Lerk without limits
eoy
Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32860Members
Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32860Members
<div class="IPBDescription">looping in the air since 2008?</div>With the discussion around camera tilting for skulks climbing on walls, I got the idea of Lerks being able to do loops in the air. Basicly you could just keep moving your mouse upwards and you would never hit the "roof". It would open room for some very interesting lerking. The noob lerks could just keep on going like normal, but the pro lerks that develop a skill for it could start utilizing these loops.
Ofcourse, if you loop a lot you would get very dizzy, but that's something the player has to factor in aswell <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
For an idea of how it could work physics-wise, check this awsome classic dosgame: <a href="http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/game/139" target="_blank">http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/game/139</a>.
Basicly if there's no air under your wings, you drop down quite fast, and you need to build up some speed if you want to loop.
Ofcourse, if you loop a lot you would get very dizzy, but that's something the player has to factor in aswell <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
For an idea of how it could work physics-wise, check this awsome classic dosgame: <a href="http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/game/139" target="_blank">http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/game/139</a>.
Basicly if there's no air under your wings, you drop down quite fast, and you need to build up some speed if you want to loop.
Comments
I second the bats idea. It would allow the lerk to be more of an ambusher like the skulk.
however i dont like the idea of the lerk doing loops. its not a jet powered fighter plane, it beats its wings to shift air for momentum. i cant think of any bird/bat that can do a genuine loop-da-loop in real life. sure sparrows etc can pull of some pretty sweet moves, but cant do an actual loop....
sure it would be fun, but it would make the lerk flight less realistic in my opinion, and make it look a bit gimmicky.
EDIT: having said that, there's plenty of real-life tricks they could give the lerk to improve its flight (and make it more fun), for example this barrel-roll sort of move...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuntAdMHXfY&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuntAdMHXfY...feature=related</a>
barrel-roll lulz
however i dont like the idea of the lerk doing loops. its not a jet powered fighter plane, it beats its wings to shift air for momentum. i cant think of any bird/bat that can do a genuine loop-da-loop in real life. sure sparrows etc can pull of some pretty sweet moves, but cant do an actual loop....
sure it would be fun, but it would make the lerk flight less realistic in my opinion, and make it look a bit gimmicky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I study bats for a living. Currently doing my PhD on their long distance navigation systems and I can tell you for certain that they can do loop-da-loops. I've seen it personally when they try (and successfully) avoid my traps at the last minute. Bats are far more maneuverable than birds dude to their wing structure being less ridged. They are not as stronger flyer's but with exception of fantails they can fly circles around any bird dude to being able for fold a pocket of air inside one wing while beating the other. They can turn on a dime. As lerks look like they have similar wings to a bat they should be able to do the simlar things. Of course we can always suspend some believe as after all this is a computer game! Regardless it would be a game play issue not a "is it realistic" one.
during your studies have you ever heard of bat bombs? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bombs" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bombs</a>
yeah i figured if any flying animal was capable of doing loops, it would be a bat - if they have to catch flying bugs mid-air, they have to be very manouverable! i also like how they can do the hovar-without-making noise trick... reminds me of a certain type of scorpian...
and youre right, a lerk wings do resemble bats... but their body is more like a demented eagle/frog hybrid. either way it isnt an actual real life animal, so i guess the devs can just invent their own flight system. as long as it looks sort of natural (people cant do 5 loops in a row in the same spot) i'd be ok with it. maybe with the momentum of a steep downward glide you could pull one off, or make it so you have to flap the wings a few times when doing a loop...
but as you said, it all just comes down to the gameplay.
lerk loop. (and why not other air fighter manouvers)
grabbing onto ceilings and walls. (with slow crawling)
at first i thought this topic was gonna be about flying up and up (open environments) to which i'd have to say.. it's more of a bat, not a bird.. it doesn't gain -that- much altitude, and in-game (instead of having a roof that you hit in an open environment) that means your acceleration up at higher altitudes becomes less and less to limit your flight (same thing with jetpacks) - but then that's what the energy bar is for right?
I have to admit I'm a little hesitant to embrace something that takes every lerk closer to being a Phil.
As Max and Charlie mentioned in the latest blog entry, it shouldn't really be optional, how you control the Lerk. The feel and control should be done right, and then be the same for everyone.
Grabbing on to ceilings and walls would be really cool, and I think it might work, as the walk button is not really used for the Lerk.
As a supplement to this, I would like the Lerk to be able to grab on to objects, as NS2 is made on the HL2 engine with really nice physics. Think about a Lerk being able to grab a hold of weapons dropped by marines, that you don't want them to pick up again. You can then fly in, grab it, fly out and drop it somewhere safe.
If this is implemented, I would like some structure (Hive, chamber or a whole new structure) to be able to salvage items for resources. All kinds of items might do, like marine weapons as mentioned before, but also bodies of dead marines and even aliens. A Lerk could pick up a dead body (HL2 ragdolls should make it look really cool when you fly around with it) and take it back to the base or whereever, and drop it into the structure, giving resources to the team.
Of course, flying with objects should make the movement and the feel of the Lerk change, as it was carrying an object with a given weight.
It could also work a bit like the liftoff mod for NS1, making you able to fly around with your teamates (only skulks and gorges, Fades and Onoses aren't really made for lifting), getting them to the battlefield faster.
Just some thoughts I've been playing with <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
...could a lerk carry an armoured full-grown man in flight?
