<!--quoteo(post=1865458:date=Aug 1 2011, 10:05 AM:name=kaffaljidhma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kaffaljidhma @ Aug 1 2011, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1865458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, what are the shortcut keys for controlling and assigning squads? Hotgroups only really work on buildings.
Are they listed somewhere?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's Ctrl+1 to make a squad, right-click is more-or-less context sensitive. Haven't messed w/ comm mode much.
SkymanderXGreen Marine - The Few, The Proud, The Green.Join Date: 2011-07-29Member: 113006Members
I hate alien commanding just because of the cyst placement still being kinda bugged. also dislike some of the mechanics with macs and drifters and placement over all. But hey its the beta, to be expected.
<u>TL:DR</u> I offer a brief intro to my RTS background, then a partial list of hickups in the commander's interface design in NS2.
...
I would argue that refining the commander interface is pivotal to the development of NS2 in it's current stage. With the growing competitive scene surrounding the NS2 beta, the commander really needs a tighter toolset in order to be competitive, and competition is what will drive play-testing and polish. I strongly believe that every time the commander fumbles with a command, the balance of the game is slightly compromised.
<u>Personal note:</u> To provide background, I grew up an avid StarCraft player since 1998 and have played NS1 extensively in pub games. I got into playing StarCraft competitively around 2003 and since have moved to StarCraft 2, but as I have aged, I find less time and interest in playing ladder games (though I'm still deeply interested in the competitive scene surrounding the game). NS2 is sort of revitalizing my interest in competitive gaming, and I'm looking to grow as an NS2 team player. :D
With that said, I'm dumping my thoughts on the NS2 commander experience here. Please pardon my bias on StarCraft 2's interface, but I argue that it is a very well-developed interface, and that while NS2 need not copy other games directly, there is much that can be learned from SC's lead:
~~~~~~
- <b>Alien and Marine commander modes are too different in layout.</b> You need to unite both races with a unified set of tools to ease switching from one side to the other. For example, the alien commander makes frequent use of the top row of their command card and has to click with the mouse to access different actions or researches, while the Marine commander is constantly switching between sub-menus with the keyboard and using 2/3 of their command card to realize actions. Also, the Alien commander can place markers from a Hive, a sort of power that the Marine commander would have available globally regardless of their selection. It takes too much conscious thought to differentiate between each team's interface! On that note...
- <b>Commanders on each team are forced to use a different convention to communicate with their players. I argue that this atmosphere > mechanics design is hurting the flow of the game.?</b> While I agree that these behaviours lend to the style of each race very well, the current system is ultimately trying to alter each commander's play-style by funneling their actions via different interfaces. Altering a player's style in this way is not enabling them to play. The Alien commander uses very general markers to alert all players to specific threats or desired actions, while the Marine commander must select players and then explicitly order them to do things. Commanders are going to give explicit orders via in-game voice chat anyway, so I'm not sure why the order system is so different between these races. If global markers are a more effective way to command the alien team, I assure you, commanders will use them more often. Give the commanders the power to choose how to command their team and allow contrasting play-styles and meta-game to form naturally.
- <b>Do not hide building placement cursors, ever.</b> The commander needs constant reminder of what they're trying to do, even if they can't necessarily do it. Tint the placement cursor red or something, but don't make it disappear if the commander hovers over infestation or uneven geometry.
- <b>Allow units and structures to belong to many hotgroups.</b> Groups should be collections of references to units and structures. Units should not have a property defining the group that they belong to, if you follow my example. A proper system for command groups effectively accomplishes for both races what the "select" tab does for the Marine team.
- <b>"Cancel targetted action", "Close submenu", etc. should not share a hotkey with any other command card button.</b> For example, consider that the ESC key could always go back one step within the commander interface, leaving command card buttons for starting new actions and ultimately moving forward. It's a tried and tested convention in other games.
- <b>Toggled actions like deploy and undeploy should have totally separate hotkeys.</b> This way, the commander is explicitly aware of the action which they are performing. Also, the current state of the ARC/whip etc. in question is visually represented on the command card, as well. Also, a tried and tested convention.
I have other thoughts, but I think this is sufficient for one post. :D What are your thoughts, people?
<!--quoteo(post=1875485:date=Sep 19 2011, 02:37 AM:name=DarkOmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DarkOmen @ Sep 19 2011, 02:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1875485"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- <b>Do not hide building placement cursors, ever.</b> The commander needs constant reminder of what they're trying to do, even if they can't necessarily do it. Tint the placement cursor red or something, but don't make it disappear if the commander hovers over infestation or uneven geometry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Possibly the best idea ever. This annoys me every time I play comm for aliens and marines. I always forget it annoys me but if I think about it, it would save me so much time. It should just go like 30% transparent. All I do in this game is command marine or Kharaa side because my low FPS only allows for the RTS side.
My ideas:
<b><u>Problem</u></b>: Giving marines orders! <b><u>Explanation</u></b>: Whenever I give marines orders with selecting them and clicking them to go somewhere it almost never works. I try to tell them and 30 seconds later they finally see I'm yelling at them and that I set them a way point. In a competative game this isn't really a problem, but in pugs it is a big problem. <b><u>Solution</u></b>: At first it should be a big huge circle that spins in circles and blinks several times in the screen in one of the corners (or on the ground if its in front of them). Then have it get smaller and blink every little bit so it slowly reminds players. You might think this is annoying but I would argue it is more annoying to the commander yelling at people to do something for 30 seconds rather than building, upgrading, or placing med packs for others. The commander is the leader of the team, and should be listened to for almost every order. If you don't like this idea to much, maybe if you hit a certain key the command stops blinking and just stays on the screen.
<b><u>Problem</u></b>: Placing duplicate items/buildings fast! <b><u>Explanation</u></b>: I know this has been talked about a couple times, and maybe even more. But I think I have a new solution. My problem is, is when I'm commanding I place med packs almost every second. I have to press "E" then <i>s</i> *click* <i>s</i> *click* <i>s</i> and repeat. This takes so much time and is very unsucessful sometimes because you either hit another key accidentally or the hot-keys don't work for a little bit. <b><u>Solution</u></b>: After you select the assist tab, you select the item you want to place (i.e.- med pack, ammo pack, ect.) then you hold shift, and it keeps the item you are placing even after you place one. This would let you place support items very fast and fix the problem with ease. This could also work for buildings
I have no solutions. Only problems. Number 1 & 2 are major. Number 3 deserves attention. I'm blunt because I'm tired and have limited time.
1.) I'm in a box. The interaction between players, buildings, and locations is not fluid. I feel as though my arms are tied down while I'm trying to climb a ladder. Sure, it is possible, but it is easier if my arms were free.
When I click on the map, I can't always get to where I want. When I click on a Marine, I can't always get him selected. When I click on a building, I can't always get it selected. When I try to hot-group a building or squad, it doesn't always work.
- Mouse response / world interaction needs to be more precise and less finicky/picky.
2.) My vision is limited. Experience alleviates part of this problem, but it is still inherently there. The buildings and structure blend in with the back ground and look too much like each other. Units in RTSs tend to have identifying stripes, dots, blotches with the team color, which stands out. This helps with identifying who it belongs to, and picking it up visually off the scenery (random google <a href="http://www.moddb.com/mods/red-alert-2-road-to-moscow/images/grizzly-medium-tank#imagebox" target="_blank">example</a>).
When I look for an arms lab, I find the armory. When I look for a shade, I find a cyst. When I look for players, I see walkway.
- Commanders need a contrasting view, even if that means it is different from what the ground players see.
3.) I AM Superman... let me see through walls. Many have already mentioned the difficulty in seeing "stuff" due to walls, odd geometry, and such... so I won't go on.
- Nothing should block the view of the commander. - The capability to Zoom may become necessary if the issues can't be resolved.
And now for something minor... - Put the building options on the left. Why? QWER, ASDF are on the left side of the keyboard. If you look at the option assigned to 'Q' on the left, help the brain by correlating to the keyboard directly below it (you could even give each line a slight offset like a keyboard). This can be adopted with any additional hot keys that could be added in the future. In other words, help the new commanders by making the commander GUI slightly resemble a keyboard.
I feel it is cumbersome (partially due to poor controlling the environment as commander) to find and select the researching building to find its current progress. If it is not hidden for balance purposes (ie require the commander to invest some time in "discovering" that piece of information, detracting him from other tasks), I think a small area of the GUI should include the research in progress with a pictoral representation of the technology and a meter (whether graphical akin to an hourglass or numerical) representing time left.
Preface: When considering the following proposals, one has to consider the proper balance of information retrieval and the skill it takes. Sometimes, it provides a better experience/balance when the commander is required to take additional steps to obtain a piece of information.
Research Progress Indicators: The icons would stack vertically below the log-out button. Because they are near the log-out button, it is advised to avoid making them have a click-action. However, if the logout button were moved elsewhere the research progress indicators could allow the following potential click-action... Left-Click: Jump to THE building/structure doing the research. A player who wanted to cancel the research would then be able to quickly click the icon and press the 'Z' (?) key to cancel research.
Building Icons: Moved to the left and slight (maybe less than I have mocked-up) to correlate with the keyboard. QWER Tabs could be visually more square, again for that keyboard look. The hot-groups could have a slightly longer image, again-again for that keyboard look, but they don't need to be taller since they are at the top. Obscure letters visible in boxes as a reference.
Additional Hotkeys: Item sensitive hotkeys that would appear/disappear dependent on the object selected. As requested, ARCs could utilize a key for "deploy" and "pack" (ex. 'G' & 'H') (why two? useful if you have a group of ARCs selected in mixed states of deployment?) and would be visible in that hotkey area. Proper planning could allow a mix of hotkeys while multiple 'types' of object are selected (mixed group of marines, arcs, macs).
Current Jump-To Alert: Possibly redundant, definitely adds to the overall amount of space the GUI takes up... For beginners, this reference to the space-bar would indicate that by pressing it you will jump to whatever alert is currently displayed in the "box".
Compact Mode: One thing that I did not draw in would be a compact mode button. This would essentially be for advanced commanders. They could press the advanced mode button and all the buttons in the bottom left would "shrink" down into a smaller GUI for more battlefield visibility. Advanced commanders may not need to see the entire CC icon or IP. The research meters could possibly shrink in size, too.
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Preface: When considering the following proposals, one has to consider the proper balance of information retrieval and the skill it takes. Sometimes, it provides a better experience/balance when the commander is required to take additional steps to obtain a piece of information.
Research Progress Indicators: The icons would stack vertically below the log-out button. Because they are near the log-out button, it is advised to avoid making them have a click-action. However, if the logout button were moved elsewhere the research progress indicators could allow the following potential click-action... Left-Click: Jump to THE building/structure doing the research. A player who wanted to cancel the research would then be able to quickly click the icon and press the 'Z' (?) key to cancel research.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If I saw progress indicators on the HUD, I would expect that clicking on them would select the structure responsible for their production. I think it would be better to have the jump-to-structure function than to keep the log out button up in the top right. Log out is actually a very dangerous function to leave so out in the open, and I think it would be better to place a text message on-screen such as "Log out [F10]". That way, there's zero chance that the player would click on it when aiming to click on other things around it.
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Building Icons: Moved to the left and slight (maybe less than I have mocked-up) to correlate with the keyboard. QWER Tabs could be visually more square, again for that keyboard look. The hot-groups could have a slightly longer image, again-again for that keyboard look, but they don't need to be taller since they are at the top. Obscure letters visible in boxes as a reference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally, I'm not a fan of the QWER-ASDF-ZXCV hotkey system that UWE is using. More specifically, I'm not a fan of the key layout with respect to what powers each key is associated with. There was a custom key configuration in WarCraft 3 that worked similar to this, but it also rearranged the buttons on the command card such that ASD were used for Attack/Stop/Hold Position, and QWER were used for all major special abilities. ZXCV were used to stop "extra" buttons, assigning the least comfortable button positions with the least-used command card functions. I would really love for NS2 to allow the player to configure their own hotkeys for every button, not button position. Better yet would be to allow players to modify the display order of buttons on the command cards. (I know this can be done by switching the order of kTechId.*, but it would make a great official feature in the game).
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Additional Hotkeys: Item sensitive hotkeys that would appear/disappear dependent on the object selected. As requested, ARCs could utilize a key for "deploy" and "pack" (ex. 'G' & 'H') (why two? useful if you have a group of ARCs selected in mixed states of deployment?) and would be visible in that hotkey area. Proper planning could allow a mix of hotkeys while multiple 'types' of object are selected (mixed group of marines, arcs, macs).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is absolutely proven in modern RTS games. Players need to decisively "deploy" or "pack" without worrying about the current mix or units in their selection.
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Current Jump-To Alert: Possibly redundant, definitely adds to the overall amount of space the GUI takes up... For beginners, this reference to the space-bar would indicate that by pressing it you will jump to whatever alert is currently displayed in the "box".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Would the jump-to-alert box eventually fade away, or does it persist until some new alert content comes up? Why can't the latest alert just get a different-coloured glow around it to show the player that it is the most recent?
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Compact Mode: One thing that I did not draw in would be a compact mode button. This would essentially be for advanced commanders. They could press the advanced mode button and all the buttons in the bottom left would "shrink" down into a smaller GUI for more battlefield visibility. Advanced commanders may not need to see the entire CC icon or IP. The research meters could possibly shrink in size, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I personally would like this, because after a while the command card becomes a tool for reading what abilities are available/ready on your units as opposed to a manner of actually using them. This is all a matter of using hotkeys as your mechanics improve. It's ultimately a pretty minor thing, though, especially at this stage in development.
Cataclyzm, I think you and I see pretty much eye-to-eye on the commander interface, especially regarding moving the command card to the left (or offering an option for it). I've had a little RTS prototype on the go for a while now, and this was a little secret I was hoping to keep for myself. =0D
<!--quoteo(post=1888867:date=Dec 7 2011, 01:26 AM:name=DarkOmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DarkOmen @ Dec 7 2011, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888867"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I'm not a fan of the QWER-ASDF-ZXCV hotkey system that UWE is using. More specifically, I'm not a fan of the key layout with respect to what powers each key is associated with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Addressing this topic. I don't feel that my hand rests naturally on these keys; using ASDF,SPACE as my five finger home keys. Maybe it is due to inexperience. In some ways, I feel that the hand shouldn't have to move from Marine to Commander (maybe?). In otherwords, CTRL/SHIFT,ASD,SPACE should be home. This would change the way that the menu system would change, which I have no preference for at the moment, which appears you, DarkOmen, have little like for. I have little experience when it comes to hotkeying in RTS as I always just clicked what I wanted and enjoyed the game casually. NS has a higher demand because you can't slow it down in tricky situations and the marines are like gossiping school girls who won't give you a break (ok, to be fair there are plenty of people that aren't that mean). And as it stands, selecting and moving about the environment is clunky (doesn't always seem to register as it should). I interested in hearing some alternative ideas and how they were used within other games.
Disclaimer: None of this is a MUST have.... BUT, if the goal is to encourage and make it easier for new commanders then some adjustment is in lin
Just to stir up the pot: Why not implement a system, where you can almost totally customize every setting you want. You would have a limit (x) for how many things you could place on your screen. You can place them wherever you want and can be changed out of game any time. You could also change the hot-keys.
I could go on years and try to convince you why I think customization is amazing and everything, but here are just some quick things why I love it:
The reason I love customization is because it makes the game closer to you and you'll want to put more time into to make it more for you. For example the game "Minecraft". The whole game is customization and building which is why people love it so much.
What you guys might think is this will make the game to easy, but I think not. This would allow for players to have to choose from a prodigious list causing them to have to choose from a limited amount of items, for their different tactics in game. You could have a "pug" set up, "scrim rush", set up "scrim long game" layout and so on.
Just think how customization is taking over the world. People want everything to fit them perfectly. Old RPG games only allowed you to pick preset characters with 6 different possibilities to choose from but now take Skyrim for example. You can customize every detail down to the shape of his lips and the curves of his eyes. Now I'm not saying I want this much customization in game, but I'm saying I would prefer being able to change the layout at least in some way if possible.
I have looked through a lot of the response and they are all good in their own ways for each person, and it's hard to get one thing perfect that every person can agree on. Now I'm sure you guys get what I'm trying to say here. This idea can go on in many different tangents and I think UWE would choose the best options for them. Even if you think this is a ludicrous idea then do tell why. I can't see really any fall backs, because all of the fallbacks I can see have fixes.
<b>If you don't feel like reading this all, I pretty much said: Customization of the controls for commander = good.</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1896007:date=Jan 19 2012, 09:06 PM:name=inFamous Design)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inFamous Design @ Jan 19 2012, 09:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1896007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just to stir up the pot: Why not implement a system, where you can almost totally customize every setting you want. You would have a limit (x) for how many things you could place on your screen. You can place them wherever you want and can be changed out of game any time. You could also change the hot-keys.
I could go on years and try to convince you why I think customization is amazing and everything, but here are just some quick things why I love it:
The reason I love customization is because it makes the game closer to you and you'll want to put more time into to make it more for you. For example the game "Minecraft". The whole game is customization and building which is why people love it so much.
What you guys might think is this will make the game to easy, but I think not. This would allow for players to have to choose from a prodigious list causing them to have to choose from a limited amount of items, for their different tactics in game. You could have a "pug" set up, "scrim rush", set up "scrim long game" layout and so on.
Just think how customization is taking over the world. People want everything to fit them perfectly. Old RPG games only allowed you to pick preset characters with 6 different possibilities to choose from but now take Skyrim for example. You can customize every detail down to the shape of his lips and the curves of his eyes. Now I'm not saying I want this much customization in game, but I'm saying I would prefer being able to change the layout at least in some way if possible.
I have looked through a lot of the response and they are all good in their own ways for each person, and it's hard to get one thing perfect that every person can agree on. Now I'm sure you guys get what I'm trying to say here. This idea can go on in many different tangents and I think UWE would choose the best options for them. Even if you think this is a ludicrous idea then do tell why. I can't see really any fall backs, because all of the fallbacks I can see have fixes.
<b>If you don't feel like reading this all, I pretty much said: Customization of the controls for commander = good.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agree 100%! I'm working on a mod to tie hotkeys to kTech instead of command card coordinates, as well as to allow players to reorder their UI buttons locally. Right now, Steam doesn't seem to be running too well on my computer, however, so it's a bit tough to test.
I've played alien commander and loved it. The one problem i have is that there needs to be focus keys to quickly target structures. There also needs to be a way to set control groups. Like if you have a pack of whips you wish to quickly target you simply hit ctrl+1 or w/e the control you've set. I've noticed that the first hive bound to the "1" key but the second and third hives are not bound to any key. The reason this is a problem is because during fast paced games you need to quickly target hives to produce infestation or drifters to set defensive structures ect. Also it is a pain to have to look around the map to target each individual shade or crag to use there cloaking or umbra abilities.
The other problem i have is resource nodes bugging and towers not being able to be build there. Also there should be a mechanic that has your drifter continue to try and build a structure even after an ally has walked on the location it was set to build. It's annoying to find that a drifter u wanted to make a resource tower stopped because an ally got in it's way for a second. And possibly timers as to when shades/crags cloaking or umbra abilities will end.
Not strictly on topic but would it be possible to introduce a way so that people can mess around as alien or marine comm on their own local game?
I would really love to be able to learn the basics of commanding without having to inflict my absolute lack of knowledge on other players. Mostly it's just so that I can learn hotkeys, techtrees and the range of different buildings.
You can. Open NS2 click on create, select the map and run it as LAN. If you are in the game, you can open the comsole and type cheats 1 in. The game will start and you can enter the Hive/CC to start playing ALONE.
If you type Lerk/Onos/Fade/Tres/Pres/and more you will instantly get it.
In the modding forum is a NS2 bot wich you can install and try out the commander commands like move/Defend/etc.
While the ideas above for an enhanced commander interface are generally good, I have one additional suggestion to make.
While playing alien commander yesterday it struck me that while shades are great for cloaking players and hives, it is too time consuming to navigate to a structure (such as a shade) and then click "cloak" at a given hive. Hotkeys are the natural answer to this, but with the possible large number of structures in late game, one could conceivably run out of hot keys to assign or start forgetting what is assigned to each.
My proposed upgrade to this would be an "ability panel" linked to each hive (or cc) that allowed the commander to activate the pertinent abilities of each structure (like "cloak" from a shade or "distress beacon" from an observatory) by clicking on the cc or hive (or navigating to cc or hive via hotkeys). That way the commander could click "1" for hive #1 and then activate whichever ability he needed much quicker and smoother. Certain abilities (like uproot for whips etc) could be left off of the panel to avoid clutter.
<b>What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?</b> Not so good :( It was laggy, slow mouse acceleration, and non-responsive menus were a huge problem.
<b>What do you love and/or hate about commanding?</b> I like commanding because it gives me an opportunity to yell at people on the internet. I don't like commanding because it frustrates me to no end, and I'm not a big multi-tasker and cannot keep track of where every player is on my team.
<b>Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?</b> I avoid it because while I do enjoy RTS gameplay, I just suck with the current interface in NS2 and I'd rather not be the one that determines the fate of the team!
<b>Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?</b> I have attached a crude diagram of some features that I think could enhance and simplify the commanding experience.
Basically, I was trying to make it easier to be able to instruct your team to do specific things using the squad window - such as Squad 2 (2), please go and attack (Q) Crag Hive. You can do all that by pressing 2 + Q + click the Crag Hive.
If you are lost and cannot find your Squad 4, you can hit 4, which selects it, and then hit 4 again, and it will cycle through each player in Squad 4, jumping your screen around to wherever they all are (hopefully together). That means you notice someone in Squad 4 is alone in refinery, you can tell them to get back with the rest of their squad.
Lets say you just finished researching jetporks and you wanted everyone in Squad 1 to come to base and grab one, all you need to do is press 1 + R and they will all get the message to come back.
If you want to issue a command globally, just deselect any squads (esc) and issue your command.
In the beginning of rounds, you do not have much time to spare, so forming squads might be tedious. Of course you can drag on your screen to select the ones you want, and then hit Shift-1 or Shift-2, etc. But marines tend to run and jump a lot, so there is a better way. Each marine starts out listed under the "unassigned" window. You can click and drag the player's name into the squad window that you want them in. To speed it up further, you can select multiples (hold ctrl or shift) and drag them all into a squad at once.
I also know nothing about UIs, these are just my rambling suggestions :D
<!--quoteo(post=1905556:date=Feb 21 2012, 03:09 PM:name=Smug_Lobster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Smug_Lobster @ Feb 21 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1905556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?</b> Not so good :( It was laggy, slow mouse acceleration, and non-responsive menus were a huge problem.
<b>What do you love and/or hate about commanding?</b> I like commanding because it gives me an opportunity to yell at people on the internet. I don't like commanding because it frustrates me to no end, and I'm not a big multi-tasker and cannot keep track of where every player is on my team.
<b>Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?</b> I avoid it because while I do enjoy RTS gameplay, I just suck with the current interface in NS2 and I'd rather not be the one that determines the fate of the team!
<b>Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?</b> I have attached a crude diagram of some features that I think could enhance and simplify the commanding experience.
Basically, I was trying to make it easier to be able to instruct your team to do specific things using the squad window - such as Squad 2 (2), please go and attack (Q) Crag Hive. You can do all that by pressing 2 + Q + click the Crag Hive.
If you are lost and cannot find your Squad 4, you can hit 4, which selects it, and then hit 4 again, and it will cycle through each player in Squad 4, jumping your screen around to wherever they all are (hopefully together). That means you notice someone in Squad 4 is alone in refinery, you can tell them to get back with the rest of their squad.
Lets say you just finished researching jetporks and you wanted everyone in Squad 1 to come to base and grab one, all you need to do is press 1 + R and they will all get the message to come back.
If you want to issue a command globally, just deselect any squads (esc) and issue your command.
In the beginning of rounds, you do not have much time to spare, so forming squads might be tedious. Of course you can drag on your screen to select the ones you want, and then hit Shift-1 or Shift-2, etc. But marines tend to run and jump a lot, so there is a better way. Each marine starts out listed under the "unassigned" window. You can click and drag the player's name into the squad window that you want them in. To speed it up further, you can select multiples (hold ctrl or shift) and drag them all into a squad at once.
I also know nothing about UIs, these are just my rambling suggestions :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having squads would make commanding a lot smoother and I really like this layout (besides the hotkey bindings, which should be changeable)
<!--quoteo(post=1898929:date=Feb 2 2012, 11:59 AM:name=iam)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iam @ Feb 2 2012, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've played alien commander and loved it. The one problem i have is that there needs to be focus keys to quickly target structures. There also needs to be a way to set control groups. Like if you have a pack of whips you wish to quickly target you simply hit ctrl+1 or w/e the control you've set. I've noticed that the first hive bound to the "1" key but the second and third hives are not bound to any key. The reason this is a problem is because during fast paced games you need to quickly target hives to produce infestation or drifters to set defensive structures ect. Also it is a pain to have to look around the map to target each individual shade or crag to use there cloaking or umbra abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Via other posts, I recently found out that you CAN set control groups, but you have to use the CROUCH key plus the number to do it.
I immediately re-bound crouch to Z when I started the game, so I wasn't able to set control groups for ages.
This is a bug that should be fixed IMO! Make the CTRL key set control groups, NOT the crouch key.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remove the Alien commander... the job of alien commander could be splited up to gorges and maybe also lerks. Alien having a commander just doesn't make sense....
<!--quoteo(post=1919221:date=Mar 29 2012, 10:50 AM:name=Ronarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ronarch @ Mar 29 2012, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919221"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Remove the Alien commander... the job of alien commander could be splited up to gorges and maybe also lerks. Alien having a commander just doesn't make sense....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Also please remove the limitation of build location of CC. Why set a boundary to innovating strategy?
Destruction of power node disables all marine structures. Maybe having 10 or 20 seconds allowance before all power are really shut down is a gd idea.
I didn't have time to skim through 18 pages of suggestions, so some of the things I write may have already been suggested...
I have at least a dozen games under my belt as a commander, for both sides and it is really enjoyable. The alien commander currently feels very lacklustre through, probably because it is a WIP so I will refrain from commenting too much on it until it is a little further down the implementation pipeline.
<b>General</b> - Allow the commander to select the important structures from the HUD. It is really annoying having to find a specific structure in your base just so you can further your tech. - The energy resource is confusing because it is not displayed on the HUD, I never know how much I have left for beacons, scans, etc. - Display researched tech and tech in the process of being researched on the HUD, some sort of small progress bar somewhere would be very helpful IMO. Especially as an alien comm I sometimes lose track of which upgrades I've already unlocked for my team. (Perhaps all unlocked lifeform upgrades could be displayed with an icon somewhere on the HUD)
<b> Marines</b> - Give the commander some sort of power grid overlay, or some other way of identifying the radius of a power node's energy circuit. It is frustrating when you build just outside the range of a given power node and just generally are not able to know what power node powers what part of the map. (This is especially the case in regards to some corridors and hallways in between rooms. - Squads! - Allow the comm to select a building (or even a marine) to then select (or use hotkey) for nanoshield. This would feel a lot more natural than having to first select nanoshield and then click on a building. (So basically nanoshield would be moved to the 'select' tab of a building) Currently it is very counter-intuitive, especially for new comms. - Allow buildqueue for ARCs and MACs, usually you want to build several ARcs in a row. (Could even allow queueing of upgrades and tech) - Allow building on infestation when the cyst is destroyed, having to wait for the infestation to disappear entirely can be annoying when you want to build a quick structure or forward base. In addition, the alien commander can abuse this fact by continuously spamming cysts.
<b>Aliens</b> - This is probably not easy to do given the implementation of the commander's overview but being able to place cysts on walls (and maybe even ceilings) would help A LOT. Cysts on the floor are too easily spotted and knifed. - Allow shade to passive cloak buildings, I really don't see any argument against this. Having to constantly click the shade and the camouflage ability just seems like a stupid way to keep the alien commander busy (since he has very little other things to do currently) - Display available hives on the HUD so you can easily click an icon and be sent to that hive - Make it easier to spread cysts from the HUD, without having to select a hive. - Allow the comm to catalyze things by selecting on that egg or structure being built and then clicking 'catalyze', rather than having to select catalyze and then click on a structure. (See nanoshield suggestion with marines). It feels counter-intuitive in its current state. - Drifer should not cost t.res since this puts total cost for an alien RT at 12, where as the marine one is at 10. (AND can be recycled) P.res would be a better idea, since it also would cut into the comm's ability to spam cysts to clear mines and annoy enemy. - Need to be able to mass select and root/unroot whips. - Crags should automatically pop umbra (on some sort of cooldown) when being shot or something nearby is being shot. It's another one of those pointless micro actions the alien comm has to attend to. - Display available gorges on the HUD, and allow camera to move over to them when you click the icon (similar to drifters), this would benefit gorge-commander interaction.
<!--quoteo(post=1920207:date=Mar 31 2012, 07:17 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 31 2012, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>General</b> - Allow the commander to select the important structures from the HUD. It is really annoying having to find a specific structure in your base just so you can further your tech.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is easier said then done, especially with multiple structures of the same type (tons of Armories). I would also argue that putting all these options in the HUD removes too much micro. Not to mention that it would clutter up the HUD quite a bit. Imho it's something that becomes less of an issue the more experienced you get at commanding. Because over time you will figure out your personal "base layout" and always build that way which makes locating buildings very easy.
Also: You can use Squads to bind Structures to hotkeys, Press crouch+a number
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The energy resource is confusing because it is not displayed on the HUD, I never know how much I have left for beacons, scans, etc. - Display researched tech and tech in the process of being researched on the HUD, some sort of small progress bar somewhere would be very helpful IMO. Especially as an alien comm I sometimes lose track of which upgrades I've already unlocked for my team. (Perhaps all unlocked lifeform upgrades could be displayed with an icon somewhere on the HUD)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Agreed on the energy resource, i like how the scan is now so easily spammable compared to NS1, but this leads to the energy being constantly empty. Maybe have Individual icons for each Observatory and CC on top of the screen that show the energy levels. That way the commander has always an better overview on his current energy.
- I believe one of the last builds added an progress-bar for research? Not too sure right now, because the 201 build added so much new UI in general.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b> Marines</b> - Give the commander some sort of power grid overlay, or some other way of identifying the radius of a power node's energy circuit. It is frustrating when you build just outside the range of a given power node and just generally are not able to know what power node powers what part of the map. (This is especially the case in regards to some corridors and hallways in between rooms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes this is an very annoying issue, nothing worse then building up an PG and realizing the Powernode is inside the Hive room behind 2 whips. Two solutions for that:
A: When the Commander selects a Powernode it will highlight the area it's supplying with energy. Probably easier to get into the game, but not the best solution. Can't depend on people having memorized all the Powernode locations, especially not when custom maps come around.
B: When the Commander has selected a structure to drop, hovering it over an room will highlight the room's Powergrid and the Powernode it's connected to. I would love that, because it's easy, intuitive and would probably look really cool.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Squads! - Allow the comm to select a building (or even a marine) to then select (or use hotkey) for nanoshield. This would feel a lot more natural than having to first select nanoshield and then click on a building. (So basically nanoshield would be moved to the 'select' tab of a building) Currently it is very counter-intuitive, especially for new comms. - Allow buildqueue for ARCs and MACs, usually you want to build several ARcs in a row. (Could even allow queueing of upgrades and tech) - Allow building on infestation when the cyst is destroyed, having to wait for the infestation to disappear entirely can be annoying when you want to build a quick structure or forward base. In addition, the alien commander can abuse this fact by continuously spamming cysts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Squads = Crouch + Number key
- Disagree on the nano shield, i like the way it currently works because it fits nicely into the hotkeys to spam meds/ammo. Having to select a target first would be counter intuitive to the way Marine commanding works with the hotkeys.
- Agreed on the build queue for MACs/ARCs. But no big fan of doing it with upgrades. Unlike he MACs/ARCs there is only a finite amount of upgrades to research. So imho it's something that shouldn't be made too "automated" but rather should require the Commanders attention.
- Nope, gotta wait for that infestation to vanish. Might be annoying at times but it gives Kharaa some time to react to that destroyed cyst before Marines get an PG up.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Aliens</b> - Allow shade to passive cloak buildings, I really don't see any argument against this. Having to constantly click the shade and the camouflage ability just seems like a stupid way to keep the alien commander busy (since he has very little other things to do currently)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you realize the Khamm doesn't have that much to do, yet you still want to remove things he can do? ;) The cloak runs on energy so it makes sense having to manage it, maybe just change the way it works? Instead of activating the cloak with an fixed amount of energy for an fixed amount of time, make it an "Activate/Deactivate" toggle. Activating it costs a little bit upfront energy but the shade will cloak stuff until it runs out of energy or is deactivated.
Alternate suggestion: Let other Kharaa players activate the cloak by "using" the shade. But that would impact overall Kharaa gameplay/balance and require an similar change to all chambers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Display available hives on the HUD so you can easily click an icon and be sent to that hive - Make it easier to spread cysts from the HUD, without having to select a hive. - Allow the comm to catalyze things by selecting on that egg or structure being built and then clicking 'catalyze', rather than having to select catalyze and then click on a structure. (See nanoshield suggestion with marines). It feels counter-intuitive in its current state.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- I would suggest doing the same things with the Hives as with the CC's/Observatory. Give them icons on top of the HUD that show the energy status of each hive. - That's something i also thought about, but i think the Khamm controls in general are in for an big overhaul once we got all the chambers/features in. - See Nano-Shield ;)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Need to be able to mass select and root/unroot whips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- This is already possible but quite bothersome to do, because it doesn't work if your group selection includes anything other then a Whip or you have mature and normal ones in the selection. So i would love to see an "double click selects all buildings/units of this type on screen" feature. That would certainly help with a lot of Kharaa micro. It's also an staple feature for RTS games, so adding it should be a no-brainer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Crags should automatically pop umbra (on some sort of cooldown) when being shot or something nearby is being shot. It's another one of those pointless micro actions the alien comm has to attend to. - Display available gorges on the HUD, and allow camera to move over to them when you click the icon (similar to drifters), this would benefit gorge-commander interaction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- See Shades. I don't think removing even more micro from the Khamm is an good idea because as it is you often end up not having enough to do anyway. So i'm just gonna repeat my previous suggestion: Let Kharaa players trigger the umbra by using the crag. Doesn't remove the micro completely from the Khamm instead the Kharaa team simply helps with it and also gets some interaction with buildings. There is a problem tho, Kharaa on the ground could end up wasting all the energy that the Khamm would maybe have rather used on the targeted abilities (Phantasm, Babblers).
- Interesting idea but i don't really see how useful this would be. Because the Khamm-Gorge interaction is still very lacking. So giving the Khamm an icon to jump to the gorges would be kinda pointless right now and probably confuse new Khamm players. Hitting that icon and jumping to the gorge leads to the expectation that more and deeper interaction is somehow possible when it's actually not.
I still like the basic idea, it clearly signals the Khamm that gorges are of importance to him. So maybe there will be some real and direct Gorge-Khamm interaction in the future which would make this actually useful? Let's hope so! :)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- See Shades. I don't think removing even more micro from the Khamm is an good idea because as it is you often end up not having enough to do anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> To be fair, the alien khamm not having a lot to do is a poor excuse to keep in these kinds of tedious tasks that could easily be automated. With this logic they might as well implement a minigame for the alien khamm to go through if he wants to catalyze something, since he has nothing else to do anyway. I'm sure the alien khamm will have enough to do when he's fully and properly implemented, then there really won't be any need for him to waste time on repetitive tasks like shade cloak and crag umbra.
In regards to buildings on HUDs, I suppose you have a point, though perhaps it could be consider for those buildings that you generally only build one of anyway, like the arms lab and the protolab.
Didn't know about the command groups for buildings, so guess I will use that for now :)
Well it's not really an excuse more like acknowledging that the Khamm is a new invention for NS and as such needs some special attention in that regard. And for that we need an carefull balance between "things he has to do", "things he can do" and "things he should not do".
As such i really don't like the idea of automating too much, after all those are "aliens" and not humans using nanites ;) If you automate too much of this stuff you will just lower the overall skill ceiling for the khamm, making it boring to play him.
Because that's the other side of "making things easy and simple", you quickly end up making things too easy and obvious and thus playing khamm would boil down to following a cookie-cutter strategy that always works when he doesn't have a lot of different options/variety in his actions. This btw also applies to your Marine comm suggestion to put upgrade structures into the HUD, these things just lower the overall skill ceiling way too much and shift the balance a tad too much in favor of "easy too play".
Sure i know where you are coming from with that suggestion, playing the khamm effectivley can be really annoying late-game when you have quite a lot of buildings around the map. But i think that's more of an issues with the current controls that are not really intuitive for the way khamm plays right now. Especially the need to select specific buildings to trigger abilities.
But thinking up a working and final control sheme right now would be kinda pointless with a whole upgrade chamber and all those targeted abilities missing. So imho just making the AoE abilities usable by every alien, by using the chambers could be a good fix for now. It would also help making kharaa feel a little bit less dependant on the khamm overall, as it should be. Because kharaa organize from the bottom up and not from the top down like marines.
Comments
Are they listed somewhere?
Are they listed somewhere?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's Ctrl+1 to make a squad, right-click is more-or-less context sensitive. Haven't messed w/ comm mode much.
I offer a brief intro to my RTS background, then a partial list of hickups in the commander's interface design in NS2.
...
I would argue that refining the commander interface is pivotal to the development of NS2 in it's current stage. With the growing competitive scene surrounding the NS2 beta, the commander really needs a tighter toolset in order to be competitive, and competition is what will drive play-testing and polish. I strongly believe that every time the commander fumbles with a command, the balance of the game is slightly compromised.
<u>Personal note:</u>
To provide background, I grew up an avid StarCraft player since 1998 and have played NS1 extensively in pub games. I got into playing StarCraft competitively around 2003 and since have moved to StarCraft 2, but as I have aged, I find less time and interest in playing ladder games (though I'm still deeply interested in the competitive scene surrounding the game). NS2 is sort of revitalizing my interest in competitive gaming, and I'm looking to grow as an NS2 team player. :D
With that said, I'm dumping my thoughts on the NS2 commander experience here. Please pardon my bias on StarCraft 2's interface, but I argue that it is a very well-developed interface, and that while NS2 need not copy other games directly, there is much that can be learned from SC's lead:
~~~~~~
- <b>Alien and Marine commander modes are too different in layout.</b> You need to unite both races with a unified set of tools to ease switching from one side to the other. For example, the alien commander makes frequent use of the top row of their command card and has to click with the mouse to access different actions or researches, while the Marine commander is constantly switching between sub-menus with the keyboard and using 2/3 of their command card to realize actions. Also, the Alien commander can place markers from a Hive, a sort of power that the Marine commander would have available globally regardless of their selection. It takes too much conscious thought to differentiate between each team's interface! On that note...
- <b>Commanders on each team are forced to use a different convention to communicate with their players. I argue that this atmosphere > mechanics design is hurting the flow of the game.?</b> While I agree that these behaviours lend to the style of each race very well, the current system is ultimately trying to alter each commander's play-style by funneling their actions via different interfaces. Altering a player's style in this way is not enabling them to play. The Alien commander uses very general markers to alert all players to specific threats or desired actions, while the Marine commander must select players and then explicitly order them to do things. Commanders are going to give explicit orders via in-game voice chat anyway, so I'm not sure why the order system is so different between these races. If global markers are a more effective way to command the alien team, I assure you, commanders will use them more often. Give the commanders the power to choose how to command their team and allow contrasting play-styles and meta-game to form naturally.
- <b>Do not hide building placement cursors, ever.</b> The commander needs constant reminder of what they're trying to do, even if they can't necessarily do it. Tint the placement cursor red or something, but don't make it disappear if the commander hovers over infestation or uneven geometry.
- <b>Allow units and structures to belong to many hotgroups.</b> Groups should be collections of references to units and structures. Units should not have a property defining the group that they belong to, if you follow my example. A proper system for command groups effectively accomplishes for both races what the "select" tab does for the Marine team.
- <b>"Cancel targetted action", "Close submenu", etc. should not share a hotkey with any other command card button.</b> For example, consider that the ESC key could always go back one step within the commander interface, leaving command card buttons for starting new actions and ultimately moving forward. It's a tried and tested convention in other games.
- <b>Toggled actions like deploy and undeploy should have totally separate hotkeys.</b> This way, the commander is explicitly aware of the action which they are performing. Also, the current state of the ARC/whip etc. in question is visually represented on the command card, as well. Also, a tried and tested convention.
I have other thoughts, but I think this is sufficient for one post. :D What are your thoughts, people?
Possibly the best idea ever. This annoys me every time I play comm for aliens and marines. I always forget it annoys me but if I think about it, it would save me so much time. It should just go like 30% transparent. All I do in this game is command marine or Kharaa side because my low FPS only allows for the RTS side.
My ideas:
<b><u>Problem</u></b>: Giving marines orders!
<b><u>Explanation</u></b>: Whenever I give marines orders with selecting them and clicking them to go somewhere it almost never works. I try to tell them and 30 seconds later they finally see I'm yelling at them and that I set them a way point. In a competative game this isn't really a problem, but in pugs it is a big problem.
<b><u>Solution</u></b>: At first it should be a big huge circle that spins in circles and blinks several times in the screen in one of the corners (or on the ground if its in front of them). Then have it get smaller and blink every little bit so it slowly reminds players. You might think this is annoying but I would argue it is more annoying to the commander yelling at people to do something for 30 seconds rather than building, upgrading, or placing med packs for others. The commander is the leader of the team, and should be listened to for almost every order. If you don't like this idea to much, maybe if you hit a certain key the command stops blinking and just stays on the screen.
<b><u>Problem</u></b>: Placing duplicate items/buildings fast!
<b><u>Explanation</u></b>: I know this has been talked about a couple times, and maybe even more. But I think I have a new solution. My problem is, is when I'm commanding I place med packs almost every second. I have to press "E" then <i>s</i> *click* <i>s</i> *click* <i>s</i> and repeat. This takes so much time and is very unsucessful sometimes because you either hit another key accidentally or the hot-keys don't work for a little bit.
<b><u>Solution</u></b>: After you select the assist tab, you select the item you want to place (i.e.- med pack, ammo pack, ect.) then you hold shift, and it keeps the item you are placing even after you place one. This would let you place support items very fast and fix the problem with ease. This could also work for buildings
1.) I'm in a box.
The interaction between players, buildings, and locations is not fluid. I feel as though my arms are tied down while I'm trying to climb a ladder. Sure, it is possible, but it is easier if my arms were free.
When I click on the map, I can't always get to where I want.
When I click on a Marine, I can't always get him selected.
When I click on a building, I can't always get it selected.
When I try to hot-group a building or squad, it doesn't always work.
- Mouse response / world interaction needs to be more precise and less finicky/picky.
2.) My vision is limited.
Experience alleviates part of this problem, but it is still inherently there. The buildings and structure blend in with the back ground and look too much like each other. Units in RTSs tend to have identifying stripes, dots, blotches with the team color, which stands out. This helps with identifying who it belongs to, and picking it up visually off the scenery (random google <a href="http://www.moddb.com/mods/red-alert-2-road-to-moscow/images/grizzly-medium-tank#imagebox" target="_blank">example</a>).
When I look for an arms lab, I find the armory.
When I look for a shade, I find a cyst.
When I look for players, I see walkway.
- Commanders need a contrasting view, even if that means it is different from what the ground players see.
3.) I AM Superman... let me see through walls.
Many have already mentioned the difficulty in seeing "stuff" due to walls, odd geometry, and such... so I won't go on.
- Nothing should block the view of the commander.
- The capability to Zoom may become necessary if the issues can't be resolved.
And now for something minor...
- Put the building options on the left. Why? QWER, ASDF are on the left side of the keyboard. If you look at the option assigned to 'Q' on the left, help the brain by correlating to the keyboard directly below it (you could even give each line a slight offset like a keyboard). This can be adopted with any additional hot keys that could be added in the future. In other words, help the new commanders by making the commander GUI slightly resemble a keyboard.
I feel it is cumbersome (partially due to poor controlling the environment as commander) to find and select the researching building to find its current progress. If it is not hidden for balance purposes (ie require the commander to invest some time in "discovering" that piece of information, detracting him from other tasks), I think a small area of the GUI should include the research in progress with a pictoral representation of the technology and a meter (whether graphical akin to an hourglass or numerical) representing time left.
<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KE5-X-4dzBE/Tt2DARuu50I/AAAAAAAAAEQ/0Jl9DiCXaP0/s1600/Commander%20Mockup.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
When considering the following proposals, one has to consider the proper balance of information retrieval and the skill it takes. Sometimes, it provides a better experience/balance when the commander is required to take additional steps to obtain a piece of information.
Research Progress Indicators:
The icons would stack vertically below the log-out button. Because they are near the log-out button, it is advised to avoid making them have a click-action.
However, if the logout button were moved elsewhere the research progress indicators could allow the following potential click-action...
Left-Click: Jump to THE building/structure doing the research.
A player who wanted to cancel the research would then be able to quickly click the icon and press the 'Z' (?) key to cancel research.
Building Icons:
Moved to the left and slight (maybe less than I have mocked-up) to correlate with the keyboard.
QWER Tabs could be visually more square, again for that keyboard look.
The hot-groups could have a slightly longer image, again-again for that keyboard look, but they don't need to be taller since they are at the top.
Obscure letters visible in boxes as a reference.
Additional Hotkeys:
Item sensitive hotkeys that would appear/disappear dependent on the object selected. As requested, ARCs could utilize a key for "deploy" and "pack" (ex. 'G' & 'H') (why two? useful if you have a group of ARCs selected in mixed states of deployment?) and would be visible in that hotkey area. Proper planning could allow a mix of hotkeys while multiple 'types' of object are selected (mixed group of marines, arcs, macs).
Current Jump-To Alert:
Possibly redundant, definitely adds to the overall amount of space the GUI takes up... For beginners, this reference to the space-bar would indicate that by pressing it you will jump to whatever alert is currently displayed in the "box".
Compact Mode:
One thing that I did not draw in would be a compact mode button. This would essentially be for advanced commanders. They could press the advanced mode button and all the buttons in the bottom left would "shrink" down into a smaller GUI for more battlefield visibility. Advanced commanders may not need to see the entire CC icon or IP. The research meters could possibly shrink in size, too.
When considering the following proposals, one has to consider the proper balance of information retrieval and the skill it takes. Sometimes, it provides a better experience/balance when the commander is required to take additional steps to obtain a piece of information.
Research Progress Indicators:
The icons would stack vertically below the log-out button. Because they are near the log-out button, it is advised to avoid making them have a click-action.
However, if the logout button were moved elsewhere the research progress indicators could allow the following potential click-action...
Left-Click: Jump to THE building/structure doing the research.
A player who wanted to cancel the research would then be able to quickly click the icon and press the 'Z' (?) key to cancel research.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I saw progress indicators on the HUD, I would expect that clicking on them would select the structure responsible for their production. I think it would be better to have the jump-to-structure function than to keep the log out button up in the top right. Log out is actually a very dangerous function to leave so out in the open, and I think it would be better to place a text message on-screen such as "Log out [F10]". That way, there's zero chance that the player would click on it when aiming to click on other things around it.
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Building Icons:
Moved to the left and slight (maybe less than I have mocked-up) to correlate with the keyboard.
QWER Tabs could be visually more square, again for that keyboard look.
The hot-groups could have a slightly longer image, again-again for that keyboard look, but they don't need to be taller since they are at the top.
Obscure letters visible in boxes as a reference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I'm not a fan of the QWER-ASDF-ZXCV hotkey system that UWE is using. More specifically, I'm not a fan of the key layout with respect to what powers each key is associated with. There was a custom key configuration in WarCraft 3 that worked similar to this, but it also rearranged the buttons on the command card such that ASD were used for Attack/Stop/Hold Position, and QWER were used for all major special abilities. ZXCV were used to stop "extra" buttons, assigning the least comfortable button positions with the least-used command card functions. I would really love for NS2 to allow the player to configure their own hotkeys for every button, not button position. Better yet would be to allow players to modify the display order of buttons on the command cards. (I know this can be done by switching the order of kTechId.*, but it would make a great official feature in the game).
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Additional Hotkeys:
Item sensitive hotkeys that would appear/disappear dependent on the object selected. As requested, ARCs could utilize a key for "deploy" and "pack" (ex. 'G' & 'H') (why two? useful if you have a group of ARCs selected in mixed states of deployment?) and would be visible in that hotkey area. Proper planning could allow a mix of hotkeys while multiple 'types' of object are selected (mixed group of marines, arcs, macs).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is absolutely proven in modern RTS games. Players need to decisively "deploy" or "pack" without worrying about the current mix or units in their selection.
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Current Jump-To Alert:
Possibly redundant, definitely adds to the overall amount of space the GUI takes up... For beginners, this reference to the space-bar would indicate that by pressing it you will jump to whatever alert is currently displayed in the "box".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would the jump-to-alert box eventually fade away, or does it persist until some new alert content comes up? Why can't the latest alert just get a different-coloured glow around it to show the player that it is the most recent?
<!--quoteo(post=1888714:date=Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM:name=Cataclyzm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cataclyzm @ Dec 6 2011, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1888714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Compact Mode:
One thing that I did not draw in would be a compact mode button. This would essentially be for advanced commanders. They could press the advanced mode button and all the buttons in the bottom left would "shrink" down into a smaller GUI for more battlefield visibility. Advanced commanders may not need to see the entire CC icon or IP. The research meters could possibly shrink in size, too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally would like this, because after a while the command card becomes a tool for reading what abilities are available/ready on your units as opposed to a manner of actually using them. This is all a matter of using hotkeys as your mechanics improve. It's ultimately a pretty minor thing, though, especially at this stage in development.
Cataclyzm, I think you and I see pretty much eye-to-eye on the commander interface, especially regarding moving the command card to the left (or offering an option for it). I've had a little RTS prototype on the go for a while now, and this was a little secret I was hoping to keep for myself. =0D
Addressing this topic.
I don't feel that my hand rests naturally on these keys; using ASDF,SPACE as my five finger home keys. Maybe it is due to inexperience.
In some ways, I feel that the hand shouldn't have to move from Marine to Commander (maybe?). In otherwords, CTRL/SHIFT,ASD,SPACE should be home. This would change the way that the menu system would change, which I have no preference for at the moment, which appears you, DarkOmen, have little like for.
I have little experience when it comes to hotkeying in RTS as I always just clicked what I wanted and enjoyed the game casually. NS has a higher demand because you can't slow it down in tricky situations and the marines are like gossiping school girls who won't give you a break (ok, to be fair there are plenty of people that aren't that mean). And as it stands, selecting and moving about the environment is clunky (doesn't always seem to register as it should).
I interested in hearing some alternative ideas and how they were used within other games.
Disclaimer:
None of this is a MUST have.... BUT, if the goal is to encourage and make it easier for new commanders then some adjustment is in lin
I could go on years and try to convince you why I think customization is amazing and everything, but here are just some quick things why I love it:
The reason I love customization is because it makes the game closer to you and you'll want to put more time into to make it more for you. For example the game "Minecraft". The whole game is customization and building which is why people love it so much.
What you guys might think is this will make the game to easy, but I think not. This would allow for players to have to choose from a prodigious list causing them to have to choose from a limited amount of items, for their different tactics in game. You could have a "pug" set up, "scrim rush", set up "scrim long game" layout and so on.
Just think how customization is taking over the world. People want everything to fit them perfectly. Old RPG games only allowed you to pick preset characters with 6 different possibilities to choose from but now take Skyrim for example. You can customize every detail down to the shape of his lips and the curves of his eyes. Now I'm not saying I want this much customization in game, but I'm saying I would prefer being able to change the layout at least in some way if possible.
I have looked through a lot of the response and they are all good in their own ways for each person, and it's hard to get one thing perfect that every person can agree on. Now I'm sure you guys get what I'm trying to say here. This idea can go on in many different tangents and I think UWE would choose the best options for them. Even if you think this is a ludicrous idea then do tell why. I can't see really any fall backs, because all of the fallbacks I can see have fixes.
<b>If you don't feel like reading this all, I pretty much said: Customization of the controls for commander = good.</b>
I could go on years and try to convince you why I think customization is amazing and everything, but here are just some quick things why I love it:
The reason I love customization is because it makes the game closer to you and you'll want to put more time into to make it more for you. For example the game "Minecraft". The whole game is customization and building which is why people love it so much.
What you guys might think is this will make the game to easy, but I think not. This would allow for players to have to choose from a prodigious list causing them to have to choose from a limited amount of items, for their different tactics in game. You could have a "pug" set up, "scrim rush", set up "scrim long game" layout and so on.
Just think how customization is taking over the world. People want everything to fit them perfectly. Old RPG games only allowed you to pick preset characters with 6 different possibilities to choose from but now take Skyrim for example. You can customize every detail down to the shape of his lips and the curves of his eyes. Now I'm not saying I want this much customization in game, but I'm saying I would prefer being able to change the layout at least in some way if possible.
I have looked through a lot of the response and they are all good in their own ways for each person, and it's hard to get one thing perfect that every person can agree on. Now I'm sure you guys get what I'm trying to say here. This idea can go on in many different tangents and I think UWE would choose the best options for them. Even if you think this is a ludicrous idea then do tell why. I can't see really any fall backs, because all of the fallbacks I can see have fixes.
<b>If you don't feel like reading this all, I pretty much said: Customization of the controls for commander = good.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree 100%! I'm working on a mod to tie hotkeys to kTech instead of command card coordinates, as well as to allow players to reorder their UI buttons locally. Right now, Steam doesn't seem to be running too well on my computer, however, so it's a bit tough to test.
The other problem i have is resource nodes bugging and towers not being able to be build there. Also there should be a mechanic that has your drifter continue to try and build a structure even after an ally has walked on the location it was set to build. It's annoying to find that a drifter u wanted to make a resource tower stopped because an ally got in it's way for a second. And possibly timers as to when shades/crags cloaking or umbra abilities will end.
I would really love to be able to learn the basics of commanding without having to inflict my absolute lack of knowledge on other players. Mostly it's just so that I can learn hotkeys, techtrees and the range of different buildings.
If you are in the game, you can open the comsole and type cheats 1 in. The game will start and you can enter the Hive/CC to start playing ALONE.
If you type Lerk/Onos/Fade/Tres/Pres/and more you will instantly get it.
In the modding forum is a NS2 bot wich you can install and try out the commander commands like move/Defend/etc.
While playing alien commander yesterday it struck me that while shades are great for cloaking players and hives, it is too time consuming to navigate to a structure (such as a shade) and then click "cloak" at a given hive. Hotkeys are the natural answer to this, but with the possible large number of structures in late game, one could conceivably run out of hot keys to assign or start forgetting what is assigned to each.
My proposed upgrade to this would be an "ability panel" linked to each hive (or cc) that allowed the commander to activate the pertinent abilities of each structure (like "cloak" from a shade or "distress beacon" from an observatory) by clicking on the cc or hive (or navigating to cc or hive via hotkeys). That way the commander could click "1" for hive #1 and then activate whichever ability he needed much quicker and smoother. Certain abilities (like uproot for whips etc) could be left off of the panel to avoid clutter.
Not so good :( It was laggy, slow mouse acceleration, and non-responsive menus were a huge problem.
<b>What do you love and/or hate about commanding?</b>
I like commanding because it gives me an opportunity to yell at people on the internet. I don't like commanding because it frustrates me to no end, and I'm not a big multi-tasker and cannot keep track of where every player is on my team.
<b>Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?</b>
I avoid it because while I do enjoy RTS gameplay, I just suck with the current interface in NS2 and I'd rather not be the one that determines the fate of the team!
<b>Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?</b>
I have attached a crude diagram of some features that I think could enhance and simplify the commanding experience.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/iI6AR.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Basically, I was trying to make it easier to be able to instruct your team to do specific things using the squad window - such as Squad 2 (2), please go and attack (Q) Crag Hive. You can do all that by pressing 2 + Q + click the Crag Hive.
If you are lost and cannot find your Squad 4, you can hit 4, which selects it, and then hit 4 again, and it will cycle through each player in Squad 4, jumping your screen around to wherever they all are (hopefully together). That means you notice someone in Squad 4 is alone in refinery, you can tell them to get back with the rest of their squad.
Lets say you just finished researching jetporks and you wanted everyone in Squad 1 to come to base and grab one, all you need to do is press 1 + R and they will all get the message to come back.
If you want to issue a command globally, just deselect any squads (esc) and issue your command.
In the beginning of rounds, you do not have much time to spare, so forming squads might be tedious. Of course you can drag on your screen to select the ones you want, and then hit Shift-1 or Shift-2, etc. But marines tend to run and jump a lot, so there is a better way. Each marine starts out listed under the "unassigned" window. You can click and drag the player's name into the squad window that you want them in. To speed it up further, you can select multiples (hold ctrl or shift) and drag them all into a squad at once.
I also know nothing about UIs, these are just my rambling suggestions :D
Not so good :( It was laggy, slow mouse acceleration, and non-responsive menus were a huge problem.
<b>What do you love and/or hate about commanding?</b>
I like commanding because it gives me an opportunity to yell at people on the internet. I don't like commanding because it frustrates me to no end, and I'm not a big multi-tasker and cannot keep track of where every player is on my team.
<b>Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?</b>
I avoid it because while I do enjoy RTS gameplay, I just suck with the current interface in NS2 and I'd rather not be the one that determines the fate of the team!
<b>Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?</b>
I have attached a crude diagram of some features that I think could enhance and simplify the commanding experience.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/iI6AR.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Basically, I was trying to make it easier to be able to instruct your team to do specific things using the squad window - such as Squad 2 (2), please go and attack (Q) Crag Hive. You can do all that by pressing 2 + Q + click the Crag Hive.
If you are lost and cannot find your Squad 4, you can hit 4, which selects it, and then hit 4 again, and it will cycle through each player in Squad 4, jumping your screen around to wherever they all are (hopefully together). That means you notice someone in Squad 4 is alone in refinery, you can tell them to get back with the rest of their squad.
Lets say you just finished researching jetporks and you wanted everyone in Squad 1 to come to base and grab one, all you need to do is press 1 + R and they will all get the message to come back.
If you want to issue a command globally, just deselect any squads (esc) and issue your command.
In the beginning of rounds, you do not have much time to spare, so forming squads might be tedious. Of course you can drag on your screen to select the ones you want, and then hit Shift-1 or Shift-2, etc. But marines tend to run and jump a lot, so there is a better way. Each marine starts out listed under the "unassigned" window. You can click and drag the player's name into the squad window that you want them in. To speed it up further, you can select multiples (hold ctrl or shift) and drag them all into a squad at once.
I also know nothing about UIs, these are just my rambling suggestions :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having squads would make commanding a lot smoother and I really like this layout (besides the hotkey bindings, which should be changeable)
Via other posts, I recently found out that you CAN set control groups, but you have to use the CROUCH key plus the number to do it.
I immediately re-bound crouch to Z when I started the game, so I wasn't able to set control groups for ages.
This is a bug that should be fixed IMO! Make the CTRL key set control groups, NOT the crouch key.
Remove the Alien commander... the job of alien commander could be splited up to gorges and maybe also lerks.
Alien having a commander just doesn't make sense....
Alien having a commander just doesn't make sense....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also please remove the limitation of build location of CC.
Why set a boundary to innovating strategy?
Destruction of power node disables all marine structures.
Maybe having 10 or 20 seconds allowance before all power are really shut down is a gd idea.
I have at least a dozen games under my belt as a commander, for both sides and it is really enjoyable. The alien commander currently feels very lacklustre through, probably because it is a WIP so I will refrain from commenting too much on it until it is a little further down the implementation pipeline.
<b>General</b>
- Allow the commander to select the important structures from the HUD. It is really annoying having to find a specific structure in your base just so you can further your tech.
- The energy resource is confusing because it is not displayed on the HUD, I never know how much I have left for beacons, scans, etc.
- Display researched tech and tech in the process of being researched on the HUD, some sort of small progress bar somewhere would be very helpful IMO. Especially as an alien comm I sometimes lose track of which upgrades I've already unlocked for my team. (Perhaps all unlocked lifeform upgrades could be displayed with an icon somewhere on the HUD)
<b>
Marines</b>
- Give the commander some sort of power grid overlay, or some other way of identifying the radius of a power node's energy circuit. It is frustrating when you build just outside the range of a given power node and just generally are not able to know what power node powers what part of the map. (This is especially the case in regards to some corridors and hallways in between rooms.
- Squads!
- Allow the comm to select a building (or even a marine) to then select (or use hotkey) for nanoshield. This would feel a lot more natural than having to first select nanoshield and then click on a building. (So basically nanoshield would be moved to the 'select' tab of a building) Currently it is very counter-intuitive, especially for new comms.
- Allow buildqueue for ARCs and MACs, usually you want to build several ARcs in a row. (Could even allow queueing of upgrades and tech)
- Allow building on infestation when the cyst is destroyed, having to wait for the infestation to disappear entirely can be annoying when you want to build a quick structure or forward base. In addition, the alien commander can abuse this fact by continuously spamming cysts.
<b>Aliens</b>
- This is probably not easy to do given the implementation of the commander's overview but being able to place cysts on walls (and maybe even ceilings) would help A LOT. Cysts on the floor are too easily spotted and knifed.
- Allow shade to passive cloak buildings, I really don't see any argument against this. Having to constantly click the shade and the camouflage ability just seems like a stupid way to keep the alien commander busy (since he has very little other things to do currently)
- Display available hives on the HUD so you can easily click an icon and be sent to that hive
- Make it easier to spread cysts from the HUD, without having to select a hive.
- Allow the comm to catalyze things by selecting on that egg or structure being built and then clicking 'catalyze', rather than having to select catalyze and then click on a structure. (See nanoshield suggestion with marines). It feels counter-intuitive in its current state.
- Drifer should not cost t.res since this puts total cost for an alien RT at 12, where as the marine one is at 10. (AND can be recycled) P.res would be a better idea, since it also would cut into the comm's ability to spam cysts to clear mines and annoy enemy.
- Need to be able to mass select and root/unroot whips.
- Crags should automatically pop umbra (on some sort of cooldown) when being shot or something nearby is being shot. It's another one of those pointless micro actions the alien comm has to attend to.
- Display available gorges on the HUD, and allow camera to move over to them when you click the icon (similar to drifters), this would benefit gorge-commander interaction.
<!--quoteo(post=1920207:date=Mar 31 2012, 07:17 PM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Mar 31 2012, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1920207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>General</b>
- Allow the commander to select the important structures from the HUD. It is really annoying having to find a specific structure in your base just so you can further your tech.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is easier said then done, especially with multiple structures of the same type (tons of Armories). I would also argue that putting all these options in the HUD removes too much micro. Not to mention that it would clutter up the HUD quite a bit. Imho it's something that becomes less of an issue the more experienced you get at commanding. Because over time you will figure out your personal "base layout" and always build that way which makes locating buildings very easy.
Also: You can use Squads to bind Structures to hotkeys, Press crouch+a number
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The energy resource is confusing because it is not displayed on the HUD, I never know how much I have left for beacons, scans, etc.
- Display researched tech and tech in the process of being researched on the HUD, some sort of small progress bar somewhere would be very helpful IMO. Especially as an alien comm I sometimes lose track of which upgrades I've already unlocked for my team. (Perhaps all unlocked lifeform upgrades could be displayed with an icon somewhere on the HUD)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Agreed on the energy resource, i like how the scan is now so easily spammable compared to NS1, but this leads to the energy being constantly empty. Maybe have Individual icons for each Observatory and CC on top of the screen that show the energy levels. That way the commander has always an better overview on his current energy.
- I believe one of the last builds added an progress-bar for research? Not too sure right now, because the 201 build added so much new UI in general.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>
Marines</b>
- Give the commander some sort of power grid overlay, or some other way of identifying the radius of a power node's energy circuit. It is frustrating when you build just outside the range of a given power node and just generally are not able to know what power node powers what part of the map. (This is especially the case in regards to some corridors and hallways in between rooms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes this is an very annoying issue, nothing worse then building up an PG and realizing the Powernode is inside the Hive room behind 2 whips.
Two solutions for that:
A: When the Commander selects a Powernode it will highlight the area it's supplying with energy. Probably easier to get into the game, but not the best solution. Can't depend on people having memorized all the Powernode locations, especially not when custom maps come around.
B: When the Commander has selected a structure to drop, hovering it over an room will highlight the room's Powergrid and the Powernode it's connected to. I would love that, because it's easy, intuitive and would probably look really cool.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Squads!
- Allow the comm to select a building (or even a marine) to then select (or use hotkey) for nanoshield. This would feel a lot more natural than having to first select nanoshield and then click on a building. (So basically nanoshield would be moved to the 'select' tab of a building) Currently it is very counter-intuitive, especially for new comms.
- Allow buildqueue for ARCs and MACs, usually you want to build several ARcs in a row. (Could even allow queueing of upgrades and tech)
- Allow building on infestation when the cyst is destroyed, having to wait for the infestation to disappear entirely can be annoying when you want to build a quick structure or forward base. In addition, the alien commander can abuse this fact by continuously spamming cysts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Squads = Crouch + Number key
- Disagree on the nano shield, i like the way it currently works because it fits nicely into the hotkeys to spam meds/ammo. Having to select a target first would be counter intuitive to the way Marine commanding works with the hotkeys.
- Agreed on the build queue for MACs/ARCs. But no big fan of doing it with upgrades. Unlike he MACs/ARCs there is only a finite amount of upgrades to research. So imho it's something that shouldn't be made too "automated" but rather should require the Commanders attention.
- Nope, gotta wait for that infestation to vanish. Might be annoying at times but it gives Kharaa some time to react to that destroyed cyst before Marines get an PG up.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Aliens</b>
- Allow shade to passive cloak buildings, I really don't see any argument against this. Having to constantly click the shade and the camouflage ability just seems like a stupid way to keep the alien commander busy (since he has very little other things to do currently)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you realize the Khamm doesn't have that much to do, yet you still want to remove things he can do? ;)
The cloak runs on energy so it makes sense having to manage it, maybe just change the way it works?
Instead of activating the cloak with an fixed amount of energy for an fixed amount of time, make it an "Activate/Deactivate" toggle.
Activating it costs a little bit upfront energy but the shade will cloak stuff until it runs out of energy or is deactivated.
Alternate suggestion: Let other Kharaa players activate the cloak by "using" the shade. But that would impact overall Kharaa gameplay/balance and require an similar change to all chambers.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Display available hives on the HUD so you can easily click an icon and be sent to that hive
- Make it easier to spread cysts from the HUD, without having to select a hive.
- Allow the comm to catalyze things by selecting on that egg or structure being built and then clicking 'catalyze', rather than having to select catalyze and then click on a structure. (See nanoshield suggestion with marines). It feels counter-intuitive in its current state.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- I would suggest doing the same things with the Hives as with the CC's/Observatory. Give them icons on top of the HUD that show the energy status of each hive.
- That's something i also thought about, but i think the Khamm controls in general are in for an big overhaul once we got all the chambers/features in.
- See Nano-Shield ;)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Need to be able to mass select and root/unroot whips.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- This is already possible but quite bothersome to do, because it doesn't work if your group selection includes anything other then a Whip or you have mature and normal ones in the selection. So i would love to see an "double click selects all buildings/units of this type on screen" feature. That would certainly help with a lot of Kharaa micro. It's also an staple feature for RTS games, so adding it should be a no-brainer.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Crags should automatically pop umbra (on some sort of cooldown) when being shot or something nearby is being shot. It's another one of those pointless micro actions the alien comm has to attend to.
- Display available gorges on the HUD, and allow camera to move over to them when you click the icon (similar to drifters), this would benefit gorge-commander interaction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- See Shades. I don't think removing even more micro from the Khamm is an good idea because as it is you often end up not having enough to do anyway. So i'm just gonna repeat my previous suggestion: Let Kharaa players trigger the umbra by using the crag. Doesn't remove the micro completely from the Khamm instead the Kharaa team simply helps with it and also gets some interaction with buildings. There is a problem tho, Kharaa on the ground could end up wasting all the energy that the Khamm would maybe have rather used on the targeted abilities (Phantasm, Babblers).
- Interesting idea but i don't really see how useful this would be. Because the Khamm-Gorge interaction is still very lacking. So giving the Khamm an icon to jump to the gorges would be kinda pointless right now and probably confuse new Khamm players. Hitting that icon and jumping to the gorge leads to the expectation that more and deeper interaction is somehow possible when it's actually not.
I still like the basic idea, it clearly signals the Khamm that gorges are of importance to him. So maybe there will be some real and direct Gorge-Khamm interaction in the future which would make this actually useful? Let's hope so! :)
To be fair, the alien khamm not having a lot to do is a poor excuse to keep in these kinds of tedious tasks that could easily be automated. With this logic they might as well implement a minigame for the alien khamm to go through if he wants to catalyze something, since he has nothing else to do anyway. I'm sure the alien khamm will have enough to do when he's fully and properly implemented, then there really won't be any need for him to waste time on repetitive tasks like shade cloak and crag umbra.
In regards to buildings on HUDs, I suppose you have a point, though perhaps it could be consider for those buildings that you generally only build one of anyway, like the arms lab and the protolab.
Didn't know about the command groups for buildings, so guess I will use that for now :)
And for that we need an carefull balance between "things he has to do", "things he can do" and "things he should not do".
As such i really don't like the idea of automating too much, after all those are "aliens" and not humans using nanites ;)
If you automate too much of this stuff you will just lower the overall skill ceiling for the khamm, making it boring to play him.
Because that's the other side of "making things easy and simple", you quickly end up making things too easy and obvious and thus playing khamm would boil down to following a cookie-cutter strategy that always works when he doesn't have a lot of different options/variety in his actions. This btw also applies to your Marine comm suggestion to put upgrade structures into the HUD, these things just lower the overall skill ceiling way too much and shift the balance a tad too much in favor of "easy too play".
Sure i know where you are coming from with that suggestion, playing the khamm effectivley can be really annoying late-game when you have quite a lot of buildings around the map. But i think that's more of an issues with the current controls that are not really intuitive for the way khamm plays right now. Especially the need to select specific buildings to trigger abilities.
But thinking up a working and final control sheme right now would be kinda pointless with a whole upgrade chamber and all those targeted abilities missing.
So imho just making the AoE abilities usable by every alien, by using the chambers could be a good fix for now.
It would also help making kharaa feel a little bit less dependant on the khamm overall, as it should be. Because kharaa organize from the bottom up and not from the top down like marines.