TF2 Scout update info
Thansal
The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Releas is next week</div>Release*
<a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/</a>
First up is the Bat replacement. Gives you a ranged stun attack, removes your double jump (not sure if "carrying" = holding or just in your load out).
Looks like it could be horribly sick. The ability to stop an ubered medic in his track is just kinda evil.
<a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress.com/scoutupdate/</a>
First up is the Bat replacement. Gives you a ranged stun attack, removes your double jump (not sure if "carrying" = holding or just in your load out).
Looks like it could be horribly sick. The ability to stop an ubered medic in his track is just kinda evil.
Comments
I don't like the possibility of spamming with this weapon however, but I won't pass judgement until I've used it.
Baseball ping pong?
I am hoping for low ammo count and long 'reload'
It's gonnah be medic spam all over again! instead of needles everywhere to kill scouts, now were going to see baseball spam trying to stun medics
AH SWEET REVENGE <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Consider that this allows the scout to provide some medium- to long-range support in situations where he can't go in close and do damage due to turrets or massive spam: Hit a baseball in there, and if it hits one of the enemies is frozen in place, giving your soldiers, demomen and snipers a nice, stationary target to aim for. I'm thinking of maps like Dustbowl which usually have a "killzone" at the end of the map that is practically inaccessible to scouts. At the same time, this is also the kind of situation where the loss of your doublejump will least affect you.
Not having enough downside didn't stop them from implementing the backburner, or any of the mele unlockables. Even though I've started playing again I'm still extremely disappointed in valve for pushing this whole grinding concept on a ###### FPS and as such refuse to use them (not that my two main classes even have unlockables yet).
Edit: Speaking of disappointment, I'm gone a year and already the servers have degraded into a bunch of "X Only"s? Don't get me wrong, I like warpath pl_* and dustbowl as much as the next guy but finding a decent server with a decent number of players and a normal map rotation is practically impossible.
Seriously, whoever's idea it was to tie the new weapons to a bunch of stupid crap needs to go sit in the "this is not fun" room until they get the picture. I don't play TF2 for the long term attachment I form to my characters, I play it because I want to spend the night relaxing with my friends shooting people in a beautiful, hilarious game. It's no fun to not be able to play with any of the new toys just because I haven't ubered a Scout who proceeds to critical-hit 5 heavies in a row with a baseball bat before taunting on a CP guarded by a cloaked spy who has picked a weapon up off the ground that was dropped by a friendly pyro.
Not to mention the horrible spectacle of all the idiots running around trying to get the new weapons in the first few weeks after each patch, which pretty much ruins most servers. Honestly. Achievements are fine in HL2 or Portal where I can work towards them if I want and ignore them if I want, but tying them into the fun new toys that I want to try out and therefore crowding my server with a bunch of mooks who aren't playing to have fun or to win but to unlock the new doodad is just irritating in the extreme.
As it stands I got my medic unlocks with out farming, simply with playing medic (AFTER the first rush). I got the pyro ones with a little bit of farming, and I got the heavy ones by screwing around on an achievement server for about 30 mins (and my statistics show it). IT all came down to how much I wanted to play the class.
That being said, I don't expect them to do it right this time around either, and thus I will not be playing scout for the next few weeks, instead I will be playing pyro and heavy (with Natasha) just to piss off all the little twits.
Personally I don't see the problem with having unlockables require achievements. They seem to be structured such that the important, gameplay-affecting, unlock is the first available that almost everyone will get instantly. The L3 unlocks are generally frippery intended to reward the hardc(k)ore.
And yes, I'm certain that having the sandman in your inventory, equipped or not, will remove your double-jump.
--Scythe--
Still, I'll save the potential whining for when I can have an informed opinion.
Also: I'm really looking forward to killing tons of scouts during the inevitable post-update rush.
Also also: Comments on the recent demo-man changes?
If I understand it correctly (which I might not), any stickies within 512 units of the demoman won't deal full damage until 5 seconds after they've been spawned.
Why not just make this ###### available to everyone instead of forcing them to use a script or special achievement server or ruin actual games to have the full range of tactical options? Hell, why not just replace all the regular pyro weapons since it seems absolutely nobody who's unlocked the other three bothers with anything else.
Now, I'll admit that as a mostly casual gamer I have a <strike>seething hatred</strike> distaste for any kind of grind, but for the life of me I can't figure out what possessed them to include it in an FPS in the first place.
The weapons aren't any more useful than the weapons they replace, except admittedly the medic. But if you play medic regularly enough to need the unlocks, you'll get them anyway.
I am a terrible pyro, and I am a sub-par heavy, and I got the unlocks within a week of regular play (i.e. not specifically trying to get the unlocks).
Originally, the unlocks were a grind. They were a pain in the ass to get. That's why they drastically lowered the milestone achievements. They are now pretty easy to get by just playing the class as they're supposed to be played, and should cause no problems to the average gamer.
Plus, like I said, the unlocks aren't inherently more useful than the weapon they replace (except, again, the medic ones). I have every unlocked weapon and the only ones I have equipped are the needle gun and bonesaw replacement, and the KGB and axtinguisher (which I never use 'cos I suck at melee and usually play demo anyway).
And the pyro. I've never seen a pyro not use the backburner, flaregun, and axestinguisher if he had them. Only the heavy seems to have good tradeoffs on his unlockables (except the KGB of course).
And yes, it is grind because in order to have the same tactical options as the other team I need to have all the unlockables. I don't know about you, but I don't like being artificially gimped just because I haven't played the game as long as someone else.
The backburner is no replacement for the airblast. The flare gun is no replacement for the shotgun in pretty much every situation. The axtinguisher is only useful if you're good with melee in the first place.
Like I said, the unlocks are not better than the regular weapons, they're just different. The fact that a load of 'tarded pubbers think LOL INSTA CRIT FROM BEHIND is a fantastic weapon to use, and then rush headfirst into the other team, does not mean that the weapon is better.
I disagree. The pyro is mostly an ambush class, making 100% crit on backs very useful compared to the ability to push some stuff out of the way or maybe reflect a rocket. The shotgun, being a close range weapon, is only really useful if your primary is empty anyway, since that doesn't happen that often the flare gun's long range and ability to set snipers on fire from across the map is definitely more useful. The axestinguisher... you're a pyro, if your enemy isn't on fire you aren't playing right anyway.
Like I said, I don't know where you play, but I have never seen a pyro use the standard weapons if they had the unlockables. I've especially never seen a pyro shotgun since I came back. Ever.
And just fyi, before you resort to the "in competitive play" hogwash: Nobody gives a damn about competitive play, least of all casual players like me.
I'm willing to admit that maybe I'm wrong about the pyro. After all, I never play that class. But you cannot deny that the "different" weapons do not allow for different tactical options, which are restricted to only those players who've spent extra time grinding.
Edit: Just one more thing: I've detailed why I think tying the unlockables to achievements (grind) is bad, do you have anything at all to say in support of it?
I am not a competitive player. At all. Nowadays I play about once a week, at most. What I am saying is, the fact that everybody uses the unlockable weapons is not proof that they are better weapons. It is proof that people think they are.
It is not a grind, as I said before. If you play the class, you'll get at least two of the unlocks by just playing normally within a week of an hour or so a day. That is not me being like "omg i'm so l33t ur just a n00b and can't do it".
If you play the class, you'll get the unlocks. If you don't play the class, why are you complaining about not having the same tactical ability? You don't need it; you don't play the class.
What was wrong with "Winning the game"? or even "Getting better at the game"? or, god forbid, "having fun"?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->something to give players who focus on their class a new set of options.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why can't they have them without the grind?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is not a grind, as I said before. If you play the class, you'll get at least two of the unlocks by just playing normally within a week of an hour or so a day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even if I don't count that as grind (which I do), you still have to grind for the third one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you don't play the class, why are you complaining about not having the same tactical ability?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If they released spy unlockables tomorrow, you bet your ass I'd want them, but you can also bet I'd be turned off by the idea of having to grind for them. If it ever seemed helpful for the team to have another pyro, I'd like to be able to do it with the knowledge that I wasn't being artificially limited. Furthermore, any desire I may have one had to improve my play as a pyro has vanished, since the time investment necessary has increased significantly.
Truth.ls
<!--quoteo(post=1700737:date=Feb 17 2009, 11:22 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Feb 17 2009, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the pyro. I've never seen a pyro not use the backburner, flaregun, and axestinguisher if he had them. Only the heavy seems to have good tradeoffs on his unlockables (except the KGB of course).
And yes, it is grind because in order to have the same tactical options as the other team I need to have all the unlockables. I don't know about you, but I don't like being artificially gimped just because I haven't played the game as long as someone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't use any of the pyros specials, although I really should use the axetigisher. Being able to take soldiers/demos head on at choke points and bounce ubers is worth it IMo.
I.... I don't get where you're coming from here. You're saying that you're annoyed that people who play more than you can get more stuff?
You seem to be making the argument that you're being held back from having the full set of weapons, and that's just a false way of looking at it. You're not being held back, the players with the weapons have moved forward.
And again, you seem to be thinking that the unlocks are significantly better than the base weapons. Why is pyro suddenly worthless to play because you "missed the boat" of the achievement rush and you don't have the back burner?
Um... yeah, thats exactly what I'm saying. I don't think you should have an artificial advantage just because you have more free time than I do.
And I never said they were significantly better (except maybe the pyro weapons), just that they offered tactical options that aren't available to anyone who hasn't played enough of the game. I see no reason why they can't just be given to everybody, and I can see several reasons why making you grind for them is a bad idea.
And I never said they were significantly better (except maybe the pyro weapons), just that they offered tactical options that aren't available to anyone who hasn't played enough of the game. I see no reason why they can't just be given to everybody, and I can see several reasons why making you grind for them is a bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
look, do you have 10-20 free mins at some point? Just pop up the server browser, type achievement into the map box and join one of the servers with 'people' in them.
yes, it is kinda silly to tie them to achievements, and some people will just never get them from playing, but they are not exactly HARD to get. I don't play heavy and I decided to go get them so I joined an achievement server and got em. It took me 10 mins 56 secs (probably should have taken less time but I was screwing around).
Also, pyro unlocks suck. The backburner has about the same chance to register properly as the backstab, just with out face stabs. The flare gun is good but not better then the shotgun for the same reason the axestinguisher is. The flaregun is good for pissing people off from long ranges, the shotgun is there for finishing people off that are running away, and the axestinguisher is for finishing off people that charge you.
The only unlocks I use are:
Vampire gun: topping off my health, but I rarely use it.
Uber Saw: The one that I argue is 100% better, as free uber charge is great, but then I don't use it much.
Natasha: Only time I use the heavy is when I want to deal with scout rushes.
KGB: Best Taunt Ever.
Axestinguisher: Theoretically it should be better... (I have about 2 axestinguisher kills)
So, that is 2 of the unlocks that I actually use. I doubt I will be using the Sandman much as the reason I play scout is to be faster then a flea on crack.
Meh, I don't think it is the best idea, but I don't think it is anything to get worked up over.