<!--quoteo(post=1621192:date=Apr 15 2007, 10:51 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 15 2007, 10:51 PM) [snapback]1621192[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I post this as an issue to look at, not because I know all the answers. So don't look at the number of players that play NS, but the quality of the games being played. I believe once the latter is improved, we should see a population rise as a result. I apologize if my title threw off you posters. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This problem by its very nature is impossible for the developers to address. The only solution that could be implemented would be automatic teams, with no option to choose your side.
And I guarantee you that would kill interest far faster than the current situation.
Stacked games have existed in NS since before the first public release. You can't balance players.
<!--quoteo(post=1621192:date=Apr 15 2007, 09:51 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 15 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]1621192[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ISo yes, this is a problem, but I'm not pushing any solutions to this. You do see what consequences of stacking when it happens. Some servers like SEKs, run advanced player distribution systems, but there are some faults there. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the question is: What would you like to give up to prevent this problem"?
The freedom of choice which team to choose? The freedom to join every game in every situation?
I've choosen to limit specific operations on my servers, yes. The price was high at the beginning, but now i can say 'it was woth every pence'. I don't say it's error-free, but at last it's better than anything else on the market.
BlooVillage Fool of UWFJoin Date: 2006-11-09Member: 58497Members
I'll tell you what's killing NS, together with many other reasons the lack of commanders is!
almost 50 % of the games I have played there are no players who can or dare to command. So recently I have for scientific reasons been learning to command on public servers. I follow the biddings of -<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=49321" target="_blank">Obvious Tips For Newer Commanders</a> and can honestly say that I know all the basics and hotkeys. However if I do ONE minor mistake in bigger games, like forgetting MT or just not wanting to drop shotguns to people who run off in the opposite direction of my waypoints, I get ejected.
Example of a game:
The round starts with a guy running into the CC placing a Infantry Portal and a Armory at the worst places possible. Then logging out and saying: We need a commander. I enter and while the other marines are Building or splitting up to capture RTs. After finding the hive and telling the marines, I place a Observatory and Armslab. And research Phasetech and Armor 1. By now some marines have reached the hive in the opposite direction of the first. There I drop an RT to keep them busy until Phasetech is completed. After this you know the drill. I mine the phasegate and send them towards the next empty hive. Some time later i have damage 3, nades, MT and AA. Both hives "Locked Down" and 150 Res which I am planning to siege the last remaining hive. Suddenly a marine says:
Drop shotgun!
I kindly explain to him that I am saving res for a hive and that he should rather build the already dropped Phasegate in the base. He replies me with
Drop Shotgun Noob! look at res!
I choose to ignore his further "Orders". and rather concentrate on dropping Medpack and ammo to the Marines in the field when i suddenly get a vote against me. 1 nanosecond later two newly joined marines vote against me too and I get ejected. 3/3 with 7 players on my team. Now the ejector walks into the command stations and drops shotguns for all my res. He then logg out and says the well know sentence:
We need a commander...
This happens all the time. And it's making the process of learning how to be a good commander really, REALLY difficult. Yeah, Yeah, I've heard it before "Go to one of the many bot servers, learn to command on those". I am sick and tired of commanding myself against bots who are stuck on some god-forgotten EU bot server.
<b>When there are no commanders left who are then to command?</b>
To be fair, if you have 100+ res you probably should be spending it on some weapons. You really don't need 150 res for a seige.
But I do agree that people eject way too easily. You can be totally dominating and close to a victory, but some idiot will start a vote and then others follow like sheep.
I've found the answer to this problem is just to limit yourself to one or two servers. People will get to know you there and won't eject you even if you screw up on a few things. I get voted against fairly often but I can't remember the last time I was actually ejected. Usually just one moron starts the vote because I didn't research the techs in his desired order or didn't give him his desired gun. But when people know you, they will start yelling at him and no one else will vote.
<!--quoteo(post=1621259:date=Apr 16 2007, 08:48 AM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Apr 16 2007, 08:48 AM) [snapback]1621259[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> But I do agree that people eject way too easily. You can be totally dominating and close to a victory, but some idiot will start a vote and then others follow like sheep. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a rule on good servers: Everyone starting to vote the commander need to go comm if the current commander gets ejected. Failing to do so may result in a temporary ban.
