Pirates of the Burning Sea
DiscoZombie
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18951Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">anyone looking forward to it?</div><a href="http://www.burningsea.com/" target="_blank">http://www.burningsea.com/</a>
anyone watching this game? it was one of the MMOs that wasn't really on my radar (and its name makes me think of communicable diseases for some reason - maybe because it rhymes with 'burning pee')... but now it's almost out and sounds pretty cool. I hear it's going to be kinda like EVE, with sea pirates instead of space pirates. economics-based gameplay with most or all of your time spent out at sea engaged in ship vs. ship combat, smuggling, running missions, conquering territory in pvp, etc. I applied for the beta test 2 years ago, no luck yet <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
anyone watching this game? it was one of the MMOs that wasn't really on my radar (and its name makes me think of communicable diseases for some reason - maybe because it rhymes with 'burning pee')... but now it's almost out and sounds pretty cool. I hear it's going to be kinda like EVE, with sea pirates instead of space pirates. economics-based gameplay with most or all of your time spent out at sea engaged in ship vs. ship combat, smuggling, running missions, conquering territory in pvp, etc. I applied for the beta test 2 years ago, no luck yet <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Comments
Sounds like an improvement to me, alright.
I've heard alot of mixed opinions about the gameplay. I've heard that the territory map will reset after 2 months (lame) and that all "Battles" will become instanced when you engage with someone (lamelame). I guess these are all subject to change though.
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The territory map only resets when one side gains control of the Caribbean. Once that happens, the three powers (England, Spain, and France) sign a peace treaty, all ports are returned to their original owners, the winning side gets its prizes, the losing sides get a few minor buffs to help them in the next round, and the fighting starts all over again.
Battles are all instances, because otherwise the open sea would have to be to scale and it would take hours and hours and hours to reach any port from any other port, like in the real Caribbean. The instances aren't completely closed; if you sail past a battle on the high seas you can still join in the fight.
And the similarities to EVE are mostly because you identify so closely with the ship you sail and the economy is 100% player driven. There are many, many huge differences, the two biggest (IMHO, others might choose alternate things that they think are different) being the ability to run around and hit people with swords and board someone else's ship and capture it, and the whole Caribbean setting instead of space.
Eve kinda interested me, but sadly it has the most trite combat system I have yet encountered in an MMO. I dearly hope this game is better.
I pay attention to it, but I remain cautious. Too many things could go wrong or be plain boring. I'm hoping that there'll either be a trial of sorts (something like an open beta) or else enough word of mouth and reviews for me to decide whether I want it or not.
Eve kinda interested me, but sadly it has the most trite combat system I have yet encountered in an MMO. I dearly hope this game is better.
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There is an open beta planned for soon-ish. The combat, at least the ship vs ship combat, is quite fun from the little I've played. Certainly more fun than my 14 days of EVE combat. I can't speak about the avatar combat thoughs ince that's been added since I last played.
I'm not saying that level will be pointless in burning sea, but, if there is a high level player which has bought his account, you should be able to tell.
Anyway, I would take the whole "level doesn't decide" thing with a pinch of salt. From what I've been able to glean from the ship list, as ships get bigger they increasingly favour large-caliber fixed guns over "turret" swivel guns. Even the largest ships have swivel guns, but these are low in number and caliber. The largest ships also have fixed guns pointing fore and aft, though in substantially smaller numbers than the broadside cannons.
This means that while a large ship-of-the-line's heavy firepower is very much concentrated on the broadside, it is still able to fire in all directions. It has blind spots, but these are only relative blind spots - they're relative positions where the battleship's firepower is greatly diminished, but not non-existant.
So what I think will happen in the typical very-small-versus-very-large-ship fight is that the small ship will be able to successfully stay away from the large ship's broadsides (or be sunk in a single volley, no doubt), but will continuously take hit from the large ship's other weaponry. The smaller ship will also, by definition, have less powerful armament, and be less tough. Eventually, the smaller ship may even inflict greater damage on the larger ship, but it will be unable to completely avoid damage and will, in the end, lose the fight.
Smaller ships may prove effective in weakening larger ships, or perhaps even sinking them if they attack in packs. But a significantly smaller ship that sinks a significantly larger ship single-handedly will be the exception, rather than the rule, as I believe the developers have stated as well.
I think what will usually happen in such fights is that the small ship will rely on its maneuverability to escape, refusing the larger ship its typical advantage of greater speed. In short, I expect that "ganking" people with a ship that significantly outclasses theirs will be difficult, but don't expect to be zipping around the ocean in a sloop taking down ships-of-the-line.
Don't you just hate that? But that's closed betas in a nutshell. The eventual open beta should be more accessible.
Anyway, I would take the whole "level doesn't decide" thing with a pinch of salt. From what I've been able to glean from the ship list, as ships get bigger they increasingly favour large-caliber fixed guns over "turret" swivel guns. Even the largest ships have swivel guns, but these are low in number and caliber. The largest ships also have fixed guns pointing fore and aft, though in substantially smaller numbers than the broadside cannons.
This means that while a large ship-of-the-line's heavy firepower is very much concentrated on the broadside, it is still able to fire in all directions. It has blind spots, but these are only relative blind spots - they're relative positions where the battleship's firepower is greatly diminished, but not non-existant.
So what I think will happen in the typical very-small-versus-very-large-ship fight is that the small ship will be able to successfully stay away from the large ship's broadsides (or be sunk in a single volley, no doubt), but will continuously take hit from the large ship's other weaponry. The smaller ship will also, by definition, have less powerful armament, and be less tough. Eventually, the smaller ship may even inflict greater damage on the larger ship, but it will be unable to completely avoid damage and will, in the end, lose the fight.
Smaller ships may prove effective in weakening larger ships, or perhaps even sinking them if they attack in packs. But a significantly smaller ship that sinks a significantly larger ship single-handedly will be the exception, rather than the rule, as I believe the developers have stated as well.
I think what will usually happen in such fights is that the small ship will rely on its maneuverability to escape, refusing the larger ship its typical advantage of greater speed. In short, I expect that "ganking" people with a ship that significantly outclasses theirs will be difficult, but don't expect to be zipping around the ocean in a sloop taking down ships-of-the-line.
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Nah, you've got it all wrong, because even though the smaller ship takes damage, it's spread out among all its armor. The big ship, however, takes all its damage in the back or wherever the smaller ship attacks it, and therefore gets sunk because it can't keep up with the smaller ship. In addition, the smaller ship is able to close in to optimum range for its cannons, fire, and then evade, all while staying out of the optimum range of the larger cannons on the larger ship. The smaller ship is also harder to hit, because it's smaller, so it gets an accuracy bonus against the larger ship, which gets an accuracy penalty.
Trust me. I ganked a ship with 50 or 75 cannons or whatever in a 20 gun ship at PAX. It's skill what does the trick, not ship level. Sure, the crappiest ship won't sink a Ship of the Line, but it's not like WoW or something where a level 70 can pwn a 60 who can pwn a 50 who can pwn a 40 who can pwn a 30 who can pwn a 20 who can pwn a 10. Everything from level 70 to level 10 will be viable in a fight.
(By the way, by modern warfare standards, your bomber analogy actually supports MY view of things. Heavy bombers are being phased out of aerial combat because they're too slow and vulnerable, just like battleships were phased out of naval combat after the second world war. But I know what you meant - you refer to the world war two era bombers.)
So basically, if I want to sail a bigger ship I need to have escorts at all times or risk gankification?
(By the way, by modern warfare standards, your bomber analogy actually supports MY view of things. Heavy bombers are being phased out of aerial combat because they're too slow and vulnerable, just like battleships were phased out of naval combat after the second world war. But I know what you meant - you refer to the world war two era bombers.)
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Like I said, it's the skill of the player that matters far more than what ship they're sailing. All the ships have strengthe and weaknesses, not certain ships they can defeat and certain ships they're weak against. Think of it like chess: a rook isn't better against a pawn and worse against a bishop, or something. It just depends how you use them.
And if you want to sail a 100 gun ship around the Caribbean alone, you're just ASKING for ganking. First, every pirate on the high seas is going to want that ship for themselves, or at least the ph4t cargo you're probably carrying. Second, you're in a very expensive ship and you're completely alone, so everyone would jump at the chance to take someone high down a peg, even if it's risky. I mean, hey, you're alone! They can just de-mast or something so they can run away if things get hairy. Third, the other two nations are always eager to gain an upper hand in the war, so an unescorted flagship is a tempting target.
The titans in EVE never fly around alone, and they're like 1000 times stronger than anything. Even a 100 gun ship can't begin to approach the strength of a titan, so you can imagine why a 100 gunner would never sail alone, or wouldn't want to make a habit of it. A ship of the line is name that because it's designed to be part of a line in a fleet, not sail around ganking everything on its own because it's so uber.
So basically, if I want to sail a bigger ship I need to have escorts at all times or risk gankification? [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1644763:date=Aug 20 2007, 07:12 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Aug 20 2007, 07:12 PM) [snapback]1644763[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
[...] if you want to sail a 100 gun ship around the Caribbean alone, you're just ASKING for ganking. [...] a 100 gunner would never sail alone, or wouldn't want to make a habit of it. [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1644767:date=Aug 20 2007, 07:33 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Aug 20 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]1644767[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
That's a yes, then?
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<!--quoteo(post=1644770:date=Aug 20 2007, 07:51 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Aug 20 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]1644770[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It's a no. [...]
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confusedfighter is confused.
It's a no. Like I said, it matters more who's captaining the thing than what they're sailing. A good player will most likely win against a bad player, and evenly matched players will be evenly matched. It's not like WoW where if a warrior finds a rogue the fight's over for the rogue unless the warrior really blows.
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Disclaimer: I know nothing of this game.
But that isn't true in itself. Ships of the Line and their Spanish Galleon cousins were formidable precisely because of volume of their broadside. I never liked Pirates! for the ability to sail 'between' volleys, which was just silly. In short, they didn't travel fast enough.
If you're sailing around in a War Canoe, you shouldn't be defeating a Frigate, period.
confusedfighter is confused.
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You're ASKING for ganking. Everyone and their mother is going to try to take you on, because if they lose they just get sunk in their crappy ship, but if you lose they capture/kill a Ship of the Line and get tons of awesomepoints. That doesn't mean you're neccessarily going to die, just like a Titan in EVE could probably fight off tons of people; you're just going to attract a lot of attention.
The way the ship death system works is like this. Every ship has a stat, called durability I believe. When a ship is built, it has X amount of durability. A raft (which is your basic "shuttle/pod" craft that you will abandon smaller craft with) will have 1 durability, and all ships which have been stolen, either from PCs or NPCs has 1 durability. Whenever a ship is disabled in combat (any one face of hull reduced to 0) you are disabled and returned to the nearest friendly city. Your ships durability is reduced by 1. If your ship's durability is reduced to 0, the ship and all "fixed" upgrades which can not be removed will be destroyed. If you are left without a ship because of this you will automatically get a new ship that is somewhat below your level which will allow you to get money for a new craft without being totally boned.
It's worth noting that some small low level "frigates" are actually the escape ships for large vessels (like ships of the line) if they get captured.
If so, what are typical high-end ships that are suited to sailing around by their lonesome? The trend of "smaller ship beats larger ship" needs to be broken at some point, or everyone will end up sailing in the smallest rowing boat they can find. The typical high-end "solo" ship, then, will feature a good mixture of toughness, weaponry and agility. Any examples?
<!--quoteo(post=1644949:date=Aug 21 2007, 05:52 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Aug 21 2007, 05:52 PM) [snapback]1644949[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
aren't the big ships like ships of the line also the fastest ships when traveling with the wind? Understandable that they're the least maneuverable but I would think they'd be able to escape a confrontation by traveling with the wind using their huge sails.
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Realistically, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed" target="_blank">hull speed</a> means that bigger (more accurately longer) ships can sail faster, but that's a theoretical value. In practice, a number of factors play their part, perhaps most importantly the ship's rigging and the current wind velocity. In light winds, a large square-rigger such as the typical ship-of-the-line will be severely handicapped and smaller, lighter boats will literally be able to sail circles around the bigger ship faster than it can turn.
Once winds get strong enough that the smaller ships are limited by their hull speed, however, the larger ships will be able to outrun them at will.
However, that's real life. I can't speak for the game.
<!--fonto:Fixedsys--><span style="font-family:Fixedsys"><!--/fonto-->CLASS______________SHIP_______________SIZE______TURNING_____TYPE______SPEED
Sloop______________Sloop______________Small_____Tight_______Warship___Fast
Sloop______________Sloop_of_War_______Small_____Tight_______Warship___Fast_
Sloop______________Royal_Sloop________Small_____Tight_______Warship___Fast
Brig_______________Brigantine_________Medium____Medium______Warship___Medium
Brig_______________Brig_______________Medium____Medium______Warship___Medium
Brig_______________Brig_of_War________Medium____Medium______Warship___Medium
Combat_Galleon_____Fast_Galleon_______Large_____Wide________Warship___Slow
Combat_Galleon_____War_Galleon________Large_____Wide________Warship___Slow
Combat_Galleon_____Flag_Galleon_______Large_____Wide________Warship___Slow
Frigate____________Frigate____________Large_____Wide________Warship___Fast
Frigate____________Large_Frigate______Large_____Wide________Warship___Fast
Frigate____________Ship_of_the_Line___Large_____Wide________Warship___Fast
CLASS_______________SHIP______________CREW______CANNONS_____CARGO_____MIN_CREW
Sloop_______________Sloop_____________75________12__________40________8
Sloop_______________Sloop_of_War______100_______16__________50________10
Sloop_______________Royal_Sloop_______125_______20__________60________12
Brig________________Brigantine________125_______20__________60________12
Brig________________Brig______________150_______24__________70________14
Brig________________Brig_of_War_______200_______32__________80________18
Combat_Galleon______Fast_Galleon______160_______24__________80________16
Combat_Galleon______War_Galleon_______200_______32__________90________20
Combat_Galleon______Flag_Galleon______250_______40__________100_______24
Frigate_____________Frigate___________200_______32__________80________16
Frigate_____________Large_Frigate_____250_______40__________90________20
Frigate_____________Ship_of_the_Line__300_______48__________100_______24<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
Do I have any idea how many of these ships will be in PotBS or whether they'll have the same mechanics? No.
The bigger boats are faster, but their turning and acceleration is much poorer, so in reality it doesn't get you much compared to more limber ships. As for which ship you end up sailing around once you're level 50 (max), it depends on your tastes, not the power of the ship. Like I said, it's all about player skill, not some number attached to your ship's stats. Some players will want a large ship with lots of room for cargo and guns, and some players will want a smaller ship that can harass the enemy and kill their crew before moving in to board. It also depends a little on your profession: privateers are experts at seizing ships, merchants are better at support and running away, and navy officers can blow the crap out of enemies, although the differences aren't gigantic, and the pirate is a jack of all trades anyways.
A xebec, for instance, might be a good ship to sail around in endgame. Then again, a galleon or something might suit you better.
Next, I will make a completely unresearched prognosis that I, nevertheless, fear might be rather accurate.
*ahem*
English: 10% of players
French: 5% of players
Spanish: 5% of players
Pirates: 80% of players
Now, again due to my limited knowledge of the game, I propose three possible scenarios.
Number 1:
The pirates are rather lawless and owe each other no allegiance, and are therefore so busy fighting amongst each other that they cannot rule the sea despite their overwhelming numbers.
Number 2:
The pirates rule the seas with an iron fist. Any english, spanish or french ship that leaves port is swarmed by hordes of pirates within seconds. Irregardless of their ship, they are almost instantly defeated by weight of sheer numbers (and because the pirate ranks are filled with numerous captured english, french and spanish vessels). The three nations can only roam the seas in large convoys, and even these are often plundered and sunk by similarly large pirate fleets.
Number 3:
My prognosis is wrong and the division of players will be much more even for some reason (my guess would be gameplay mechanics that discourage stacking).
If anyone with knowledge of the game knows which one it'll be, please assuage my fears. I hope it's scenario number three.
Actually, <a href="http://www.burningsea.com/explore/library/ship-guide/" target="_blank">yes</a>. That ship guide is sort of outdated and many of the stats aren't current, plus it's missing some ships, but it gives you a good idea of the variety and relative power of all the ships available.
The bigger boats are faster, but their turning and acceleration is much poorer, so in reality it doesn't get you much compared to more limber ships. As for which ship you end up sailing around once you're level 50 (max), it depends on your tastes, not the power of the ship. Like I said, it's all about player skill, not some number attached to your ship's stats. Some players will want a large ship with lots of room for cargo and guns, and some players will want a smaller ship that can harass the enemy and kill their crew before moving in to board. It also depends a little on your profession: privateers are experts at seizing ships, merchants are better at support and running away, and navy officers can blow the crap out of enemies, although the differences aren't gigantic, and the pirate is a jack of all trades anyways.
A xebec, for instance, might be a good ship to sail around in endgame. Then again, a galleon or something might suit you better.
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that ship guide is incredibly detailed. it looks like there's about 100 ships and each one has about 5 to 10 pages written on it...