Why no (widespread) console MMORPGs?
DiscoZombie
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
in Off-Topic
Just curious - with the robust online capabilities of the 360, and possibly the Wii too, why aren't there any MMO games for them yet? or even any in production that I know of?
MMORPGs are big cash cows on the PC... I would think consoles game makers would want to cash in on this, and bring MMORPGs to a wider market. There was Phantasy Star, which was more instanced than MMO... why haven't any game companies decided yet that a console MMO game would be a good money maker? is it the lack of a keyboard? Ratings problems? some limiting factor I'm not thinking of? I read that the Turbine execs haven't ruled out a console port of LotRO or another MMO game, but that's not any time in the near future...
MMORPGs are big cash cows on the PC... I would think consoles game makers would want to cash in on this, and bring MMORPGs to a wider market. There was Phantasy Star, which was more instanced than MMO... why haven't any game companies decided yet that a console MMO game would be a good money maker? is it the lack of a keyboard? Ratings problems? some limiting factor I'm not thinking of? I read that the Turbine execs haven't ruled out a console port of LotRO or another MMO game, but that's not any time in the near future...
Comments
Lack of keyboard might be a factor. Imagine if the trade channel wasn't text spam, but voice spam. Actually, don't, the image will disturb you greatly.
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The chatpad for the 360 will solve the keyboard problem.
(I also use to wonder why mmorpgs didn't use voice chat, now i know...)
When will they get smart and start making consoles with mouse/keyboard >.>
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ZOMG
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/I-SNES-Mouse-Front.JPG/192px-I-SNES-Mouse-Front.JPG" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Anyway:
The reason why there are no widespread console MMORPGs is that in order to keep people playing you need to make your game world bigger and bigger from time to time. This results in more data-storage demand on the client side and normally also more cpu/gpu load on the client side. But because consoles have a more or less fixed set of hardware you just cannot do that and thus the game might become relatively stall after a while and people will quit because there is nothing more to explore. The lack of a keyboard is also a big problem, lots of people use mmorpgs to play and as an advanced chat room. So socializing without keyboard becomes harder, unless you use a headset. But when you use a headset you automatically increase bandwidth demand. Another issue would be subscriptions. This is normally done through CCs, but when talking about a console mmorpg one can safely assume that a huge number of those console players are minors without a CC. This means that you need some kind of pre-paid system that allows you to buy pre-paid cards at your local retailer. Then you need to enter the code on your prepaid card. ITS A TRAP! Those friking consoles dont have keyboards. How are you supposed to enter the cardcode without hurting yourself <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Phantasy Star Online back on ye olde dreamcast did pretty well for itself until Sega started the monthly fees. After that it just slowly went downhill :p
FFXI isn't exactly a flop though and I'm pretty sure they have monthly fees.
All that guff about lack of keyboards or any silliness ignorance of what console gamers are actually like (LOLZ THEY NOT KNOW HOW TO USE BUTTONZ) is twaddle. There's keyboards available for most consoles outside of the wii and voice comms too and as PSO and FFXI have both proven there's plenty of willing gamers who'll buy them to play a game if they like it.
Devs see it as new ground to make MMOs on consoles and in the industry new ground is usually regarded with suspicion and fear. If you ever wanted a reason it's really as simple as that.
[...]All that guff about lack of keyboards or any silliness ignorance of what console gamers are actually like (LOLZ THEY NOT KNOW HOW TO USE BUTTONZ) is twaddle.[...]
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Somebody had to say it. I was just faster. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I've never understood the 'berlin wall' PC-only Gamers try and put up against consoles... it's an entirely one-way bias as well as most console gamers either have a PC <b>as well</b> or those that don't bear no ill-will nor have any bizarre intolerance of PCs.
anyone who thinks PC is superior to Consoles for gaming (or vica versa) needs a reality check; if you're a gamer you play games, not platforms ><
anyone who thinks PC is superior to Consoles for gaming (or vica versa) needs a reality check; if you're a gamer you play games, not platforms ><
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I think a PC has better controls for certain genres though. I can't imagine playing a good RTS game on a console and I find a keyboard and mouse more natural for fps games than a console's game pad.
if you're a gamer you play games, not platforms ><
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See, thats what pisses me off:
Console games work only on their respective console.
My problem is, that I like Zelda and Gears of War and God of War but i dont want to buy a Wii,xbox360 and a PS3. Then there is also the issue of consoles beeing fixed pieces of hardware and often enough they are put together with spare parts. Look at the 360. That thing uses inferior heat-paste resulting in the dreaded red-circle-of-death. With a PC I can simply pick the components of my choice. I can also just replace a single part. Consoles are just way too much like Laptops when it comes to repairing them. They are soo tightly packed that you are simply forced to send them in.
Oh and PCs are backwards compatible. I can still play any game out of my collection. Even wizardry 3 and ultima underworld. They all work fine, because PCs are so versatile and emulation software for nearly everything is available.
Sure consoles are great for kids, but they broke that the second they moved away from cartridges. All my NES, SNES, Gameboy and N64 games still work although I have been not older than 10 when i got my first games. But when I look at some of the CDs my siblings have. Scratched as hell.
Thats also the reason why me and my brother started modding our siblings consoles and instead of giving them the original game, we simply create backup copies, store the original safely away and give them copies to play with.
But I DO have my reservations. As a medium, I simply prefer PCs. It's not a question of believing they're objectively superior, I just like 'em better.* As such, consoles do take on an antagonistic quality as they increasingly dominate the market, threatening to marginalise PCs. I'm also starting to have doubts regarding the level of control that console manufacturers seem to be able to exert over game developers, but more on that in my <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=6618777327808183296&showtopic=101878" target="_blank">Manhunt 2 thread.</a>
* Although PCs DO have some advantages. I doubt we'd ever have seen NS, CS, DoD etc. on a console. And how many Oblivion mods were coded on an Xbox again?
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I think a PC has better controls for certain genres though. I can't imagine playing a good RTS game on a console and I find a keyboard and mouse more natural for fps games than a console's game pad.
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I don't think it's viable to link consoles and PCs to specific input devices any longer. You can easily connect a gamepad to a PC, and a mouse and keyboard to most consoles.
Can we then, *gasp* conclude that there's no difference anymore between PCs and consoles?
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No.
Though the differences has become noticeably smaller over the last years <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Make keyboard mandatory, ditch the console controller.
And the tv screen. I, for one, think staring at a monitor 3 inches away is the only way to play mmorpg, not a TV and a couch.
i think it's because most computers are hooked to the tubernet, they're seen more as communications devices that happen to have features that can be used for entertainment.
I think a PC has better controls for certain genres though. I can't imagine playing a good RTS game on a console and I find a keyboard and mouse more natural for fps games than a console's game pad.
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I agree with you. Some games feel better with some controls. I wouldn't want to try Prince of Persia with a keyboard or mouse, and for some reason (no idea why) Gears of War feels a lot more solid on the console for me than the PC.
...
And the tv screen. I, for one, think staring at a monitor 3 inches away is the only way to play mmorpg, not a TV and a couch.
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That doesn't matter any more. I have my 360 hooked up to my monitor right now, running at 1280x1024. It's quite nice.
If Guitar Hero is a hit with its big, clunky peripheral, I don't know why an MMORPG couldn't come with a keyboard and mouse for a console. a keyboard and mouse cost like $10 each these days, for the simple varieties.
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yah know, that would actualy be kinda awsome.
Package something like those ZBoards, exept sepcificly designed for the game.
I've never understood the 'berlin wall' PC-only Gamers try and put up against consoles... it's an entirely one-way bias as well as most console gamers either have a PC <b>as well</b> or those that don't bear no ill-will nor have any bizarre intolerance of PCs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is just plain wrong, trust me. You might not have encountered any, but they exist.
Hell, there are many who have the same intolerance against other consoles than <insert console here>.
This is just plain wrong, trust me. You might not have encountered any, but they exist.
Hell, there are many who have the same intolerance against other consoles than <insert console here>.
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QFT
Fanboys exist for everything, and they all suck, nuff said.
Personaly, I prefer gaming on the PC b/c most of the games I play generaly end up getting modded, and that is something that is lacking in consoles. You can't install any of the good Oblivion mods on the 360, nor can you play any of the HL/HL2 mods if you bought them for a console. Generaly, I can jsut get more bang for my buck, and I am cheap.
(note, I still like console games, and will buy a PS2 along with a huge catalouge of games one of these days)
I agree with you. Some games feel better with some controls. I wouldn't want to try Prince of Persia with a keyboard or mouse, and for some reason (no idea why) Gears of War feels a lot more solid on the console for me than the PC.
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Exactly! Having bought/played/beat Prince of Persia with a Keyboard and Mouse, a part of me died inside. There is definitely something lost with K&B as opposed to an analog stick. Holding "Shift" to walk sucks. But it's never really used in FPS games.
For some reason Gears of War does feel better on console, but I believe it's because it's a third person shooter.
For MMO's... I don't know, Phantasy Star Online was the only game I know that was most like an MMO. Also, I don't think 360 users would be happy throwing down an extra $10 a month. Chatting would be a problem too. That 360 keypad looked like a pain in the ass to use, a keyboard like what SEGA made would be suitable but since consoles have USB ports on them you can just plug in any keyboard into to chat.
Since most MMORPG's feature boring/sh*tty combat systems I don't think gamers would be too happy using a controller to "fight."
DrSureDeath needs to note what I already said about Phantasy Star Online and Final Fantasy XI; both online console games that use the controller and keyboard to nice effect.
To be honest, I rather prefer the controller-keyboard combo to the usual but that's almost entirely down to the fact that the singular online game that ruled my life for a while used that set up while much more stodgey, slow and uninteractive MMOs have endured on the PC through no fault of either the controls nor the platform but instead the endless repetition of uncreative developers.
If someone were to make an MMO with mouse and keyboard that had combat worth a damn I'd no doubt love that too... it's just not happened yet :/
For me PSO stands as a tiny sapling that could have been grown into something huge. It wasn't. Sega didn't learn from it (Phantasy Star Universe makes me so angry) nor did any devs with an MMO currently out it seems. Instead of realising that PvE needs to be varied and different to keep it exciting they instead churn on with the daffy system where most enemies are pretty much the same just with different abilities.
They constantly fail to realise that it's not just about different attacks it's about different movement and different defences too.
What's the difference between a lone melee-fighting Ork and a lone strider bird in WoW? Some stats and a different model, that's what.
They both close the distance to attack by wandering up to you, their attacks pretty much amount to auto-attacking and if you get their health low enough they run away for a while before coming back. Heavens! With this much variety I feel faint! ¬.¬
What's the difference between a delsaber and a Rag Rappy in PSO? Where do I even start?
The Rag Rappy Plays dead when it takes an amount of damage and has to be fooled into getting up and hit like a living pinata as it flees if you want to get items out of it. When it flees it even has the good sense not to come back too.
A Delsaber often leaps whole room lengths in a jump attack which has to be deftly avoided. It can't be attacked from the front as it's shield-arm protects it from all but potent magic. Instead you have to either lure it into doing a combo attack leaving itself open or you need someone to sneak around it's flanks to hit it there.
Just two <b>Basic</b> creatures from the game you'd find by playing it normally. I'm not even touching the Raids or Bosses or anything and you see a world of difference.
...
Ick, I've gone on a MMO tangeant Rant again.
Anyhoo, I'm sure you all get the idea; while the platforms are different and there's nothing wrong with preferences neither is really 'better'. Just different.
The real problem is those blinkered folk we label fanboys.
I've never met an Anti-PC player before Align and I know a looot of gamers so if you've found one then I guess either you're unlucky or I'm blessed with good fortune :p
I didn't say there weren't console-war fanboys though... I might have avoided mentioning them but I don't pretend these sad creatures don't exist. In my eyes they're just as bad as those behind the PC-Console divide.