(but if you could pick up dead bodies, couldn't you also be annoying and quickly pick up a live marine and quickly drop him? sounds like fun to me. practically, you'd interrupt his firing/rhythm and such.)
anyway, for some reason i'm reminded of sonic and knuckles 2 (<3) tails and sonic.
Grabbing on to ceilings and walls would be really cool, and I think it might work, as the walk button is not really used for the Lerk.
As a supplement to this, I would like the Lerk to be able to grab on to objects, as NS2 is made on the HL2 engine with really nice physics. Think about a Lerk being able to grab a hold of weapons dropped by marines, that you don't want them to pick up again. You can then fly in, grab it, fly out and drop it somewhere safe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bingo, and
perhaps lerks can drop guns to a gorge who can heal/bile them, or onto a res tower which can desolve it (kind of like those meat eating plants with an open top)
edit
<img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/340835300_07fa49674f.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/340835300_07fa49674f.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...yum. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
i reckon -this- is the kind of thing that should inspire the look of alien structures
Lerk lift needs to have limits. I have played on a CO server where the lerks could lift an onos. Plain stupid and near impossible to kill. A gorge, skulk or egg should be the only things able to be lifted. With these the lerks speed should decrease to 2/3 or 3/4 depending on the payload.
A lerk or JP lift needs to be mutual, i.e. to prevent eggs being dropped down vents but team mates etc.
The lerk should not be able to perch from the ceilling while holding a payload coz their claws are busy.
Finnally at question: if the lerk lands on the wall will it have its view rotated like the proposed alteration to the skulk?
It would be more maneuverable, as you could do more advanced turns without any limits. But my guess is, that you would suffer too much from disorientation. When trying to dodge those marine bullets to get to safety, I usually suddenly move my mouse up fast, so im sure I fly straight up. If you could loop, you would have to practice A LOT, so you wont end up flying back towards the marines you were trying to escape.
Also, with the 'liftoff' discussed earlier, it would look really wierd (perhaps not even work) if the lerks feet was suddenly in the air. Not that it will be implemented, but it my point is that it complicates things.
Lerk lift needs to have limits. I have played on a CO server where the lerks could lift an onos. Plain stupid and near impossible to kill. A gorge, skulk or egg should be the only things able to be lifted. With these the lerks speed should decrease to 2/3 or 3/4 depending on the payload.
A lerk or JP lift needs to be mutual, i.e. to prevent eggs being dropped down vents but team mates etc.
The lerk should not be able to perch from the ceilling while holding a payload coz their claws are busy.
Finnally at question: if the lerk lands on the wall will it have its view rotated like the proposed alteration to the skulk?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if a certain ######-lerk takes an onos egg and puts it in a vent?
I say nay to egglift.
I say nay to egglift.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a big fan of lerklift in general but I agree that if it were implemented, higher lifeforms and eggs would have to be unliftable.
Fades is a different question. I think they should be liftable, but don't really gain anything from it, as you would be really slow. I don't believe in making lift impossible in some situations, just really impractical.
Fades is a different question. I think they should be liftable, but don't really gain anything from it, as you would be really slow. I don't believe in making lift impossible in some situations, just really impractical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I read you post, this idea popped into my head:
What if it wasn't that a lerk "lifts" anything, but life form combination dependent, but rather provides slow fall aka gliding, at different rates based on weight and size.
Honestly, the only thing I can picture a lerk lifting off with would be a skulk. And I don't think eggs should be liftable, they should be attached to the infestation that gives them the resources to change so drasticly.
Hmm, I also just realized that there was some talk of loops. What about barrel rolls? Those could come in handy if it related to the changing ones hit box orientation to dodge getting hit - plus, I think it would look cool. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
A lerk getting to hang from stuff to rest? Oh, please, please!!! I really hope that is a part of being a lerk. Could you imagine hiding behind something on the ceiling, your wings wrapped around you, and then suddenly swooping down on some unsupecting marines? Gone would be the days where the Marine would just assume the lerk is in the vent, now they would be looking everywhere above them with fear in their eyes! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
A lerk getting to hang from stuff to rest? Oh, please, please!!! I really hope that is a part of being a lerk. Could you imagine hiding behind something on the ceiling, your wings wrapped around you, and then suddenly swooping down on some unsupecting marines? Gone would be the days where the Marine would just assume the lerk is in the vent, now they would be looking everywhere above them with fear in their eyes! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I whole heartedly agree. Lerks should be able to drop skulks on marines (death from above). Anything larger than a lerk should not be able to be lifted and gestation should be part of the DI.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A lerk getting to hang from stuff to rest? Oh, please, please!!! I really hope that is a part of being a lerk. Could you imagine hiding behind something on the ceiling, your wings wrapped around you, and then suddenly swooping down on some unsupecting marines? Gone would be the days where the Marine would just assume the lerk is in the vent, now they would be looking everywhere above them with fear in their eyes!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this pretty much sold me.
when i need to press button X to activate it
is all fine
I love the idea to hang from the celling
it add admoshere and make the lerk better, then he need no more a vent vor cover
yeah, like what (i think) darktimes said, it's toggle-able, you'd press the USE key, or the Crouch key, when you're at the ceiling and you'd perch. if you don't wanna perch you can fly and knock your head against the ceiling as many times as you want. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Fades is a different question. I think they should be liftable, but don't really gain anything from it, as you would be really slow. I don't believe in making lift impossible in some situations, just really impractical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think if a lerk tried to lift an onos by itself, it shouldn't be able to lift it obviously. But, if you were to have multiple lerks (I'm thinking 2-3) try and lift it, they would be able to fly around with it.
Would be a good use of teamwork <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />