Thanks for pointing out they'd released new stuff though align. I'd forgotten about it :3
Seeing as we're going on to mention other stuff from korea I figure I might as well show a few things that look interesting or different beyond what's already mentioned...
Ghost X has a definite 'side-scrolling beatemup' meets persona/supernatural shonen anime feel to it:
If you want something darker than Dragon's Nest and with even more over the top air juggle potential then maybe Continent of the Ninth will tickle your fancy?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1697902:date=Jan 18 2009, 03:37 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 18 2009, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been playing Demigod recently. It's still in Beta and it shows so I won't link it yet, but it's a cross between Diablo and RTS. The combat is pretty fun so far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't it basically retail version DotA? (Giev Beta, btw)
<!--quoteo(post=1698414:date=Jan 25 2009, 06:50 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 25 2009, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's probably a good lot I could mention but those'll do for now :3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like <a href="http://www.wakfu.com/en" target="_blank">Wakfu</a>?
Just for fun here's another one with fairly active looking combat (they're even making a big deal out of the fact you don't target enemies but rather you just attack in directions). I just stumbled across it this morning :3
The boss at the end looks interestingly vicious. One of the key things I watch out for in vids is if the player characters flinch and get knocked about; if they don't the chances are it's nothing more than a fancily animated toe to toe MMO like every other (well, except for global agenda of course, but it's fairly obvious it's an FPS type) :3
I signed up for Global Agenda two weeks ago or so, but I don't think it'll be like PlanetSide. More like Unreal Tournament and its assault missions. Also, Huxley <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MHQQIx81rTI"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MHQQIx81rTI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
I was really interested in Huxley until I saw in-game footage of it back when the koreans started leaking them. Don't know what it is but it looks too much like UT2k3/4 for my tastes and I prefer 3rd person for some reason (which Huxley isn't really made for as you can see in that vid when they try it).
As for global agenda, it looks like we signed up around the same time :D The devs said it would involve fighting over 'key areas' that players could warp to instantly in addition to more socially orientated places to trade and whatnot so I'm assuming it might have a more 'guild war' world structure though this is just an educated guess on my part and their talk of 'regions' and whatnot makes me uncertain :p Rather than unreal assault (did you mean onslaught? :o ) it looks much more like it'll play out like XMP (which was freaking awesome) due to it's class system, defence building and whatnot. I loved XMP and if it's anything like that or better I'll be pretty happy :3
I've been contemplating mentioning crimecraft and parabellum but I'm not sold on them quite yet, and I've yet to see any indication that parabellum has any other character creation options beyond "bald muscle man" ¬.¬
Planetside didn't have one, and that was a good thing. You had specialisations, but you could change them. One week I could be a support specialist with troop transports, AMSes and flying vehicle transport and repair facilities. Next week I could be a grunt with heavy armour and assault weaponry in all flavours. A week later I'm an infiltrator, specialising in harassment and sabotage. A week later again a fighter/bomber pilot. And so on and so forth.
In WoW (or almost any MMO you care to name), I'm stuck with my class. In this particular case, I'm a mage. And maybe I suddenly fancy playing a priest instead. So I roll a priest, only my friends (and my mage character) are all level awesome and I'm level suck, so now I can't play with them. Oh sure, I can respec my mage and... well, become a slightly different mage. But I can't become a healer or a tank.
That was my initial reaction but it appears the game allows you to make 'clones' which are pretty much your character again but you can specify a different class (they go in the same alliance as you and share the same family name). They allow you to have up to 3 clones of your character so you can have one of each class. It's not perfect but it's something at least...
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1697854:date=Jan 17 2009, 06:57 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 17 2009, 06:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Um... scythe... PSO had decent close combat that included knockback and it was playable without any issues whatsoever over 56k modem on the dreamcast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that's because all monster movement is handled clientside.
