Fog and Miasma
Quaunaut
The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
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So, I'm wondering, is fog going to be making a comeback for NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats down to the mapper <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I hope theres more steam/fog/smoke and a bigger range of lighting in maps.
It was, but it seemed to be something the entirety of the release maps did as time went on, which seems like a change in map focus.
but seems like thats what the ppl want
I guess I am not "people" as that was certainly not something I wanted. One of the reasons I loved coming across new maps in the new versions, looking out at the windows into space added alot of atmosphere for me.
I miss the fog and stuff, I hope it makes a come back.
That's basically why most of the maps these days are dumbed down. When CAL started a league for NS, they started moaning about "LULZ SERVAR R LAGGEH, FIX TEH PROBLEM!" and the quality / atmosphere of maps slowly declined. What irks me is that after all of that whining and moaning and the issues solved, they dump NS like yesterdays garbage and pretend as if it never existed.
NS would have been far better off if CAL never came into the NS scene tbh.
Too bad that the old versions of bast, nancy, hera, eclipse and nothing have the onos hull issue else I'd probably replace the new with the old in an instant.
Because competitive players obviously can't form coherent sentences, right?
You can go ahead and make your own game where you can't hit anything no matter how well you aim or which team you're on, but I wouldn't play it. You can also make a game where you can't see anything coming at you and the only thing you can do when you hear something is to stand around like an idiot and spray around you in a spherical pattern. - Unfortunately you'll only have succeeded at making a game entirely consisting of luck and nothing else, the only way to get better at that game is with some awesome gamma ramps which bad players wouldn't know how to do. This would effectively cause further separation between skill(lol).
Oh of course you'd make the alien part fun because marines would never actually kill you.
NS would have been far better off if CAL never came into the NS scene tbh.
Too bad that the old versions of bast, nancy, hera, eclipse and nothing have the onos hull issue else I'd probably replace the new with the old in an instant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS wouldn't be <i>better</i> without CAL/ANSL ..., but it would be more atmospheric.
<!--quoteo(post=1657646:date=Oct 25 2007, 06:23 AM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Oct 25 2007, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because competitive players obviously can't form coherent sentences, right?
You can go ahead and make your own game where you can't hit anything no matter how well you aim or which team you're on, but I wouldn't play it. You can also make a game where you can't see anything coming at you and the only thing you can do when you hear something is to stand around like an idiot and spray around you in a spherical pattern. - Unfortunately you'll only have succeeded at making a game entirely consisting of luck and nothing else, the only way to get better at that game is with some awesome gamma ramps which bad players wouldn't know how to do. This would effectively cause further separation between skill(lol).
Oh of course you'd make the alien part fun because marines would never actually kill you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please don't respond to a troll by trolling yourself. This is why competitive payers get a bad rap sometimes. He's talking about an atmospheric element and you attack his skill(read: the two are not related, and you make an unfounded assumption regardless). I sincerely doubt you've even played competitive so please keep your personal attacks to yourself.
No I didn't.
That's true you didn't. You just compared having atmospheric effects to spraying randomly in a circle.
Sorry I called you a troll for skill bashing; I was wrong. You're simply trolling with gross over generalizations.
However, I'm not sure why you mention skill at all.
Oh, so you mean to tell me that "NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE" is an atmospheric effect?
Edit: I guess it is, but how can you aim when you can't see? Doesn't not being able to 'aim' take away skill from the game? No?
Depends on what kind of atmopheric effect it is, I mean acid mist could make ya blind J/K
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I miss the atmosphere from 1.04 sound/light&darness play/particle effects/foggy areas/<u><b>DOORS</b></u>. 1.04 maps are incompatible with the current NS, due to clipping problems and changes in the fgd and entities working differently. So yeah, simply replacing the maps with older versions can't be done. And also shouldn't be done since they are quite unoptimised and buggy in some cases.
However it is quite possible to create an atmospheric map, while staying within the engine limits. 1.04 was just of a over enthusiastic approach from mappers to put in a lot of stuff to make the map sexy without much regard to optimising or even staying within goldSRC guidlines <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Another thing I miss is the ability to actually build a defensive area and really lock down areas with turretfarms/oc+dc farms (yknow a RTS element that was at one time in this game? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />). But yeah, goldSRC didn't like that either. It did add a lot to the dynamic (player created) atmosphere though.
I can easily see through walls, I can't see through sprites obstructing my view though.
You shouldn't be able to see through walls. Turn it off. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If you can't aim at something because it's partially obscured in fog that's your problem for going into an area of alien advantage. These kinds of things are tools for the mappers to use when balancing a map.
If you don't like it that's your prerogative, however a large portion of the NS Community does like it. It adds depth to the game while also making it look better. No amount of Reductio ad Absurdium will change that.
But then I'd be terrible at this game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you can't aim at something because it's partially obscured in fog that's your problem for going into an area of alien advantage. These kinds of things are tools for the mappers to use when balancing a map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh so what you're saying is that marines are supposed to stay in marine start and not leave anywhere?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you don't like it that's your prerogative, however a large portion of the NS Community does like it. It adds depth to the game while also making it look better. No amount of Reductio ad Absurdium will change that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Large portion? Way to pull statistics out of your butt crack.
I'm no expert on the source engine, but my understanding is that using fog correctly can actually save resources due to telling the engine not to render objects behind the fog. With the expectations of larger levels and open environments, wouldn't we see more use of fog to make maps more playable?
^ Everyone read this again.
My guess is ns2 maps will have guidelines for perfomance as well but obviously the upgraded engine allows for more leeway. That said I'm not a fan of adding crates, fog, pitch darkness for the sake of "cover," if a room is well designed all that stuff isnt needed. Many of the current ns maps are good in this way. While a map should have its own theam adding useless props and effects useally ends of hindering gameplay and server performance.
I'm no expert on the source engine, but my understanding is that using fog correctly can actually save resources due to telling the engine not to render objects behind the fog. With the expectations of larger levels and open environments, wouldn't we see more use of fog to make maps more playable?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Different kind of fog. The fog you're referring to is the kind that gets thicker as distances get larger, and since we never have such distances in NS maps (until now?), it's not needed, plus it just looks weird with actual fog inside a spaceship/station. It also doesn't require entities as such, just one global entity that sets the cutoff distance.
Atmospheric fog is placed out like any other detail, and normally isn't impossible to see through.
but we have an advantage this time, source sucks at particles, but the ep2 engine's particle engine is by far the best thing valve has put forth in years.
<Reductio ad Absurdium>
<Ignores quoted portion of text><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry I don't have exact statistics on who cares about atmospheric gameplay exactly, but judging by the facts a) most of the people in this topic have posted in support of atmospheric effects, and b) NS is an atmospheric game thereby drawing players who like to play such games I feel justified in saying a large portion of the community wants NS2 to be atmospheric.
On topic, I'm pro-atmospheric enhancement, and would love to see the return or addition of different types of fog, smoke, mist (in alien controlled areas), reduced lighting and other such things. These are abandoned, overrun space stations or colonies that are lost in the deep of space. It should be atmospheric, we are fighting for the survival of the human species!
Apparently, you haven't been around long enough to know anything about anything in particular.
Hypothesis:
Killkrazy is a newbie who is also 12 years old.
Procedure:
Troll newbie on internet forums and observe subtle traits.
Observation:
Newbie gets trolled on internet forums. Newbie substitutes Cs for Ks in his name. Newbie gets worked up about all points troller makes, no matter the content. Newbie doesn't have the logical need to make sense.
Conclusion:
Killkrazy is 12 year old newbie.
I just won you your science fair. Make sure to copypasta the four parts correctly and explain to the judges thoroughly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry I don't have exact statistics on who cares about atmospheric gameplay exactly, but judging by the facts a) most of the people in this topic have posted in support of atmospheric effects, and b) NS is an atmospheric game thereby drawing players who like to play such games I feel justified in saying a large portion of the community wants NS2 to be atmospheric.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
a) Oh okay, I see what demographic you're aiming for.
b) NS is an <b>competitive</b> game thereby drawing <b>competitive</b> players who like to play such games I feel justified in saying a large portion of the community wants NS2 to be <b>competitive</b>.
Once again, it all depends on what you mean by atmospheric. I'm only against using darkness in NS2 for the atmosphere, I'm for the ambient noises (as long as they aren't loud at all) and blood splatters and computer monitors and all things like that.
We should really split this discussion into two threads, one about the level of darkness and the other about ambiance.