You know there is a difference betwenns 'i'll show you something' and 'i'll rule you all'? So please, stop talking about 'i will learn something' because these players aren't there to SHOW you something.
<!--quoteo(post=1620245:date=Apr 11 2007, 07:59 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Apr 11 2007, 07:59 AM) [snapback]1620245[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If I got to play hockey with Peter Forsberg I'd be thrilled, regardless of how owned I got in the process. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1620331:date=Apr 11 2007, 10:28 PM:name=SEK2000Blackhawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SEK2000Blackhawk @ Apr 11 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]1620331[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You know there is a difference betwenns 'i'll show you something' and 'i'll rule you all'? So please, stop talking about 'i will learn something' because these players aren't there to SHOW you something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never said no to anyone asking me for pointers. The problem is however, that 99,9% of the time, I don't get asked for pointers. I get spammed at in caps locked expletitives until I get sick of it and write hud_saytext 0 in my console.
<!--quoteo(post=1620332:date=Apr 11 2007, 03:32 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Apr 11 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]1620332[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It is what you make it into. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. If it would be one match, that would be fine. But these things happen too much.
<!--quoteo(post=1620356:date=Apr 11 2007, 04:57 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Apr 11 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]1620356[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I've never said no to anyone asking me for pointers. The problem is however, that 99,9% of the time, I don't get asked for pointers. I get spammed at in caps locked expletitives until I get sick of it and write hud_saytext 0 in my console. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And you realy wonder why? Remember, i talk about publics. And if one player is able to spoil the entire game for everyone on the other side, something IS wrong - with the game (rfk?) and/or with the players. And in such a case, this single player spoiling the game for everyone else is the one to blame period.
Ok, to the first question: You can't balance the game around this player. In this case, the players have to be balanced around the game.
The system on the SEK-Servers work with a DB where every single action is transfered into. At first i tried to work with K:D ratio, but that simply failed: In good games, marines could have up to three times more kills without advancing, so the question was what other factor can be used to calculate a players strength. After digging gigabytes of data, i found out that there IS currently something that could be used as a base: RES! So one base is used as WHO destroyed how many res and how many res did he need himself to archive that goal. So a single LMG killing an Onos would be much more worth that the Onos killing the LMG. Ok, sounds logic <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
After that i programmed an analysator to get to the res factor for every life form, for every upgrade, and for every weapon/armor/JP-Combination. This system walked through a database with about 6000 stored classic NS games running longer than 18 minutes. This created the base data. The process is continuous, every month the whole data is re-analyzed including the latest games, so sometimes, some values are corrected to reflect game changes etc. On another side, with every NS version there is a time where this system works in "collect-only" mode to check how changes have 'changed' the game.
Most players are fine with this modification except for some players that got to high in score, and some don't like the checking of the system for lonely walking rines, resource usage, teamwork behavior etc. I admit the rules are hard, but the most players feel good about a system that stops the stacking and forces the players to even the teams.
On another side: the negative aspect of both teams equal strong is that marines are often forced into a position where they have to fortify their positions and hold their lines, with sometimes a game running for another hour without one team really advancing. But that price is ok for me to pay.
I don't see how killing an onos with an LMG is worth more than with a shotgun or a HMG. Only way you could accomplish it is with the help of team mates WITH those weapons, and being lucky enough to get the last shot.
From what you have described it seems ishy at best.
If you think so - your problem. It works - that's all i need to know. You can say 'it sucks' to everything that limits a team or a player, but as long as you have no solution that's way better than the described solution, there's no argument at your hand.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1620331:date=Apr 11 2007, 04:28 PM:name=SEK2000Blackhawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SEK2000Blackhawk @ Apr 11 2007, 04:28 PM) [snapback]1620331[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You know there is a difference betwenns 'i'll show you something' and 'i'll rule you all'? So please, stop talking about 'i will learn something' because these players aren't there to SHOW you something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally taught at least 20 players how to play certain aspects of NS. In these type of threads I always say "Feel free to PM me on these forums or talk to me in #naturalselection on IRC, I'll happily show you how to <insert whatever here>". Most of the people that start threads like this never take me up on my offer. I'm actually a pretty nice fellow when people don't scream at me ingame that I'm a cheating @#(%@#$% that should go @#$@$ my mom or whatever.
