Lerk without limits

Buzzou

<!--quoteo(post=1666356:date=Jan 5 2008, 05:10 AM:name=Newerest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Newerest @ Jan 5 2008, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think if a lerk tried to lift an onos by itself, it shouldn't be able to lift it obviously. But, if you were to have multiple lerks (I'm thinking 2-3) try and lift it, they would be able to fly around with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that sounds ms-paint worthy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1666356:date=Jan 5 2008, 12:10 AM:name=Newerest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Newerest @ Jan 5 2008, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666356"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think if a lerk tried to lift an onos by itself, it shouldn't be able to lift it obviously. But, if you were to have multiple lerks (I'm thinking 2-3) try and lift it, they would be able to fly around with it.

Would be a good use of teamwork <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are those African or European lerks?

Buzzou

<!--quoteo(post=1666369:date=Jan 5 2008, 11:53 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 5 2008, 11:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666369"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are those African or European lerks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because we all know that african lerks are non-migratory.....

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Domining

Downie. African lerks = all lerks except for Steve.

Buzzou

<!--quoteo(post=1666474:date=Jan 6 2008, 03:56 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Jan 6 2008, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666474"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Downie. African lerks = all lerks except for Steve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol you didnt get the joke, so clearly you're the one with down syndrome.

go watch some monty python, or get your "special needs carer" to watch it for you.

Domining

I got the joke and responded with.. wait, why am I talking to you?

God hates Helen Kellers such as Buzzou.

Misere

Lerk lift helps skulks the least out of all the other life forms. It can help gorges and eggs the most, however the problems mentioned above are right on the money (good calls) but they can be fixed via:

1) The lerk must hit "use" and the liftee must hold "use" to be picked up. When the liftee wants to be dropped it lets go of "use". The lerk can't terminate it.
2) Lerks can not enter small vents etc coz they would not be able to fit through while carrying an egg or gorge.
3) If the lerk does manage to enter into a vent and the evolving alien will be something like an Ono's which gets stuck, the onos can re-egg for free (if done within 10secs) to automaticly redempts to the hive as an onos.

So now you can't screw the egging player over unless you pick them up and kill yourself buy flying down a pit or into MS. And to do that you have to get the liftee's consent! Plus if you don't like lerk lift you don't have to use it.

Harimau

hmm, nice.

measles

For doing loops, I feel that the strafe modifier option would be best for its implementation. A certain skill level would be necessary to accomplish tactical loop maneuvers. As for lerk holds and things, I think if such an ability was to be given to the lerk, it should be on anything, yet weight would be the main factor. Eg; A lerk could perch on Onos and get free rides, and maybe even drag/sway fades. Grappling ceilings is an awesome idea, also.

Newerest

It would be hilarious if a lerk was lifting an onos egg and right when it's about to finish gestation, he drops him at the target (marine base), not that I can really imagine that amount of coordination, but it would be incredibly gg if 6 lerks with 6 onos eggs did it... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />

darktimes

that was hilaruis

i think that the lerk-lift need to implemented

(but plz whit a carry animation. i know youre not ubisoft but it was hilarius)

Harimau

eh.. ok. enough about lerk-lift for now then..

'perching' on the ceiling, i think, a lot of people agree on.

what about more advanced aerial maneuvers for lerks? we've talked about loops..

(on the assumption that view rotation is implemented: )

you could have a lerk gain speed and do half a loop as it glides (mouse up up), and fly back the way it came (but upside down), and then 'twist' around the "Z-axis" to automatically right itself (this would be auto after flying a stretch upside-down, overridden by holding the crouch key perhaps; or, performed with the crouch key)
or, going on from the former idea, the crouch key would 'unlock' the mouse view (whatever it's called), so that lerks could do aerial loops around the "X-axis", while if you didn't hold the crouch key, the "highest" angle you'd be able to look is 90 degrees

well, it's an idea..

