b>
Don't play your silly little snobby games and be a man and tell us straight and to our face:
<b>"Your ideas are not welcome here."</b>
If that is what you think you are free to express it so don't bog down this thread with your petty attitude, say it once bluntly and leave.
I wanted BHing* removed, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was removed. I wanted to see a pause so marines can no longer jump repeatedly, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was put in.... I have many more examples...
*BHing for speed
It seems to me your opinion is based on attitude and not fact.... but that is only my opinion.
EDiT: Quit getting in the way of evolution.
<i>And I don't mean to be harsh but seeing as though this thread is sitting in the </i><b>Public Beta Discussion Forums</b><i> you would think ideas, observations, and suggetions would find a home to brew here? And damn, your attitude really annoys me. Again I don't mean to be harsh but I like to be direct.</i>
Hives and RT's give a place for stuff to happen. Aliens = quickly moving around force with stationary buildings, marines = relitivally slow moving around force with relocation abilities.
Without hives, you don't have the defense of hives, and thus, no fights for location. The entire game would be a game of getting the enemy resource towers, no major conflicts in hive areas.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fantasmo+Mar 14 2004, 09:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fantasmo @ Mar 14 2004, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Mar 11 2004, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Mar 11 2004, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 11 2004, 01:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 200 bux he's not going to change anything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then just say it then;
<b>"Flayra doesn't care what you think."</b>
Don't play your silly little snobby games and be a man and tell us straight and to our face:
<b>"Your ideas are not welcome here."</b>
If that is what you think you are free to express it so don't bog down this thread with your petty attitude, say it once bluntly and leave.
I wanted BHing* removed, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was removed. I wanted to see a pause so marines can no longer jump repeatedly, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was put in.... I have many more examples...
*BHing for speed
It seems to me your opinion is based on attitude and not fact.... but that is only my opinion.
EDiT: Quit getting in the way of evolution.
<i>And I don't mean to be harsh but seeing as though this thread is sitting in the </i><b>Public Beta Discussion Forums</b><i> you would think ideas, observations, and suggetions would find a home to brew here? And damn, your attitude really annoys me. Again I don't mean to be harsh but I like to be direct.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For using some nice and pretty text, one would think that you carry a nice understanding with it.
The truth is, saying "200 bux he's not going to change anything" is one of sadness/apathy, because I know how Flay works and it's his game, it's his vision, and as far as he's concerned NS already has a working model. What we may consider to be more strategic is nothing more an oppinion of game theory.
If I wanted to say that your idea's sucked I would. End of story. I do not dress up my words.
Next, I will say that your little comparison to how everyone got BH'ing removed is nothing compared to the change people are calling on for chambers in this thread.
Okey, heres a thought. Been jammed in my head for awhile, sounds abit powerfull i might say but hey, its an idea anyhows, feel free to bash it.
Lets say you build a defence chamber somewhere.. Lets say that within its radius (as in right now the radius it heals aliens) you get a 1lvl carapace, regeneration, redemption. You build a second one, you get a 2lvl one. 3 chamber and 3 lvl upgrades within the radius.
Same with Movement, you build 1 chamber and you get a 1lvl celerity, silence and adrenaline (just like it gives you energy now). More chambers = more levels.
And with Sencory, you get 1 lvl cloaking, focus, scent. More chambers = more levels.
Now, if this would be how the chambers would work, it would drastically lower how much aliens should have to use their res for a carapace upgrade, everytime they die. But it would require a gorge to build these chambers somewhere where they would be usefull. Combined this with the idea being able to do more than 1 type of chamber per 1 hive could be quite an interesting treat IMHO.
Im sure i left something major out but thats all i cant think of now.. (sorry if someone have already suggested this type of thing earlier.
<b>Forlorn</b> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I wanted to say that your idea's sucked I would. End of story. I do not dress up my words.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Forlorn my comment was directed at Snidely more than anyone else. We have discussed issues with each other before and even though we might not see eye-to-eye on everything I have noticed your particular brand of <i>bluntness</i> when you disagree with something. I expect nothing less. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Forlorn</b> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next, I will say that your little comparison to how everyone got BH'ing removed is nothing compared to the change people are calling on for chambers in this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct, my comparison is not exactly accurate because there is a difference in magnitude of changes we are proposing. For the cases I noted we were lobbying for a particular feature to be changed, these threads have been discussing changes to the gameplay.
However I won't edit my post because the point I wanted to make was;
<b>It doesn't hurt to ask/post/suggest.</b>
At the very worst, Flayra will not make any changes. I think I should clarify that just because I have been actively proposing changes it doesn't mean I hate NS in its' current form. If anything I'm just making suggestions to see if we can take what we currently have to another level.
<b>Forlorn</b> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The truth is, saying "200 bux he's not going to change anything" is one of sadness/apathy, because I know how Flay works and it's his game, it's his vision, and as far as he's concerned NS already has a working model. What we may consider to be more strategic is nothing more an oppinion of game theory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess the advantage of being a vet/playtester is you have more contact with Flay then us. In that case you are one up on us when it comes to knowing exactly how he feels about NS and the current gameplay model. The only thing I can really say is to give those of us without the inside knowledge some hope and just let us make our little suggestions. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You are correct, all we are doing is expressing our opinion on gameplay theory specifically to do with NS. As fans of the game could you expect anything less? We all want the game to be more fun, and there will be many opinions as to what fun is. I don't think it negatively impacts the development of NS by voicing our opinions as long as we don't treat our opinion as fact.
If Flay thinks all this talk is ridiculous and useless and he no longer wants to see these kinds threads on the beta discussion forums anymore, I will respect his space and his request and quit posting threads of this nature. I may not agree with it but I will respect it.
Make e-chambers or hives an upgrade to a resource node. They would continue to harvest resources so aliens aren't nerfed in the economy battle. Or make it so it can only be built within a radius of a res node.
This solves the problem of exploiting the anywhere-building version, because the map maker has specific control over locations. Aliens would have a choice of many different locations but it will still force them to hold multiple rooms to maintain a superior army.
I think marines need some motivation to expand other than simply to stop aliens from doing so.
I would be suprised if this hasnt been discussed before by someone at some point, but what about making res nodes have a limited number of resources? I can't think of ANY rts games off the top of my head where you can get infinite resources in one location.
How about giving aliens a "bacteria chamber" (thats a crappy name but anyway) that functions to put out massively increased numbers of kharaa bacteria in order to interfere with marine nano-tech. What does this chamber do? Well the point is it affects marines or structures within range, and helps aliens break up toughly defended bases. Some possible affects I thought of: - disable welders within range - disable health pack drops within range - do 5 damage per second to marine structures within range (adjust damage to proper balance of course) - slow down turret targeting? including siege? o_O? who knows.
I think that is enough ideas for 1 post so I will stop myself now.
ps: I hope another chamber type is not on the list of things that will never be implented so dont suggest it, I am tired and I dont want to look for that list now.
Comments
Generally, Flayra is <b>not</b> looking for new ideas from the playtesting staff. Time and time again he's stressed that he's more interested in whether something works or not, is fun or not. A suggestion to him to totally revamp the way aliens work will most likely go ignored.
(Flay- I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, this is just my observation of how you handle playtesting.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it happens then oh well, instead of spreading my wrath in some pub server I took the time to think of an idea that I feel would draw a different kind of player into the game, people say that this mod is going to die out, which may or may not be true, but having more players never hurt a mod, only lack of players kill it.
I know this idea will not be implemented, but I wanted to give it a shot anyway.
Something that this E-Chamber could be, however, is a way to allow the Kharaa to build certain upgrade chambers even after they've lost a hive. It is a major pain in the rear end when your DC hive has been blown to bits and you only have 2 DCs left. Maybe there could be a way the E-Chamber could allow the creation of more DCs, or something of the like.
Even if i <i>really</i> like FireWater's 2nd suggestion (E chamber bringing new upgrades and hives bringing weapons/spawn), i doubt Flayra will consider it, as PlagueBearer said. But who knows ...
It will definetely brings NS a step closer to Starcraft, which is a good thing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Why do you even need an 'E' chamber? Why not let aliens build whatever chamber they want anywhere at anytime?
The number of upgrades you can have at once is still dependant on how many hives you have.
Sensory instead should be self cloaking, and give scent of fear for the room that the sense chamber is in.
I support the idea Forlorn re-stated.
This way hive lockdown would be really over, since it would be too costly for marines to hold 4-6 locations on a map. They would have to play offensively, not defensively.
Sensory instead should be self cloaking, and give scent of fear for the room that the sense chamber is in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember, you could just tweak sensory chambers up to something like 12 res or whatever.
Sensory instead should be self cloaking, and give scent of fear for the room that the sense chamber is in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember, you could just tweak sensory chambers up to something like 12 res or whatever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flay tries to go by 5's. (ie. 10, 15)
Both suggestions are decent options in balancing the sensory chamber for the idea. They could even alter the range of the cloaking or it's effectiveness in various ways.
I'm pretty sure sticking to 5's is very low priority.
I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/
I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Did someone suggest a the idea of a buildable hive (which allows spawns) at any location on the map? I think that sounds very interesting and it could be a very dynamic gameplay model... this is my first impression of how I think it could work;
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Basic Concept - <u>Hives Model</b></u>
- Aliens are allowed a maximum of 3 hives.
