Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Podcast #24 - NS2 First Prototypes

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  • ns_insiderns_insider Join Date: 2007-09-30 Member: 62484Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2008
    <!--quoteo(post=1678727:date=May 16 2008, 03:24 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Price @ May 16 2008, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I Love it!
    But the buy Menu for marines, is scary.
    I hope the commander can give the players money and take it from the players(with a limit to buy a sg or something).
    I miss playing NS so much, but there at the moment not many good server.
    I am very sure, NS2 will be a bestseller, if the fans hear about it.
    Many people stop playing that game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hmm, the thing with the money is good, but if they can buy weapons and so on without the commanders help, they´ve got a advantage observe the aliens. If this system, with buying weapons without the commander, it sould be like; they only can buy weapons in near of a armory. (mybe a tall radius, and if u are out of the radius. now, its not different, the commander can drop things in the area around the armory, but if the player can buy things self, the commander can spend his time to drop buildings or other things.)

    U miss playing NS, why? .. i dont play online, because i live in germany and the most of the servers are in the USA .. and the connection is terrible. So i play it every weekend with my friends on lan, and this for more than 4 years!

    NS2 will be a bestseller, because you can play it only with steam, and the steamcommunity is very big, so the promotion is big <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> .. there will be more NS2 player than NS player now.

    The most of the players stopped playing NS cause of the graphic, i think.. the most of the inactive NS players will be return when NS2 is ready to play <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    hope so .. no, i know it!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    edited May 2008
    im from germany to, its hard for me to write in english what i exactly mean.
    but yes i am very sure its about the graphic (and the combat mode).
    i hope ns2 will have more research options to made the gameplay a little bit diffrent and longer. (the commander can only choose one three like jetpack or heavy armor <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
  • slayer.faithslayer.faith Join Date: 2007-12-10 Member: 63127Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I love the asymetric nature of NS (aliens = individuals with no central boss, marines = hive mind with comm) (thats weird if you think about it).

    Anyway, one nice thing about the old Grenade Launcher was that you _were_ unable to get into close combat. That ment you needed buddies to keep you safe. Which reenforced the need for more team play

    I think thats the problem some people are having with people getting to purchase weapons. Previously the comm would control that... if you farm that out to players then the comm cant control the flow of stuff as much. (Ie, the comm cant 'save' weapons spending to do it all in one big rush).

    Also, remember counter strike and the positive feedback badness (once your team starts to win, you get more money and then win more and get more cash and win even more and so on). I think you want to avoid rewarding 'leet' players if that starves people who cant shoot well. (That always frustrates me when I play aliens (badly) is that a subset of players go on killing sprees and get res, but hardly ever seem to spend it on building/hives/res towers but rather jump right to fade etc). It would be horrid if that started happening on the marine side too (IMHO).

    I guess it depends where the 'cash' comes from. I think 'kill' points should go to the whole team (rather than the individal), but maybe rewards for 'team' behaviour like going to way points, welding, hive spotting, obeying the comm should be given to the player. (Again, opposite of what you would expect I guess).

    Also, maybe customisation should take time, so rather than players humping for ammo, they pick up the fully loaded weapon, but if they want to customise then they have to spend the time there (some mini-game or click fest?). In that way, a desperate drop of hmg's to save spawn would only be 'base level' hmgs, but if you can spent the 10 seconds to slot up your 'extra burst' and 'explosive rounds' customisation then it gets better.

    Play to your differences! The differences are what makes NS so great!
  • aznpride3214aznpride3214 Join Date: 2008-04-26 Member: 64162Members
    Umm will we have to buy natural selection 2?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> or are you guys keepin it a free mod?
  • PogoPPogoP Environment Artist Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25827Members, NS2 Developer, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1678887:date=May 19 2008, 08:56 AM:name=aznpride3214)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aznpride3214 @ May 19 2008, 08:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umm will we have to buy natural selection 2?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> or are you guys keepin it a free mod?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You'll have to buy it. It is now a commercial product.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1678887:date=May 19 2008, 02:56 AM:name=aznpride3214)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aznpride3214 @ May 19 2008, 02:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678887"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Umm will we have to buy natural selection 2?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> or are you guys keepin it a free mod?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thats the plan of NS1!
    A mod is a lot of hard work and i will pay for NS2 if its good like ns1.
    Best examples:
    CS source = pay for it
    TF 2 = pay for it
    so you see...ill pay for good games <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1678897:date=May 19 2008, 07:54 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Price @ May 19 2008, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thats the plan of NS1!
    A mod is a lot of hard work and i will pay for NS2 if its good like ns1.
    Best examples:
    CS source = pay for it
    TF 2 = pay for it
    so you see...ill pay for good games <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed, and I think I remember the Devs saying they would try to do it for around the $20 mark. At that price range, that's money well spent. When games get $20 or less, even if they are highly ranked games, I find it very hard to resist as a purchase - if its great gameplay to boot, I make it a point to purchase it. Add to that the hours, and hours of fun I had thanks to NS1 for free, I would gladly repay that kindness with a purchase.

    Now, not everyone is as generous as I with their expendable income for entertainment, so now I just hope excellent points like this get some attention of the Devs so that it finds acceptance with a wider audience than myself, so that maybe we see a NS3:

    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=slayer.faith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(slayer.faith)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess it depends where the 'cash' comes from. <b>I think 'kill' points should go to the whole team (rather than the individal), but maybe rewards for 'team' behaviour like going to way points, welding, hive spotting, obeying the comm should be given to the player. (<u>Again, opposite of what you would expect I guess</u>).</b>

    Also, maybe customisation should take time, so rather than players humping for ammo, they pick up the fully loaded weapon, but if they want to customise then they have to spend the time there (some mini-game or click fest?). In that way, a desperate drop of hmg's to save spawn would only be 'base level' hmgs, but if you can spent the 10 seconds to slot up your 'extra burst' and 'explosive rounds' customisation then it gets better.

    Play to your differences! The differences are what makes NS so great!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nice post, glad to see some get the new developments in NS2 ideas can make for improvements over what we knew in NS1, as good as that experience was.
  • MilodronMilodron Join Date: 2008-05-19 Member: 64287Members
    [Serious thought about making GL combat effective]
    I noticed that the GL special wasnt really getting any decent ideas to make it into a combat weapon .... well take a page from system shock 2.
    Their GL had different modes (ammo) for the weapon. And since your dealing with nano ammo it wouldnt take much to load up on a variety of grenades.

    Standard (NS1 stuff) special on weapon make em into plasma or flechette grenades(like a claymore style explosion but 360)
    Proximity(sticky grenades that work like mines but blow up if anything comes near ... may require research ... ie weapons 2 opens it)(limit 6 - 7th prox nade disables the first one)(nearby explosions detonate-- which can make the GL an ambush/rush suppression weapon)
    Bio-tox Grenades (does DoT and slows aliens and/or drains ability energy (weapons 3?))

    just have a key to change ammo mods ... and make it the old clip style GL( grey clip, white bar clip(prox), green striped clip(bio) or u can use a small light sys on where the ammo display is to represent type ( red white and green lights)

    ___________________
    [just some ramblings on ES -- more of a brainstorm starter]

    Exoskel stuff .... hmmm how about making premade building modules as a temp addon for the ES. ie they can carry a pg or portable armory(only ammo/hp) or self contained turrets with batteies(has 3 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/turret.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::sentry::" border="0" alt="turret.gif" /> )(only 5-10 min life on them before shutdown(temp resupply on battery with welder usage(1/2 min)))

    that way an ES who has a lot of personal res can go ninja a pg somewhere while the comm and the other teammates are busy somewhere else.

    (limit one building per ES -- side effect : reduces speed by 10% (cuz its HEAVY))
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation
    Pff. I'd pay for it around the $50-60 mark. Hell, I donated $20 when joining constellation... *idea*
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    i hope (thanks to lua) there will be made an classic mod, like NS1 :-)
    Just for sure, if the maingame will like cs...
  • ns_insiderns_insider Join Date: 2007-09-30 Member: 62484Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    tzz, i mean.. hell yeah, i <33 NS !!

    and i would pay around 50€ for NS 2 .. when i look into the topics, the ideas the pictures and the mockups.. GREAT. and i think, if it would be for free.. there wouldn´t be so much players, if you can get it for free in the internet!

    cause, if u must buy it.. there will be a lot of promotion .. and more promotion = more players.. and thats what i want to have.. more players!

    and more online server. its hard to find a german server .. so i have to play it only on LAN <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> .. cause.. the ping is to high

    :]
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    I see it now, the 3rd ability on the 2nd row of the 1st picture - that is the tree of generosity.

    +5 to green energy
    -10 to carbon footprint
  • obsidobsid Join Date: 2003-09-16 Member: 20909Members
    edited May 2008
    <!--quoteo(post=1679060:date=May 20 2008, 06:08 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ May 20 2008, 06:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see it now, the 3rd ability on the 2nd row of the 1st picture - that is the tree of generosity.

    +5 to green energy
    -10 to carbon footprint<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I see it now, the 3rd ability on the 2nd row of the 1st picture - that is the shrine of enviromentalism.

    +5 to feeling good for doing nothing
    -10 to destroying the economy

    Take your personal opinions elsewhere or expect to be disagreed with.
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    In case you didn't get the joke, the devs stated that they are not going to add any offensive commander spells. So what is the nuclear sprite going to stand for? The tree of life which summons Simba, of course.

