Having to take your hand away from the controller just to chat blows. And you can do what? 4 actions? It's no substitute for at least 30 action keys on the hotbar.
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of having oodles of keys to play a game. I much prefer having a small core of keys so that the rest can be used for chat macros :p In counter-strike I had 46 chat keys. I was renouned in uni for being able to chat and play at the same time by using all these and a bit of super-speedy touching typing.
I guess, again, controls are down to personal preference. I sat on my sofa with my keyboard across my knees and when I wanted to type I'd just literally drop the pad. It'd land safely on either my thighs or between my legs where I could easily just pick it up again to resume play. Sometimes I'd just play with one hand on each control, typing as I ran. Regardless it was never a problem for me :3
As for actions you had 6 palette slots but I had full access to everything thanks to the quickmenu system when it was put in. After that it was like playing streetfighter (y, up, up, a = Rafoie!) and I was able to buffer spells and abilities faster than the game could fire them off :D
When you weren't a force however, PSO wasn't about having 30 abilities; it was about motion. You had to know how to avoid the attacks and time your own. There was something satisfying about winding up a 3 hit combo before the monsters reached you so that third, high-accuracy attack sweeped over them just as they got in range. Even simple things like only doing 2 hit combos on evil sharks (they always hit you back if you did a 3rd strike) made it fresh and different from fight to fight.
As long as it's fast-paced and doesn't involve grinding for levels. PSO did that pretty well actually, levels were just something you got on the side, like in most good normal RPGs, not something you spent most of your time polishing up.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1636684:date=Jun 30 2007, 12:50 PM:name=Testament)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Testament @ Jun 30 2007, 12:50 PM) [snapback]1636684[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> PSO wasn't that varied. I played it for quite a long time on my Dreamcast, and it was just like every other hack and slash wanna-be MMO. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game had tons of atmosphere and I think I might start playing it again. The enemies were a giant turn-off though since they were all just rehashes of what you fought in the forest.
I'm glad the game wasn't convoluted with shortcuts to every potion/spell that you have accessible it was about actually fighting. Clicking your target and hitting you Spell Key is really fun, no really. What next, a button that automatically attacks and chases so you don't have to do anything? In PSO you could actually run about and dodge crap and get out of the enemies line of fire to survive. Then you could come up from behind and handle your business. It was still a primitive combat system, but at least it did it right.
yup yup. Like I say... PSO was just the seeds of something that could be mind-blowingly fun. Nobody has bothered to nurture the basic lessons there and take it to the next step though :/
another thing: console is only good for adventure, top down/side scrolling, platforming, and most non-gamer type games due to the controller, i cant imagine playing wow with a controller o.O
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->non-gamer type games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a gamer for my entire life, I can say that in my experience, those genres you listed are almost always the most fun, innovative, and well-executed games that I find. After years and years of gaming ennui I branched out from typical FPS gaming and found a treasure trove of lost joys.
You spend so much time fighting braindead enemies. I mean they either randomly attack you, walk towards you like a zombie, or chase after you, even though you've wasted 500 others before him.
You do this to "get stronger" virtually. Meh.
I guess I like games where it's you, the player that gets better, as in, you move your hands faster, you time it better, or whatever.
I have PSO, gamecube and can play it on the ahem server. But, it's just enter Forest 1 (AGAIN), hackity slash slash, pick up loot, throw/sell crap ones, enter other area, repeat. Get to the dragon with the BAD camera angles and that's the most exciting thing that happens.
I guess I can understand about that varied AI thing in PSO. You have those bear things that walk at you like a zombie. Then you have those bird things that run fast. Then you have dogs that circle you.
I guess why there's no console MMOs... Well it takes a lot of juice, ram and stuff. While console games can look GOOD while singleplayer, in multiplayer, something has to fall. Gears of War looks great, but multiplayer is only 4v4 online. People expect killer visuals and tons of models. Something has to give.
And communication. A keyboard isn't exactly standard. Maybe a mic though. And I guess going through msoft/ninty/sony to change or update your game can be more work than it could be.
And there are just so many more pc gamers.
So I guess a console version can be possible, but pc is more profitable.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
The 360 could handle over 8 character models on screen, there's always 4 characters in Single Player at a time, and at times you fight enemies in waves of 6-10.
I'd think it's more of a net code problem, or just the game being suck with over 8 people on such small maps.
To be honest I'm not sure why you guys think the rest of PSO is forest re-hashed. The bosses for each zone are unique to themselves so I won't touch them because you definitely can't call them copies.
I'll give you that each level has it's 'cannon fodder' monster. This comes in three flavours of strength and elemental resistance and is indeed re-hashed though again they do have something in most cases that makes them different enough to be varied. - Boomas (Booma, Gobooma, Gibooma) first cannon fodder and pretty simple - Evil Shark (can't remember the names) same as booma but interrupts you if you try to do a full 3 hit combo making them a tad more dangerous - GilChics (strangely break the rules and don't come in 3 types) this one gets knocked down if you hit it hard which makes them interesting to fight and they have a laser attack they can use if you get too far away. If enough of them do it, it's quite difficult to avoid. - Dimeans (again, can't remember the names) these are a rehash of boomas. Only difference is they walk faster but who cares.
Of course if you're talking about zombie walking then you've obviously not played PSO on v.hard or ultimate. At these difficulties they 'zombie walk' at the same speed as you making it freaking difficult to get enough space to attack safely :p While 'normal' is good for getting people into the game I feel like v.hard is the 'real' deal. The introduction of Ultimate was interesting as well and adds one or two insanely different creatures such as the indy belra (though admittedly outside of the few interesting additions the rest are just remodelled versions of of the oldies with stat changes which is dissapointing)
Outside of the cannon fodder and Ultimate? They're hardly mere rehashes. If you feel some are then feel free to point out the similar types and I'll point out the blaringly obvious differences that mean they require different tactics to fight against :3 Note that I don't count the stuff added in PSO EPsI&II as worthy of note. Sega had pretty much lost the plot by then and not only did they somehow make the camera worse but two of the levels they added (VR Temple and VR Spaceship) are absolute crud. Even the bosses in those were shameless rehashes.
Again. the original PSO had good ideas or at least the beginning of good ideas. It just needs someone to take those ideas, grow them and make a proper game out of them :p
Comments
Having to take your hand away from the controller just to chat blows. And you can do what? 4 actions? It's no substitute for at least 30 action keys on the hotbar.
In counter-strike I had 46 chat keys. I was renouned in uni for being able to chat and play at the same time by using all these and a bit of super-speedy touching typing.
I guess, again, controls are down to personal preference. I sat on my sofa with my keyboard across my knees and when I wanted to type I'd just literally drop the pad. It'd land safely on either my thighs or between my legs where I could easily just pick it up again to resume play. Sometimes I'd just play with one hand on each control, typing as I ran. Regardless it was never a problem for me :3
As for actions you had 6 palette slots but I had full access to everything thanks to the quickmenu system when it was put in. After that it was like playing streetfighter (y, up, up, a = Rafoie!) and I was able to buffer spells and abilities faster than the game could fire them off :D
When you weren't a force however, PSO wasn't about having 30 abilities; it was about motion. You had to know how to avoid the attacks and time your own. There was something satisfying about winding up a 3 hit combo before the monsters reached you so that third, high-accuracy attack sweeped over them just as they got in range. Even simple things like only doing 2 hit combos on evil sharks (they always hit you back if you did a 3rd strike) made it fresh and different from fight to fight.
PSO wasn't that varied. I played it for quite a long time on my Dreamcast, and it was just like every other hack and slash wanna-be MMO.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game had tons of atmosphere and I think I might start playing it again. The enemies were a giant turn-off though since they were all just rehashes of what you fought in the forest.
I'm glad the game wasn't convoluted with shortcuts to every potion/spell that you have accessible it was about actually fighting. Clicking your target and hitting you Spell Key is really fun, no really. What next, a button that automatically attacks and chases so you don't have to do anything? In PSO you could actually run about and dodge crap and get out of the enemies line of fire to survive. Then you could come up from behind and handle your business. It was still a primitive combat system, but at least it did it right.
As a gamer for my entire life, I can say that in my experience, those genres you listed are almost always the most fun, innovative, and well-executed games that I find. After years and years of gaming ennui I branched out from typical FPS gaming and found a treasure trove of lost joys.
~hugs testament~
non-gamer game? isn't that a paradox? :o
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I call them "simulators."
But then I realized how BORING it was.
You spend so much time fighting braindead enemies. I mean they either randomly attack you, walk towards you like a zombie, or chase after you, even though you've wasted 500 others before him.
You do this to "get stronger" virtually. Meh.
I guess I like games where it's you, the player that gets better, as in, you move your hands faster, you time it better, or whatever.
I have PSO, gamecube and can play it on the ahem server. But, it's just enter Forest 1 (AGAIN), hackity slash slash, pick up loot, throw/sell crap ones, enter other area, repeat. Get to the dragon with the BAD camera angles and that's the most exciting thing that happens.
I guess I can understand about that varied AI thing in PSO. You have those bear things that walk at you like a zombie. Then you have those bird things that run fast. Then you have dogs that circle you.
I guess why there's no console MMOs... Well it takes a lot of juice, ram and stuff. While console games can look GOOD while singleplayer, in multiplayer, something has to fall. Gears of War looks great, but multiplayer is only 4v4 online. People expect killer visuals and tons of models. Something has to give.
And communication. A keyboard isn't exactly standard. Maybe a mic though. And I guess going through msoft/ninty/sony to change or update your game can be more work than it could be.
And there are just so many more pc gamers.
So I guess a console version can be possible, but pc is more profitable.
I'd think it's more of a net code problem, or just the game being suck with over 8 people on such small maps.
I'll give you that each level has it's 'cannon fodder' monster. This comes in three flavours of strength and elemental resistance and is indeed re-hashed though again they do have something in most cases that makes them different enough to be varied.
- Boomas (Booma, Gobooma, Gibooma) first cannon fodder and pretty simple
- Evil Shark (can't remember the names) same as booma but interrupts you if you try to do a full 3 hit combo making them a tad more dangerous
- GilChics (strangely break the rules and don't come in 3 types) this one gets knocked down if you hit it hard which makes them interesting to fight and they have a laser attack they can use if you get too far away. If enough of them do it, it's quite difficult to avoid.
- Dimeans (again, can't remember the names) these are a rehash of boomas. Only difference is they walk faster but who cares.
Of course if you're talking about zombie walking then you've obviously not played PSO on v.hard or ultimate. At these difficulties they 'zombie walk' at the same speed as you making it freaking difficult to get enough space to attack safely :p
While 'normal' is good for getting people into the game I feel like v.hard is the 'real' deal. The introduction of Ultimate was interesting as well and adds one or two insanely different creatures such as the indy belra (though admittedly outside of the few interesting additions the rest are just remodelled versions of of the oldies with stat changes which is dissapointing)
Outside of the cannon fodder and Ultimate? They're hardly mere rehashes. If you feel some are then feel free to point out the similar types and I'll point out the blaringly obvious differences that mean they require different tactics to fight against :3
Note that I don't count the stuff added in PSO EPsI&II as worthy of note. Sega had pretty much lost the plot by then and not only did they somehow make the camera worse but two of the levels they added (VR Temple and VR Spaceship) are absolute crud. Even the bosses in those were shameless rehashes.
Again. the original PSO had good ideas or at least the beginning of good ideas. It just needs someone to take those ideas, grow them and make a proper game out of them :p