I'm surprised at what this game is trying to accomplish, but nothing about that trailer says MMO, it looks like PSO or something of the sort. As much as I'd love to beat the ###### out of monsters with friends in this, I'm waiting on MH3.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->classes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But then no one will be even slightly "unique" or "imba", which seems to be the point in most mmos. Sit and hope they patch stuff up and down to your advantage.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1698428:date=Jan 25 2009, 03:52 PM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Jan 25 2009, 03:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698428"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't it basically retail version DotA? (Giev Beta, btw)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Kinda. I never played DotA, but there are lots of comparisons on the forums. The main thing is that you focus on the larger picture(of the map) and engaging other demigods(your build/items vs theirs) rather than fighting the little guys at you feet. The little guys at your feet are basically resources and will never overwhelm you unless the other team is so far ahead or you do something really stupid like wade into a mass of them without any mana left.
I would link the beta now because the game has gotten much better over the past two releases, but preorder beta only :-(
I kinda like DoW though I still find producing units and whatnot a bit too much for my tastes... I'd rather concentrate on a small unit and a hero at most. Maybe Demigod is more my thing? :3
I'm tempted to pre-order (was planning on buying it anyway) but the whole impulse/stardock thing is scaring me :s
<b>spellman edit:</b> No idea. I don't think anyone here is in yet (it's still in alpha, the sign-ups are for the upcoming beta). Course, by the time we'll be able to tell you if it's worth playing or not the sign-ups might be closed or the like so I guess the only way to find out for sure is to take the plunge or wait :p
I'm trying to get a hold of a guy who claims to have a referral code which should make getting into alpha much more plausible, but he's been eluding my attempts so far.
Just for fun I've pre-ordered Demigod and I've had a play around. Seems fun but by golly I forgot how much I hate rotating a camera in a 3D RTS type thing... I want a fixed view goddammit :p
<b>edit:</b> come to think of it... Demigod isn't an MMO. Are the characters even persistant? It should probably have it's own thread instead of being in this MMO one XD
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1698549:date=Jan 26 2009, 04:26 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 26 2009, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just for fun I've pre-ordered Demigod and I've had a play around. Seems fun but by golly I forgot how much I hate rotating a camera in a 3D RTS type thing... I want a fixed view goddammit <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. It would be better if the view was fixed but you could see other demigods through your own. <!--quoteo(post=1698549:date=Jan 26 2009, 04:26 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 26 2009, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>edit:</b> come to think of it... Demigod isn't an MMO. Are the characters even persistant? It should probably have it's own thread instead of being in this MMO one XD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> True story. When I preordered I thought it would be like Rakion but it's actually nothing like that.
League of Legends (<a href="http://leagueoflegends.com/" target="_blank">link</a>) is a DotA game re-vamped, with some persistent elements on your avatar (which controls the heroes in the game) allowing "progression" of sorts, I guess. Who knows. But, then again, it's 1) not even in beta and 2) trying to be as DotA as possible.
Also, the friends I mentioned are in the Global Agenda alpha and also claim referral code access, so I might try GA just for kicks, although they said it doesn't have all that much in it yet. Just some basics like stealth and such. However, I tend to feel obligated to see it through, or at least give decent feedback before giving it up, which means taking time to actually test the game. Time I rarely have.
Well, LoL is very DotA because it's being made by some of the old DotA team :3
Well, if you do get a shot of global agenda alpha then do tell, I'm curious to know what it's like (or merely if it shows as much promise as the vids do :p ).
<!--quoteo(post=1698540:date=Jan 26 2009, 12:01 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Jan 26 2009, 12:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm trying to get a hold of a guy who claims to have a referral code which should make getting into alpha much more plausible, but he's been eluding my attempts so far.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Global Agenda is very cool. I happen to get lucky and snag one of the referral codes to get in... for alpha at least. I haven't played planetside, so I can't draw the correlation.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
I think MMOs need to take a page from Gears of War 2 in terms of PvE: Let two people play at different difficulty levels against the same enemies.
In GoW2, if there are 3 enemies, and the guy on hard attacks one, the one on easy attacks another, they will go down at relatively similar speeds(since easy person sucks). And when they get on the same target, easy person does more damage, etc.
Why don't MMOs do this? Higher levels still retain a lot more power because of the breadth of their abilities, and just the sophistication of their gear, but it doesn't shut lower levels out.
Quan, while I agree on development/progression being rewarded with breadth instead of depth, the 'difficulty' idea isn't so good... in a game where you're going to play the same char for months or even years along with over a million people, why would you handicap yourself with anything less than the 'easy' difficulty? The 'easy' players would eventually catch up when the more experienced players hit the skill ceiling and then they'd be more powerful. It works in a 'temporary' coop game where it's just you and a friend or two; where the consequences are over after you leave, but in a long term game it's not such a good idea :p
Besides, I find things like difficulty levels very artificial :/
Depth development is an issue as you say though; it causes divisions in the community (high levels and low levels can't really play together without it being a bit iffy or having some kind of immersion breaking mechanic like de-levelling) and means the developers essentially might end up making content that is wasted (players out-level a dungeon before they find it making it pointless and robbing them of the true experience it was crafted to give.). The situation is even worse in PvP games as some of the issues in WAR have helped to higlight; if you're not in the most populous 'tier' public quests are a bit of a nightmare (hence the introduction of 'easy' public quests which can be done single-handedly or with a smaller group than normal public quests) and PvP is fairly empty (long queues for scenarios and you can wander around the PvP lakes fairly uncontested at some times of the day). If you liked one of the old scenarios or PvP lakes but outlevelled it? Tough! you take one step into your old hunting grounds and you'll feel like chicken tonight; your reward for progression is having old content denied to you :p
While I didn't play Planetside personally I hear it was a much better game for having a 'breadth' development system; a new player could come in and be a valuable asset right off the bat. Older playes would merely be more flexible (e.g. they could have the implants to pilot a mech and use 3 different weapons while the newer player had to put up with only being equipped to handle one at a time). As such, everyone fought in the same places, together, and there was no 'loss of content' from progression or denial of content from lack of progression either.
You're pretty much right on the money regarding the certification system in Planetside. In fact, the scenario you describe is pretty much exactly how it went for me. I started playing the game a little over two years after it came out. On my second day, I joined an Outfit (Planetside's equivalent of a guild) where most of the players had played since the start, and I was useful to them right from the beginning (as much as a newbie can be). I also learned the ropes of the game very quickly because I was playing alongside seasoned veterans right away.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1700435:date=Feb 15 2009, 04:38 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Feb 15 2009, 04:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cool Thes, long time no see <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Quan, while I agree on development/progression being rewarded with breadth instead of depth, the 'difficulty' idea isn't so good... in a game where you're going to play the same char for months or even years along with over a million people, why would you handicap yourself with anything less than the 'easy' difficulty? The 'easy' players would eventually catch up when the more experienced players hit the skill ceiling and then they'd be more powerful. It works in a 'temporary' coop game where it's just you and a friend or two; where the consequences are over after you leave, but in a long term game it's not such a good idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Besides, I find things like difficulty levels very artificial :/
Depth development is an issue as you say though; it causes divisions in the community (high levels and low levels can't really play together without it being a bit iffy or having some kind of immersion breaking mechanic like de-levelling) and means the developers essentially might end up making content that is wasted (players out-level a dungeon before they find it making it pointless and robbing them of the true experience it was crafted to give.). The situation is even worse in PvP games as some of the issues in WAR have helped to higlight; if you're not in the most populous 'tier' public quests are a bit of a nightmare (hence the introduction of 'easy' public quests which can be done single-handedly or with a smaller group than normal public quests) and PvP is fairly empty (long queues for scenarios and you can wander around the PvP lakes fairly uncontested at some times of the day). If you liked one of the old scenarios or PvP lakes but outlevelled it? Tough! you take one step into your old hunting grounds and you'll feel like chicken tonight; your reward for progression is having old content denied to you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
While I didn't play Planetside personally I hear it was a much better game for having a 'breadth' development system; a new player could come in and be a valuable asset right off the bat. Older playes would merely be more flexible (e.g. they could have the implants to pilot a mech and use 3 different weapons while the newer player had to put up with only being equipped to handle one at a time). As such, everyone fought in the same places, together, and there was no 'loss of content' from progression or denial of content from lack of progression either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny thing is, you came to the conclusion in the completely opposite way of what I meant. The difficulty would be based off of the encounter, and thusly the reward. A good example, would be if you're playing WoW today at level 80, and you have a Sartharion raid coming up, while your friend just started on his Priest. Well, since Sarth with no drakes is pretty easy, you figure, "Well, he only has 1 healing ability, and with no good gear he won't do that great, but he can survive and be involved." Use a logarithmic scale to determine the 'simulated' level or gear level of the character(to a base that would be considered fairly low), and still bar them from winning gear, but have massive experience boosts be the thing to greet them. This would help keep players long term(as we've seen with WoW, its not about stringing people along- people will pay month after month even if they've finished all the content just because logging in and having fun week after week is good), and make sure people are having fun from the outset. Now, your more advanced content, folks won't want to run- and having too many people of that lower level will cripple you, regardless of skill, but you could still get them involved quickly. They just wouldn't be as useful as higher level folks because of the extra things they earn over time.
I keep hearing how awesome it was, but now it seems to be limping away. I'm guessing GA is trying to fill the gap. I should really get an access key when my schedule opens up.
There was actually a PlanetSide <i>newsletter</i> just a few weeks back. Had to pick my jaw up off the floor. Contained the usual "please join us in our tests for we have been ever so receptive to the demands of the community".
Planetside was never truly awesome though. Initially there were balance problems between the empires, as well as netcode problems. As those got fixed, they introduced new stuff which caused problems of its own. First the caves, which were ridiculously confusing in layout and hated by most, then the BFRs (large mechs) which were overpoweredly tough (though they get toned down later on).
But worse than all this was the lack of purpose in the game. You'd capture a continent, then move on to the next continent. Sometimes you'd capture another empire's home continents (usually because the third empire had the same thought at the same time and you ended up helping each other), which of course sucked for those guys because getting double-teamed is generally impossible to defend against. And then what? You could either try to defend for as long as possible (which was about as fun as spawncamping, for both sides) or you could withdraw as the other empire inevitably attacked you somewhere else. And no matter what you did this evening, tomorrow everything would've been undone by a few guys staying up into the wee hours hacking all the facilities back with no resistance.
The game lacked pacing. You didn't feel like you were part of some large military campaign, but rather a series of small skirmishes unconnected to any greater whole.
No, Planetside was never awesome. Some had fun with it, despite the flaws. Others didn't. Many left over the years, little new blood trickled in. It was a good attempt, but I fear it'll be long before we see a game that tries to do what Planetside tried, only better.
<!--quoteo(post=1700557:date=Feb 16 2009, 02:22 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 16 2009, 02:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, Planetside was never awesome. Some had fun with it, despite the flaws. Others didn't. Many left over the years, little new blood trickled in. It was a good attempt, but I fear it'll be long before we see a game that tries to do what Planetside tried, only better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
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<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__GsZsx7mcI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__GsZsx7mcI</a></div>
Thanks for pointing out they'd released new stuff though align. I'd forgotten about it :3
Seeing as we're going on to mention other stuff from korea I figure I might as well show a few things that look interesting or different beyond what's already mentioned...
Ghost X has a definite 'side-scrolling beatemup' meets persona/supernatural shonen anime feel to it:
<div align="center">Ghost X</div>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p5-9yw-FqJs"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p5-9yw-FqJs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5-9yw-FqJs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5-9yw-FqJs</a></div>
If you want something darker than Dragon's Nest and with even more over the top air juggle potential then maybe Continent of the Ninth will tickle your fancy?
<div align="center">C9</div>
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<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aJUKDhkqZA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aJUKDhkqZA</a></div>
If you're after something a bit more visceral looking then Blade and Soul has people quite excited...
<div align="center">Soul and Blade</div>
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<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtA1jSreK84" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtA1jSreK84</a></div>
If this is all a bit too korean for you and you miss planetside then you might want to join me in signing up for the western MMOFPS Global Agenda :3
<div align="center">Global Agenda</div>
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<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aox3FuXhK-U" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aox3FuXhK-U</a></div>
There's probably a good lot I could mention but those'll do for now :3
Isn't it basically retail version DotA? (Giev Beta, btw)
Like <a href="http://www.wakfu.com/en" target="_blank">Wakfu</a>?
<div align="center">Tera</div>
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<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFlTEZELrbw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFlTEZELrbw</a></div>
The boss at the end looks interestingly vicious. One of the key things I watch out for in vids is if the player characters flinch and get knocked about; if they don't the chances are it's nothing more than a fancily animated toe to toe MMO like every other (well, except for global agenda of course, but it's fairly obvious it's an FPS type) :3
Also, Huxley
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As for global agenda, it looks like we signed up around the same time :D
The devs said it would involve fighting over 'key areas' that players could warp to instantly in addition to more socially orientated places to trade and whatnot so I'm assuming it might have a more 'guild war' world structure though this is just an educated guess on my part and their talk of 'regions' and whatnot makes me uncertain :p
Rather than unreal assault (did you mean onslaught? :o ) it looks much more like it'll play out like XMP (which was freaking awesome) due to it's class system, defence building and whatnot. I loved XMP and if it's anything like that or better I'll be pretty happy :3
I've been contemplating mentioning crimecraft and parabellum but I'm not sold on them quite yet, and I've yet to see any indication that parabellum has any other character creation options beyond "bald muscle man" ¬.¬
Planetside didn't have one, and that was a good thing. You had specialisations, but you could change them. One week I could be a support specialist with troop transports, AMSes and flying vehicle transport and repair facilities. Next week I could be a grunt with heavy armour and assault weaponry in all flavours. A week later I'm an infiltrator, specialising in harassment and sabotage. A week later again a fighter/bomber pilot. And so on and so forth.
In WoW (or almost any MMO you care to name), I'm stuck with my class. In this particular case, I'm a mage. And maybe I suddenly fancy playing a priest instead. So I roll a priest, only my friends (and my mage character) are all level awesome and I'm level suck, so now I can't play with them. Oh sure, I can respec my mage and... well, become a slightly different mage. But I can't become a healer or a tank.
In summary, ###### class systems.
That was my initial reaction but it appears the game allows you to make 'clones' which are pretty much your character again but you can specify a different class (they go in the same alliance as you and share the same family name). They allow you to have up to 3 clones of your character so you can have one of each class. It's not perfect but it's something at least...
But that's because all monster movement is handled clientside.
I'm surprised at what this game is trying to accomplish, but nothing about that trailer says MMO, it looks like PSO or something of the sort. As much as I'd love to beat the ###### out of monsters with friends in this, I'm waiting on MH3.
But then no one will be even slightly "unique" or "imba", which seems to be the point in most mmos. Sit and hope they patch stuff up and down to your advantage.
Kinda. I never played DotA, but there are lots of comparisons on the forums. The main thing is that you focus on the larger picture(of the map) and engaging other demigods(your build/items vs theirs) rather than fighting the little guys at you feet. The little guys at your feet are basically resources and will never overwhelm you unless the other team is so far ahead or you do something really stupid like wade into a mass of them without any mana left.
