Using The Fade
Deific
Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24689Members
Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24689Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Tips and hints on fading</div> I decided to put up some neat hints on how to be a successful fade -> (I've been reading the forum pretty scarcely, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone)
1. Stay alive: Doesn't this feel like saying the obvious? I mean a dead fade is a useless fade right? Still this seems to be the hardest part. Let's think about this for a moment. Fade costs 50 res + with the alien res system getting another with 2 or 3 res is going to take a LOOONG time. On the other hand lmg marines cost nothing. So if you blink in to a marinegroup take out 3 marines then let the 4th kill you, it might look nice on the kill list but was eventually useless. As a fade you CAN'T complain to your team "Why didn't I have backup" Fade stays alive no matter what.
2. Hunt marines: With this I mean that fade should be constantly moving around the whole map looking for lone marines or marine pairs to kill. If you find marine RT signal a skulk to come eat it and move on. If not possible then you can slash it yourself, but it takes longer for a fade to kill RT then it does for a single skulk. And fade should always be looking for those under attack signals and always go there to help a friend in need (as in easy marines with empty clips) <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
3. Keep an eye on your armor: Always, when you don't, you die, simple. When your armor reaches 0 you are vulnerable, extremely, on my experience even an lmg marine can shoot you down then. So BEFORE armor reaches zero -> retreat, go to hive or to some vent to regenerate. Remember, whenever you attack with less then 40 armor or so you take a risk of getting killed.(When attacking a lone marine that is, attacking groups of marines without armor is simply stupid) <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
4. a: 1 Hive: You usually (hopefully) take a DC on the first hive, but most of these tactics work with other chambers as well. 2 possible choices really here, carafade or regefade. I prefer regefade, because it allows me to continually harass marines, go healing, attack, heal... But if you haven't played with the fade a'lot I suggest carapace, that way, you stay alive longer. On the downside you have to back to hive everytime someone shoots you(or near DC or some friendly gorge <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
b: 2 Hives: At this point you should have DC and MC, now I know some of you are saying "But, but, focus fade 0wnz m44n" don't believe them. It is true that with focus you can take down marines more easily, but focus is nothing compared to a celerity fade. You can blink around and around and even skilled players will have a hard time hitting you + you can escape easily if you just keep looking at your armor as I advised. Adrenaline is another option and some fades prefer it so that they don't have to constantly keep watch on their energy, but I find that the increased speed of celerity is much more important
I'm not saying much about 3 hives because at that point the game is usually solved and there many tactics you can employ then including acidrocket + adre or cele + focus
5.Fade acting as decoy: AKA the teamplaying fade: This is very effective against large groups of marines, the fade blinks from one side to another and takes the bullets from the marines while few skulks wait around the corner and few seconds later after the fade has entered the fray and everybody's aiming at him the skulks pounce at them behind the corner and chew them to pieces. Still remember that a skulk does more damage then a fade?
6. Fighting with fade: In the end it all comes to taking those pesky marines down. There has been a'lot of conversation about the blink + swipe and yes, it is an essential skill in fading, but you don't become a great fade just by learning how to do it. Taking down lone marines with fade is easy, just make sure they really are alone before taking them on. The harder part comes when there are 2 or more marines in a group. At that point the fade should really start thinking, what upgrades do they have? Are there any shotties or hmgs with them? So first just blink past them (Or if you get them by surprise, when blinking from rear for example then you should attack the marine on the rear, but always expect that he might turn around and blast you with and sg, so be ready to blink out as fast as you blinked in.). If it seems they just shoot you without any effect aka. not hitting anything, then let them waste their ammo clips and then move for the kill, hopefully they wipe their pistols out, and if you have even some basic evasive manouvers they won't be able to kill you. Because the basic reflex for any marine, when both clips are is to pull out a knife. then you can blink a little farter and regenerate, if the marine THEN starts reloading, just blink back at him and finish it.
7.Final hints: Eventually it will happen, even though you thought there was only 1 lmg guy you blink in the middle of an sg rush. You have about 0.5 seconds to act before they grind you into pieces. This is where I've found that the best reflex to get is to blink, up. Blink up and then to any direction you know is safe. For some reason people hit easily to horizontal movement, but when you blink up and then to some direction, you make it much harder for them to hit you. This brings us to our final tip. This is why good fades don't get killed: ALWAYS HAVE AN ESCAPE ROUTE. I cannot stress this enough, when you attack a marinesquad loose your armor, then blink away, only to find an sg marine behind the corner you were sure was safe with your energy depleted and armor whittled down to zero. There is nothing you can do, the mistake had allready been made.
