locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited February 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1701008:date=Feb 20 2009, 01:49 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Feb 20 2009, 01:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->meh, I got my <b>unattended</b> SG counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Scout will still be mostly useless on defend maps with SG's on the point.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701005:date=Feb 20 2009, 02:46 PM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZiGGY @ Feb 20 2009, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's called "Air Blast" my friend, air blast xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really haven't seen enough pyros manage to actually separate the medic and the ubered friend. Stickies can do it like a charm, and sandman looks like it will completely stop an uber push.
<!--quoteo(post=1701010:date=Feb 20 2009, 02:52 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Feb 20 2009, 02:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scout will still be mostly useless on defend maps with SG's on the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> True, but you generally don't actually have an SG covering the point itself, just the path(s) to it.
Ok, that is a lie.
Gravel Pit points A and B have SGs on em, but not C.
Dustbowl: First point yes, 2nd no, 3rd not really (you can be on point and out of line of the SG), 4th same deal, 5th rarely, 6th yes.
Hydro: Yes.
So it is sorta 50/50.
Push maps should be interesting.
And CTF maps are where I really wanted to see this.
My big curiosity is how tracking will work. Normally SGs track the nearest baddie, will they still track the scout? Will it work for a scout to distract an SG as others knock it down? and how exactly do scouts 'dodge' bullets? Do they pass through you or do they still stop when they connect? (aka, can a scout tank a lvl 1/2 SG?)
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701012:date=Feb 20 2009, 02:00 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Feb 20 2009, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My big curiosity is how tracking will work. Normally SGs track the nearest baddie, will they still track the scout? Will it work for a scout to distract an SG as others knock it down? and how exactly do scouts 'dodge' bullets? Do they pass through you or do they still stop when they connect? (aka, can a scout tank a lvl 1/2 SG?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's true that could be very interesting. Maybe you could chain it (with multiple scouts).
<!--quoteo(post=1700998:date=Feb 20 2009, 07:23 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Feb 20 2009, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But exploits *aren't* cheats. As locally said, and I have said, an exploit is a developer problem. The people who use an exploit are playing within the rules defined by the game. If Valve doesn't want people doing that, they should test more thoroughly so that the players aren't doing their job for them and then getting punished for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exploiting and cheating are basically the same thing, they just work differently. You can't claim that you thought that the scout was supposed to have a rocket launcher. Everyone knows this isn't how the game is supposed to work. The fact that there is a glitch or loophole in the system doesn't excuse using it.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701017:date=Feb 20 2009, 02:49 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 20 2009, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701017"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exploiting and cheating are basically the same thing, they just work differently. You can't claim that you thought that the scout was supposed to have a rocket launcher. Everyone knows this isn't how the game is supposed to work. The fact that there is a glitch or loophole in the system doesn't excuse using it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> By your definition of cheating, sure exploiting is the same as cheating. That doesn't mean hacking, exploiting, macroing, and scripting are all the same. You can call it cheating if you want, but an exploit is not the same as a wall hack or macro or script.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited February 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1701024:date=Feb 20 2009, 03:19 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 20 2009, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fine then. Exploiting etc. falls under the broader category of cheating. Better?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure and you claim it is Valve's prerogative to prevent the nebulous category of "cheating" which you define as you see fit. I wish to neither assign that responsibility nor that control to them. VAC is decent anti-hack software, but it hardly stops anything else, and I would not want software more invasive anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1701012:date=Feb 20 2009, 08:00 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Feb 20 2009, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really haven't seen enough pyros manage to actually separate the medic and the ubered friend. Stickies can do it like a charm, and sandman looks like it will completely stop an uber push.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you can hit them before they turn you into a fine red mist.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Beanball: Stun a scout with their own ball.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So scouts can knock back the stunballs launched from other scouts. I wonder if pyros will be able to airblast them back, too.
So it seems to be hinting that the next unlock has a knockback and rocket-jumping style effect? Interesting. Also, the energy drink might just give a %change to dodge, so it's not like you become invincible it just allows you to escape that heavy you walk into around a corner.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Hmm. It might have a greater damage output, but be more dependant on distance. So if you're right up close, it'll do more damage than the scattergun.
They'd probably counter balance that with a lower firing rate, and it seems to knock the scout back quite far if it's going to let the scout reach places a demo jumper can. So you have to get right in close and you've got one chance for a hit before you get knocked way back.
I dunno though. If the damage is reduced it seems kinda useless. There aren't many spots on the map that the scout can't already reach, and those that he can't reach are useless for the scout. Maybe it'd be useful as a quick getaway from a fire fight, but that seems to be what the Bonk! is for.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
edited February 2009
I'm not a particularly good scout, especially at combat. I can run around dodging like a madman, but can't kill very well, so maybe my understanding of scout combat is limited.... but here's my line of reasoning.
Basically, as I see it, the strength of the scout is that he can out-maneuver other classes while still retaining strong control over his position (whereas a soldier rocket jumping around generally loses a bit of control unless they're uber l33t). You can circle strafe and jump around firing and remaining in perfect control and stuff.
But once you add a significant knockback to the weapon, you can't do that any more. You're stuck to the ground because if you jump and fire, I assume you'll be knocked back even further (similar to jumping while a sentry gun is shooting you), and once you fire, your aim will be knocked off aim, and the weapon damage will drop (because you're knocked further away).
So you might be able to run up and get a single kill, but you'll get knocked out of 100% control and probably in front of someone else.
Then again, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it's a one-on-one fight with no one else around.
But one of the achievements is get x amount of kills in the back with the shotgun unlock, so maybe it'll have a crit effect or something.
-Scattergun with secondary fire used as a additional jump...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough cough* We'll see how near I came when it's released.
As I've been away I noticed you guys have already chewed through the 'immobilization' bit and I'll leave it at that, I don't like it tho. Valve aint the type to add cooldown timers. Do I sense a hint of knockback boost in the description and achievements?
Bonk!, well, I feel sorry for heavies if you can still shoot while in dodge mode.
Still love any update I can get, good nerfing on demomen.
I've made a minimalistic HUD that, whilst designed for soldiers, works for every class but is especially good for scouts.
<a href="http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpdustbowl0009.jpg" target="_blank">Link here</a>, it's only a couple of configs and passes sv_pure (i.e. is legit) so I can send it around if anyone is interested.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1701118:date=Feb 22 2009, 08:30 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Feb 22 2009, 08:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've made a minimalistic HUD that, whilst designed for soldiers, works for every class but is especially good for scouts.
<a href="http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpdustbowl0009.jpg" target="_blank">Link here</a>, it's only a couple of configs and passes sv_pure (i.e. is legit) so I can send it around if anyone is interested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It passes sv_pure even though there doesn't appear to be a model for your SG in FP?
That's probably not part of the HUD <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1701130:date=Feb 22 2009, 05:40 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Feb 22 2009, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It passes sv_pure even though there doesn't appear to be a model for your SG in FP?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve unlocked it in a recent update. r_drawviewmodel 0 in console or options -> multiplayer -> advanced.
Put the most annoying things last. No fun when everyone has the most wanted unlock first, especially now when they have made achievements easy as pie mostly.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
OMG it's the bonk force of nature, Sandman! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
Scout will still be mostly useless on defend maps with SG's on the point.
I really haven't seen enough pyros manage to actually separate the medic and the ubered friend. Stickies can do it like a charm, and sandman looks like it will completely stop an uber push.
<!--quoteo(post=1701010:date=Feb 20 2009, 02:52 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Feb 20 2009, 02:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1701010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scout will still be mostly useless on defend maps with SG's on the point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but you generally don't actually have an SG covering the point itself, just the path(s) to it.
Ok, that is a lie.
Gravel Pit points A and B have SGs on em, but not C.
Dustbowl: First point yes, 2nd no, 3rd not really (you can be on point and out of line of the SG), 4th same deal, 5th rarely, 6th yes.
Hydro: Yes.
So it is sorta 50/50.
Push maps should be interesting.
And CTF maps are where I really wanted to see this.
My big curiosity is how tracking will work. Normally SGs track the nearest baddie, will they still track the scout? Will it work for a scout to distract an SG as others knock it down? and how exactly do scouts 'dodge' bullets? Do they pass through you or do they still stop when they connect? (aka, can a scout tank a lvl 1/2 SG?)
That's true that could be very interesting. Maybe you could chain it (with multiple scouts).
Exploiting and cheating are basically the same thing, they just work differently. You can't claim that you thought that the scout was supposed to have a rocket launcher. Everyone knows this isn't how the game is supposed to work. The fact that there is a glitch or loophole in the system doesn't excuse using it.
By your definition of cheating, sure exploiting is the same as cheating. That doesn't mean hacking, exploiting, macroing, and scripting are all the same. You can call it cheating if you want, but an exploit is not the same as a wall hack or macro or script.
Sure and you claim it is Valve's prerogative to prevent the nebulous category of "cheating" which you define as you see fit. I wish to neither assign that responsibility nor that control to them. VAC is decent anti-hack software, but it hardly stops anything else, and I would not want software more invasive anyway.
If you can hit them before they turn you into a fine red mist.
So scouts can knock back the stunballs launched from other scouts. I wonder if pyros will be able to airblast them back, too.
Should be fun.
Also, the energy drink might just give a %change to dodge, so it's not like you become invincible it just allows you to escape that heavy you walk into around a corner.
They'd probably counter balance that with a lower firing rate, and it seems to knock the scout back quite far if it's going to let the scout reach places a demo jumper can. So you have to get right in close and you've got one chance for a hit before you get knocked way back.
I dunno though. If the damage is reduced it seems kinda useless. There aren't many spots on the map that the scout can't already reach, and those that he can't reach are useless for the scout. Maybe it'd be useful as a quick getaway from a fire fight, but that seems to be what the Bonk! is for.
Basically, as I see it, the strength of the scout is that he can out-maneuver other classes while still retaining strong control over his position (whereas a soldier rocket jumping around generally loses a bit of control unless they're uber l33t). You can circle strafe and jump around firing and remaining in perfect control and stuff.
But once you add a significant knockback to the weapon, you can't do that any more. You're stuck to the ground because if you jump and fire, I assume you'll be knocked back even further (similar to jumping while a sentry gun is shooting you), and once you fire, your aim will be knocked off aim, and the weapon damage will drop (because you're knocked further away).
So you might be able to run up and get a single kill, but you'll get knocked out of 100% control and probably in front of someone else.
Then again, that wouldn't be much of a problem if it's a one-on-one fight with no one else around.
But one of the achievements is get x amount of kills in the back with the shotgun unlock, so maybe it'll have a crit effect or something.
-Scattergun with secondary fire used as a additional jump...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough cough* We'll see how near I came when it's released.
As I've been away I noticed you guys have already chewed through the 'immobilization' bit and I'll leave it at that, I don't like it tho. Valve aint the type to add cooldown timers. Do I sense a hint of knockback boost in the description and achievements?
Bonk!, well, I feel sorry for heavies if you can still shoot while in dodge mode.
Still love any update I can get, good nerfing on demomen.
<a href="http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpdustbowl0009.jpg" target="_blank">Link here</a>, it's only a couple of configs and passes sv_pure (i.e. is legit) so I can send it around if anyone is interested.
<a href="http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpdustbowl0009.jpg" target="_blank">Link here</a>, it's only a couple of configs and passes sv_pure (i.e. is legit) so I can send it around if anyone is interested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It passes sv_pure even though there doesn't appear to be a model for your SG in FP?
Valve unlocked it in a recent update. r_drawviewmodel 0 in console or options -> multiplayer -> advanced.
Also, VOTE 4 FORCANATUR OR DIE
Quadruple!
*Hopes bonk is last upgrade*
Put the most annoying things last. No fun when everyone has the most wanted unlock first, especially now when they have made achievements easy as pie mostly.