<!--quoteo(post=1634542:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:59 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:59 AM) [snapback]1634542[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yupp. It's always sad to see good demos so happlessly butchered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm really struggling, to determine whether you even watched the same movie I did, or if you're making a very blatant attempt at flamebaiting ... or if you're just an idiot. Help me out here.
<!--quoteo(post=1634549:date=Jun 19 2007, 04:09 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]1634549[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm really struggling, to determine whether you even watched the same movie I did, or if you're making a very blatant attempt at flamebaiting ... or if you're just an idiot. Help me out here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1634549:date=Jun 19 2007, 11:09 AM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]1634549[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm really struggling, to determine whether you even watched the same movie I did, or if you're making a very blatant attempt at flamebaiting ... or if you're just an idiot. Help me out here. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Instead of trying to deflect my criticism as flamebaiting when it is factually accurate and comming off looking like an idiot, just come out and say that you like annoying repetitive noises and MTV style editing and tell me to go elsewhere if I don't. The animosity is really not needed.
Okay lets go through your 'crits' shall we ? <!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The cell shading<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Artistic choice - not a valid criticism. <!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the "music"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personal preference - not a valid criticism. <!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the poor framerate<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 30FPS isn't enough for you? It's NTSC standard, go ###### to them. <!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lack of temporal super sampling<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Errr .... do you want to complain that I only used a 2pass XViD encode aswell? Please be more pedantic. <!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lack of ingame sounds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please explain to me how I'm supposed to record ingame sound when, at the time I made this movie, I didn't own a soundcard which supported stereo mix? Yeah, I thought as much. <!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->makes it almost unwatchable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want to exaggerate a little more? Oh, wait, you already did. Care to link to any of the movies you have edited yourself? I'm not 'deflecting your crits as flamebait' they are <b>not</b> constructive crits, no matter which angle you look at it from. You are flamebaiting.
And you are taking the bait, as usual. Actually it seems like you're often taking baits that aren't even there. Why so bitter? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I'm too cynical for my own good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
When you release a video you expect people to watch it and tell you what they think of it. Personal preferences are valid criticisms.
What you are doing is just confirmation bias; I don't see you rejecting the praise you are getting with contempt as just personal preference.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Artistic choice - not a valid criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Factually accurate account of what the video contains and my opinion of it without dishonesty.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personal preference - not a valid criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Factually accurate account of what the video contains and my opinion of it without dishonesty.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->30FPS isn't enough for you? It's NTSC standard, go ###### to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have the demo files; HL allows you to easily play back the video and save screenshots at say 300 FPS and accumulate 10 for each frame in the video. It looks so much better it's unbelievable and it's pretty common with HL movies.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please explain to me how I'm supposed to record ingame sound when, at the time I made this movie, I didn't own a soundcard which supported stereo mix? Yeah, I thought as much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Have pity on me" is really not a valid rejection of criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You want to exaggerate a little more? Oh, wait, you already did. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not an exaggeration. It gave me a headache watching that and it spoiled the fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Care to link to any of the movies you have edited yourself?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gee, I don't see you asking people who praise your movie to link movies they have made. This is just confirmation bias rearing its ugly head again.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not 'deflecting your crits as flamebait' they are <b>not</b> constructive crits, no matter which angle you look at it from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honest criticism is always constructive. It allows you to poll what a wide variety of people like instead of hiding in a protected bubble of confirmation bias. And I am suggesting ways to 'fix' your movie if you care what I think of it, lose the music, accumulate multiple frames into each, use ingame sounds. And if you don't care what I think of your movie, why are you even arguing with me? Are you so insecure that you cannot have people who dislike your editing?
I honestly don't care whether you like the movie or not. I didn't make the movie to get e-fame, nor to get the warm fuzzy feeling that people like my work. I made the movie because I enjoy editing, that's the one and only reason. Sure, your 'criticisms' would be somewhat useful, if I was aiming to cater to the largest common denominator - I'm not. I also, really don't care if you dislike the artistic style I chose for this video, nor whether or not you like the style of my editing. I really couldn't care less.
Saying "I don't like the music you chose" is not a criticism. Saying "I don't like the music you chose because I feel that it wasn't the kind of music that it is easy to sync to, and the movie suffered as a result" is a criticism. Do you see the difference?
And just to enlighten you about what exactly you are complaining about - it's called frame resampling. It's the process of sampling multiple frames into a single composite frame, and is most commonly used for rapid recams. The fact that I recorded pretty much every single clip in Radial at 150fps (credits sequence was recorded at over 500fps) and resampled it down to 30fps .... that's kinda besides the point though seeing as I disabled resampling when I rendered because it looks like crap in NS. Just remembered that xD
Seriously, you're not being constructive in the least. You're just being a ######.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2007
The simple fact, Soylent_green, is that you're wrong and it's fairly obvious you have very little actual knowledge or experience in making NS movies. Complaining about personal preferences like music selection, is not constructive criticism, it's baloney. If you don't know the difference, you should probably just refrain from even putting your hands on the keyboard.
Since I'm in the mood, I'll take a moment to maybe give you some insight.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When you release a video you expect people to watch it and tell you what they think of it. Personal preferences are valid criticisms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, they aren't. It's impossible to make a movie that pleases everyone, music especially. The only valid criticism is if someone chooses a track that is extremely goofy or out of place (like a Christmas jingle or something), if the video/audio sync is bad because the music is extremely difficult/impossible to sync to the frags or if the track is overused in movies. None of these are the case.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What you are doing is just confirmation bias; I don't see you rejecting the praise you are getting with contempt as just personal preference.
(...)Gee, I don't see you asking people who praise your movie to link movies they have made. This is just confirmation bias rearing its ugly head again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is a big difference between critique and someone saying your movie is good. When someone says they liked your movie/product for whatever reason, they're doing a positive thing, boosting your confidence. There really are no "rules" when giving praise -- it's always a good thing. When you give critique however, it is a negative thing, no matter how constructive. If you want to give it, you'd better have something good to say. Do you? Mostly: no. If you can't handle the critique of your criticism, maybe you shouldn't post it in the first place.
Asking what movies you've made is a bad riposte, I agree, but it does have some validity. Giving praise doesn't require much knowledge or experience about the matter at hand, giving good critique requires that you actually know a lot about what you're talking about -- which you clearly don't.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honest criticism is always constructive.
(...]And if you don't care what I think of your movie, why are you even arguing with me? Are you so insecure that you cannot have people who dislike your editing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it isn't. This time it's just annoying whining, wasting our time.
He's arguing with you because he doesn't have much of a choice. You're cluttering up his release thread and camouflaging complaining as constructive criticism. Him trying to defend himself and his movie shouldn't surprise you, it's the natural (and valid) response.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> (...)lack of temporal super sampling
(...)the poor framerate
(...)lack of ingame sounds <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Temporal Supersampling results in blank screenshots or blurry text (kill messages, crosshair), depending on what card you have, when using the startmovie command. :]
30 FPS is more than the most commonly used 25 FPS. I suppose you don't watch TV either since you can't handle "the poor framerate"? esJ addressed your complaint about resampling (knowing the name of what you're complaining about usually helps) decently. I'd like to add that I personally don't like resampling in first person heavy movies.
esJ's reply to the lack of ingame sounds was terrible. Hardware or software issues is not a valid excuse for making a bad product. Ingame sounds are however not necessarily a good thing. Most of the time, the use of ingame sound is just a crutch for bad movie makers who can't be arsed to sync their audio properly to the video. I much prefer videos without ingame sounds. At the same time, I can understand that some people like movies with ingame sound. As such, I consider it a case of personal preference.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of trying to deflect my criticism as flamebaiting when it is factually accurate and comming off looking like an idiot, just come out and say that you like annoying repetitive noises and MTV style editing and tell me to go elsewhere if I don't. The animosity is really not needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's not critique, that's being a ######. You made an aggressive post and you got an aggressive reply. Get used to it or change your style, stop acting like someone sneezed into your tea without apologizing afterwards.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 08:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Complaining about <b>personal preferences</b> like music selection, is not constructive criticism, it's baloney.
... I'd like to add that I <b>personally</b> don't like resampling in first person heavy movies.
... I much <b>prefer</b> videos without ingame sounds. At the same time, I can understand that some people like movies with ingame sound. As such, I consider it a case of <b>personal preference</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Continuity is an amazing thing.
<i>Personally</i> I didn't like the cel-shading, but I didn't gripe about it because it's obviously an artistic decision. Decisions like that don't reduce the quality of the video, they merely alter a fairly rudimentary element of them. The editing is far more important in my opinion, and this was done well.
As for the sampling and all that jazz, if the framerate could have been made higher it'd have been nice, but considering the download size is by far the most offputting thing about the video before you even start on the content, I'm happy it was left as it is (what's more I don't know enough about this to tell who's right and who's wrong).
In-game sounds - I think we all know what skulk bites and shotty blasts sound like and I don't think they'd add much more to it. Sometimes it's interesting to listen to what's going on over the mics, but that's more for post-match analyses then frag vids. The music helps establish a tempo and gives ideas for how to sequence and edit clips and is a suitable choice for both stylistic and contextual purposes. The onyl thing that's slighly annoying is how the two tracks don't somehow mix into eachother. I think even a bridge soundbite would have been better than nothing.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1634604:date=Jun 19 2007, 09:43 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jun 19 2007, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1634604[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Continuity is an amazing thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I was stating <b>my</b> my personal preference to prove that he was making arguments based on <b>his</b> his personal preference.
Can you even make one post without turning it into some sort of personal attack?
Zee quotes, they do nothing!. Merging some quotes to get beneath the limit. Hold on.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Complaining about personal preferences like music selection, is not constructive criticism, it's baloney. If you don't know the difference, you should probably just refrain from even putting your hands on the keyboard. Since I'm in the mood, I'll take a moment to maybe give you some insight. No, they aren't. It's impossible to make a movie that pleases everyone, music especially. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Constructive criticism is any criticism that is of actual use towards building a better movie. Knowing what people like and don't like is useful towards that end. In order to do so however, people have to be honest and say what they think instead of shutting their mouth and ignoring the topic when they dislike the product.
It's worthwhile knowing what some subset of the NS community thinks of your music choice if that is the target of your movie.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only valid criticism is if someone chooses a track that is extremely goofy or out of place (like a Christmas jingle or something), if the video/audio sync is bad because the music is extremely difficult/impossible to sync to the frags or if the track is overused in movies. None of these are the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a blatant double standard as well as ill-defined(Perhaps I find the same annoying noise repeating every second goofy?)
Limiting overusal of a track is a personal preference and by your standards not a valid criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a big difference between critique and someone saying your movie is good. When someone says they liked your movie/product for whatever reason, they're doing a positive thing, boosting your confidence. There really are no "rules" when giving praise -- it's always a good thing. When you give critique however, it is a negative thing, no matter how constructive. If you want to give it, you'd better have something good to say. Do you? Mostly: no.
If you can't handle the critique of your criticism, maybe you shouldn't post it in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not from a self-evaluation standpoint. And perhaps it's just me but my self-confidence doesn't need to be inflated beyond normal levels and I would rather have honest critique(good and bad) than some kind of love-bombing. I regard it as a disservice if you were to limit your criticism of my work.
I profoundly disagree on critique being negative and praise being positive.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Asking what movies you've made is a bad riposte, I agree, but it does have some validity. Giving praise doesn't require much knowledge or experience about the matter at hand, giving good critique requires that you actually know a lot about what you're talking about -- which you clearly don't. No, it isn't. This time it's just annoying whining, wasting our time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then be honest enough to ask me to show that it is feasible to do as I claim instead. Hand me the demos and I'll do it.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's arguing with you because he doesn't have much of a choice. You're cluttering up his release thread and camouflaging complaining as constructive criticism. Him trying to defend himself and his movie shouldn't surprise you, it's the natural (and valid) response.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Debate is a fair response. Throwing a wobbler and getting angry is not; learning not to conflate criticism with anger or being personally attacked is an important process of growing up.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Temporal Supersampling results in blank screenshots or blurry text (kill messages, crosshair), depending on what card you have, when using the startmovie command. :]
30 FPS is more than the most commonly used 25 FPS. I suppose you don't watch TV either since you can't handle "the poor framerate"? esJ addressed your complaint about resampling (knowing the name of what you're complaining about usually helps) decently. I'd like to add that I personally don't like resampling in first person heavy movies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've done exactly this before and not noticed this effect. Unless there is a bug I'm not aware of there is no reason for this effect to appear because hud elements stay in the same place and accumulate over a number of frames. Rounding errors are avoided by just using higher precision for accumulation.
Oversampling(AKA motion-blur, AKA temporal anti-aliasing, AKA resampling etc. depending on the tradition of respective fields of interest.) is what allows me to watch TV without being really annoyed or getting a headache. I don't watch TV, the programming was so awful that I just kind of stopped watching and eventually moved it into storage so I could have the extra space.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->esJ's reply to the lack of ingame sounds was terrible. Hardware or software issues is not a valid excuse for making a bad product. Ingame sounds are however not necessarily a good thing. Most of the time, the use of ingame sound is just a crutch for bad movie makers who can't be arsed to sync their audio properly to the video. I much prefer videos without ingame sounds. At the same time, I can understand that some people like movies with ingame sound. As such, I consider it a case of personal preference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that depends on if you want to accurately portray events that you believe to be interesting in their own right or not doesn't it?
You're arguing for arguments sake, it's pretty obvious in many cases that you are wrong. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, I can't be bothered wasting my time with it because you obviously can't seem to understand either of our posts or how they relate to yours.
<!--quoteo(post=1634629:date=Jun 19 2007, 03:46 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1634629[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You're arguing for arguments sake, it's pretty obvious in many cases that you are wrong. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, I can't be bothered wasting my time with it because you obviously can't seem to understand either of our posts or how they relate to yours.
Just GTFO of my thread now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if you're quite finished tossing ad homs in my direction in response to criticisim, gladly.
<a href="http://ensl.zanith.nl/" target="_blank">http://ensl.zanith.nl/</a> ,demos section for some more, can't wait to see. maybe you'll get some on ampednews as well.
If you want the sauna/bte HLTVs (not available literally anywhere else until I upload them to the nL FTP) or the tane/armless POV demo, feel free to PM me.
Haha, this thread has more views than the "I'm old and I suck" thread now. God these forums rock...
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited June 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's worthwhile knowing what some subset of the NS community thinks of your music choice if that is the target of your movie. That's a blatant double standard as well as ill-defined(Perhaps I find the same annoying noise repeating every second goofy?)
Limiting overusal of a track is a personal preference and by your standards not a valid criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's no reason to believe NS has a significantly different music demographic than the rest of the Internet, or even the world as a whole. Not to mention the fact that music isn't always chosen to please as many as possible, it's chosen to serve a specific purpose, make a specific mood, et cetera.
Overusal of certain songs as a very specific problem in the movie making community. When people choose the same song as another popular movie for example and then go as far as to copy the syncing techniques used in the first movie, it's worthy of criticism for obvious reasons.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I profoundly disagree on critique being negative and praise being positive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... and people claim I'm a real life reject...
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Constructive criticism is any criticism that is of actual use towards building a better movie. Knowing what people like and don't like is useful towards that end. In order to do so however, people have to be honest and say what they think instead of shutting their mouth and ignoring the topic when they dislike the product.
Not from a self-evaluation standpoint...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're still acting like your criticism is constructive, when it isn't. Constructive criticism is criticism that helps someone improve. Criticism is only constructive when it: A. Is valid B. Is not based on faulty premises or lack of knowledge. Your criticism is neither.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless there is a bug I'm not aware of there is no reason for this effect to appear because hud elements stay in the same place and accumulate over a number of frames. Rounding errors are avoided by just using higher precision for accumulation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignorance is bliss, but it also makes you a complete idiot when you're wrong. For the love of Someone, do not open your mouth (or tap your keyboard!) when you don't know what you're talking about.
8x AA <img src="http://www.ninelegends.com/files/Images/Fana/8xaa.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
16x AA with supersampling <img src="http://www.ninelegends.com/files/Images/Fana/16xsaa.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
The effect gets even worse when compressed.
Back when I was using and ATI card (about a year ago admittedly) turning temporal AA on resulted in all the startmovie screenshots being completely black. Turning it off made the screenshots normal again.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oversampling(AKA motion-blur, AKA temporal anti-aliasing, AKA resampling etc. depending on the tradition of respective fields of interest.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oversampling is not also known as mb, nor is it known as ta-a nor is it known as resampling or "etc.". Resampling is sometimes used to achieve the effect of motion blur, usually with other techniques (such as non resampled video overlays at certain opacities) to avoid too much blurriness. Temporal anti-aliasing is an ATi specific AA improvement.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't watch TV, the programming was so awful that I just kind of stopped watching and eventually moved it into storage so I could have the extra space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> ...thanks for sharing?
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, that depends on if you want to accurately portray events that you believe to be interesting in their own right or not doesn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it doesn't.
Soylent, you trying to criticising Space Jesus' work is admirable, but I feel as though you came across a bit too agressive. I suggest you try to work on the way you deliver your opinions.
esJ, from reading this topic, and indeed a few other as well, and having played with you in different games I have noticed that you have a hard time accepting criticism, as well as defeat. I believe learning to deal with it without responding in force would benifit you.
There's a large difference between criticism and 'lol your work sucks'. Do you want me to go into an in-depth study of all of the points he made and why I disagree with them, or are you just going to take my word for it that this isn't just me being a ######? I can deal with criticism fine, ask Fana :/
Your response to my last post suggests otherwise... I stand by my earlier <b>constructive criticism delivered in the, according to current psycho-social theories, optimal format</b>.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
It's true, I tell him his stuff is ###### terrible all the time. Do go on playing the amateur psychologist over the Internet though tjosan, it's really quite clever.
Comments
I'm really struggling, to determine whether you even watched the same movie I did, or if you're making a very blatant attempt at flamebaiting ... or if you're just an idiot. Help me out here.
I'm really struggling, to determine whether you even watched the same movie I did, or if you're making a very blatant attempt at flamebaiting ... or if you're just an idiot. Help me out here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hes just a troll. ignore him.
I'm really struggling, to determine whether you even watched the same movie I did, or if you're making a very blatant attempt at flamebaiting ... or if you're just an idiot. Help me out here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Instead of trying to deflect my criticism as flamebaiting when it is factually accurate and comming off looking like an idiot, just come out and say that you like annoying repetitive noises and MTV style editing and tell me to go elsewhere if I don't. The animosity is really not needed.
<!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The cell shading<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Artistic choice - not a valid criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the "music"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personal preference - not a valid criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the poor framerate<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
30FPS isn't enough for you? It's NTSC standard, go ###### to them.
<!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lack of temporal super sampling<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Errr .... do you want to complain that I only used a 2pass XViD encode aswell? Please be more pedantic.
<!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lack of ingame sounds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please explain to me how I'm supposed to record ingame sound when, at the time I made this movie, I didn't own a soundcard which supported stereo mix? Yeah, I thought as much.
<!--quoteo(post=1634536:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1634536[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->makes it almost unwatchable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want to exaggerate a little more? Oh, wait, you already did. Care to link to any of the movies you have edited yourself? I'm not 'deflecting your crits as flamebait' they are <b>not</b> constructive crits, no matter which angle you look at it from. You are flamebaiting.
What you are doing is just confirmation bias; I don't see you rejecting the praise you are getting with contempt as just personal preference.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Artistic choice - not a valid criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Factually accurate account of what the video contains and my opinion of it without dishonesty.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personal preference - not a valid criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Factually accurate account of what the video contains and my opinion of it without dishonesty.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->30FPS isn't enough for you? It's NTSC standard, go ###### to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have the demo files; HL allows you to easily play back the video and save screenshots at say 300 FPS and accumulate 10 for each frame in the video. It looks so much better it's unbelievable and it's pretty common with HL movies.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please explain to me how I'm supposed to record ingame sound when, at the time I made this movie, I didn't own a soundcard which supported stereo mix? Yeah, I thought as much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Have pity on me" is really not a valid rejection of criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You want to exaggerate a little more? Oh, wait, you already did. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not an exaggeration. It gave me a headache watching that and it spoiled the fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Care to link to any of the movies you have edited yourself?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gee, I don't see you asking people who praise your movie to link movies they have made. This is just confirmation bias rearing its ugly head again.
<!--quoteo(post=1634566:date=Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM:name=SpaceJesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SpaceJesus @ Jun 19 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1634566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not 'deflecting your crits as flamebait' they are <b>not</b> constructive crits, no matter which angle you look at it from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honest criticism is always constructive. It allows you to poll what a wide variety of people like instead of hiding in a protected bubble of confirmation bias. And I am suggesting ways to 'fix' your movie if you care what I think of it, lose the music, accumulate multiple frames into each, use ingame sounds. And if you don't care what I think of your movie, why are you even arguing with me? Are you so insecure that you cannot have people who dislike your editing?
Sure, your 'criticisms' would be somewhat useful, if I was aiming to cater to the largest common denominator - I'm not. I also, really don't care if you dislike the artistic style I chose for this video, nor whether or not you like the style of my editing. I really couldn't care less.
Saying "I don't like the music you chose" is not a criticism. Saying "I don't like the music you chose because I feel that it wasn't the kind of music that it is easy to sync to, and the movie suffered as a result" is a criticism. Do you see the difference?
And just to enlighten you about what exactly you are complaining about - it's called frame resampling. It's the process of sampling multiple frames into a single composite frame, and is most commonly used for rapid recams. The fact that I recorded pretty much every single clip in Radial at 150fps (credits sequence was recorded at over 500fps) and resampled it down to 30fps .... that's kinda besides the point though seeing as I disabled resampling when I rendered because it looks like crap in NS. Just remembered that xD
Seriously, you're not being constructive in the least. You're just being a ######.
Since I'm in the mood, I'll take a moment to maybe give you some insight.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
When you release a video you expect people to watch it and tell you what they think of it. Personal preferences are valid criticisms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, they aren't. It's impossible to make a movie that pleases everyone, music especially. The only valid criticism is if someone chooses a track that is extremely goofy or out of place (like a Christmas jingle or something), if the video/audio sync is bad because the music is extremely difficult/impossible to sync to the frags or if the track is overused in movies. None of these are the case.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What you are doing is just confirmation bias; I don't see you rejecting the praise you are getting with contempt as just personal preference.
(...)Gee, I don't see you asking people who praise your movie to link movies they have made. This is just confirmation bias rearing its ugly head again.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a big difference between critique and someone saying your movie is good. When someone says they liked your movie/product for whatever reason, they're doing a positive thing, boosting your confidence. There really are no "rules" when giving praise -- it's always a good thing. When you give critique however, it is a negative thing, no matter how constructive. If you want to give it, you'd better have something good to say. Do you? Mostly: no. If you can't handle the critique of your criticism, maybe you shouldn't post it in the first place.
Asking what movies you've made is a bad riposte, I agree, but it does have some validity. Giving praise doesn't require much knowledge or experience about the matter at hand, giving good critique requires that you actually know a lot about what you're talking about -- which you clearly don't.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Honest criticism is always constructive.
(...]And if you don't care what I think of your movie, why are you even arguing with me? Are you so insecure that you cannot have people who dislike your editing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it isn't. This time it's just annoying whining, wasting our time.
He's arguing with you because he doesn't have much of a choice. You're cluttering up his release thread and camouflaging complaining as constructive criticism. Him trying to defend himself and his movie shouldn't surprise you, it's the natural (and valid) response.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
(...)lack of temporal super sampling
(...)the poor framerate
(...)lack of ingame sounds
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Temporal Supersampling results in blank screenshots or blurry text (kill messages, crosshair), depending on what card you have, when using the startmovie command. :]
30 FPS is more than the most commonly used 25 FPS. I suppose you don't watch TV either since you can't handle "the poor framerate"? esJ addressed your complaint about resampling (knowing the name of what you're complaining about usually helps) decently. I'd like to add that I personally don't like resampling in first person heavy movies.
esJ's reply to the lack of ingame sounds was terrible. Hardware or software issues is not a valid excuse for making a bad product. Ingame sounds are however not necessarily a good thing. Most of the time, the use of ingame sound is just a crutch for bad movie makers who can't be arsed to sync their audio properly to the video. I much prefer videos without ingame sounds. At the same time, I can understand that some people like movies with ingame sound. As such, I consider it a case of personal preference.
<!--quoteo(post=1634575:date=Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]1634575[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of trying to deflect my criticism as flamebaiting when it is factually accurate and comming off looking like an idiot, just come out and say that you like annoying repetitive noises and MTV style editing and tell me to go elsewhere if I don't. The animosity is really not needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not critique, that's being a ######. You made an aggressive post and you got an aggressive reply. Get used to it or change your style, stop acting like someone sneezed into your tea without apologizing afterwards.
Complaining about <b>personal preferences</b> like music selection, is not constructive criticism, it's baloney.
... I'd like to add that I <b>personally</b> don't like resampling in first person heavy movies.
... I much <b>prefer</b> videos without ingame sounds. At the same time, I can understand that some people like movies with ingame sound. As such, I consider it a case of <b>personal preference</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Continuity is an amazing thing.
<i>Personally</i> I didn't like the cel-shading, but I didn't gripe about it because it's obviously an artistic decision. Decisions like that don't reduce the quality of the video, they merely alter a fairly rudimentary element of them. The editing is far more important in my opinion, and this was done well.
As for the sampling and all that jazz, if the framerate could have been made higher it'd have been nice, but considering the download size is by far the most offputting thing about the video before you even start on the content, I'm happy it was left as it is (what's more I don't know enough about this to tell who's right and who's wrong).
In-game sounds - I think we all know what skulk bites and shotty blasts sound like and I don't think they'd add much more to it. Sometimes it's interesting to listen to what's going on over the mics, but that's more for post-match analyses then frag vids. The music helps establish a tempo and gives ideas for how to sequence and edit clips and is a suitable choice for both stylistic and contextual purposes. The onyl thing that's slighly annoying is how the two tracks don't somehow mix into eachother. I think even a bridge soundbite would have been better than nothing.
Continuity is an amazing thing.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was stating <b>my</b> my personal preference to prove that he was making arguments based on <b>his</b> his personal preference.
Can you even make one post without turning it into some sort of personal attack?
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Complaining about personal preferences like music selection, is not constructive criticism, it's baloney. If you don't know the difference, you should probably just refrain from even putting your hands on the keyboard. Since I'm in the mood, I'll take a moment to maybe give you some insight. No, they aren't. It's impossible to make a movie that pleases everyone, music especially. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Constructive criticism is any criticism that is of actual use towards building a better movie. Knowing what people like and don't like is useful towards that end. In order to do so however, people have to be honest and say what they think instead of shutting their mouth and ignoring the topic when they dislike the product.
It's worthwhile knowing what some subset of the NS community thinks of your music choice if that is the target of your movie.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only valid criticism is if someone chooses a track that is extremely goofy or out of place (like a Christmas jingle or something), if the video/audio sync is bad because the music is extremely difficult/impossible to sync to the frags or if the track is overused in movies. None of these are the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a blatant double standard as well as ill-defined(Perhaps I find the same annoying noise repeating every second goofy?)
Limiting overusal of a track is a personal preference and by your standards not a valid criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a big difference between critique and someone saying your movie is good. When someone says they liked your movie/product for whatever reason, they're doing a positive thing, boosting your confidence. There really are no "rules" when giving praise -- it's always a good thing. When you give critique however, it is a negative thing, no matter how constructive. If you want to give it, you'd better have something good to say. Do you? Mostly: no.
If you can't handle the critique of your criticism, maybe you shouldn't post it in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not from a self-evaluation standpoint. And perhaps it's just me but my self-confidence doesn't need to be inflated beyond normal levels and I would rather have honest critique(good and bad) than some kind of love-bombing. I regard it as a disservice if you were to limit your criticism of my work.
I profoundly disagree on critique being negative and praise being positive.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Asking what movies you've made is a bad riposte, I agree, but it does have some validity. Giving praise doesn't require much knowledge or experience about the matter at hand, giving good critique requires that you actually know a lot about what you're talking about -- which you clearly don't. No, it isn't. This time it's just annoying whining, wasting our time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then be honest enough to ask me to show that it is feasible to do as I claim instead. Hand me the demos and I'll do it.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->He's arguing with you because he doesn't have much of a choice. You're cluttering up his release thread and camouflaging complaining as constructive criticism. Him trying to defend himself and his movie shouldn't surprise you, it's the natural (and valid) response.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Debate is a fair response. Throwing a wobbler and getting angry is not; learning not to conflate criticism with anger or being personally attacked is an important process of growing up.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Temporal Supersampling results in blank screenshots or blurry text (kill messages, crosshair), depending on what card you have, when using the startmovie command. :]
30 FPS is more than the most commonly used 25 FPS. I suppose you don't watch TV either since you can't handle "the poor framerate"? esJ addressed your complaint about resampling (knowing the name of what you're complaining about usually helps) decently. I'd like to add that I personally don't like resampling in first person heavy movies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've done exactly this before and not noticed this effect. Unless there is a bug I'm not aware of there is no reason for this effect to appear because hud elements stay in the same place and accumulate over a number of frames. Rounding errors are avoided by just using higher precision for accumulation.
Oversampling(AKA motion-blur, AKA temporal anti-aliasing, AKA resampling etc. depending on the tradition of respective fields of interest.) is what allows me to watch TV without being really annoyed or getting a headache. I don't watch TV, the programming was so awful that I just kind of stopped watching and eventually moved it into storage so I could have the extra space.
<!--quoteo(post=1634597:date=Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fanatic @ Jun 19 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]1634597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->esJ's reply to the lack of ingame sounds was terrible. Hardware or software issues is not a valid excuse for making a bad product. Ingame sounds are however not necessarily a good thing. Most of the time, the use of ingame sound is just a crutch for bad movie makers who can't be arsed to sync their audio properly to the video. I much prefer videos without ingame sounds. At the same time, I can understand that some people like movies with ingame sound. As such, I consider it a case of personal preference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that depends on if you want to accurately portray events that you believe to be interesting in their own right or not doesn't it?
Just GTFO of my thread now.
You're arguing for arguments sake, it's pretty obvious in many cases that you are wrong. I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, I can't be bothered wasting my time with it because you obviously can't seem to understand either of our posts or how they relate to yours.
Just GTFO of my thread now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if you're quite finished tossing ad homs in my direction in response to criticisim, gladly.
Good luck to you Sir.
maybe you'll get some on ampednews as well.
Haha, this thread has more views than the "I'm old and I suck" thread now. God these forums rock...
That's a blatant double standard as well as ill-defined(Perhaps I find the same annoying noise repeating every second goofy?)
Limiting overusal of a track is a personal preference and by your standards not a valid criticism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no reason to believe NS has a significantly different music demographic than the rest of the Internet, or even the world as a whole. Not to mention the fact that music isn't always chosen to please as many as possible, it's chosen to serve a specific purpose, make a specific mood, et cetera.
Overusal of certain songs as a very specific problem in the movie making community. When people choose the same song as another popular movie for example and then go as far as to copy the syncing techniques used in the first movie, it's worthy of criticism for obvious reasons.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I profoundly disagree on critique being negative and praise being positive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and people claim I'm a real life reject...
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Constructive criticism is any criticism that is of actual use towards building a better movie. Knowing what people like and don't like is useful towards that end. In order to do so however, people have to be honest and say what they think instead of shutting their mouth and ignoring the topic when they dislike the product.
Not from a self-evaluation standpoint...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're still acting like your criticism is constructive, when it isn't. Constructive criticism is criticism that helps someone improve. Criticism is only constructive when it: A. Is valid B. Is not based on faulty premises or lack of knowledge. Your criticism is neither.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless there is a bug I'm not aware of there is no reason for this effect to appear because hud elements stay in the same place and accumulate over a number of frames. Rounding errors are avoided by just using higher precision for accumulation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ignorance is bliss, but it also makes you a complete idiot when you're wrong. For the love of Someone, do not open your mouth (or tap your keyboard!) when you don't know what you're talking about.
8x AA
<img src="http://www.ninelegends.com/files/Images/Fana/8xaa.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
16x AA with supersampling
<img src="http://www.ninelegends.com/files/Images/Fana/16xsaa.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
The effect gets even worse when compressed.
Back when I was using and ATI card (about a year ago admittedly) turning temporal AA on resulted in all the startmovie screenshots being completely black. Turning it off made the screenshots normal again.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oversampling(AKA motion-blur, AKA temporal anti-aliasing, AKA resampling etc. depending on the tradition of respective fields of interest.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oversampling is not also known as mb, nor is it known as ta-a nor is it known as resampling or "etc.". Resampling is sometimes used to achieve the effect of motion blur, usually with other techniques (such as non resampled video overlays at certain opacities) to avoid too much blurriness. Temporal anti-aliasing is an ATi specific AA improvement.
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't watch TV, the programming was so awful that I just kind of stopped watching and eventually moved it into storage so I could have the extra space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...thanks for sharing?
<!--quoteo(post=1634627:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 19 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]1634627[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, that depends on if you want to accurately portray events that you believe to be interesting in their own right or not doesn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it doesn't.
Soylent, you trying to criticising Space Jesus' work is admirable, but I feel as though you came across a bit too agressive. I suggest you try to work on the way you deliver your opinions.
esJ, from reading this topic, and indeed a few other as well, and having played with you in different games I have noticed that you have a hard time accepting criticism, as well as defeat. I believe learning to deal with it without responding in force would benifit you.
Now gtfo my internet, twats.
I can deal with criticism fine, ask Fana :/
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