-Whew, this was like my first post. I'm sure there must be some typos in it and you are free to disagree with me or make your own additions to it.
1. Stay alive: Doesn't this feel like saying the obvious? I mean a dead fade is a useless fade right? Still this seems to be the hardest part. Let's think about this for a moment. Fade costs 50 res + with the alien res system getting another with 2 or 3 res is going to take a LOOONG time. On the other hand lmg marines cost nothing. So if you blink in to a marinegroup take out 3 marines then let the 4th kill you, it might look nice on the kill list but was eventually useless. As a fade you CAN'T complain to your team "Why didn't I have backup" Fade stays alive no matter what.
2. Hunt marines: With this I mean that fade should be constantly moving around the whole map looking for lone marines or marine pairs to kill. If you find marine RT signal a skulk to come eat it and move on. If not possible then you can slash it yourself, but it takes longer for a fade to kill RT then it does for a single skulk. And fade should always be looking for those under attack signals and always go there to help a friend in need (as in easy marines with empty clips) <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
3. Keep an eye on your armor: Always, when you don't, you die, simple. When your armor reaches 0 you are vulnerable, extremely, on my experience even an lmg marine can shoot you down then. So BEFORE armor reaches zero -> retreat, go to hive or to some vent to regenerate. Remember, whenever you attack with less then 40 armor or so you take a risk of getting killed.(When attacking a lone marine that is, attacking groups of marines without armor is simply stupid) <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
4. a: 1 Hive: You usually (hopefully) take a DC on the first hive, but most of these tactics work with other chambers as well. 2 possible choices really here, carafade or regefade. I prefer regefade, because it allows me to continually harass marines, go healing, attack, heal... But if you haven't played with the fade a'lot I suggest carapace, that way, you stay alive longer. On the downside you have to back to hive everytime someone shoots you(or near DC or some friendly gorge <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
b: 2 Hives: At this point you should have DC and MC, now I know some of you are saying "But, but, focus fade 0wnz m44n" don't believe them. It is true that with focus you can take down marines more easily, but focus is nothing compared to a celerity fade. You can blink around and around and even skilled players will have a hard time hitting you + you can escape easily if you just keep looking at your armor as I advised. Adrenaline is another option and some fades prefer it so that they don't have to constantly keep watch on their energy, but I find that the increased speed of celerity is much more important
I'm not saying much about 3 hives because at that point the game is usually solved and there many tactics you can employ then including acidrocket + adre or cele + focus
5.Fade acting as decoy: AKA the teamplaying fade: This is very effective against large groups of marines, the fade blinks from one side to another and takes the bullets from the marines while few skulks wait around the corner and few seconds later after the fade has entered the fray and everybody's aiming at him the skulks pounce at them behind the corner and chew them to pieces. Still remember that a skulk does more damage then a fade?
6. Fighting with fade: In the end it all comes to taking those pesky marines down. There has been a'lot of conversation about the blink + swipe and yes, it is an essential skill in fading, but you don't become a great fade just by learning how to do it. Taking down lone marines with fade is easy, just make sure they really are alone before taking them on. The harder part comes when there are 2 or more marines in a group. At that point the fade should really start thinking, what upgrades do they have? Are there any shotties or hmgs with them? So first just blink past them (Or if you get them by surprise, when blinking from rear for example then you should attack the marine on the rear, but always expect that he might turn around and blast you with and sg, so be ready to blink out as fast as you blinked in.). If it seems they just shoot you without any effect aka. not hitting anything, then let them waste their ammo clips and then move for the kill, hopefully they wipe their pistols out, and if you have even some basic evasive manouvers they won't be able to kill you. Because the basic reflex for any marine, when both clips are is to pull out a knife. then you can blink a little farter and regenerate, if the marine THEN starts reloading, just blink back at him and finish it.
7.Final hints: Eventually it will happen, even though you thought there was only 1 lmg guy you blink in the middle of an sg rush. You have about 0.5 seconds to act before they grind you into pieces. This is where I've found that the best reflex to get is to blink, up. Blink up and then to any direction you know is safe. For some reason people hit easily to horizontal movement, but when you blink up and then to some direction, you make it much harder for them to hit you. This brings us to our final tip. This is why good fades don't get killed: ALWAYS HAVE AN ESCAPE ROUTE. I cannot stress this enough, when you attack a marinesquad loose your armor, then blink away, only to find an sg marine behind the corner you were sure was safe with your energy depleted and armor whittled down to zero. There is nothing you can do, the mistake had allready been made.
-Whew, this was like my first post. I'm sure there must be some typos in it and you are free to disagree with me or make your own additions to it.
