Ns_jungle

Moleculor

Hehehe... Flayra doesn't have his DivX up to date.. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> 5.0 man! Came out weeks ago! <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo--> *cackles and runs away dodging bricks*

Anywho, as MonsE said, that ain't outdoors. It's a greenhouse. An arboretum. Something that makes -perfect- sense in a space place. Humans need places like this to help destress and such. Plus it provides a bit 'o oxygen.

I was planning on having something similar in the map I was going to make. Not going to make it till NS comes out though.

[edit]Just read your reply. What?! I'm simply not getting you Flayra. What's wrong about an enclosed arboretum?[/edit]



<!--EDIT|Moleculor|Mar. 27 2002,18:12-->

realityisdead

I could be totally wrong, but it seems to me that the reason Flayra doesn't want outdoors stuff whether it's technically "indoors" or not, is because he doesn't want <b>that</b> kind of <i>atmosphere</i> in the maps. It doesn't make a difference whether it's enclosed in glass, it's still a bright and sunny happy and colorful scene... totally opposite of what they want with this thing.

I think the reason Hera's outdoors bit is staying in the official release is... well... look at it. It's <i>freakish.</i> It doesn't have that sunshiny happy feeling to it.

Enclosing your outdoors stuff with glass isn't going to make it fit in with NS any better... I'm suprised to see how unclear of a picture some of you have of what this thing is supposed to feel like. Especially the ones that have been here from the start, as far as I can tell.

I've only been here a couple months, and I don't think I have a totally complete and accurate vision of what Charlie wants with this thing, but I mean all you have to do is read the mapping guidelines to understand that it isn't the technical concept of being outside that they want to stay away from... it's the entire atmosphere and look of being outside they want to keep away from. It doesn't make any difference whether it's enclosed in glass or not.

Or am I wrong? If I am, Charlie, please say so. I've been trying to stress this point steady, and I wouldn't exactly like it if I have been conveying a flawed position.



<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Mar. 27 2002,22:40-->

Flayra

Someone, buy that man a soda/coffee/beer!

We have tons of work to get NS released.  TONS.  NS isn't about outdoor environments or atmosphere.  The last thing I want to do is spend time (like I'm doing right now) trying to make outdoor areas "work" (atmospherically, technically, and game-design wise).  It's just not what NS is about.  At least, not yet.

In the About NS section of this website, there's a bullet point that says:

<i>Atmospheric <b>indoor</b> sci-fi environments full of steam, smoke and ambient soundscapes</i>

We are trying not to stray from these guidelines in any way.  If you really want to do an outdoor level, or a level with outdoor areas, I would recommend that you map for the excellent-looking <a href="http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/" target="_blank">Uncrossable Parallel</a> mod.  Now, can we pleeease, drop this now?



<!--EDIT|Flayra|Mar. 28 2002,00:07-->

Moleculor

I'm thinking you should say it like this:

<i>Atmospheric indoor sci-fi environments full of <b>steam, smoke and ambient soundscapes.</b></i>

After all, the place is technically indoor.

So yeah, it's entirely too cheerful. But I've got a suggestion for ya Simsalabim: Change day to night. The starry sky, or perhaps even a storm might make the place work.

mr_Nebel

Excellent idea moleculor, I have one(1) outdoor area which is the landing zone and since the level is engulfed in a huge storm its very dark and the random lightning flashes make it quite atmospheric. IMO anyway

Shuvit_Viper

but that is what i like about NS. There can be a lot of tension in a map, even if it is as joyfull as this. NS is not a standard scifi game, it hase more. I would like to see this in a map, especially if this is around the marine spawn area, and the closer you come to the hive, the darker it gets...

Moleculor

Oo. 'Nother idea. They just pour fourth like water from a divinely created spring.

Creepy crickets. Like.. crickets on acid, or alienified crickets.

<!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->

realityisdead

So what Flayra and I said didn't change anyone's opinions?
Sure doesn't sound like it... Everyone is still trying to justify fitting their outdoors stuff into NS.

Whatever.

While I'm sure there will be official maps with outdoors areas (obviously.. hera), and keeping a nice dark and moody atmosphere to those outdoors areas is definately better then if you didn't... hey... I'm wasting my time here. <i>I give up.</i>

-Edit- Though I must say, Molec, your idea about the crickets r0x0rs. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->



<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Mar. 28 2002,02:10-->

Silver_Fox

well, you know what Flayra, you've said your peice.  Come time to evaluate the map for official use or not and doesn't get accepted, he wont have any room to complain.  I say, let him try it, if it doesn't work out, oh well.  Not saying the map isnt nice.  Hell, I would really like to see it in NS, but the fact is, if it doesn't work - it doesn't work.  I dont think Flayra is under any expectations to make NS work for mapers, it should be the expectations of the mapers to make it work for NS.

Trane

I have another idea. Since this is a jungle planet, instead of even seeing the sky, make it so the skybox is a dense foilage, basically the canopy. Then, you can darken up your lighting, maybe even use mechanical lights to power your green house.  Add steam cause you are in a greenhouse/jungle type steamy, humid, hot place.  NOW, you have an indoor scifi steamy environment, which includes your beautiful plant and texture work.  Whats everyone think?

TychoCelchuuu

dats a pretty good idea! i like it, it will add mood.

realityisdead

<!--QuoteBegin--Silver Fox+Mar. 28 2002,03:23--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Silver Fox @ Mar. 28 2002,03:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont think Flayra is under any expectations to make NS work for mapers, it should be the expectations of the mapers to make it work for NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Exactly.</i>

Trane

And that is xactly what i was saying, that if he wants to have this greenhouse type area he better make it fit into ns.  I think the changes I suggested would be the mapper compromising for ns, not ns compromising for the mapper.  In no way does a steamy, neon lit, green house in the middle of the night, in anyway stray away from the theme being created by ns.

Flayra

Yep.  If it works in NS, it works in NS.  I'm not going to reject any great maps on technicalities.

Tzarcon

Sweet bajesus, that's incredible. Flayra, I don't think it should proove too much of a problem if the layout works with it, it would just be like a room that the marines have the advantage in. Personally, I think small outdoor areas like this one, especially when done absolutely <b>perfectly</b>(like this one) it actually makes the map better

Trane

I think thats what Flayra just agreed to... but dont quote me on that.

realityisdead

If it ends up matching what the original concept of this mod is... then I don't see why it wouldn't be included if it is indeed... good enough, for the lack of a better word, to be included. Heh, that doesn't make sense.

It's my understanding that the current stlye this specific outdoors area consists of... would <i>not</i> work in NS. Perhaps if he followed your guy's advice, and made it real creepy and NSish... It would be allowed, like Merkaba's.

Nothing can be judged until it's seen. I bet if he tried hard enough, he could make it fit in, but in its current form, this outdoors area just does not fit in with NS. Simple as that. It's not a matter of technically slapping it indoors, but more a matter of what kind of atmosphere is portrayed, really.

Overall, I don't think outdoors areas should be something one significantly plans for in this mod. Some people are going to create awesome outdoors areas that <i>will</i> fit in, and <i>will</i> probably have a good chance of becoming official if the rest of the map is up to snuff... But it really shouldn't be the norm. Nor should that point be argued with... Charlie actually has an overall plan for how he wants this thing to play, look, and feel... unlike most mods.

That's all... This thing just needs a consistent feel throughout.

So again... If he freaks the place up a bit, maybe it will work. Maybe it won't. There's only one way to find out, and I would really like to see this greenhouse thing in NS style. It probably would be very cool. We'll just have to see how it turns out, I guess.

Now this arguement really should come to an end. We seem to all understand the reasoning behind the "no-outdoors" bit, and I personally would have nothing wrong with running around in a freaky jungly steamhouse in NS. As long as it doesn't look like SS or UP.



<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Mar. 28 2002,20:33-->

Moleculor

<!--QuoteBegin--ken20banks+Mar. 28 2002,11:30--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ken20banks @ Mar. 28 2002,11:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Silver Fox+Mar. 28 2002,03:23--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Silver Fox @ Mar. 28 2002,03:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont think Flayra is under any expectations to make NS work for mapers, it should be the expectations of the mapers to make it work for NS.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Exactly.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one is asking him to.



I kinda like the canopy idea myself, but maybe the canopy should be a real canopy (3D trees) with a stormy sky above, and... umm.. A light above the trees that flashes at very rare random intervals along with thunder. That way you have lighning through the trees.

<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Trane

I think we are all on the same boat, now we just have to see what the mapper himself has to say, lol

realityisdead

<!--QuoteBegin--Moleculor+Mar. 29 2002,04:32--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Moleculor @ Mar. 29 2002,04:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I kinda like the canopy idea myself, but maybe the canopy should be a real canopy (3D trees) with a stormy sky above, and... umm.. A light above the trees that flashes at very rare random intervals along with thunder. That way you have lighning through the trees.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you imagine the shadows one could make appear on the ground from the trees when this happens? <i>Sweetness.</i>

Yep, I'm really not disagreeing with anyone here now... We just have to wait and see what sim can come up with.

Simsalabim

Well in my spare time ( in between Pivot Elements and 5! dimensional vector systems ) i removed the sky and added some gloomy ( yes it's true ) feeling to it.

WARNING: this was done in half an hour.
If you like it i will strongly improve the situation ( lightning etc. )
If you don't like it, I'll come up with something else...

Well No screenshots... but a 1,x Mb video ( 30 sec)

<a href="http://www.simsalabim.bluestream.de/files/nsjungle2.avi" target="_blank">Video 2</a>

Again DivX5 !! ( shouldn't be a problem, since Fl. has divx5 now  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> )

Trane

This does look sweet, but I think you could do a ton more with contrasting lighting effects.... I do realize its very early  <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->  and btw, sorry, I know everyone says use contrast in lighting and such and its becoming a very old subject, but It really could be applied well here and since im the first one to post i thought i should point it out, bla bla bla , lol

Quietus

<!--QuoteBegin--Trane+Mar. 27 2002,23:33--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Trane @ Mar. 27 2002,23:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have another idea. Since this is a jungle planet, instead of even seeing the sky, make it so the skybox is a dense foilage, basically the canopy. Then, you can darken up your lighting, maybe even use mechanical lights to power your green house.  Add steam cause you are in a greenhouse/jungle type steamy, humid, hot place.  NOW, you have an indoor scifi steamy environment, which includes your beautiful plant and texture work.  Whats everyone think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I prefered that idea...

This new one looks just odd to me for some reason.

Trane

what he said...

pielemuis

Sim: it'll look better if you put glass instead of solid walls in the greenhouse, but prolly thsi is just temperory?
Then use a dark/stormy sky, and use soem particle systems for rain, add soem fog in the greenhouse, use lighting with a high contrast and nice dark corners and pools of light, btw what are those white spheres in the skie, in your clip?
I like that red light tho <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

humbaba

Nice, the lighting level is perfect. All that it needs is a little color, a little attitude or pizazz. Its dark enough now  and the red lights look great.

chalupamonk

Cool.  One thing though, if you do decide to use a sky, I'd like to offer one of mine.  If you want, just PM me and I'll be glad to make one for you.

Fluorescentduck

Cattails grow in water, and not in jungles

TychoCelchuuu

theyre genetically engineered future cattails. good catch tho.

Fam

Theyre not cattails, theyre bullrushes.