    P.S. I fale to see a personal opinion in my post. (well since you asked, its actually: 1. Find alternate energy source [helium 3] and exploit it, but not because of global warming or Al Gore, but because of the security and availability of oil. 2. Avoid any limitations on energy for as long as possible.)
  • obsidobsid Join Date: 2003-09-16 Member: 20909Members
    Fine by me, just had too many people go on and on about "we got to save the planet!!" without knowing any of the facts. I saw you talk about "carbon footprint" sorry if I jumped to the wrong conclusion.
  • Termy58Termy58 Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58102Members
    I'm actually really interested in the Lua development aspect of the game but I haven't seen much about it since a bit after Decoda was released.

    I would really like to see just how far you can change the game with it, like changing alien attacks, seeing if you can change effects in the game, adding a custom laser out of the gun, a little menu, and so on.

    I just can't wait to get my hands on a release or beta.
  • thecowsaysmoothecowsaysmoo Join Date: 2008-02-02 Member: 63557Members
    edited May 2008
    marines are buying their own weapons now? so now absolutley no one will want to be commander, or as the new name should be medpack dropper extroadinare. I think the commander is the most important role in the game, and it is the part that makes the game unique from other first person shooters, why dont u just call the game alien vrs predator elite #3 if your gonna jsut have a bunch of people running around willy nilly with no reason to listen to the commander, let me reiterate that , no one will listen to the commander if he does not control thr weapon supply, If i can just buy my own gun i'm gonna go off on my own and not listen to the commander, cause why the hell would I? All I can say guys is good luck, I love this game and it's premise but if it doesnt come out before starcraft 2 I probably wont be playing it .
  • maxwellcofemaxwellcofe Join Date: 2006-12-02 Member: 58848Members
    please make a tutorial, like the HL1 hazard course
  • BigTextBigText Join Date: 2007-12-21 Member: 63231Members
    I have a concern to voice. It might have been voiced before, but as far as I know, it hasn't.

    Marines buy weapons with their own money. Do they get this money on their own through killing, or does it come naturally, like resource ticks from resource towers?

    I ask because I completely suck at the game. I'm so-so at other FPS's, but I can't take NS. Skulks, Fades, and Lurks all move far too fast for me to shoot, and I always end up getting raped. If I end up getting raped, I can't kill anyone, and if I can't kill anyone, I don't get money, and if I don't get money, I can't get better weapons, and if I can't get better weapons, I'll likely end up getting raped more so than anyone else, starting a very steep downward spiral. In Combat, I usually level up by being bumped up automatically by everyone else being a much higher level than I am.

    Basically, the way this all ties in is that, correct me if I'm wrong, you want to bring in a lot more players. If getting money is entirely based around kills made, then the new players will be stuck with no weapons while everyone else levels up, which doesn't make the game very enjoyable, making them not want to keep playing. However, if it's entirely automatic, irrespective of how many kills you make, I feel that experienced players may not feel like they're getting appropriate rewards for the work they're putting in. Even if you mix it so it's both automatic to an extent, while still rewarding kills, new players will still watch skilled players mess with better weapons and feel useless. Some players might start just loitering in base, waiting for more money to come in, to buy better weapons, angering better players, as if the newer players DO do that, then they actually ARE being quite useless.

    What do you plan to do?
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    Hmm, apart from earning credits from kills and automatic resource-ticks; there's also been the suggestion that players earn credits from structure-kills, and support roles (eg. building, welding, kill-assists). Might any of these solve the issue for you, or does it still fall short?
  • BigTextBigText Join Date: 2007-12-21 Member: 63231Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1679275:date=May 23 2008, 05:53 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ May 23 2008, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, apart from earning credits from kills and automatic resource-ticks; there's also been the suggestion that players earn credits from structure-kills, and support roles (eg. building, welding, kill-assists). Might any of these solve the issue for you, or does it still fall short?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That'd actually be quite dandy. Because of how useless in combat I am, I usually end up taking support roles anyway. And if people got money from even kill-assists, I'd be happy with that too. In Combat, if you don't get the kill, you don't get the experience. You get a little experience if you're standing near the person who killed the alien or something, but the fact of the matter was that I was hardly getting any experience at all, thus waiting to auto-level most of the time.

    If you're able to get stuff by helping with set-up and supporting, then you'll have SOMETHING to go to combat with and start getting practice.

    I think that solves my problem, yeah. Thanks!
  • aNytiMeaNytiMe Join Date: 2008-03-31 Member: 64007Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1679192:date=May 22 2008, 05:06 PM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(thecowsaysmoo @ May 22 2008, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->marines are buying their own weapons now? so now absolutley no one will want to be commander, or as the new name should be medpack dropper extroadinare. I think the commander is the most important role in the game, and it is the part that makes the game unique from other first person shooters, why dont u just call the game alien vrs predator elite #3 if your gonna jsut have a bunch of people running around willy nilly with no reason to listen to the commander, let me reiterate that , no one will listen to the commander if he does not control thr weapon supply, If i can just buy my own gun i'm gonna go off on my own and not listen to the commander, cause why the hell would I?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're going to listen to the commander because:
    A) I won't give you all of those commander spells I have and instead give them to a player who is where he should be.
    B) You will lose the game.
    C) Yo..y..y..y...y.y....y..y..y.y..y..YOU'RE SQUAD 5. PROCEED TO THE WAYPOINT SOLDIER. PROCEED WAYPOINT. PROCEED TO THE WAYPOINT SOLDIER. PROCEED WAYPOINT. PROCEED TO THE WAYPOINT SOLDIER.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All I can say guys is good luck, I love this game and it's premise but if it doesnt come out before starcraft 2 I probably wont be playing it .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Here is a solution <b>I'm</b> willing to live with: play both games. (if you're Korean, you can play them at the same time)

    <!--quoteo(post=1679273:date=May 23 2008, 06:59 AM:name=BigText)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigText @ May 23 2008, 06:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I ask because I completely suck at the game. I'm so-so at other FPS's, but I can't take NS. Skulks, Fades, and Lurks all move far too fast for me to shoot, and I always end up getting raped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How to get better:

    Download bots and play on co_faceoff. Use a w0 lmg and get resupply. Spawncamp bots with the lmg and get your aim +++. Do this 2hours a day/3 days a week for a month. You will be far above average, I guarantee results.
  • JalooNJalooN Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12085Members
    What about random drops from kills or or objectives? Some MMO elements like rare drops or customised weapons will make things more interesting.
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    <b>New feature??
    i like the fog, maybe you made like the motion tracker only works on the fog free zones?</b>
  • BigTextBigText Join Date: 2007-12-21 Member: 63231Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1679351:date=May 24 2008, 11:03 AM:name=JalooN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JalooN @ May 24 2008, 11:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about random drops from kills or or objectives? Some MMO elements like rare drops or customised weapons will make things more interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't think that'll work too well. If you mean objectives like taking down a hive, well, then you've taken down a hive. That's a huge blow to the aliens in and of itself, and if you get boosts from destroying a hive, that'll just make it unfair to the aliens.

    And rare drops from kills? NS2 is supposed to be at least <i>vaguely</i> realistic. The marines use technology, and the aliens use biology. Neither side would be holding something in combat that the other time could use, so random drops wouldn't work too well, I'd think.
  • RadixRadix Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1679351:date=May 23 2008, 10:03 PM:name=JalooN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JalooN @ May 23 2008, 10:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679351"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about random drops from kills or or objectives? Some MMO elements like rare drops or customised weapons will make things more interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The only way this would work is if there were weapon stashes in crates, and it would still be tremendously gamebreaking unless the contents were numerically balanced based on a power chart.

    The idea is extremely shaky even in that form.
  • mattoXmattoX Join Date: 2007-08-01 Member: 61739Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1678964:date=May 19 2008, 11:59 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ May 19 2008, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pff. I'd pay for it around the $50-60 mark. Hell, I donated $20 when joining constellation... *idea*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Personally i would pay that amount aswell knowing the quality of the game would be outstanding. But i know this because i read about the updates and so forth all the time. What about the outside community? They don't, so if they were to pay that amount there would have to be lots of advertisment on how great the game will be. Im sure steam will help out with this. But id suggest previous advertisment before the game is released so the outside community gamers know about this quality and are willing to look foward to its release. Its working for us, why not them? =P

    Matt. *giggles*
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Members
    omg $ 50-60 are way to much!
    There many fans of NS1 but it was for free, so ns2 will commercial, but its only a mp game, so i only pay $ 20.
    If i tell some friends something about NS2, they always say "yes $ 20 are good, but as a fullprice game is a way to much"
    and some tell me, ns2 will never come 2008...
    I like NS1 very much, but more then 20 dollars for an mpgame only is to much and a rip-off.
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    I don't understand your problem, Battlefield etc. are multiplayer-only games too and loads of people buy them for $50.
    Depends on the quality of NS2, and how they distribute it, but $50 is not an astronomic price.
    Also, I'm pretty sure NS2 won't be released in 2008.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1678964:date=May 19 2008, 07:59 PM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ May 19 2008, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pff. I'd pay for it around the $50-60 mark. Hell, I donated $20 when joining constellation... *idea*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Seconded.
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