Comments
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hmm...in most cases(on pubs atleast, where most good pub comms elect their RTs), this may not be the best approach, easpecially for early fades(i.e. hive 1 fades). I find that the most effective fades, goes straight after RTs...then look for marines after. You avoid all direct encounters(unless unavoidale), and hunt down every single RT that you can possibly destroy first(i.e. unfortified RTs).
Anyways, running around looking for marines is just asking for it...because in the longrun, its how long you let them hold their RTs that matters. You can keep killing marines over and over....but dont be supprised when that HA train rolls out of nowhere because you were too occupied to completly criple their res flow.
So, to sum up....hunt RTS! not marines!...avoid all direct contect(unless they are in your hive, or your double res, or anything that important).
That quote is so ironic I actually laughed out loud.
That quote is so ironic I actually laughed out loud. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
offtopic...but i'll bite. On clan/tourny play, electrifying rts is virtually useless, however, on pub play, its a totally different story. I've forgotten how many times i've seen seasoned comms come straight off a clan match to command on pub, and have forgotten this(dont need to elect ALL, just 1 or 2)...and get completly smashed by the aliens!
On-topic, Deific: i get what you mean, i just think that its misleading telling fades to "Hunt Marines" as i think Killing RTs should be a higher priority.
Fade slash also drains their energy faster than bite, so it takes you longer to take down RTs than skulks. Again, if you aren't killing marines or at least providing a roadblock, you're a waste of 50 resources.</span>
-calldown
I disagree. A single focus fade, with healing nearby, can keep the entire marine team at bay. You just need to get in single swipes, then blink away. Marines shouldn't have the time to weld eachother, turning them into one hit kills. Celerity doesn't allow the fade to do the same amount of damage because the comm can med faster than the fade can swipe.
So u r saying leave their elctrified RTs alone? LOL
I think Lucky summed it up perfectly:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hunting mairines when marine rts are electrified all over the place is the #1 sign of the <b>inexperienced fade</b>. While fades indeed are better suited for hunting marines then killing rts, killing rts always takes priority early on - otherwise you get outteched in a matter of minutes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The longer you let the opposing team keep their RTs(either aliens or marines), the faster you r allowing them to tech...You can be killing marines all over the map, but very soon you'll start seeing them run around with HMG/GL/Shoties, or even and early HA train or a few JPs.
I disagree. A single focus fade, with healing nearby, can keep the entire marine team at bay. You just need to get in single swipes, then blink away. Marines shouldn't have the time to weld eachother, turning them into one hit kills. Celerity doesn't allow the fade to do the same amount of damage because the comm can med faster than the fade can swipe.
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That is as long as the first armour upgrade is there. At armor lvl 3 focus is redundant.
Focus on the other hand is deadly in combination with well placed sensory chambers as first choice early in game. But this requires a fair amount of teamwork and it usually means that marines will turtle and die a slow death.
you dont need fades then too, skulks will be sufficient.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Fades are for taking down electrified res towers - however, if they're uneleced, why bother? Send a skulk to do it. A fade on constant harrassing detail can make life *much* more difficult for marines, cleaning them out of places before they get set up.
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That is all true, but it should work the other way. Skulks should scout for restowers, and kill them unless electrified. If so, they should parasite and let the fade come for the kill.
It is always faster than a gorge putting some ocs, in early game, and it is a vital target.
Anybody who says fades should not bother killing RTs has the tactical understanding of a piece of brick.
A marine team left alone with 3 of 4 nodes for a certain time will win the game with a big fat HA train setting up a siegebase next to your hive.
A fades with regen or Meta are the only viable midgame option to kill electrified resnodes except a gorge with bilebomb or a early onos.
Resources are the main objective in this game. Res makes the difference between win and loss. You can win without fades or oni, but never without res!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good fades make moving in any number smaller than three impossible, crippling marine expansion by preventing marines from getting to their objectives<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You talk about expansion, but marine expansion happens in early game during a period where hardly any fades will be available.
Early on, the team will try to secure 2 or 3 nodes, and maybe lockdown a hive.
If you want to prevent expansion, you must act in the first few minutes and you will do it as skulk.
The time when fades show up, marines will most possibly have acomplished their first objectives and wait for res to tech up and move for the hives.
At this time they don't expand, they hold their grounds.
Aliens have to prevent them from gaining res. They must cripple their resource income. Thats where the fades come in handy to attack those lone rts and smaller marine outposts.
It is a good tactic to attack rts and wait for the response sent out by the comm btw.
mainly when they are elec'd
This isn't such a hard thing to understant, fade's should kill RTs, BUT whenever there is a skulk nearby and he comes to aid the fade, then the fade should definitely move on to stop the marines from building any new RTs and let the skulk finish the old RT.
And to the question should fade move on to stop the marines if there's something under attack, it depends. As a general rule i think that you should always destroy the RT you start to chop, but you can go and lend the gorge under attack a help and then come to finish the RT. On the other hand, if your teammates are screaming that the hive is going down, I don't think there's any arguments on where the fade should be eh?
Elec RTs are, as I said before, interily different matter and a good fade always kills any elec RT he encounters (But you rarely see elec RTs in games with good players since it costs 30 res and there's much better things you could do with that res since fades can kill the RTs anyhow.).
Now I hope this settles the matter and you don't have to bicker over one sentence anymore <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Electrification of early nodes might seem necessary, but let me explain why it is a useless practice.
Essentially, you pay 45 res for a resource tower. That requires that same resource tower to work for 3 minutes to pay itself off.
By that time, we have fades about ready to take the eleced nodes off.
Without electrifying, you have res to upgrade. If a RT is under attack, just send a marine or two and take care of the problem.
Put pressure on THEIR nodes. That'll take heat off yours.
On the topic of Fade as marine-hunters, it's true that they are much more efficient killers than skulks, but if there is a electrified resource tower; that is your number one priority. Unelectrified resource towers should be killed also; however, as someone else pointed out, if there is a skulk around, let them handle it and move on.
Also, if an alien structure is underattack, I would almost always recommend the Fade assist in the situation. Why? Alien structures are hard to rebuild, because there isn't a single permanent builder for the Aliens. Many alien players are very reluctant to spend their resources to rebuild something. While on the other hand, the commander makes the decision for the entire marine team whether they feel reluctant or not; they have no decision.
I'd disagree with this, unless it happens to fall in close proximity to a hive. If they're attacking a structure - and it's too many for a skulk to handle - then why not simply go to their base? You'd have a good chance of taking out an arms lab or observatory before they got back, and it'd definitely pull them off of whatever they're attacking.
-calldown
-calldown <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was referring to taking out marine resource towers, and I completely forgot to include the element of having the opportunity to cripple the marines. My fault, but the Fade should still consider what is more important. Protecting the second hive, or taking out a building that can be easily rebuilt by the marines?
-calldown
Put pressure on THEIR nodes. That'll take heat off yours. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which, sadly, is not possible in pubs.
Electrification in clan matches is suicide though.
but in pubs,a elec rt will last a long long time untill the rambo fade gets bored
the reason is,any newb can chomp down a regular rt.While with elec it wont be touched untill a fade is there,or 2nd hive is made or bilebomb
What I've found effective is to attack marines/eleced rts, then while my health regens, attack a non eleced rt, or go back to the hive if that's better. Keeps always doing something.
this relates to the idea of the fade being a quick assassin moving all over the map, hitting random spots, then healing a bit - not too much so you don't waste time, and not too little because as said before, armor is incredibly valuable.
Are you serious? I never knew that was actually the case. I do rather well with Fade for a non-clanned bloke, often tying with somewhat mediocre clanners, but I was never aware that crouching did that. Well thats leaves checking the boards with one point, and ignoring them zero. Preciate the info.
PS: I often see experienced (vet) clanners playing marine duck when a fade is in involved in a battle, and it seems to help them a lot. Perhaps somone could tell me when to engage that particular strategy and why it is so effective?
They proabably are fixing this so the fade will change its appearence if the fade ducks but until then for practice I suggest putting +duck on in the console and playing as such. When u get the hang of it take it off and start blinking while holding it manually so when u get close u can take crouch off to walk over to them faster etc.
I love how we have co now to try stuff/practice without worrying about wasting res.
You know, some pubs are actually decent and have great commanders. So just because you're in a clan supposidly means that you're suddenly so much more superior than everything else? This attitude leads to icon arrogance (kekek i'm a vet, look at my yellow medal, i r leeter than yuo). And while vets being leeter than pubbers are usually the case, its not a justified reason to shun all public servers to be "nub". Get over it. Where do you think clanners and vets play when not scrimming or having a match?
You know, some pubs are actually decent and have great commanders. So just because you're in a clan supposidly means that you're suddenly so much more superior than everything else? This attitude leads to icon arrogance (kekek i'm a vet, look at my yellow medal, i r leeter than yuo). And while vets being leeter than pubbers are usually the case, its not a justified reason to shun all public servers to be "nub". Get over it. Where do you think clanners and vets play when not scrimming or having a match? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
besides... eliteists ALWAYS turn off newbies from the game... why make people hate the game you love? SPREAD THE LOVE!!!! <3