- The Main Hive (or Mother Hive) cannot be destroyed (like the CC)
- The 2 other hives can be built anywhere on the map (Expandable Hives)
- Evolutions and abilities <b><i>are</i></b> linked to hives*
- Chambers <b><i>are not</i></b> linked to Hives
*<i>I know this is kind of going back to the 1.04 Hive system but bear with me</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Concept - <u>Expandable Hives</b></u>
- Aliens can spawn from expandable hives
- Expandable hives are weaker then the mother hive (slightly slower heal rate and lesser cost?)
- Expandable hives can only be built outside of a min. distance from Mother Hive*
- Expandable hives has a min. space requirement (no hives in hallway/small rooms)
*<i>Cannot have 3 hives healing each other :o</i>
<u><b>Impact?</b></u>
- No predefined hive locations (less predictablility, more strategic options)
- Expandable Hives can be built as a forward base, a resource base in a resource rich area, or to hold strategic areas<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Basic Concept - <u>Unlinking Chambers to Hives</u></b>
- Gorges can build any chamber any time
- Aliens will only be allowed to get 1-of-3 chamber upgrades per hive (2 hives: 2-of-3 upgrades / 3 hives: 3-of-3 upgrades)
<b><u>Impact?</u></b>
- Aliens can employ mixed upgrade tactics before 2+ hives
- No chamber order means greater flexability and adaptability<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Basic Concept - <u>Linking Evolutions and Abilities to Hives</u></b>
- 1 Hive: Skulks, Gorges, and Lerks / 2 Hives: Fades / 3 Hives: Onos
- Abilities linked to hives (same as always)
<b><u>Impact?</u></b><i>
- Some people might really be displeased with this suggestion but I think <b>deployable spawn points</b> [i]and</i> <b>chambers unlinked from hives</b> are both significant advances. Evolutions at any hive seems a little overpowered with idea idea (<i>but you tell me, think it would work with evos unlinked to hives?</i>) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My initial impression of this system is that it is a compromise between completely doing away a system with a 3 Hive Structure and giving aliens more tactical and strategic flexibility.
I think the main impact of deployable hive system as opposed to the current hive system is that the aliens are now in control of what territory they want to take. In all the other versions the territory aliens <b><i>required</i></b> is predefined by the map. By allowing aliens to pick where they want a 2nd/3rd spawn area (balanced by the marine ability to relocate ips or to build forward bases?), this drastically alters the marine approach to wiping the aliens out. Things change when you don't know the enemy can come from 1-of-3 places.
This suggestion is by no means perfect and as always feel free to open up.
The gameplay I envision is a fight for resources where mini-hives and tfac/sieges/turrets are built, fought over and destroyed in the struggle for terrritory, resources, and ultimately, access to each others MS. (They both know where each others MS is, but where are the PGs and mini-hives?) Major tweaks required? Probably. Costs would have to be adjusted.
Use your imagination if you see something in it, tell me what you think. Whomever suggested it, I don't quite recall, I think it is a fair coimpromise of ideas with interesting strategic possibilities.
I think it preserves the action in the FPS while expanding strategic depth in the RTS.
Discussibate. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then just say it then;
<b>"Flayra doesn't care what you think."</b>
Don't play your silly little snobby games and be a man and tell us straight and to our face:
<b>"Your ideas are not welcome here."</b>
If that is what you think you are free to express it so don't bog down this thread with your petty attitude, say it once bluntly and leave.
I wanted BHing* removed, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was removed. I wanted to see a pause so marines can no longer jump repeatedly, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was put in.... I have many more examples...
*BHing for speed
It seems to me your opinion is based on attitude and not fact.... but that is only my opinion.
EDiT: Quit getting in the way of evolution.
<i>And I don't mean to be harsh but seeing as though this thread is sitting in the </i><b>Public Beta Discussion Forums</b><i> you would think ideas, observations, and suggetions would find a home to brew here? And damn, your attitude really annoys me. Again I don't mean to be harsh but I like to be direct.</i>
Without hives, you don't have the defense of hives, and thus, no fights for location. The entire game would be a game of getting the enemy resource towers, no major conflicts in hive areas.
I know that if I ever made a mod, I wouldn't listen to a bunch of strangers who start frothing over whether marines should be able to jump or not. :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then just say it then;
<b>"Flayra doesn't care what you think."</b>
Don't play your silly little snobby games and be a man and tell us straight and to our face:
<b>"Your ideas are not welcome here."</b>
If that is what you think you are free to express it so don't bog down this thread with your petty attitude, say it once bluntly and leave.
I wanted BHing* removed, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was removed. I wanted to see a pause so marines can no longer jump repeatedly, (along with <i>many</i> others) expressed it on the forums, and it was put in.... I have many more examples...
*BHing for speed
It seems to me your opinion is based on attitude and not fact.... but that is only my opinion.
EDiT: Quit getting in the way of evolution.
<i>And I don't mean to be harsh but seeing as though this thread is sitting in the </i><b>Public Beta Discussion Forums</b><i> you would think ideas, observations, and suggetions would find a home to brew here? And damn, your attitude really annoys me. Again I don't mean to be harsh but I like to be direct.</i> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For using some nice and pretty text, one would think that you carry a nice understanding with it.
The truth is, saying "200 bux he's not going to change anything" is one of sadness/apathy, because I know how Flay works and it's his game, it's his vision, and as far as he's concerned NS already has a working model. What we may consider to be more strategic is nothing more an oppinion of game theory.
If I wanted to say that your idea's sucked I would. End of story. I do not dress up my words.
Next, I will say that your little comparison to how everyone got BH'ing removed is nothing compared to the change people are calling on for chambers in this thread.
Lets say you build a defence chamber somewhere.. Lets say that within its radius (as in right now the radius it heals aliens) you get a 1lvl carapace, regeneration, redemption. You build a second one, you get a 2lvl one. 3 chamber and 3 lvl upgrades within the radius.
Same with Movement, you build 1 chamber and you get a 1lvl celerity, silence and adrenaline (just like it gives you energy now). More chambers = more levels.
And with Sencory, you get 1 lvl cloaking, focus, scent. More chambers = more levels.
Now, if this would be how the chambers would work, it would drastically lower how much aliens should have to use their res for a carapace upgrade, everytime they die. But it would require a gorge to build these chambers somewhere where they would be usefull. Combined this with the idea being able to do more than 1 type of chamber per 1 hive could be quite an interesting treat IMHO.
Im sure i left something major out but thats all i cant think of now.. (sorry if someone have already suggested this type of thing earlier.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I wanted to say that your idea's sucked I would. End of story. I do not dress up my words.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry Forlorn my comment was directed at Snidely more than anyone else. We have discussed issues with each other before and even though we might not see eye-to-eye on everything I have noticed your particular brand of <i>bluntness</i> when you disagree with something. I expect nothing less. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Forlorn</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next, I will say that your little comparison to how everyone got BH'ing removed is nothing compared to the change people are calling on for chambers in this thread. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct, my comparison is not exactly accurate because there is a difference in magnitude of changes we are proposing. For the cases I noted we were lobbying for a particular feature to be changed, these threads have been discussing changes to the gameplay.
However I won't edit my post because the point I wanted to make was;
<b>It doesn't hurt to ask/post/suggest.</b>
At the very worst, Flayra will not make any changes. I think I should clarify that just because I have been actively proposing changes it doesn't mean I hate NS in its' current form. If anything I'm just making suggestions to see if we can take what we currently have to another level.
<b>Forlorn</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The truth is, saying "200 bux he's not going to change anything" is one of sadness/apathy, because I know how Flay works and it's his game, it's his vision, and as far as he's concerned NS already has a working model. What we may consider to be more strategic is nothing more an oppinion of game theory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess the advantage of being a vet/playtester is you have more contact with Flay then us. In that case you are one up on us when it comes to knowing exactly how he feels about NS and the current gameplay model. The only thing I can really say is to give those of us without the inside knowledge some hope and just let us make our little suggestions. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You are correct, all we are doing is expressing our opinion on gameplay theory specifically to do with NS. As fans of the game could you expect anything less? We all want the game to be more fun, and there will be many opinions as to what fun is. I don't think it negatively impacts the development of NS by voicing our opinions as long as we don't treat our opinion as fact.
If Flay thinks all this talk is ridiculous and useless and he no longer wants to see these kinds threads on the beta discussion forums anymore, I will respect his space and his request and quit posting threads of this nature. I may not agree with it but I will respect it.
This solves the problem of exploiting the anywhere-building version, because the map maker has specific control over locations. Aliens would have a choice of many different locations but it will still force them to hold multiple rooms to maintain a superior army.
I think marines need some motivation to expand other than simply to stop aliens from doing so.
I would be suprised if this hasnt been discussed before by someone at some point, but what about making res nodes have a limited number of resources? I can't think of ANY rts games off the top of my head where you can get infinite resources in one location.
How about giving aliens a "bacteria chamber" (thats a crappy name but anyway) that functions to put out massively increased numbers of kharaa bacteria in order to interfere with marine nano-tech. What does this chamber do? Well the point is it affects marines or structures within range, and helps aliens break up toughly defended bases. Some possible affects I thought of:
- disable welders within range
- disable health pack drops within range
- do 5 damage per second to marine structures within range (adjust damage to proper balance of course)
- slow down turret targeting? including siege? o_O? who knows.
I think that is enough ideas for 1 post so I will stop myself now.
ps: I hope another chamber type is not on the list of things that will never be implented so dont suggest it, I am tired and I dont want to look for that list now.