NS is one of a very few games where you can fire on full auto and accomplish something. I like that feel.
Most games using recoil also use locational damage and the ability to kill your target in 1 to 2 bullets if you hit the sweet spot (usually the head). NS targets don't die in 1 or 2 well placed bullets...even the weakest take 9 or more shots to kill, and the strongest take hundreds of rounds to bring down. The ability to effectively fire on full auto is a requirement to combat these things.
Now, that could certainly be changed...but does anyone here really want to see a game where you can head-shot skulks with a single pistol bullet? I'll take the full-auto machine guns thank you very much.
Its not as though you couldn't go full auto when attacking lifeforms. The only change would be going full auto on enemies that *remain* far away or retreating would not be effective. It only adds a little bit of dynamic change to the game which builds more skill for players. Finding that 'sweet spot' in a game when you finally play it long enough feels so satisfying when you get a kill by 'using' it, ala the AK-47 from counterstrike.
thats an interesting point about the cone of attack increasing in diameter haze. it wouldn't necessarily involve a large rethink of strategy, but it could allow for some new elements into the game play such as becoming less accurate while jumping over skulks heads, that is to say lowering marine survivability once the gap is closed.
personally im partial to more a more simple aiming system because it means the balance of the marine centers more on the marine being smart (blocking fades, spreading out for maximum cover, prioritizing targets like skulks, gorges, structures, etc, etc.).
when you add in a more complicated system for the most fundamental part of the game, balance starts from that up. to illustrate this, lets think a moment of a particularly complicated firing system that included recoil, barrel climb, weapon heat and weapon wear (i know this is not on the table here but bear with me please) and the game was balanced from there. if you think that the average person is rubbish with this system and that to ensure people still need to be rewarded for being smart, your your to have to make aliens particularly soft (if a system is complicated to the point where an average of only 1 in 15 shots lands on the enemy, you need to have a skulk die in an average of like 3 bullets so an LMG clip kills an average of 1 skulk). then consider that some people will master this weapon system and be able to land 1/2 bullets and can kill an average of 8 skulks per lmg clip. then you basically have 1 marine that can handle the combat workload of an entire team as well as being the guy to block fades, cover friends, know what hallways to cover, etc.
like i said i know this isn't the system you are proposing, but im just saying that when you add a more complicated weapon system and you balance a ton of factors around that, then your going to have more of a divide between more skilled and less skilled players. i think there should be a divide of course, but think ns currently has more of a divide then i think is appealing to most players (by 'most players' i am referring to myself and several people i used to play ns with)
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1621610:date=Apr 18 2007, 01:37 PM:name=devil-fire)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(devil-fire @ Apr 18 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]1621610[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> thats an interesting point about the cone of attack increasing in diameter haze. it wouldn't necessarily involve a large rethink of strategy, but it could allow for some new elements into the game play such as becoming less accurate while jumping over skulks heads, that is to say lowering marine survivability once the gap is closed.
personally im partial to more a more simple aiming system because it means the balance of the marine centers more on the marine being smart (blocking fades, spreading out for maximum cover, prioritizing targets like skulks, gorges, structures, etc, etc.).
when you add in a more complicated system for the most fundamental part of the game, balance starts from that up. to illustrate this, lets think a moment of a particularly complicated firing system that included recoil, barrel climb, weapon heat and weapon wear (i know this is not on the table here but bear with me please) and the game was balanced from there. if you think that the average person is rubbish with this system and that to ensure people still need to be rewarded for being smart, your your to have to make aliens particularly soft (if a system is complicated to the point where an average of only 1 in 15 shots lands on the enemy, you need to have a skulk die in an average of like 3 bullets so an LMG clip kills an average of 1 skulk). then consider that some people will master this weapon system and be able to land 1/2 bullets and can kill an average of 8 skulks per lmg clip. then you basically have 1 marine that can handle the combat workload of an entire team as well as being the guy to block fades, cover friends, know what hallways to cover, etc. like i said i know this isn't the system you are proposing, but im just saying that when you add a more complicated weapon system and you balance a ton of factors around that, then your going to have more of a divide between more skilled and less skilled players. i think there should be a divide of course, but think ns currently has more of a divide then i think is appealing to most players (by 'most players' i am referring to myself and several people i used to play ns with) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sounds almost like rainbow 6 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
according to the damage calculator in the game manual an ons only takes 59 lvl 3 hmg rounds to take down... not hundreds
but neway my point is that kickback would not really affect ones ability to kill large onos
maybe we are thhinking about this the wrong way.. there should be different sorts of disadvantages for prolonged fire. The hmg overheating seems like an obvious example. Though this is the future so iguess they would think of things to stop that happening
<!--quoteo(post=1621652:date=Apr 18 2007, 10:58 AM:name=wankalot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wankalot @ Apr 18 2007, 10:58 AM) [snapback]1621652[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> according to the damage calculator in the game manual an ons only takes 59 lvl 3 hmg rounds to take down... not hundreds
but neway my point is that kickback would not really affect ones ability to kill large onos
maybe we are thhinking about this the wrong way.. there should be different sorts of disadvantages for prolonged fire. The hmg overheating seems like an obvious example. Though this is the future so iguess they would think of things to stop that happening
meh lol... i have no ideas... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do.
I thought of a kind of compromise for this...Marines that are on land with large weapons will have recoil in the sense that the cone of fire slowly grows larger, as Haze has said. However, small weapons such as the LMG and the pistol will not. This would also give reasons to stay at lower weapons if you didn't want to do so.
However, marines could always have recoil, except for the pistol/knife, if they were climbing ladders, or doing other such actions. Recoil in the air with a JP would make sense as well, or if nothing else, a kind of push back effect.
As for alien recoil as was suggested at first, I kind of picture this in a different sense. If you're an alien and you've just bitten repeatedly and vigorously at a marine while circling him, perhaps you should start to get dizzy. The screen could kind of fog, or have some kind of haze, or maybe slight control disorientation, such as taking an involuntary step to the right / left, could take effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1621652:date=Apr 18 2007, 05:58 AM:name=wankalot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wankalot @ Apr 18 2007, 05:58 AM) [snapback]1621652[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> according to the damage calculator in the game manual an ons only takes 59 lvl 3 hmg rounds to take down... not hundreds <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game manual is long obsolete. I think its left over from version 2 or something?
If you want to use the most powerful bullets available (lvl 3 HMG) against the weakest version of Onos (1 Hive no upgrades), you get 83. But if you use lvl-1 LMG bullets against a Carapaced Onos, you need 346 bullets! Try hitting THAT with recoil!
<!--quoteo(post=1621759:date=Apr 18 2007, 06:59 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Apr 18 2007, 06:59 PM) [snapback]1621759[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The game manual is long obsolete. I think its left over from version 2 or something?
If you want to use the most powerful bullets available (lvl 3 HMG) against the weakest version of Onos (1 Hive no upgrades), you get 83. But if you use lvl-1 LMG bullets against a Carapaced Onos, you need 346 bullets! Try hitting THAT with recoil! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point I was trying to make is that <b>you would see no change in gameplay</b> as far as an enemy charging you goes, <b>because your target is getting larger (IE: getting closer) as your crosshair expands in size.</b> In effect, the ratio of your crosshair to the target mass <b>would not change</b> if an enemy is charging you.
The changes this dynamic crosshair would provide would effect: -Retreating aliens. -Distant, stationary targets.
This only adds a new level of depth to the game. Aliens will be able to toy with the dynamic crosshair and more strategy will be left up to attack patterns. We'll see some interesting new level of skill develop related to the dynamic crosshair - which all this crosshair adds, to be perfectly honest, is another skill that will be pretty fun to hone in natural selection.
<i>If I could further explain what I mean by a dynamic crosshair:</i> Your crosshair remains stationary on the screen, IE, not jumping around everywhere, not kicking your camera angle around - it 'handles' the same. Instead, the four outer points would move away from the center point, creating a larger cone of fire the longer you fire. The longer you do not fire, the more they return to their original state.
Here is a diagram - the inner most circle is our cone of fire now. With dynamic crosshairs implimented, the longer you fired the more the four outer points would move away from the inner most circle to the outer circle. They would not exceed that distance ("that distance" being the outer circle) from the center crosshair no matter how long you fired. Your screen would not jump and jerk as you fired, your crosshair would not 'dance' across the screen - your cone of fire would simply become larger.
Particularly, I'm against movement based recoil for marines. Adding marine recoil for moving or jumping makes marine advancement and taking ground more difficult. If you buff marines to compensate, then aliens have a more difficult time pushing on entrenched marine positions. Creating a difference between moving and staying still only serves to artificially widen the difficulty of advancing, for either team.
<!--quoteo(post=1621859:date=Apr 19 2007, 05:25 AM:name=Slink)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slink @ Apr 19 2007, 05:25 AM) [snapback]1621859[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm against most recoil ideas in NS on principle.
Particularly, I'm against movement based recoil for marines. Adding marine recoil for moving or jumping makes marine advancement and taking ground more difficult. If you buff marines to compensate, then aliens have a more difficult time pushing on entrenched marine positions. Creating a difference between moving and staying still only serves to artificially widen the difficulty of advancing, for either team. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that a bad thing necessarily? It would mean more defensive movements and likely cover fire needed at times, which relies more not less on teamwork. A more defensive game could mean that there is more time to develop strategies and powershift control, no?
@Haze: I didn't misunderstand you at all. I just don't agree. Range-to-target is very non-constant in NS, with aliens moving closer and farther at lightning speed, and you needing shift targets periodically. At current, aliens in melee range are actually <i>harder</i> to hit than at long range. Your idea would reverse that, increasing the ability of marines to defend themselves at melee range, but decreasing their ability to support each other with ranged fire. Automatic fire should not be discouraged by game mechanics.
Now if you wanted a simple static change in cone-of-fire based on kneeling/standing/jumping positions, I could perhaps go for that, but really I'm most happy without any recoil.
After some thought on this topic here's my decision:
vote <b><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, by a slight margin
I'd prefer not to have recoil in NS, however with that vote I'm assuming:<ul><li>to have a varible fire cone based on movement. (ie: think of the Ghost Recon, minus recoil; crouching still and aiming will have high accuracy, doing jumps and crazy backwards hopping spins will have low accuracy, but then again that won't matter with a wide spread close range gun like a shotgun)</li><li>to have the sniper pistol go extinct.</li></ul>
I think the only way recoil would work in ns is if you made the aliens slower. That could be a good thing though to reduce hitbox lag. I dunno though. If there HAS to be recoil, make it controllable, don't make it random like cs. Make it like COD or whatever so your xhair moves but if you keep it on the alien it will hit it.
Personally, I'm quite happy without recoil (as in, your aim drifting upwards as you fire). Recoil makes aiming more difficult, which can make sense when you are fighting against slow moving human targets. Fighting small & fast moving targets is already difficult, and I don't know if the added complexity of recoil is needed.
I'm open to a variable cone of fire based on movement, but again I don't know if it is necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1623042:date=Apr 25 2007, 12:03 PM:name=vortex999)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vortex999 @ Apr 25 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]1623042[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I vote no. Please dont put it in, aliens are hard to hit enough as it is. Topic starter, cant u make a poll or somthing? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only mods can create polls actually. Don't get me started again on why I'm irritated by this inability to create polls... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1619812:date=Apr 9 2007, 08:40 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Apr 9 2007, 08:40 PM) [snapback]1619812[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> With the removal of air control because of the move to the source engine I don't believe that skulks will have much choice in their leaping direction. Eventually it will be straight at you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope it'll never happen, without ability to control in the air you're just dead(especially as a fade), imo don't mess with recoil alien movement and similar stuff to this. I just like how it is now and i'd like to see same thing in ns2.
<!--quoteo(post=1625620:date=May 8 2007, 02:35 AM:name=DRagon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRagon @ May 8 2007, 02:35 AM) [snapback]1625620[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I hope it'll never happen, without ability to control in the air you're just dead(especially as a fade), imo don't mess with recoil alien movement and similar stuff to this. I just like how it is now and i'd like to see same thing in ns2. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't worry, Flayra and Max have complete access to the Source engine's code, and after seeing what's been done with HL1's engine in NS, I have no doubt they'll be able to add in some air control.
Its good we have a forums for NS2 to ramble about even if its the early stages. Someone might actually say something useful&creative. Having a recoil is something we cannot yet discuss in reality though. We dont know about the physics or morvies. Having someone to fix a plugin for ns1 added recoil could be quite HC though >D
SloppyKissesomgawd a furreh!VirginiaJoin Date: 2003-07-05Member: 17942Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1619779:date=Apr 9 2007, 12:00 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reeke @ Apr 9 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]1619779[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Me two. It could open up new upgrade paths for marines to reduce it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
god please no recoil... consistant cone of fire please. Unless you want to change the marine game form a more movement based quake style of play to a more slowly pushing CS style.
Here I thought recoil was already addressed by Natural Selection's story influences: Space and Future Science Fiction - recoil is almost non existant in TSA weapons technology. It also appears that projectiles luckily have a habit of peircing the hard carapaces of Kharaa but not the hull or bulkhead between Marines and the harsh, cold vacuum of space or a deadly planet's atmosphere.
Even then, I would say that has been well "researched" out by TSA. Why even bother with recoil given the "feel" of NS1, anyways? I'm still waiting on TSA researchers to find ways of using the tech of phase gates and tesla "electrified" structures in a weapon - the future seems to lack some seriously sci-fi pimped Marines At The Moment, In My Humble Opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1628850:date=May 24 2007, 05:08 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ May 24 2007, 05:08 AM) [snapback]1628850[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Here I thought recoil was already addressed by Natural Selection's story influences: Space and Future Science Fiction - recoil is almost non existant in TSA weapons technology. It also appears that projectiles luckily have a habit of peircing the hard carapaces of Kharaa but not the hull or bulkhead between Marines and the harsh, cold vacuum of space or a deadly planet's atmosphere.
In other words, No Recoil. Thank you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bullets do have the ability do penetrate a stations hull, but they are disasembled by the nano grid covering the wall before they can cause any damage. This is also the same reason why marines cannot hurt each other with their guns. Unless of course your server has ff set to 1. Then it is a nano-grid malfunction <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
No no, the nanogrid still disassembles the bullets on FF1, its just when you point a shotgun in your buddy's face at point blank range you don't give the nanogrid much time to work, so it can only manage to stop 2/3 of the pellets before they hit. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
Most games using recoil also use locational damage and the ability to kill your target in 1 to 2 bullets if you hit the sweet spot (usually the head). NS targets don't die in 1 or 2 well placed bullets...even the weakest take 9 or more shots to kill, and the strongest take hundreds of rounds to bring down. The ability to effectively fire on full auto is a requirement to combat these things.
Now, that could certainly be changed...but does anyone here really want to see a game where you can head-shot skulks with a single pistol bullet? I'll take the full-auto machine guns thank you very much.
personally im partial to more a more simple aiming system because it means the balance of the marine centers more on the marine being smart (blocking fades, spreading out for maximum cover, prioritizing targets like skulks, gorges, structures, etc, etc.).
when you add in a more complicated system for the most fundamental part of the game, balance starts from that up. to illustrate this, lets think a moment of a particularly complicated firing system that included recoil, barrel climb, weapon heat and weapon wear (i know this is not on the table here but bear with me please) and the game was balanced from there. if you think that the average person is rubbish with this system and that to ensure people still need to be rewarded for being smart, your your to have to make aliens particularly soft (if a system is complicated to the point where an average of only 1 in 15 shots lands on the enemy, you need to have a skulk die in an average of like 3 bullets so an LMG clip kills an average of 1 skulk). then consider that some people will master this weapon system and be able to land 1/2 bullets and can kill an average of 8 skulks per lmg clip. then you basically have 1 marine that can handle the combat workload of an entire team as well as being the guy to block fades, cover friends, know what hallways to cover, etc.
like i said i know this isn't the system you are proposing, but im just saying that when you add a more complicated weapon system and you balance a ton of factors around that, then your going to have more of a divide between more skilled and less skilled players. i think there should be a divide of course, but think ns currently has more of a divide then i think is appealing to most players (by 'most players' i am referring to myself and several people i used to play ns with)
thats an interesting point about the cone of attack increasing in diameter haze. it wouldn't necessarily involve a large rethink of strategy, but it could allow for some new elements into the game play such as becoming less accurate while jumping over skulks heads, that is to say lowering marine survivability once the gap is closed.
personally im partial to more a more simple aiming system because it means the balance of the marine centers more on the marine being smart (blocking fades, spreading out for maximum cover, prioritizing targets like skulks, gorges, structures, etc, etc.).
when you add in a more complicated system for the most fundamental part of the game, balance starts from that up. to illustrate this, lets think a moment of a particularly complicated firing system that included recoil, barrel climb, weapon heat and weapon wear (i know this is not on the table here but bear with me please) and the game was balanced from there. if you think that the average person is rubbish with this system and that to ensure people still need to be rewarded for being smart, your your to have to make aliens particularly soft (if a system is complicated to the point where an average of only 1 in 15 shots lands on the enemy, you need to have a skulk die in an average of like 3 bullets so an LMG clip kills an average of 1 skulk). then consider that some people will master this weapon system and be able to land 1/2 bullets and can kill an average of 8 skulks per lmg clip. then you basically have 1 marine that can handle the combat workload of an entire team as well as being the guy to block fades, cover friends, know what hallways to cover, etc.
like i said i know this isn't the system you are proposing, but im just saying that when you add a more complicated weapon system and you balance a ton of factors around that, then your going to have more of a divide between more skilled and less skilled players. i think there should be a divide of course, but think ns currently has more of a divide then i think is appealing to most players (by 'most players' i am referring to myself and several people i used to play ns with)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sounds almost like rainbow 6 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
but neway my point is that kickback would not really affect ones ability to kill large onos
maybe we are thhinking about this the wrong way.. there should be different sorts of disadvantages for prolonged fire.
The hmg overheating seems like an obvious example. Though this is the future so iguess they would think of things to stop that happening
meh lol... i have no ideas...
according to the damage calculator in the game manual an ons only takes 59 lvl 3 hmg rounds to take down... not hundreds
but neway my point is that kickback would not really affect ones ability to kill large onos
maybe we are thhinking about this the wrong way.. there should be different sorts of disadvantages for prolonged fire.
The hmg overheating seems like an obvious example. Though this is the future so iguess they would think of things to stop that happening
meh lol... i have no ideas...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do.
I thought of a kind of compromise for this...Marines that are on land with large weapons will have recoil in the sense that the cone of fire slowly grows larger, as Haze has said. However, small weapons such as the LMG and the pistol will not. This would also give reasons to stay at lower weapons if you didn't want to do so.
However, marines could always have recoil, except for the pistol/knife, if they were climbing ladders, or doing other such actions. Recoil in the air with a JP would make sense as well, or if nothing else, a kind of push back effect.
As for alien recoil as was suggested at first, I kind of picture this in a different sense. If you're an alien and you've just bitten repeatedly and vigorously at a marine while circling him, perhaps you should start to get dizzy. The screen could kind of fog, or have some kind of haze, or maybe slight control disorientation, such as taking an involuntary step to the right / left, could take effect.
according to the damage calculator in the game manual an ons only takes 59 lvl 3 hmg rounds to take down... not hundreds
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game manual is long obsolete. I think its left over from version 2 or something?
If you want to use the most powerful bullets available (lvl 3 HMG) against the weakest version of Onos (1 Hive no upgrades), you get 83. But if you use lvl-1 LMG bullets against a Carapaced Onos, you need 346 bullets! Try hitting THAT with recoil!
The game manual is long obsolete. I think its left over from version 2 or something?
If you want to use the most powerful bullets available (lvl 3 HMG) against the weakest version of Onos (1 Hive no upgrades), you get 83. But if you use lvl-1 LMG bullets against a Carapaced Onos, you need 346 bullets! Try hitting THAT with recoil!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point I was trying to make is that <b>you would see no change in gameplay</b> as far as an enemy charging you goes, <b>because your target is getting larger (IE: getting closer) as your crosshair expands in size.</b> In effect, the ratio of your crosshair to the target mass <b>would not change</b> if an enemy is charging you.
The changes this dynamic crosshair would provide would effect:
-Retreating aliens.
-Distant, stationary targets.
This only adds a new level of depth to the game. Aliens will be able to toy with the dynamic crosshair and more strategy will be left up to attack patterns. We'll see some interesting new level of skill develop related to the dynamic crosshair - which all this crosshair adds, to be perfectly honest, is another skill that will be pretty fun to hone in natural selection.
<i>If I could further explain what I mean by a dynamic crosshair:</i>
Your crosshair remains stationary on the screen, IE, not jumping around everywhere, not kicking your camera angle around - it 'handles' the same. Instead, the four outer points would move away from the center point, creating a larger cone of fire the longer you fire. The longer you do not fire, the more they return to their original state.
Here is a diagram - the inner most circle is our cone of fire now. With dynamic crosshairs implimented, the longer you fired the more the four outer points would move away from the inner most circle to the outer circle. They would not exceed that distance ("that distance" being the outer circle) from the center crosshair no matter how long you fired. Your screen would not jump and jerk as you fired, your crosshair would not 'dance' across the screen - your cone of fire would simply become larger.
<img src="http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4503/dynamiccrosshairse1.png" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Particularly, I'm against movement based recoil for marines. Adding marine recoil for moving or jumping makes marine advancement and taking ground more difficult. If you buff marines to compensate, then aliens have a more difficult time pushing on entrenched marine positions. Creating a difference between moving and staying still only serves to artificially widen the difficulty of advancing, for either team.
I'm against most recoil ideas in NS on principle.
Particularly, I'm against movement based recoil for marines. Adding marine recoil for moving or jumping makes marine advancement and taking ground more difficult. If you buff marines to compensate, then aliens have a more difficult time pushing on entrenched marine positions. Creating a difference between moving and staying still only serves to artificially widen the difficulty of advancing, for either team.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is that a bad thing necessarily? It would mean more defensive movements and likely cover fire needed at times, which relies more not less on teamwork. A more defensive game could mean that there is more time to develop strategies and powershift control, no?
Now if you wanted a simple static change in cone-of-fire based on kneeling/standing/jumping positions, I could perhaps go for that, but really I'm most happy without any recoil.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><b><i>PLEASE DONT</i></b> <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
seconded
vote <b><!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro-->no<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, by a slight margin
I'd prefer not to have recoil in NS, however with that vote I'm assuming:<ul><li>to have a varible fire cone based on movement. (ie: think of the Ghost Recon, minus recoil; crouching still and aiming will have high accuracy, doing jumps and crazy backwards hopping spins will have low accuracy, but then again that won't matter with a wide spread close range gun like a shotgun)</li><li>to have the sniper pistol go extinct.</li></ul>
I'm open to a variable cone of fire based on movement, but again I don't know if it is necessary.
Topic starter, cant u make a poll or somthing?
I vote no. Please dont put it in, aliens are hard to hit enough as it is.
Topic starter, cant u make a poll or somthing?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only mods can create polls actually. Don't get me started again on why I'm irritated by this inability to create polls... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
With the removal of air control because of the move to the source engine I don't believe that skulks will have much choice in their leaping direction. Eventually it will be straight at you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope it'll never happen, without ability to control in the air you're just dead(especially as a fade), imo don't mess with recoil alien movement and similar stuff to this. I just like how it is now and i'd like to see same thing in ns2.
I hope it'll never happen, without ability to control in the air you're just dead(especially as a fade), imo don't mess with recoil alien movement and similar stuff to this. I just like how it is now and i'd like to see same thing in ns2.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't worry, Flayra and Max have complete access to the Source engine's code, and after seeing what's been done with HL1's engine in NS, I have no doubt they'll be able to add in some air control.
Me two. It could open up new upgrade paths for marines to reduce it.
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for you recoil lovers, go back to CS plxkthx
Even then, I would say that has been well "researched" out by TSA. Why even bother with recoil given the "feel" of NS1, anyways? I'm still waiting on TSA researchers to find ways of using the tech of phase gates and tesla "electrified" structures in a weapon - the future seems to lack some seriously sci-fi pimped Marines At The Moment, In My Humble Opinion.
In other words, No Recoil. Thank you.
Here I thought recoil was already addressed by Natural Selection's story influences: Space and Future Science Fiction - recoil is almost non existant in TSA weapons technology. It also appears that projectiles luckily have a habit of peircing the hard carapaces of Kharaa but not the hull or bulkhead between Marines and the harsh, cold vacuum of space or a deadly planet's atmosphere.
In other words, No Recoil. Thank you.
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Bullets do have the ability do penetrate a stations hull, but they are disasembled by the nano grid covering the wall before they can cause any damage. This is also the same reason why marines cannot hurt each other with their guns. Unless of course your server has ff set to 1. Then it is a nano-grid malfunction <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />