<!--QuoteBegin-Emperor awesome+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Emperor awesome)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Clueless. You're all clueless.
I liked Stallone in Rocky, doesn't mean he's a good actor. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to point out, you are the one who is clueless if you don't understand how the movie industry works.
The reason Stallone was good in Rocky, Rambo, and action movies, yet some of his more dramatic ones were horrible, Ex: Farewell, My Lovely, Cannonball!. He can't portray that type of a person, thus he isn't usually casted and he knows it. Any director knows it as well. That is why his list of "dramatic movies" are really small.
Somehow you seem to enjoy trolling posts, especially when you can't seem to say anything nice at all.
I feel sorry, that you feel so jaded as to continually have nothing nice to say. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
That being said, I did watch it last night, and it was ok. Definitely not my favorite one from Cage, but not the worst either.
The reason Stallone isn't cast in certain movies is because he isn't actually a good actor, and can only appear in roles that match his scope of self-portrayl. He was good in Rocky because he <i>wrote</i> Rocky, with himself as Balboa. In one scene he was so worried about screwing up the emotion that he got hammered before doing it -- that's not acting. If you can't appreciate that, you know nothing about acting. Which I'm beginning to suspect, forgive me for my jaded trolling! I like how everything is trolling simply because I don't let people who are wrong continue believing it.
Acting, <i>real acting</i>, is Dustin Hoffman. You can't tell the actor behind the role. The actor is a blank canvas and they become the role, while bringing something to it, to make it come to life, no matter what the requirements. That's acting, not being cast as action heroes because you have no talent or flexibility in your appearance.
And again, this 'jaded/trolling' accusations are just a cover up because you know absolutely nothing about acting and want to engage in the logical fallacy of an Ad Hominem argument. Stop trying to weaken my position by lowering my credibility to a 'jaded troll', it isn't going to work primarily because I'm not dumb enough to let it go unmentioned, and also because I happen to be <i>right</i>.
emperor_awesome: People don't appreciate it when you waltz into threads and call them stupid. It's a shame, because you have some genuinely good points to make in your posts, but you are not going to convince anybody of anything if you call them clueless. So, instead of insulting the other posters, make your points and state your reasons, and if you still feel the need for silly invectives, take it outside the forum, or accept that people will call you a troll and your ideas will go unappreciated.
On-topic: Many actors are restricted to the sorts of roles in which they have had success in the past. It's unfair to them, and a shame for the viewers, that they often don't get the chance to branch out of their established success. Expanding worked well for Jim Carey, Robin Williams, and Will Ferrel, but, apparently, not for ol' Cage. I don't have any acting experience myself, but for the sake of constructive discussion, does anybody think that, say, comedy acting and drama acting are different skills? I'm inclined to think that no matter how well an actor is able to become a character, the acting will still reflect in one way or another his/her worldview.
<!--quoteo(post=1608445:date=Feb 22 2007, 09:44 AM:name=Shzar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shzar @ Feb 22 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]1608445[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> emperor_awesome: People don't appreciate it when you waltz into threads and call them stupid. It's a shame, because you have some genuinely good points to make in your posts, but you are not going to convince anybody of anything if you call them clueless. So, instead of insulting the other posters, make your points and state your reasons, and if you still feel the need for silly invectives, take it outside the forum, or accept that people will call you a troll and your ideas will go unappreciated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not the honourably christian Prince Myshkin. The first time I express my opinion on a given topic, I express it clearly and impartially. If people argue it with illogical misunderstandings, I chastise them for their idiocy. If people aren't going to learn through listening, they can learn through humility. Plus I feel obliged to comment when people try to criticise me in lieu of an actual counter-argument to my points. I may not be the most accommodating opponent in a debate, but it's a side effect of being right and ignored at the same time.
<!--quoteo(post=1608445:date=Feb 22 2007, 09:44 AM:name=Shzar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shzar @ Feb 22 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]1608445[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On-topic: Many actors are restricted to the sorts of roles in which they have had success in the past. It's unfair to them, and a shame for the viewers, that they often don't get the chance to branch out of their established success. Expanding worked well for Jim Carey, Robin Williams, and Will Ferrel, but, apparently, not for ol' Cage. I don't have any acting experience myself, but for the sake of constructive discussion, does anybody think that, say, comedy acting and drama acting are different skills? I'm inclined to think that no matter how well an actor is able to become a character, the acting will still reflect in one way or another his/her worldview. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comedy and drama are very different, and there are people people who won't touch the other one for fear of screwing it up, which is easy to do. Generally, however, (good) comedy is understood to be the harder artform -- when it comes down to all the nuances, timing and mannerisms (body language, facial expressions, etc), anyway. Unless you're deadpanning it or just churning it out like Friends, in which case the drama aspect would be the harder one, since that comedy relies simply on written content and other sitcom crap.
And yes, an actor is somewhat limited by the scope of his experiences and appreciations. But that's acting, you figure out what sort of emotional group it is and just fake it till you make it. It's the really subtle performances, with unique interpretations [that is, contrary to the audience's expected reaction to a given event or emotion] that are something to be proud of. I can't think of a perfect example right now, but you'll know it when you see it.
<!--quoteo(post=1608425:date=Feb 21 2007, 03:34 PM:name=emperor_awesome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Feb 21 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]1608425[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The reason Stallone isn't cast in certain movies is because he isn't actually a good actor, and can only appear in roles that match his scope of self-portrayl. He was good in Rocky because he <i>wrote</i> Rocky, with himself as Balboa. In one scene he was so worried about screwing up the emotion that he got hammered before doing it -- that's not acting. If you can't appreciate that, you know nothing about acting. Which I'm beginning to suspect, forgive me for my jaded trolling! I like how everything is trolling simply because I don't let people who are wrong continue believing it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Voicing your opinion as fact is trolling. That is why people percieve you as such a negative person, or perhaps worse. Opinion does not equal fact and vice versa.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Acting, <i>real acting</i>, is Dustin Hoffman. You can't tell the actor behind the role. The actor is a blank canvas and they become the role, while bringing something to it, to make it come to life, no matter what the requirements. That's acting, not being cast as action heroes because you have no talent or flexibility in your appearance.
And again, this 'jaded/trolling' accusations are just a cover up because you know absolutely nothing about acting and want to engage in the logical fallacy of an Ad Hominem argument. Stop trying to weaken my position by lowering my credibility to a 'jaded troll', it isn't going to work primarily because I'm not dumb enough to let it go unmentioned, and also because I happen to be <i>right</i>.
Ugh. Internet arguments. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know quite a bit about acting, from personal experience. Really, assuming things about random people online is silly. I am critizing your opinion for I do not believe Hoffman is a decent actor, to be honest I've never liked his work. If I were to list my favourite actors/actresses you would do the same to me, so really its a futile effort.
I also agree with Shzar, many of the people who could be quite good never get a chance to practice and branch out. Jim Carey being one in particular. I happen to love his comedy and dramatic roles, he knows how to do it.
<!--quoteo(post=1608473:date=Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]1608473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Voicing your opinion as fact is trolling. That is why people percieve you as such a negative person, or perhaps worse. Opinion does not equal fact and vice versa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't expressing my opinion as fact. However, it is quantified by logic and reasonable observations rather than personal preference. I don't care if people view me as a negative person, "or perhaps worse(!)". I'd rather be disliked and right than unintelligent and loved by the ignorant masses.
<!--quoteo(post=1608473:date=Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]1608473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know quite a bit about acting, from personal experience. Really, assuming things about random people online is silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I assumed that you didn't know much about acting because everything you've posted thus far would suggest against it.
<!--quoteo(post=1608473:date=Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]1608473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am critizing your opinion for I do not believe Hoffman is a decent actor, to be honest I've never liked his work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depending on what you mean by 'work', this could be another example of personal opinion disallowing impartial observation. I like Dustin Hoffman, but I can appreciate that he is a great actor [I don't know what roles you've seen him in and if you're referring to 'work' as his general acting method, or just the movies you've seen him in, which would be idiotic]. I like Stallone in Rocky, but I can appreciate that he is a terrible actor. I liked Con Air and The Rock and 60 seconds and thought Nicolas Cage was passable in those and more, but he is still a terrible actor so far as actual acting is required. To comment further on your poor phrasing, I've heard good things about the woman who played Queen Elizabeth in that recent movie, but I don't like those kinds of movies, thus I wouldn't like the work by association.
Don't get pissy just because you're wrong. You can express your 'opinion' all you want, but when we're discussing a somewhat-quantifiable level of acting ability, opinion is not a sufficient defence.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
You both are making a mountain out of a molehill, and if memory serves Cyndane is quite an expert in this field, but can she stand up to the relentless logic-assault of emperor_awesome?
Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel.
I think the poor reputation (or at least I perceive it as poor) of emperor_awesome is somewhat unfounded, as I've ususally expressed similar opinions but never really garner the same sort of backlash. My use of subtle language and a tendency towards not purposelly insulting people tends to make my posts somewhat overshadowed by those with far more drama ...heck, no one has ever said "Gecko's completely right" or "Gecko's totally wrong" (...with potentially more coarse language). This is most likely due to the fact that I avoid presenting subjective information as fact in an attempt to maintain fidelity.
Now, the important thing to realize here, is that many actors have followings simply because they look good, have had one (or two) well-fitting roles or because they actually have a good repertoire of acting abilities. Personally I find that Hoffman is a decent actor (vastly different from role to role, filling them properly), but I don't consider him all that spectacular, because the movies he's in tend to be "once every few years" kinds of movies. He's pretty good in Hook, forgettable in Wag the Dog (...and I've never seen the much acclaimed 'Rain Man'). Cage is similar, but many of his roles are sort of identical (usually a 'good guy' who's slightly corrupted (ala 8MM, Snake Eyes, Gone in 60 Seconds).
I think that many of the opinions of acting are actually critiques directed at the poor-quality of movies where the actor portrayed the main role. There are very few truly bad actors in major films (I mean 7th grader-quality actors), and lots of bad screenplays and bad plot points (if you want truly bad acting you've got to look in the B movie range, usually). Russel Crowe garnered a lot of praise for Gladiator due to the fact he was mostly unknown, but now you'll probably find the occasional personality that despises him in that role, because they've associated him with less successful movies, like A Beautiful Mind (...or because he beat up somebody... I forget).
Much like video games there are distinctive forms of acting in genres; you have your FPS, which can then be shifted in to WW2 FPSes, Sci-Fi FPSes, Realism FPSes, etc... and the same is true for acting. While you may not appreciate Adam Sandler inanity, that doesn't mean he's necessarily a bad actor (I would say, it's far easier to label his earlier works as poor acting compared to more recent things, although the earliers tend to be funnier to me). Many people don't like Eddie Murphy-style, Robin Williams-style or even Will Smith-style comedy (...more of an action comedy, I guess). Personally I think Robin Williams is a poor comedian, and in general a majority of his acting in movies just kind of blows (Mrs. Doubtfire, Hook and Jumanji spring to mind) ...despite the fact that I don't think those movies are necessarily terrible. I'm sure someone, somewhere thinks Mrs. Doubtfire is second to none as Williams' best work.
Some movies just suck, and some actors just suck in some movies. Personally I'm bored with Cage's constant 'I'm a tough guy, who's a little beyond the law, but honestly a good guy' routine; something that he managed to bypass with The Rock and, to a lesser extent, Face/Off (...bit of a strange one for an actor's classification if he's technically two people). National Treasure kind of even fits his old mold and I don't mind that movie too much either.
...I think you should all be yelling at the crappiness of Lindsey Lohan or Billy Zane's 'acting' instead, but I guess that's not really up for consideration in a thread that's supposedly devoted to Ghost Rider <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> .
(...and no, I have no idea why I went with comedies when Ghost Rider is apparently an 'action'/'superhero' type movie)
<!--quoteo(post=1608473:date=Feb 21 2007, 04:23 PM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 21 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]1608473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Jim Carey being one in particular. I happen to love his comedy and dramatic roles, he knows how to do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never really been a fan of Jim Carey's comedies. He just seems to be too over the top for my tastes. The Truman Show and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, however, I really enjoyed.
I've never really been a fan of Jim Carey's comedies. He just seems to be too over the top for my tastes. The Truman Show and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, however, I really enjoyed. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you weren't lucky enough to see his comedies when you were still a little kid. Anyone (with a brain) who did, has a special place in their heart for THE CLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
Cage did a wonderful job playing John Travolta's part in Face Off. Imo, his best ever performance. When he attends the party after busting outta jail, sticks with me forever.
<!--quoteo(post=1608474:date=Feb 21 2007, 06:43 PM:name=emperor_awesome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Feb 21 2007, 06:43 PM) [snapback]1608474[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I wasn't expressing my opinion as fact. However, it is quantified by logic and reasonable observations rather than personal preference. I don't care if people view me as a negative person, "or perhaps worse(!)". I'd rather be disliked and right than unintelligent and loved by the ignorant masses. I assumed that you didn't know much about acting because everything you've posted thus far would suggest against it. Depending on what you mean by 'work', this could be another example of personal opinion disallowing impartial observation. I like Dustin Hoffman, but I can appreciate that he is a great actor [I don't know what roles you've seen him in and if you're referring to 'work' as his general acting method, or just the movies you've seen him in, which would be idiotic]. I like Stallone in Rocky, but I can appreciate that he is a terrible actor. I liked Con Air and The Rock and 60 seconds and thought Nicolas Cage was passable in those and more, but he is still a terrible actor so far as actual acting is required. To comment further on your poor phrasing, I've heard good things about the woman who played Queen Elizabeth in that recent movie, but I don't like those kinds of movies, thus I wouldn't like the work by association.
Don't get pissy just because you're wrong. You can express your 'opinion' all you want, but when we're discussing a somewhat-quantifiable level of acting ability, opinion is not a sufficient defence. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yet, that is exactly what you are expressing unless you have some expertise in the field of major hollywood films we are not aware of? I'm leaning towards no at the moment due to your relative location on this planet compared to where most major studios are. Ignoring the fact you clearly lack sufficent evidence of "good acting" to even make a comment if something would be considering "good" or "bad". (Considering we are still discussing opinions)
Opinions on movies are like that of music, there is neither a right or wrong. You can't please everyone all the time. You should know that, if you have spent any quality time outside of school, or even inside of it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You both are making a mountain out of a molehill, and if memory serves Cyndane is quite an expert in this field, but can she stand up to the relentless logic-assault of emperor_awesome?
Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You sir, are silly. Besides someones logic is clearly flawed when baised upon personal inflections rather then bipartisan characteristics.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--quoteo(post=1608637:date=Feb 22 2007, 10:00 PM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 22 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]1608637[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You sir, are silly. Besides someones logic is clearly flawed when baised upon personal inflections rather then bipartisan characteristics. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I am, and this is the off-topic forums.
Helpful chart:
o Off-topic (Here we are now) o Discussions (This is where I'm trying to send you)
Discussion forums are that-a-way | | | V
If you want to discuss "what makes a good actor" you can do it in the appropriate sub-forum D:
This is my off-topic! I want silliness and mittens dammit! *que black mage*
Sounds like the Fantastic Four <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1608637:date=Feb 23 2007, 02:00 PM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 23 2007, 02:00 PM) [snapback]1608637[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yet, that is exactly what you are expressing unless you have some expertise in the field of major hollywood films we are not aware of? I'm leaning towards no at the moment due to your relative location on this planet compared to where most major studios are. Ignoring the fact you clearly lack sufficent evidence of "good acting" to even make a comment if something would be considering "good" or "bad". (Considering we are still discussing opinions)
Opinions on movies are like that of music, there is neither a right or wrong. You can't please everyone all the time. You should know that, if you have spent any quality time outside of school, or even inside of it. You sir, are silly. Besides someones logic is clearly flawed when baised upon personal inflections rather then bipartisan characteristics. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Poor effort. I already wasted my time skimming over your lacklustre "zinger", am I expected to waste even more time coming up with a suitably pathetic retort?
Spend some more time on the internet and stick to the newbies before you try something like this.
<!--quoteo(post=1608543:date=Feb 22 2007, 05:57 AM:name=Tykjen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tykjen @ Feb 22 2007, 05:57 AM) [snapback]1608543[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Cage did a wonderful job playing John Travolta's part in Face Off. Imo, his best ever performance. When he attends the party after busting outta jail, sticks with me forever. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Face off was one of hist best movies. He realy performed well in it. e.g. the scene where he fights in jail and laughs even though he'd rather want to cry.
<!--quoteo(post=1608677:date=Feb 23 2007, 12:39 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Feb 23 2007, 12:39 AM) [snapback]1608677[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yes I am, and this is the off-topic forums.
Helpful chart:
o Off-topic (Here we are now) o Discussions (This is where I'm trying to send you)
Discussion forums are that-a-way | | | V
If you want to discuss "what makes a good actor" you can do it in the appropriate sub-forum D:
This is my off-topic! I want silliness and mittens dammit! *que black mage* <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neon, you are going to play in an NS match tonight, so hop on IRC <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I also refuse to waste my time when someone can't prove his point, other then saying his opinion is "right".
Cage does have some good movies. I liked "Weatherman" of his recent films. I am more looking forward to "Time Share" from him.
Although Jim Carey currently has my attention with his dramatic roles and "Truman Show", "Eternal sunshine of a spotless mind" both were awesome.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1608737:date=Feb 23 2007, 05:35 AM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 23 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]1608737[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Although Jim Carey currently has my attention with his dramatic roles and "Truman Show", "Eternal sunshine of a spotless mind" both were awesome. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They definitely were. I saw Eternal Sunshine with a really hot friend. My chances were good but we never, um.. got down to it. It was pretty romantic though, I guess. :/
<!--quoteo(post=1607766:date=Feb 19 2007, 05:13 AM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Feb 19 2007, 05:13 AM) [snapback]1607766[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What the hell's that even mean? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-You look like a clown in that stupid jacket. --This is a snakeskin jacket! And for me it's a symbol of my individuality and my belief in personal freedom
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
(I didnt read the last 2 pages, im lazy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
Ive never seen the movie, but im not complaining, because i used it for a french class dialog a few days ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
(yes, i live in Quebec, Canada, im forced to learn french)
Last week one commercial said "The number #1 movie in America", yeah that's marketing.
This week one commercial said "<b>The number #1 movie <u>in the World</u> for <u>two whole weeks</u>"</b>, no one is going to believe that.
Maybe random people who never hear anything outside of commercials, but even then, movies advertisement/commercials always use up any chance to quote any good things/reviews said about the movie if possibly.
I went into the movie expecting a typical comic book movie : Cheesy acting, cheesy romance, and cheesy fight scenes all based around a cheesy hero that only existed in my cheesy imagination.
It filled all those roles rather well. It's exactly what I expect from a good comic made movie. That being said, <b>I want his bike.</b>
On the other hand, I DO wish the actors put more emotion into it. The last bits of the movie seemed really forced, as if they were reading from a teleprompter. >_>
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1611133:date=Mar 4 2007, 05:59 AM:name=Chocolate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chocolate @ Mar 4 2007, 05:59 AM) [snapback]1611133[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> (I didnt read the last 2 pages, im lazy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
Ive never seen the movie, but im not complaining, because i used it for a french class dialog a few days ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
(yes, i live in Quebec, Canada, im forced to learn french) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I lived in the West Midlands, England, and I was forced to learn french.
Exactly. The movie lost integrity as a serious movie in the scene where he sells his soul.
It basically went like this.
"I'll take... *pause* your soul. *thunder crackle*" "No." Obviously, he wasn't ready to destroy the integrity yet. "All you need to do is sign this contract and your father will be okay." "Well, fine." I guess that last line sounded like the most logical thing he said.
And it went downhill from there.
I would like to point out here, however, that Roxanne's boobs had a very prominent role in this film. Whoever they were attached to. I can't remember.
And yes, the fighting was awful. I like how Blackheart is totally unperturbed with fighting a flaming-skull leather-wearing monster on a motorcycle, but he is shocked when said monster is not killed by being thrown into some chains. I also like how he pointlessly kills an entire bar. They never even told why. Nor did they explain what the point of the scrolls were.
Well i went to go see it on monday and I thought it was good only for the special effects. Story sucked, corny dialogue (YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWWW), and terrible, terrible acting on Nick's part (he sucks tbh).
I rooted for the bad guys the whole time and hoped that ice dude would freeze his damn skull off and throw it down the well at the end -.-
Oh yes, the chain of doom rocked and so did his bike and super shotgun.
The whole time though I kept thinkin' abuot that youtube vid where that guy falls outta the car tryin to ghost ride the whip oO.
Comments
Clueless. You're all clueless.
I liked Stallone in Rocky, doesn't mean he's a good actor.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to point out, you are the one who is clueless if you don't understand how the movie industry works.
The reason Stallone was good in Rocky, Rambo, and action movies, yet some of his more dramatic ones were horrible, Ex: Farewell, My Lovely, Cannonball!. He can't portray that type of a person, thus he isn't usually casted and he knows it. Any director knows it as well. That is why his list of "dramatic movies" are really small.
Somehow you seem to enjoy trolling posts, especially when you can't seem to say anything nice at all.
I feel sorry, that you feel so jaded as to continually have nothing nice to say. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
That being said, I did watch it last night, and it was ok. Definitely not my favorite one from Cage, but not the worst either.
Acting, <i>real acting</i>, is Dustin Hoffman. You can't tell the actor behind the role. The actor is a blank canvas and they become the role, while bringing something to it, to make it come to life, no matter what the requirements. That's acting, not being cast as action heroes because you have no talent or flexibility in your appearance.
And again, this 'jaded/trolling' accusations are just a cover up because you know absolutely nothing about acting and want to engage in the logical fallacy of an Ad Hominem argument. Stop trying to weaken my position by lowering my credibility to a 'jaded troll', it isn't going to work primarily because I'm not dumb enough to let it go unmentioned, and also because I happen to be <i>right</i>.
Ugh. Internet arguments.
On-topic: Many actors are restricted to the sorts of roles in which they have had success in the past. It's unfair to them, and a shame for the viewers, that they often don't get the chance to branch out of their established success. Expanding worked well for Jim Carey, Robin Williams, and Will Ferrel, but, apparently, not for ol' Cage. I don't have any acting experience myself, but for the sake of constructive discussion, does anybody think that, say, comedy acting and drama acting are different skills? I'm inclined to think that no matter how well an actor is able to become a character, the acting will still reflect in one way or another his/her worldview.
emperor_awesome: People don't appreciate it when you waltz into threads and call them stupid. It's a shame, because you have some genuinely good points to make in your posts, but you are not going to convince anybody of anything if you call them clueless. So, instead of insulting the other posters, make your points and state your reasons, and if you still feel the need for silly invectives, take it outside the forum, or accept that people will call you a troll and your ideas will go unappreciated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not the honourably christian Prince Myshkin. The first time I express my opinion on a given topic, I express it clearly and impartially. If people argue it with illogical misunderstandings, I chastise them for their idiocy. If people aren't going to learn through listening, they can learn through humility. Plus I feel obliged to comment when people try to criticise me in lieu of an actual counter-argument to my points. I may not be the most accommodating opponent in a debate, but it's a side effect of being right and ignored at the same time.
<!--quoteo(post=1608445:date=Feb 22 2007, 09:44 AM:name=Shzar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shzar @ Feb 22 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]1608445[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On-topic: Many actors are restricted to the sorts of roles in which they have had success in the past. It's unfair to them, and a shame for the viewers, that they often don't get the chance to branch out of their established success. Expanding worked well for Jim Carey, Robin Williams, and Will Ferrel, but, apparently, not for ol' Cage. I don't have any acting experience myself, but for the sake of constructive discussion, does anybody think that, say, comedy acting and drama acting are different skills? I'm inclined to think that no matter how well an actor is able to become a character, the acting will still reflect in one way or another his/her worldview.
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Comedy and drama are very different, and there are people people who won't touch the other one for fear of screwing it up, which is easy to do. Generally, however, (good) comedy is understood to be the harder artform -- when it comes down to all the nuances, timing and mannerisms (body language, facial expressions, etc), anyway. Unless you're deadpanning it or just churning it out like Friends, in which case the drama aspect would be the harder one, since that comedy relies simply on written content and other sitcom crap.
And yes, an actor is somewhat limited by the scope of his experiences and appreciations. But that's acting, you figure out what sort of emotional group it is and just fake it till you make it. It's the really subtle performances, with unique interpretations [that is, contrary to the audience's expected reaction to a given event or emotion] that are something to be proud of. I can't think of a perfect example right now, but you'll know it when you see it.
The reason Stallone isn't cast in certain movies is because he isn't actually a good actor, and can only appear in roles that match his scope of self-portrayl. He was good in Rocky because he <i>wrote</i> Rocky, with himself as Balboa. In one scene he was so worried about screwing up the emotion that he got hammered before doing it -- that's not acting. If you can't appreciate that, you know nothing about acting. Which I'm beginning to suspect, forgive me for my jaded trolling! I like how everything is trolling simply because I don't let people who are wrong continue believing it.
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Voicing your opinion as fact is trolling. That is why people percieve you as such a negative person, or perhaps worse. Opinion does not equal fact and vice versa.
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Acting, <i>real acting</i>, is Dustin Hoffman. You can't tell the actor behind the role. The actor is a blank canvas and they become the role, while bringing something to it, to make it come to life, no matter what the requirements. That's acting, not being cast as action heroes because you have no talent or flexibility in your appearance.
And again, this 'jaded/trolling' accusations are just a cover up because you know absolutely nothing about acting and want to engage in the logical fallacy of an Ad Hominem argument. Stop trying to weaken my position by lowering my credibility to a 'jaded troll', it isn't going to work primarily because I'm not dumb enough to let it go unmentioned, and also because I happen to be <i>right</i>.
Ugh. Internet arguments.
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I know quite a bit about acting, from personal experience. Really, assuming things about random people online is silly. I am critizing your opinion for I do not believe Hoffman is a decent actor, to be honest I've never liked his work. If I were to list my favourite actors/actresses you would do the same to me, so really its a futile effort.
I also agree with Shzar, many of the people who could be quite good never get a chance to practice and branch out. Jim Carey being one in particular. I happen to love his comedy and dramatic roles, he knows how to do it.
Voicing your opinion as fact is trolling. That is why people percieve you as such a negative person, or perhaps worse. Opinion does not equal fact and vice versa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't expressing my opinion as fact. However, it is quantified by logic and reasonable observations rather than personal preference. I don't care if people view me as a negative person, "or perhaps worse(!)". I'd rather be disliked and right than unintelligent and loved by the ignorant masses.
<!--quoteo(post=1608473:date=Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]1608473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I know quite a bit about acting, from personal experience. Really, assuming things about random people online is silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I assumed that you didn't know much about acting because everything you've posted thus far would suggest against it.
<!--quoteo(post=1608473:date=Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM:name=Cyndane)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cyndane @ Feb 22 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]1608473[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am critizing your opinion for I do not believe Hoffman is a decent actor, to be honest I've never liked his work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depending on what you mean by 'work', this could be another example of personal opinion disallowing impartial observation. I like Dustin Hoffman, but I can appreciate that he is a great actor [I don't know what roles you've seen him in and if you're referring to 'work' as his general acting method, or just the movies you've seen him in, which would be idiotic]. I like Stallone in Rocky, but I can appreciate that he is a terrible actor. I liked Con Air and The Rock and 60 seconds and thought Nicolas Cage was passable in those and more, but he is still a terrible actor so far as actual acting is required. To comment further on your poor phrasing, I've heard good things about the woman who played Queen Elizabeth in that recent movie, but I don't like those kinds of movies, thus I wouldn't like the work by association.
Don't get pissy just because you're wrong. You can express your 'opinion' all you want, but when we're discussing a somewhat-quantifiable level of acting ability, opinion is not a sufficient defence.
Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel.
Now, the important thing to realize here, is that many actors have followings simply because they look good, have had one (or two) well-fitting roles or because they actually have a good repertoire of acting abilities. Personally I find that Hoffman is a decent actor (vastly different from role to role, filling them properly), but I don't consider him all that spectacular, because the movies he's in tend to be "once every few years" kinds of movies. He's pretty good in Hook, forgettable in Wag the Dog (...and I've never seen the much acclaimed 'Rain Man'). Cage is similar, but many of his roles are sort of identical (usually a 'good guy' who's slightly corrupted (ala 8MM, Snake Eyes, Gone in 60 Seconds).
I think that many of the opinions of acting are actually critiques directed at the poor-quality of movies where the actor portrayed the main role. There are very few truly bad actors in major films (I mean 7th grader-quality actors), and lots of bad screenplays and bad plot points (if you want truly bad acting you've got to look in the B movie range, usually). Russel Crowe garnered a lot of praise for Gladiator due to the fact he was mostly unknown, but now you'll probably find the occasional personality that despises him in that role, because they've associated him with less successful movies, like A Beautiful Mind (...or because he beat up somebody... I forget).
Much like video games there are distinctive forms of acting in genres; you have your FPS, which can then be shifted in to WW2 FPSes, Sci-Fi FPSes, Realism FPSes, etc... and the same is true for acting. While you may not appreciate Adam Sandler inanity, that doesn't mean he's necessarily a bad actor (I would say, it's far easier to label his earlier works as poor acting compared to more recent things, although the earliers tend to be funnier to me). Many people don't like Eddie Murphy-style, Robin Williams-style or even Will Smith-style comedy (...more of an action comedy, I guess). Personally I think Robin Williams is a poor comedian, and in general a majority of his acting in movies just kind of blows (Mrs. Doubtfire, Hook and Jumanji spring to mind) ...despite the fact that I don't think those movies are necessarily terrible. I'm sure someone, somewhere thinks Mrs. Doubtfire is second to none as Williams' best work.
Some movies just suck, and some actors just suck in some movies. Personally I'm bored with Cage's constant 'I'm a tough guy, who's a little beyond the law, but honestly a good guy' routine; something that he managed to bypass with The Rock and, to a lesser extent, Face/Off (...bit of a strange one for an actor's classification if he's technically two people). National Treasure kind of even fits his old mold and I don't mind that movie too much either.
...I think you should all be yelling at the crappiness of Lindsey Lohan or Billy Zane's 'acting' instead, but I guess that's not really up for consideration in a thread that's supposedly devoted to Ghost Rider <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> .
(...and no, I have no idea why I went with comedies when Ghost Rider is apparently an 'action'/'superhero' type movie)
Jim Carey being one in particular. I happen to love his comedy and dramatic roles, he knows how to do it.
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I've never really been a fan of Jim Carey's comedies. He just seems to be too over the top for my tastes. The Truman Show and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, however, I really enjoyed.
I've never really been a fan of Jim Carey's comedies. He just seems to be too over the top for my tastes. The Truman Show and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, however, I really enjoyed. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you weren't lucky enough to see his comedies when you were still a little kid. Anyone (with a brain) who did, has a special place in their heart for THE CLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!
I wasn't expressing my opinion as fact. However, it is quantified by logic and reasonable observations rather than personal preference. I don't care if people view me as a negative person, "or perhaps worse(!)". I'd rather be disliked and right than unintelligent and loved by the ignorant masses.
I assumed that you didn't know much about acting because everything you've posted thus far would suggest against it.
Depending on what you mean by 'work', this could be another example of personal opinion disallowing impartial observation. I like Dustin Hoffman, but I can appreciate that he is a great actor [I don't know what roles you've seen him in and if you're referring to 'work' as his general acting method, or just the movies you've seen him in, which would be idiotic]. I like Stallone in Rocky, but I can appreciate that he is a terrible actor. I liked Con Air and The Rock and 60 seconds and thought Nicolas Cage was passable in those and more, but he is still a terrible actor so far as actual acting is required. To comment further on your poor phrasing, I've heard good things about the woman who played Queen Elizabeth in that recent movie, but I don't like those kinds of movies, thus I wouldn't like the work by association.
Don't get pissy just because you're wrong. You can express your 'opinion' all you want, but when we're discussing a somewhat-quantifiable level of acting ability, opinion is not a sufficient defence.
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Yet, that is exactly what you are expressing unless you have some expertise in the field of major hollywood films we are not aware of? I'm leaning towards no at the moment due to your relative location on this planet compared to where most major studios are. Ignoring the fact you clearly lack sufficent evidence of "good acting" to even make a comment if something would be considering "good" or "bad". (Considering we are still discussing opinions)
Opinions on movies are like that of music, there is neither a right or wrong. You can't please everyone all the time. You should know that, if you have spent any quality time outside of school, or even inside of it.
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You both are making a mountain out of a molehill, and if memory serves Cyndane is quite an expert in this field, but can she stand up to the relentless logic-assault of emperor_awesome?
Tune in next week, same bat-time, same bat-channel. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You sir, are silly. Besides someones logic is clearly flawed when baised upon personal inflections rather then bipartisan characteristics.
You sir, are silly. Besides someones logic is clearly flawed when baised upon personal inflections rather then bipartisan characteristics.
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Yes I am, and this is the off-topic forums.
Helpful chart:
o Off-topic (Here we are now)
o Discussions (This is where I'm trying to send you)
Discussion forums are that-a-way
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If you want to discuss "what makes a good actor" you can do it in the appropriate sub-forum D:
This is my off-topic! I want silliness and mittens dammit! *que black mage*
We fight once! You lose! The End!
Yet, that is exactly what you are expressing unless you have some expertise in the field of major hollywood films we are not aware of? I'm leaning towards no at the moment due to your relative location on this planet compared to where most major studios are. Ignoring the fact you clearly lack sufficent evidence of "good acting" to even make a comment if something would be considering "good" or "bad". (Considering we are still discussing opinions)
Opinions on movies are like that of music, there is neither a right or wrong. You can't please everyone all the time. You should know that, if you have spent any quality time outside of school, or even inside of it.
You sir, are silly. Besides someones logic is clearly flawed when baised upon personal inflections rather then bipartisan characteristics.
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Poor effort. I already wasted my time skimming over your lacklustre "zinger", am I expected to waste even more time coming up with a suitably pathetic retort?
Spend some more time on the internet and stick to the newbies before you try something like this.
hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbop
edit: <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious" target="_blank">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious</a>
Cage did a wonderful job playing John Travolta's part in Face Off. Imo, his best ever performance. When he attends the party after busting outta jail, sticks with me forever.
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Face off was one of hist best movies. He realy performed well in it.
e.g. the scene where he fights in jail and laughs even though he'd rather want to cry.
Yes I am, and this is the off-topic forums.
Helpful chart:
o Off-topic (Here we are now)
o Discussions (This is where I'm trying to send you)
Discussion forums are that-a-way
|
|
|
V
If you want to discuss "what makes a good actor" you can do it in the appropriate sub-forum D:
This is my off-topic! I want silliness and mittens dammit! *que black mage*
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Neon, you are going to play in an NS match tonight, so hop on IRC <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I also refuse to waste my time when someone can't prove his point, other then saying his opinion is "right".
Cage does have some good movies. I liked "Weatherman" of his recent films. I am more looking forward to "Time Share" from him.
Although Jim Carey currently has my attention with his dramatic roles and "Truman Show", "Eternal sunshine of a spotless mind" both were awesome.
They definitely were. I saw Eternal Sunshine with a really hot friend. My chances were good but we never, um.. got down to it. It was pretty romantic though, I guess. :/
What the hell's that even mean?
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWx87-7BUfg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWx87-7BUfg</a>
--This is a snakeskin jacket! And for me it's a symbol of my individuality and my belief in personal freedom
Ive never seen the movie, but im not complaining, because i used it for a french class dialog a few days ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
(yes, i live in Quebec, Canada, im forced to learn french)
Last week one commercial said "The number #1 movie in America", yeah that's marketing.
This week one commercial said "<b>The number #1 movie <u>in the World</u> for <u>two whole weeks</u>"</b>, no one is going to believe that.
Maybe random people who never hear anything outside of commercials, but even then, movies advertisement/commercials always use up any chance to quote any good things/reviews said about the movie if possibly.
Ghost Rider had none.
It filled all those roles rather well. It's exactly what I expect from a good comic made movie. That being said, <b>I want his bike.</b>
On the other hand, I DO wish the actors put more emotion into it. The last bits of the movie seemed really forced, as if they were reading from a teleprompter. >_>
(I didnt read the last 2 pages, im lazy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
Ive never seen the movie, but im not complaining, because i used it for a french class dialog a few days ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
(yes, i live in Quebec, Canada, im forced to learn french)
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I lived in the West Midlands, England, and I was forced to learn french.
I didn't do well, though.
It basically went like this.
"I'll take... *pause* your soul. *thunder crackle*"
"No." Obviously, he wasn't ready to destroy the integrity yet.
"All you need to do is sign this contract and your father will be okay."
"Well, fine." I guess that last line sounded like the most logical thing he said.
And it went downhill from there.
I would like to point out here, however, that Roxanne's boobs had a very prominent role in this film. Whoever they were attached to. I can't remember.
And yes, the fighting was awful. I like how Blackheart is totally unperturbed with fighting a flaming-skull leather-wearing monster on a motorcycle, but he is shocked when said monster is not killed by being thrown into some chains. I also like how he pointlessly kills an entire bar. They never even told why. Nor did they explain what the point of the scrolls were.
I rooted for the bad guys the whole time and hoped that ice dude would freeze his damn skull off and throw it down the well at the end -.-
Oh yes, the chain of doom rocked and so did his bike and super shotgun.
The whole time though I kept thinkin' abuot that youtube vid where that guy falls outta the car tryin to ghost ride the whip oO.