I would link the beta now because the game has gotten much better over the past two releases, but preorder beta only :-(
I'm tempted to pre-order (was planning on buying it anyway) but the whole impulse/stardock thing is scaring me :s
<b>spellman edit:</b> No idea. I don't think anyone here is in yet (it's still in alpha, the sign-ups are for the upcoming beta). Course, by the time we'll be able to tell you if it's worth playing or not the sign-ups might be closed or the like so I guess the only way to find out for sure is to take the plunge or wait :p
<b>edit:</b> come to think of it... Demigod isn't an MMO. Are the characters even persistant? It should probably have it's own thread instead of being in this MMO one XD
I agree. It would be better if the view was fixed but you could see other demigods through your own.
<!--quoteo(post=1698549:date=Jan 26 2009, 04:26 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 26 2009, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698549"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>edit:</b> come to think of it... Demigod isn't an MMO. Are the characters even persistant? It should probably have it's own thread instead of being in this MMO one XD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True story. When I preordered I thought it would be like Rakion but it's actually nothing like that.
League of Legends (<a href="http://leagueoflegends.com/" target="_blank">link</a>) is a DotA game re-vamped, with some persistent elements on your avatar (which controls the heroes in the game) allowing "progression" of sorts, I guess. Who knows. But, then again, it's 1) not even in beta and 2) trying to be as DotA as possible.
Also, the friends I mentioned are in the Global Agenda alpha and also claim referral code access, so I might try GA just for kicks, although they said it doesn't have all that much in it yet. Just some basics like stealth and such. However, I tend to feel obligated to see it through, or at least give decent feedback before giving it up, which means taking time to actually test the game. Time I rarely have.
Well, if you do get a shot of global agenda alpha then do tell, I'm curious to know what it's like (or merely if it shows as much promise as the vids do :p ).
Global Agenda is very cool. I happen to get lucky and snag one of the referral codes to get in... for alpha at least. I haven't played planetside, so I can't draw the correlation.
In GoW2, if there are 3 enemies, and the guy on hard attacks one, the one on easy attacks another, they will go down at relatively similar speeds(since easy person sucks). And when they get on the same target, easy person does more damage, etc.
Why don't MMOs do this? Higher levels still retain a lot more power because of the breadth of their abilities, and just the sophistication of their gear, but it doesn't shut lower levels out.
Quan, while I agree on development/progression being rewarded with breadth instead of depth, the 'difficulty' idea isn't so good... in a game where you're going to play the same char for months or even years along with over a million people, why would you handicap yourself with anything less than the 'easy' difficulty? The 'easy' players would eventually catch up when the more experienced players hit the skill ceiling and then they'd be more powerful.
It works in a 'temporary' coop game where it's just you and a friend or two; where the consequences are over after you leave, but in a long term game it's not such a good idea :p
Besides, I find things like difficulty levels very artificial :/
Depth development is an issue as you say though; it causes divisions in the community (high levels and low levels can't really play together without it being a bit iffy or having some kind of immersion breaking mechanic like de-levelling) and means the developers essentially might end up making content that is wasted (players out-level a dungeon before they find it making it pointless and robbing them of the true experience it was crafted to give.).
The situation is even worse in PvP games as some of the issues in WAR have helped to higlight; if you're not in the most populous 'tier' public quests are a bit of a nightmare (hence the introduction of 'easy' public quests which can be done single-handedly or with a smaller group than normal public quests) and PvP is fairly empty (long queues for scenarios and you can wander around the PvP lakes fairly uncontested at some times of the day). If you liked one of the old scenarios or PvP lakes but outlevelled it? Tough! you take one step into your old hunting grounds and you'll feel like chicken tonight; your reward for progression is having old content denied to you :p
While I didn't play Planetside personally I hear it was a much better game for having a 'breadth' development system; a new player could come in and be a valuable asset right off the bat. Older playes would merely be more flexible (e.g. they could have the implants to pilot a mech and use 3 different weapons while the newer player had to put up with only being equipped to handle one at a time). As such, everyone fought in the same places, together, and there was no 'loss of content' from progression or denial of content from lack of progression either.
Quan, while I agree on development/progression being rewarded with breadth instead of depth, the 'difficulty' idea isn't so good... in a game where you're going to play the same char for months or even years along with over a million people, why would you handicap yourself with anything less than the 'easy' difficulty? The 'easy' players would eventually catch up when the more experienced players hit the skill ceiling and then they'd be more powerful.
It works in a 'temporary' coop game where it's just you and a friend or two; where the consequences are over after you leave, but in a long term game it's not such a good idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Besides, I find things like difficulty levels very artificial :/
Depth development is an issue as you say though; it causes divisions in the community (high levels and low levels can't really play together without it being a bit iffy or having some kind of immersion breaking mechanic like de-levelling) and means the developers essentially might end up making content that is wasted (players out-level a dungeon before they find it making it pointless and robbing them of the true experience it was crafted to give.).
The situation is even worse in PvP games as some of the issues in WAR have helped to higlight; if you're not in the most populous 'tier' public quests are a bit of a nightmare (hence the introduction of 'easy' public quests which can be done single-handedly or with a smaller group than normal public quests) and PvP is fairly empty (long queues for scenarios and you can wander around the PvP lakes fairly uncontested at some times of the day). If you liked one of the old scenarios or PvP lakes but outlevelled it? Tough! you take one step into your old hunting grounds and you'll feel like chicken tonight; your reward for progression is having old content denied to you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
While I didn't play Planetside personally I hear it was a much better game for having a 'breadth' development system; a new player could come in and be a valuable asset right off the bat. Older playes would merely be more flexible (e.g. they could have the implants to pilot a mech and use 3 different weapons while the newer player had to put up with only being equipped to handle one at a time). As such, everyone fought in the same places, together, and there was no 'loss of content' from progression or denial of content from lack of progression either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny thing is, you came to the conclusion in the completely opposite way of what I meant. The difficulty would be based off of the encounter, and thusly the reward. A good example, would be if you're playing WoW today at level 80, and you have a Sartharion raid coming up, while your friend just started on his Priest. Well, since Sarth with no drakes is pretty easy, you figure, "Well, he only has 1 healing ability, and with no good gear he won't do that great, but he can survive and be involved." Use a logarithmic scale to determine the 'simulated' level or gear level of the character(to a base that would be considered fairly low), and still bar them from winning gear, but have massive experience boosts be the thing to greet them. This would help keep players long term(as we've seen with WoW, its not about stringing people along- people will pay month after month even if they've finished all the content just because logging in and having fun week after week is good), and make sure people are having fun from the outset. Now, your more advanced content, folks won't want to run- and having too many people of that lower level will cripple you, regardless of skill, but you could still get them involved quickly. They just wouldn't be as useful as higher level folks because of the extra things they earn over time.
I keep hearing how awesome it was, but now it seems to be limping away. I'm guessing GA is trying to fill the gap. I should really get an access key when my schedule opens up.
Contained the usual "please join us in our tests for we have been ever so receptive to the demands of the community".
But worse than all this was the lack of purpose in the game. You'd capture a continent, then move on to the next continent. Sometimes you'd capture another empire's home continents (usually because the third empire had the same thought at the same time and you ended up helping each other), which of course sucked for those guys because getting double-teamed is generally impossible to defend against. And then what? You could either try to defend for as long as possible (which was about as fun as spawncamping, for both sides) or you could withdraw as the other empire inevitably attacked you somewhere else. And no matter what you did this evening, tomorrow everything would've been undone by a few guys staying up into the wee hours hacking all the facilities back with no resistance.
The game lacked pacing. You didn't feel like you were part of some large military campaign, but rather a series of small skirmishes unconnected to any greater whole.
No, Planetside was never awesome. Some had fun with it, despite the flaws. Others didn't. Many left over the years, little new blood trickled in. It was a good attempt, but I fear it'll be long before we see a game that tries to do what Planetside tried, only better.
And yet there's Global Agenda. =]