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1666881:date=Jan 9 2008, 09:34 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 9 2008, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about more advanced aerial maneuvers for lerks? We've talked about loops...

Based on the assumption that view rotation is implemented:

You could have a lerk gain speed and do half a loop as it glides (mouse up up). It would fly back the way it came (but upside down), and then 'twist' around the "Z-axis" to automatically right itself. This could be auto after flying a stretch upside-down, and overridden by holding the crouch key perhaps, or performed with the crouch key.
Maybe, going on from the former idea, the crouch key would 'unlock' the mouse view (whatever it's called), so that lerks could do aerial loops around the "X-axis", while if you didn't hold the crouch key, the "highest" angle you'd be able to look is 90 degrees.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a pretty good idea. That way you wouldn't get all mixed up while flying normally, but if you wanted to loop you could.

Edit: You'd probably want a way to flip or barrel roll the lerk back right side up. Maybe a wing flap(jump) could orient you right side up so that loops could only be done gliding.

Harimau

<!--quoteo(post=1666885:date=Jan 9 2008, 11:51 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 9 2008, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666885"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i>That's a pretty good idea. That way you wouldn't get all mixed up while flying normally, but if you wanted to loop you could.</i>

<b>Edit: You'd probably want a way to flip or barrel roll the lerk back right side up. Maybe a wing flap(jump) could orient you right side up so that loops could only be done gliding.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yeah, sorry, it was <b>this</b> part:
<!--quoteo(post=1666881:date=Jan 9 2008, 11:34 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 9 2008, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what about more advanced aerial maneuvers for lerks? we've talked about loops..

Based on the assumption that view rotation is implemented:

you could have a lerk gain speed and do half a loop as it glides (mouse up up), and fly back the way it came (but upside down), <b>and then 'twist' around the "Z-axis" to automatically right itself </b>(this would be auto after flying a stretch upside-down, overridden by holding the crouch key perhaps; or, performed with the crouch key)
or, going on from the former idea, the crouch key would 'unlock' the mouse view (whatever it's called), so that lerks could do aerial loops around the "X-axis", while if you didn't hold the crouch key, the "highest" angle you'd be able to look is 90 degrees<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i just didn't express myself well. <b>that</b> was actually my main point for the post. "and then 'twist' around the "Z-axis" to automatically right itself" = "You'd probably want a way to flip or barrel roll the lerk back right side up."
actually, the <i>'unlocking'</i> thing only occurred to me as i was typing. (for that reason: <i>you wouldn't get all mixed up while flying normally</i>)
so i think there are two ways you could do that.
keep the 'unlock' and 'right side up' separate (your suggestion, i think) - hold crouch to unlock view (restricted to gliding?), press jump to barrel roll yourself the right way up.
or combine them (my original suggestion) - hold crouch to unlock view (restricted to gliding?), when you let go of crouch you automatically barrel roll yourself the right way up.

locallyunscene

I see, Harimau, the only thing I'm bringing to the table then is restricting loops to gliding. It seems to me that if a player starts flapping in a it's because he wants to escape or attack and that is best done right side up.

darktimes

hmm..

i think that loops would be cool
but i dont need it
what i will is that i can strafe-fly

you cant glide in strafe-fly (that would look very strange)
i mean that you, when you press jump

only go higher and dont start flying away
then you can use wasd to move around

now you jump and you fly right in the marine who you try to escape
glide can you only when you fly forward
and you fly a little bid slower whit strafe

that make the lerk more intuitiv

Harimau

I don't understand. What's strafe-fly? I guess I'm slower than usual, but could someone else explain what that is?

darktimes

oK

you press jump
you go higher, not forward like in ns1

you stand in the air (when you tab jump repeatly)
now you can use A, D, S, to move in fly left, right and back

its now only a idea to make the lerk more intuitiv and easy´er to lern for new-comers

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1667070:date=Jan 11 2008, 06:31 AM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 11 2008, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667070"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you press jump
you go higher, not forward like in ns1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what the flight system used to be. IMO, and most others, the current glide system is more intuitive. Of course what is intuitive is personal preference.

darktimes

have i say that glide is out?
no, but you can only use it while move forward

strafing as slower

and i dont think thats realism that you as lerk ,when you try to escape fly <i>forward</i>
i can imigenare that a lerk in RL can do this and use that

(in reallife a lerk can move his head while he fly forward to look in a other direction)

that would be make the lerk better

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1667106:date=Jan 11 2008, 11:47 AM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 11 2008, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->have i say that glide is out?
no, but you can only use it while move forward

strafing as slower

and i dont think thats realism that you as lerk ,when you try to escape fly <i>forward</i>
i can imigenare that a lerk in RL can do this and use that

(in reallife a lerk can move his head while he fly forward to look in a other direction)

that would be make the lerk better<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Glide is not "out" in your system but the only way to attack with "jump being up" is to glide/fall into them; you can't accelerate while diving towards marines. If you replaced bite with spikes again then the point is moot, but all you've done is put the 1.04 in NS2. Most people prefer the 2.0+ lerk even if spikes is missed as a player weapon(it lives on in OC's).

spawnof2000

another feature i think should be added is the ability to stop moving forwards in midair because at the moment you just press space repeatedly to fly then press forwards to start flying forwards but you cannot stop flying forwards unless you land again i think this to be quite annoying at times make it so that if your flying and then you hold s you start slowing down and eventually stop going forwards and maybe even start going backwards

darktimes

i mean that you, when you press w its eccactly the same like now

i mean you hold W and you make a flapp forward
whit A,D and S its the same but in theyre directions
when you hold nothing and only press jump its only go higher

(also a lerk isnt a attacker, they need to stay and gas the marines
not go near and bite them to dead)

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1667113:date=Jan 11 2008, 02:04 PM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 11 2008, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i mean that you, when you press w its eccactly the same like now

i mean you hold W and you make a flapp forward
whit A,D and S its the same but in theyre directions
when you hold nothing and only press jump its only go higher

(also a lerk isnt a attacker, they need to stay and gas the marines
not go near and bite them to dead)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It didn't work as well in the game as it does in your head.

Fluid Core

I would like the the lerk flight changed slightly, so that instead of just turning sideways (wich you would if you walked), While glide-flapping, when you move your mouse sideways, your view would "roll". This would mkae it similar to manovering airplanes with the mouse, so that to turn, toy roll a bit and drag the mouse up/down to turn. This would make you able to spin sideways while flying, much as you can do while moving down/upwards now, but while moving forward.

I think this would make the lerk easier to fly fast in small spaces, and it would be totally optional to look upside down, as you wouldn't have to turn upside down if you don't wich to. I would compare this to flying an airplane, were you don't get disorientated with the view rolling, and flying upside down mostly have little to no effect on your sucess in the gameplay.

It would also work to semi implement this for skulks, so that then turning on the ground then running, the view would roll, from 0-45 degree depending on the speed with wich you are turning (no, you wouldn't be able to roll with the skulk).

It would also be awsome if they implemented a collision system with this, wich I think they will do anyway, so that you could for example fly into an marine, dealing some damage to them, or speeding to quick into a wall would damage/kill you. This could even do with no/high limitations on the lerks movement speed, meaning you could go really fast till your energy runs out, if you can avoid crashing into stuff. If you would turn sharp at a to high speed, your energy would also drain, even then just gliding, cause you should have to hold back the preassure of turning.

I might add something about this in the skulk thread later, we'll seee if I'll feel up to it.


Regards

Fluid Core

darktimes

<!--quoteo(post=1667114:date=Jan 11 2008, 08:11 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 11 2008, 08:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It didn't work as well in the game as it does in your head.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


why not?

other mods and games have done it
why not ns2?

you have no reason why its not work well

Harimau

<!--quoteo(post=1667175:date=Jan 12 2008, 08:04 PM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fluid Core @ Jan 12 2008, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so that you could for example fly into an marine, dealing some damage to them, or speeding to quick into a wall would damage/kill you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ehh.. i dunno....... if you could take a few bullets in the face, i don't think you'd die when you flew into a wall *shrug*

but the rest of your post has some interesting ideas. i don't quite get the view-roll thing though? since you said you don't have to go upside down, and yet you're saying the view rolls?
or do you mean, the view tilts, like... 45 degrees right, when you're veering right? (ie. pressing the a or d keys) [btw, is this what darktimes meant when he said strafe-fly?]

I think you should <b>flap</b> in the direction of the key you're pressing. Holding W while flapping will make you move forward faster, holding S while flapping will slow you down/stop you (if you were moving forward) or even allow you to fly backwards at some speed. Holding A or D will make you 'strafe' or veer that way (likely your view would tilt). You'd be able to hold W/S and A/D together (eg. WA) and press space to flap, and you'd move in that direction, or create a force in that direction (eg. from rest, flapping and moving forward and to the left). If you didn't hold any of the directional keys, you'd fly straight up, relative to your view.
For "circular" turns/diving/rising you'd use the mouse obviously.
W: player model faces forward, 'horizontal', body streamlined (default?)
S: player model is 'vertical', creating resistance
A/D: player model tilts left/right, kinda like a fighter jet.
I can't explain it well, just think of how a bird flies, one of the smaller ones with more mobility.

Or is something like this this already implemented? It's been a while. I don't recall. And how was gliding implemented again?

Fluid Core

<!--quoteo(post=1667205:date=Jan 12 2008, 04:58 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 12 2008, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667205"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ehh.. i dunno....... if you could take a few bullets in the face, i don't think you'd die when you flew into a wall *shrug*

but the rest of your post has some interesting ideas. i don't quite get the view-roll thing though? since you said you don't have to go upside down, and yet you're saying the view rolls?
or do you mean, the view tilts, like... 45 degrees right, when you're veering right? (ie. pressing the a or d keys) [btw, is this what darktimes meant when he said strafe-fly?]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I mean that the view tilts (thanks for the word, forgot it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />), and if you want to do a really sharp turn, you tilt 90 degree and drag mouse up/down to actually make your model turn frim the direction it was traveling. There is really no need to tilt the camera more than 90 degree, so the only reason to fly upside down is if you want to do a half loop to change direction instead. I don't know what he mean by strafe-fly... I would also like to be able to slow down, flapping using backward movement (can you do that now?).

About crashing into walls/marines and taking damage/dieing... It would depend on the speed you travel. Imagine a huge room, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" /> soaring the sky, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> walks unsuspecting above. You start the dive, wrapping the wings close to your body as you gain speed glideing towards the marine. BAM, straight into hes head, KO. Ok, you probably would have to fly really fast to kill yourself, but wouldn't it be a worth sacrefise to take out that HA with a single suicide mission?

Fluid Core

<!--quoteo(post=1667210:date=Jan 12 2008, 05:26 PM:name=Fluid Core)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fluid Core @ Jan 12 2008, 05:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean that the view tilts (thanks for the word, forgot it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />), and if you want to do a really sharp turn, you tilt 90 degree and drag mouse up/down to actually make your model turn frim the direction it was traveling. There is really no need to tilt the camera more than 90 degree, so the only reason to fly upside down is if you want to do a half loop to change direction instead. I don't know what he mean by strafe-fly... I would also like to be able to slow down, flapping using backward movement (can you do that now?).

About crashing into walls/marines and taking damage/dieing... It would depend on the speed you travel. Imagine a huge room, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" /> soaring the sky, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /> walks unsuspecting above. You start the dive, wrapping the wings close to your body as you gain speed glideing towards the marine. BAM, straight into hes head, KO. Ok, you probably would have to fly really fast to kill yourself, but wouldn't it be a worth sacrefise to take out that HA with a single suicide mission?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Fluid Core

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