i believe quite a bunch of the forum dwellers server admins combat players looping round here are in fact on <b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Fixedsys--><span style="font-family:Fixedsys"><!--/fonto--><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->ACID</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
<!--quoteo(post=1620558:date=Apr 12 2007, 11:15 AM:name=SEK2000Blackhawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SEK2000Blackhawk @ Apr 12 2007, 11:15 AM) [snapback]1620558[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you think so - your problem. It works - that's all i need to know. You can say 'it sucks' to everything that limits a team or a player, but as long as you have no solution that's way better than the described solution, there's no argument at your hand. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could divide the resources up to the players who damage it based on the percentage of its health that they took down.
<!--quoteo(post=1620742:date=Apr 13 2007, 11:19 AM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Apr 13 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]1620742[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You could divide the resources up to the players who damage it based on the percentage of its health that they took down. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said this isn't already done? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
This was only a brief description how it works. It is far more complex than described here, and take a lot more parameters. It is now in development for over two years, and yes: IT works very well in my eyes. Naturally, it HAS flaws, but the advantages are far grater than the disadvantages. But as always: There MIGHT be a better way, but this has to be proven first.
<!--quoteo(post=1620539:date=Apr 12 2007, 09:47 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Apr 12 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]1620539[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't see how killing an onos with an LMG is worth more than with a shotgun or a HMG. Only way you could accomplish it is with the help of team mates WITH those weapons, and being lucky enough to get the last shot.
From what you have described it seems ishy at best. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm willing to bet that the probabilities of the LMG killing, Shotgun Killing, or HMG killing all play out respectively with their expected values. (it is less likely for an LMG to get that final shot than a shotgun or an HMG, therefore award more value to that)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was only a brief description how it works. It is far more complex than described here, and take a lot more parameters. It is now in development for over two years, and yes: IT works very well in my eyes. Naturally, it HAS flaws, but the advantages are far grater than the disadvantages. But as always: There MIGHT be a better way, but this has to be proven first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One major flaw being that it rapes what hitreg your server has in the ear.
20 bullets to kill straight running skulks, now that's what I call reg.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
What the ###### are we even talking about here? Wasn't the point of the first post of this thread that "stacking is a cause of the death of NS?" There seems to be three million separate conclusion proposals being argued here.
Frankly I'm sick of talking about how NS is dieing. I have been presented no solid evidence towards this even occurring. Furthermore I see no evidence at all of stacking being a causal factor, infact I have never seen anyone proposing a cause provide evidence towards it. It's really not even a rational discussion, we all know that we're not going to be playing this old game forever, I don't think that there should be a "reason why" for anyone to stop. You stop because it's not fun any more, and other reason and you're just being stupid. As if someone needs owes you something in order to keep playing their game which you dislike.
That being said. Stacking is a problem. It sucks ######, it makes the game unfun. I regularly leave servers because some jackasses have decided to stack every round for a couple hours. There aren't that many good servers in NS any more. I fully support the right of server owners to ban jackasses who think they are too smart to get caught stacking. No one will miss you. Server owners don't owe you the right to play on their servers, so if you don't want to play in a way that everyone can find fun I hope I won't have to see you around any more.
There is just so high skill difference. Some players are one man armies and others cant do ish about it. When there is only one player like that on the server its same which team he joins because that team will probably win that round anyways. And if you want to avoid that kind of players, dont join servers like wireplay, yoclan (ok there is many good players but skill difference between pro and semipro is HUGE). SEK2000 Server is the best server for you who dont want stacking, and thats because all pro players have bans there. There should be max skill lvl in SEK2000, like 10 because its stupid when you have skill lvl of 30 and other players have skill lvl of 1. The skill scale should be based on logarithm like richter scale.
<!--quoteo(post=1620907:date=Apr 14 2007, 04:10 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Apr 14 2007, 04:10 AM) [snapback]1620907[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Frankly I'm sick of talking about how NS is dieing. I have been presented no solid evidence towards this even occurring. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1620937:date=Apr 14 2007, 08:35 AM:name=Scl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scl @ Apr 14 2007, 08:35 AM) [snapback]1620937[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> SEK2000 Server is the best server for you who dont want stacking, and thats because all pro players have bans there. There should be max skill lvl in SEK2000, like 10 because its stupid when you have skill lvl of 30 and other players have skill lvl of 1. The skill scale should be based on logarithm like richter scale. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> One of the last additions to the strength calculations added logarithm functions to the output. And btw, there are only 40 permanent bans on the servers. Maybe a lot of temp bans, but only 40 permanent. And this with over 36000 ID's registered to the DB.
You wont get baned on the server for your strength. But if you repeatly try to stack on one team where you simply can't join in this moment, the system may take actions against you. And this is by design.
Yeh I know i got banned off there for 3 months because I couldn't understand what the hell the germans were spamming at me, just kept trying to join a team :/
I'd like to see more balanced teams, less stacking, etc.
NS didn't even show scores for a long time. The devs added it way after the initial release. Before that, it was tough to determine where to stack, especially from the ready room. Now it's easy.
I'd like to see more servers that support balanced team skill, but yeah it takes money and dedication.
Note that just because a system for skill balance could exist, doesn't mean that every server has to utilize it. If you want to play with friends on a nice 6v6 clan server with no team-joining rules, so be it. Turn it off.
Right now you can't join a team that has more players. But what if my friend is on that team? Same problem. A skill balance system wouldn't change that.
But it might make a higher percentage of the <b>casual</b> games more interesting. It changes nothing about non-casual games.
<!--quoteo(post=1621038:date=Apr 14 2007, 07:54 PM:name=Laggasaurus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Laggasaurus @ Apr 14 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]1621038[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeh I know i got banned off there for 3 months because I couldn't understand what the hell the germans were spamming at me, just kept trying to join a team :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I had no idea what was going on there either until someone kindly told me in English to join marines. I think f3 was disabled or something.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS didn't even show scores for a long time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There was a time when the Devs claimed it never would. Just like there would never be hand grenades. Never is a funny word.
<!--quoteo(post=1620969:date=Apr 14 2007, 12:50 PM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Apr 14 2007, 12:50 PM) [snapback]1620969[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Swift, here is a thread where Sarisel posts a nice graph.
Maybe I'll run a regression on it later. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Run regressions of every other HL1 mod as well while you're at it. I suspect that you'd find NS is faring pretty averagely. So maybe people should be arguing that HL is dying, not NS? Can it still be Flayra's fault then? The thing is, even if you incontrovertibly establish a regression of population in NS, that doesn't prove that NS is dieing as opposed to simply declining, and it doesn't give you any hint as to the causes. Furthermore what kind of sheepletard decides that they aren't going to play a game any more because it isn't popular enough. It's one thing to be told that NS is dieing, but I've been told several times that I should stop playing NS BECAUSE it's dieing. If the reality of the situation is that NS is simply declining in population because people are finding newer games to play then it's not like there is some magical cure all that is going to fix things anyways. If anything, as a fan of this game a natural regression taking place in this community makes me want to stick it out more then ever.
I can understand someone arguing, "I didn't like this change that was made, for this reason. I don't find the game fun any more and therefore I am not going to play it any more". But it seems that mostly people who should be saying that say "OMG YOU NEWBS, NS IS DIEING!"
This is a silly subject, sure the game might no be perfect, people might quit because they get frustrated or bored with it. Like anything in life, you can't just continue to endlessly revamp life into it, unless the players continually push themselves to keep playing and improve like a sport. The game is old, very old, it has been very succesful in it's time, but I think the decline in players was due to newer/other interesting games taking over, such as WoW, Warcraft 3, CSS and various other large titles. Natural Selection, not getting any publicity really other than through communities and mod websites just cannot compete with these steamrolling profit produce massive games. You got to remember, NS IS FREE, puzl works on NS for FREE. Puzl made you guys an awesome game, along with the rest of the NS team and you got to respect that, think of how much fun the game is and how much fun you've gotten out of it.
This topic is over, it's not what's killing NS, it's what else is overcasting it.
I used to think NS could be "fixed" with some hp changes here, some rfk removal there, but that's not the case. NS is a fine game. It's just that when you have this stacking, that's when things get nasty. So again, I think NS is a great game, it itself is great.
But player distribution is another thing. Just like in high school basketball at lunch and you have all the fat kids on your team, you are bound to lose. But when you see an official basketball game, it's much more exciting because they are pitting their best against another teams best.
But yes, this is something common in all games. But for those who compare this to CS, as puzl says, NS has some elements that make stacking more of a problem. You don't play an easy 5 minutes and leave like CS. Playing NS is a commitment. You pour 30+ minutes in a match; round don't change every 5 minutes as CS does.
So yes, this is a problem, but I'm not pushing any solutions to this. You do see what consequences of stacking when it happens. Some servers like SEKs, run advanced player distribution systems, but there are some faults there.
As the player number dwindles, the growing distance of skill between the fresh pubbies and clanners magnifies. This increases the chances of slanted games.
I post this as an issue to look at, not because I know all the answers. So don't look at the number of players that play NS, but the quality of the games being played. I believe once the latter is improved, we should see a population rise as a result. I apologize if my title threw off you posters.
Comments
If I got to play hockey with Peter Forsberg I'd be thrilled, regardless of how owned I got in the process.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More like WAYNE GRETSKY I AM THE GREAT ONE OF NS
You know there is a difference betwenns 'i'll show you something' and 'i'll rule you all'? So please, stop talking about 'i will learn something' because these players aren't there to SHOW you something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never said no to anyone asking me for pointers. The problem is however, that 99,9% of the time, I don't get asked for pointers. I get spammed at in caps locked expletitives until I get sick of it and write hud_saytext 0 in my console.
It is what you make it into.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. If it would be one match, that would be fine. But these things happen too much.
<!--quoteo(post=1620356:date=Apr 11 2007, 04:57 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Apr 11 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]1620356[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I've never said no to anyone asking me for pointers. The problem is however, that 99,9% of the time, I don't get asked for pointers. I get spammed at in caps locked expletitives until I get sick of it and write hud_saytext 0 in my console.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you realy wonder why? Remember, i talk about publics. And if one player is able to spoil the entire game for everyone on the other side, something IS wrong - with the game (rfk?) and/or with the players. And in such a case, this single player spoiling the game for everyone else is the one to blame period.
If i want a lessen, i ask for it.
Can you go into more depth upon how your system works? Will you explain on what statistics your system measures players upon?
And how do the players on your servers feel about your system?
I can't read German, so I'd like to read it here.
The system on the SEK-Servers work with a DB where every single action is transfered into. At first i tried to work with K:D ratio, but that simply failed: In good games, marines could have up to three times more kills without advancing, so the question was what other factor can be used to calculate a players strength. After digging gigabytes of data, i found out that there IS currently something that could be used as a base: RES!
So one base is used as WHO destroyed how many res and how many res did he need himself to archive that goal. So a single LMG killing an Onos would be much more worth that the Onos killing the LMG. Ok, sounds logic <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
After that i programmed an analysator to get to the res factor for every life form, for every upgrade, and for every weapon/armor/JP-Combination. This system walked through a database with about 6000 stored classic NS games running longer than 18 minutes. This created the base data. The process is continuous, every month the whole data is re-analyzed including the latest games, so sometimes, some values are corrected to reflect game changes etc. On another side, with every NS version there is a time where this system works in "collect-only" mode to check how changes have 'changed' the game.
Most players are fine with this modification except for some players that got to high in score, and some don't like the checking of the system for lonely walking rines, resource usage, teamwork behavior etc. I admit the rules are hard, but the most players feel good about a system that stops the stacking and forces the players to even the teams.
On another side: the negative aspect of both teams equal strong is that marines are often forced into a position where they have to fortify their positions and hold their lines, with sometimes a game running for another hour without one team really advancing. But that price is ok for me to pay.
From what you have described it seems ishy at best.
You know there is a difference betwenns 'i'll show you something' and 'i'll rule you all'? So please, stop talking about 'i will learn something' because these players aren't there to SHOW you something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally taught at least 20 players how to play certain aspects of NS. In these type of threads I always say "Feel free to PM me on these forums or talk to me in #naturalselection on IRC, I'll happily show you how to <insert whatever here>". Most of the people that start threads like this never take me up on my offer. I'm actually a pretty nice fellow when people don't scream at me ingame that I'm a cheating @#(%@#$% that should go @#$@$ my mom or whatever.
Ah why bother. Keep on trucking, Sir.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://pbfcomics.com/archive/PBF189-Keep_on_Truckin.png" target="_blank">http://pbfcomics.com/archive/PBF189-Keep_on_Truckin.png</a>
i believe quite a bunch of the forum dwellers server admins combat players looping round here are in fact on <b><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Fixedsys--><span style="font-family:Fixedsys"><!--/fonto--><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->ACID</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
If you think so - your problem. It works - that's all i need to know. You can say 'it sucks' to everything that limits a team or a player, but as long as you have no solution that's way better than the described solution, there's no argument at your hand.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could divide the resources up to the players who damage it based on the percentage of its health that they took down.
You could divide the resources up to the players who damage it based on the percentage of its health that they took down.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said this isn't already done? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
This was only a brief description how it works. It is far more complex than described here, and take a lot more parameters. It is now in development for over two years, and yes: IT works very well in my eyes. Naturally, it HAS flaws, but the advantages are far grater than the disadvantages. But as always: There MIGHT be a better way, but this has to be proven first.
I don't see how killing an onos with an LMG is worth more than with a shotgun or a HMG. Only way you could accomplish it is with the help of team mates WITH those weapons, and being lucky enough to get the last shot.
From what you have described it seems ishy at best.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm willing to bet that the probabilities of the LMG killing, Shotgun Killing, or HMG killing all play out respectively with their expected values. (it is less likely for an LMG to get that final shot than a shotgun or an HMG, therefore award more value to that)
One major flaw being that it rapes what hitreg your server has in the ear.
20 bullets to kill straight running skulks, now that's what I call reg.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
And cause it's late and i'm bored:
<b><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Tahoma--><span style="font-family:Tahoma"><!--/fonto--><!--coloro:#FF6600--><span style="color:#FF6600"><!--/coloro-->=<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->=<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#CC33CC--><span style="color:#CC33CC"><!--/coloro-->1C3L4ND3D<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->=<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:#FF6600--><span style="color:#FF6600"><!--/coloro-->=<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
Frankly I'm sick of talking about how NS is dieing. I have been presented no solid evidence towards this even occurring. Furthermore I see no evidence at all of stacking being a causal factor, infact I have never seen anyone proposing a cause provide evidence towards it. It's really not even a rational discussion, we all know that we're not going to be playing this old game forever, I don't think that there should be a "reason why" for anyone to stop. You stop because it's not fun any more, and other reason and you're just being stupid. As if someone needs owes you something in order to keep playing their game which you dislike.
That being said. Stacking is a problem. It sucks ######, it makes the game unfun. I regularly leave servers because some jackasses have decided to stack every round for a couple hours. There aren't that many good servers in NS any more. I fully support the right of server owners to ban jackasses who think they are too smart to get caught stacking. No one will miss you. Server owners don't owe you the right to play on their servers, so if you don't want to play in a way that everyone can find fun I hope I won't have to see you around any more.
Frankly I'm sick of talking about how NS is dieing. I have been presented no solid evidence towards this even occurring.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sorry
<a href="http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats&cc=US" target="_blank">http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats&cc=US</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=6935325815206635520&showtopic=100878" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=100878</a>
Maybe I'll run a regression on it later.
SEK2000 Server is the best server for you who dont want stacking, and thats because all pro players have bans there. There should be max skill lvl in SEK2000, like 10 because its stupid when you have skill lvl of 30 and other players have skill lvl of 1. The skill scale should be based on logarithm like richter scale.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the last additions to the strength calculations added logarithm functions to the output. And btw, there are only 40 permanent bans on the servers. Maybe a lot of temp bans, but only 40 permanent. And this with over 36000 ID's registered to the DB.
You wont get baned on the server for your strength. But if you repeatly try to stack on one team where you simply can't join in this moment, the system may take actions against you. And this is by design.
NS didn't even show scores for a long time. The devs added it way after the initial release. Before that, it was tough to determine where to stack, especially from the ready room. Now it's easy.
I'd like to see more servers that support balanced team skill, but yeah it takes money and dedication.
Note that just because a system for skill balance could exist, doesn't mean that every server has to utilize it. If you want to play with friends on a nice 6v6 clan server with no team-joining rules, so be it. Turn it off.
Right now you can't join a team that has more players. But what if my friend is on that team? Same problem. A skill balance system wouldn't change that.
But it might make a higher percentage of the <b>casual</b> games more interesting. It changes nothing about non-casual games.
Yeh I know i got banned off there for 3 months because I couldn't understand what the hell the germans were spamming at me, just kept trying to join a team :/
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Yeah I had no idea what was going on there either until someone kindly told me in English to join marines. I think f3 was disabled or something.
There was a time when the Devs claimed it never would. Just like there would never be hand grenades. Never is a funny word.
Swift, here is a thread where Sarisel posts a nice graph.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=6935325815206635520&showtopic=100878" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=100878</a>
Maybe I'll run a regression on it later.
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Run regressions of every other HL1 mod as well while you're at it. I suspect that you'd find NS is faring pretty averagely. So maybe people should be arguing that HL is dying, not NS? Can it still be Flayra's fault then? The thing is, even if you incontrovertibly establish a regression of population in NS, that doesn't prove that NS is dieing as opposed to simply declining, and it doesn't give you any hint as to the causes. Furthermore what kind of sheepletard decides that they aren't going to play a game any more because it isn't popular enough. It's one thing to be told that NS is dieing, but I've been told several times that I should stop playing NS BECAUSE it's dieing. If the reality of the situation is that NS is simply declining in population because people are finding newer games to play then it's not like there is some magical cure all that is going to fix things anyways. If anything, as a fan of this game a natural regression taking place in this community makes me want to stick it out more then ever.
I can understand someone arguing, "I didn't like this change that was made, for this reason. I don't find the game fun any more and therefore I am not going to play it any more". But it seems that mostly people who should be saying that say "OMG YOU NEWBS, NS IS DIEING!"
This topic is over, it's not what's killing NS, it's what else is overcasting it.
But player distribution is another thing. Just like in high school basketball at lunch and you have all the fat kids on your team, you are bound to lose. But when you see an official basketball game, it's much more exciting because they are pitting their best against another teams best.
But yes, this is something common in all games. But for those who compare this to CS, as puzl says, NS has some elements that make stacking more of a problem. You don't play an easy 5 minutes and leave like CS. Playing NS is a commitment. You pour 30+ minutes in a match; round don't change every 5 minutes as CS does.
So yes, this is a problem, but I'm not pushing any solutions to this. You do see what consequences of stacking when it happens. Some servers like SEKs, run advanced player distribution systems, but there are some faults there.
As the player number dwindles, the growing distance of skill between the fresh pubbies and clanners magnifies. This increases the chances of slanted games.
I post this as an issue to look at, not because I know all the answers. So don't look at the number of players that play NS, but the quality of the games being played. I believe once the latter is improved, we should see a population rise as a result. I apologize if my title threw off you posters.