So you CAN vote, but if your will succeeds, it is your time of showing the team how good you are <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Yeah that is a good general rule, but I haven't seen it followed very well.
People also need to remember, there are 3 major reasons for a marine loss:
Bad commander Bad team Very good opponent
Rines are quick to blame the comm. While it is often his fault, sometimes it is the rest of the team not following orders or dying every 5 seconds. And sometimes its just that the aliens have a way better team. I never get mad during those loses <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
If it would be only this, it would be perfectly normal <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> You can't win every game, but you shouldn't loose everyone, too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
BlooVillage Fool of UWFJoin Date: 2006-11-09Member: 58497Members
edited April 2007
Have never experienced any of these rules. All games I have been ejected out of, we lost because no one dared to command. I want a 16 player server with MATURE players...
Hmm I recommend IAM clan, but they have 24 players and its almost always filled up to that. I've gotten used to large games there simply because the atmosphere is so good.
<!--quoteo(post=1621299:date=Apr 16 2007, 01:57 PM:name=Bloo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bloo @ Apr 16 2007, 01:57 PM) [snapback]1621299[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Have never experienced any of these rules. All games I have been ejected out of, we lost because no one dared to command. I want a 16 player server with MATURE players...
Where can i purchase these? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think <a href="http://www.tacticalgamer.com/natural-selection/" target="_blank">tactical gamer</a> fits that pretty well. Read the banner at the top of the page.
Try SEK2000, if you think you fit <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Just to let you guys know, the NS population has been going up over the past few months. I regularly check steam statistics to see how many NS people are on and play. The lowest I've seen it be was like 300 players. Now it actually at like 600. I think ever since the site went back up and more communication has been established between the community and the devs, people have the urge to play and get hyped about the upcoming sequel. So does that fit under your definition of "NS is dying"?
People didn't like to play CO, and few months ago, there were nearly only servers playing combat... (at least in Europe)
And why is the number of NSPlayers going up now ? Just because NOW, there are more and more servers playing NS...
I have nothing against combat mode... Only against Superextralevel and xmenu. Combat with max level 10 is super ! Combat with max level 15 is ok ! Combat with max level 50 and xmenu (and sometimes buildmenu...) is really bad...
But it's my opinion... But I'm not really sure it's only mine....
People don't like CO? Maybe, but 2/3 of all servers are running CO right now. And there are many players who prefer CO because they aren't dependent on a commander or their team....
Since classic are more complex than CO, and many new players didn't ever see a good and well balanced round of NS classic, they stay with CO.
<!--quoteo(post=1621490:date=Apr 17 2007, 05:43 PM:name=SEK2000Blackhawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SEK2000Blackhawk @ Apr 17 2007, 05:43 PM) [snapback]1621490[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> many new players didn't ever see a good and well balanced round of NS classic. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry to tell you that, but I haven't already seen a balanced round of CO. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This problem by its very nature is impossible for the developers to address. The only solution that could be implemented would be automatic teams, with no option to choose your side.
And I guarantee you that would kill interest far faster than the current situation.
Stacked games have existed in NS since before the first public release. You can't balance players.
ISo yes, this is a problem, but I'm not pushing any solutions to this. You do see what consequences of stacking when it happens. Some servers like SEKs, run advanced player distribution systems, but there are some faults there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the question is: What would you like to give up to prevent this problem"?
The freedom of choice which team to choose?
The freedom to join every game in every situation?
I've choosen to limit specific operations on my servers, yes. The price was high at the beginning, but now i can say 'it was woth every pence'. I don't say it's error-free, but at last it's better than anything else on the market.
almost 50 % of the games I have played there are no players who can or dare to command. So recently I have for scientific reasons been learning to command on public servers. I follow the biddings of -<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=49321" target="_blank">Obvious Tips For Newer Commanders</a> and can honestly say that I know all the basics and hotkeys. However if I do ONE minor mistake in bigger games, like forgetting MT or just not wanting to drop shotguns to people who run off in the opposite direction of my waypoints, I get ejected.
Example of a game:
The round starts with a guy running into the CC placing a Infantry Portal and a Armory at the worst places possible. Then logging out and saying: We need a commander. I enter and while the other marines are Building or splitting up to capture RTs. After finding the hive and telling the marines, I place a Observatory and Armslab.
And research Phasetech and Armor 1. By now some marines have reached the hive in the opposite direction of the first. There I drop an RT to keep them busy until Phasetech is completed. After this you know the drill. I mine the phasegate and send them towards the next empty hive. Some time later i have damage 3, nades, MT and AA. Both hives "Locked Down" and 150 Res which I am planning to siege the last remaining hive. Suddenly a marine says:
Drop shotgun!
I kindly explain to him that I am saving res for a hive and that he should rather build the already dropped Phasegate in the base. He replies me with
Drop Shotgun Noob! look at res!
I choose to ignore his further "Orders". and rather concentrate on dropping Medpack and ammo to the Marines in the field when i suddenly get a vote against me. 1 nanosecond later two newly joined marines vote against me too and I get ejected. 3/3 with 7 players on my team.
Now the ejector walks into the command stations and drops shotguns for all my res. He then logg out and says the well know sentence:
We need a commander...
This happens all the time. And it's making the process of learning how to be a good commander really, REALLY difficult. Yeah, Yeah, I've heard it before "Go to one of the many bot servers, learn to command on those". I am sick and tired of commanding myself against bots who are stuck on some god-forgotten EU bot server.
<b>When there are no commanders left who are then to command?</b>
To be fair, if you have 100+ res you probably should be spending it on some weapons. You really don't need 150 res for a seige.
But I do agree that people eject way too easily. You can be totally dominating and close to a victory, but some idiot will start a vote and then others follow like sheep.
I've found the answer to this problem is just to limit yourself to one or two servers. People will get to know you there and won't eject you even if you screw up on a few things. I get voted against fairly often but I can't remember the last time I was actually ejected. Usually just one moron starts the vote because I didn't research the techs in his desired order or didn't give him his desired gun. But when people know you, they will start yelling at him and no one else will vote.
But I do agree that people eject way too easily. You can be totally dominating and close to a victory, but some idiot will start a vote and then others follow like sheep.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a rule on good servers: Everyone starting to vote the commander need to go comm if the current commander gets ejected. Failing to do so may result in a temporary ban.
So you CAN vote, but if your will succeeds, it is your time of showing the team how good you are <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
People also need to remember, there are 3 major reasons for a marine loss:
Bad commander
Bad team
Very good opponent
Rines are quick to blame the comm. While it is often his fault, sometimes it is the rest of the team not following orders or dying every 5 seconds. And sometimes its just that the aliens have a way better team. I never get mad during those loses <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
You can't win every game, but you shouldn't loose everyone, too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Where can i purchase these?
Have never experienced any of these rules. All games I have been ejected out of, we lost because no one dared to command. I want a 16 player server with MATURE players...
Where can i purchase these?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think <a href="http://www.tacticalgamer.com/natural-selection/" target="_blank">tactical gamer</a> fits that pretty well. Read the banner at the top of the page.
How about Mature Eur servers and the same requirements as above?
Located in Germany.
<img src="http://www.dbzgtlegacy.com/animatedgifs/16_hand.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
[edit: one animated gif is enough - puzl]
People didn't like to play CO, and few months ago, there were nearly only servers playing combat... (at least in Europe)
And why is the number of NSPlayers going up now ? Just because NOW, there are more and more servers playing NS...
I have nothing against combat mode... Only against Superextralevel and xmenu. Combat with max level 10 is super ! Combat with max level 15 is ok ! Combat with max level 50 and xmenu (and sometimes buildmenu...) is really bad...
But it's my opinion... But I'm not really sure it's only mine....
Since classic are more complex than CO, and many new players didn't ever see a good and well balanced round of NS classic, they stay with CO.
many new players didn't ever see a good and well balanced round of NS classic.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry to tell you that, but I haven't already seen a balanced round of CO. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />