InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
edited May 2009
To be honest, I don't mind too much if there's load of new players coming, because I only recently started playing TF2 and it might level the playing field a bit and stop me being <i>constantly</i> owned by <i>everyone</i>.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1707373:date=May 21 2009, 07:52 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ May 21 2009, 07:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"You now find new and old items as you play, instead of through achievements"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Where is this?
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
edited May 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1707373:date=May 21 2009, 11:52 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ May 21 2009, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707373"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"You now find new and old items as you play, instead of through achievements"
Way to #### it up twice as bad, Valve. Now I have to grind no matter what; I can't even unlock it through the Steam Achievement Manager.
Actually, if they are easy to find, I won't be mad, but if I have to grind for my freaking unlocks I'm going to be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have absolutely no idea how the game picks what weapon to give you, a heavy in a game I just played got the Huntsman <i>twice</i>. It doesn't matter what class you play you'll just randomly get a weapon for another class you don't have. It might be that you get them by killing the class that they're from? but I have no idea. I got the Jarate as sniper in a game and another sniper on my team got the bow, we were both cursing at each other because we wanted each others guns.
It's just so ###### annoying how random it is. I just want the bow. please? ;_;
(also friendly pyros can set the arrows on fire, that is so ###### awesome)
Edit: It's completely ###### random, got the bonk 5 seconds into dustbowl in the setup time and the cloak and dagger just randomly when I died. Thanks valve for making experiencing the new content a ###### roll of the dice to give people weapons they already have and new weapons twice over where other people will see nothing for 4+ hours. I don't care about the spy weapons, I don't play spy.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
If you get the huntsman while playing as heavy, can you then use the huntsman when you switch to sniper? Or does it only count if you're playing the proper class when you get the new weapon.
Ambassador shoots through walls. Don't stand near startup grates. Or in sight of them. (or at least so the internet tells me, havent tested it yet) (other things the internet tells me: "Also, the way you grind is leave your computer on on one server throughout the night." spectate on bot server for a night, reciev unlocks)
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1707394:date=May 22 2009, 08:01 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ May 22 2009, 08:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you get the huntsman while playing as heavy, can you then use the huntsman when you switch to sniper? Or does it only count if you're playing the proper class when you get the new weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you get the weapon unlocked permanently no matter what class you are when you get it.
I just don't understand how Valve managed to hire a guy whose idea of fun is farming for items. I mean, you don't have to do that in any of their other games; how does this guy convince them that TF2 is the perfect place for ph4t l3wt? I don't have to grind for my auto shotgun in Counterstrike or unlock smoke grenades in Day of Defeat: Source.
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1707406:date=May 22 2009, 12:45 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ May 22 2009, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sounds like corpse loot drops... What is next when all classes have had their update cycle...
Epic loot and an auction house game type?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's absolutely random (as random as a computer can be :V) I've heard people talk about how they've seen the same demoman get the razorback twice while dead, people getting ambasaddor/huntsman while afk in spec. It's just so dumb that the new unlocks are dependant on such a ###### system for dedicing who gets what and when.
Of course the fevered righteous defenders of Valve will holler about 'well just play tf2 as you would normally and have fun!' You know what isn't fun? Having this huge 8 day parade with the new unlocks and updates and then having a COMPUTER decide what you get. It could be a brand new weapon 3 seconds into your very first game of the free weekend or you could get 5 bonks in a row? Who cares if you could play for days on end and only get weapons you already have, that's just fun silly!
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited May 2009
1 step forward, 2 steps back.
Letting achievements stand on their own is a good thing, but they have failed to address the grind issue. In fact, it seems they have made it worse by removing the player's control... Terrible game design--you should never remove player control. One of the main things that make people find a game enjoyable is the sense of control.
It does sound pretty f'ed up. Lots of glitches and stuff too. It makes me wonder if they even have QA people / playtest sessions at Valve Corp, or if they were just rushing to get it out for memorial day weekend (QA people should have caught the problems with the achivements, playtesters should have caught the inherent lack of fun with the new system).
Despite all this, I think the worst thing they have done here is to not actually explain the new system, or the logic behind it. As a reuslt, there is tons of chaos and confusion.
With all the great marketing going into the days leading up to the update, how do they screw up the actual update day so badly?
Man, Valve really made a mess of that game. Yesterday I was having fun with TF2 and today it's a facestabbing sniper pissjar lolloloollolo h0w 1 g3t wepanz?!?!1+1+- nightmare.
I guess I'll have to leave TF2 running to get all the kool loots and epix, and get back to playing in a few months.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why don't they just let us have the items and be done with it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good ###### question. I share Tycho's sentiment, what moron at valve is convincing them that these are good ideas?
In light of how they ###### this up I'm going to uninstall TF2 again until a day when they either fix this ###### or I'm sufficiently bored.
RPS is down, so what I say may be redundant, but apparently you can taunt while cloaked. Which means you can get taunt kills while cloaked. And this even works on sentries. So you can instantly kill a sentry while cloaked. Nicely done.
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1707429:date=May 22 2009, 06:24 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 22 2009, 06:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->RPS is down, so what I say may be redundant, but apparently you can taunt while cloaked. Which means you can get taunt kills while cloaked. And this even works on sentries. So you can instantly kill a sentry while cloaked. Nicely done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here’s the full skinny from Robin Walker:
“As in everything else we do, we want to iterate, so this is really the first step towards our desired implementation. We also think we have bugs in the system as well, since we’re seeing some players not finding any items after a few hours of play, which is not at all how it’s tuned. We want unlockable drops to be a pretty regular occurrence for players, with the cosmetic hats being the rare finds.â€
<!--quoteo(post=1707421:date=May 22 2009, 08:39 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ May 22 2009, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707421"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Totally F******* retarded. Next they'll do an EVE and you earn levels over a period of time to make the weapon stronger!
Oh and I never ever do these but I'm that annoyed,
<a href="http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tf2unlock/" target="_blank">Bring Back TF2 Achievement Unlocks Online Petition</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But can't you still get unlocks via achievements? Today I joined an empty 2fort server and got a few achievements for Scout (capturing without shooting and capturing three times in a row). I unlocked the first milestone and got the Force-A-Nature.
But I agree that both ways are stupid, the achievement one is slightly less. What's going on at Valve?
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1707435:date=May 22 2009, 06:59 PM:name=Retales)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Retales @ May 22 2009, 06:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But can't you still get unlocks via achievements? Today I joined an empty 2fort server and got a few achievements for Scout (capturing without shooting and capturing three times in a row). I unlocked the first milestone and got the Force-A-Nature.
But I agree that both ways are stupid, the achievement one is slightly less. What's going on at Valve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can still unlock all the guns via milestone achivements with the other classes, just that the random item giver might give you the same weapon you just unlocked.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1707433:date=May 22 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sonic @ May 22 2009, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->cosmetic hats<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So stupid I like it.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1707435:date=May 22 2009, 02:59 PM:name=Retales)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Retales @ May 22 2009, 02:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But I agree that both ways are stupid, the achievement one is slightly less. What's going on at Valve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree. Now achievements can stand on their own. The unlock system still sucks, but it's a step in the right direction.
<!--quoteo(post=1707441:date=May 22 2009, 10:44 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ May 22 2009, 10:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree. Now achievements can stand on their own. The unlock system still sucks, but it's a step in the right direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's a step sideways. If they fix it so that you get more than one unlock in four hours, it'll definitely be a step in the right direction.
At least some of the Spy achievements seem to be pretty easy to get, unlike the Scouts ones, because almost all of them require having some of the unlocked items in use already. Or they're ridiculous in the first place.
Comments
Also: Ugh. Just had to have a free trial period at the exact same time as the updates, so the steam servers are overloaded. Brilliant!
Seriously.
Where is this?
Way to #### it up twice as bad, Valve. Now I have to grind no matter what; I can't even unlock it through the Steam Achievement Manager.
Actually, if they are easy to find, I won't be mad, but if I have to grind for my freaking unlocks I'm going to be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have absolutely no idea how the game picks what weapon to give you, a heavy in a game I just played got the Huntsman <i>twice</i>. It doesn't matter what class you play you'll just randomly get a weapon for another class you don't have. It might be that you get them by killing the class that they're from? but I have no idea. I got the Jarate as sniper in a game and another sniper on my team got the bow, we were both cursing at each other because we wanted each others guns.
It's just so ###### annoying how random it is. I just want the bow. please? ;_;
(also friendly pyros can set the arrows on fire, that is so ###### awesome)
Edit: It's completely ###### random, got the bonk 5 seconds into dustbowl in the setup time and the cloak and dagger just randomly when I died. Thanks valve for making experiencing the new content a ###### roll of the dice to give people weapons they already have and new weapons twice over where other people will see nothing for 4+ hours. I don't care about the spy weapons, I don't play spy.
Or in sight of them.
(or at least so the internet tells me, havent tested it yet)
(other things the internet tells me: "Also, the way you grind is leave your computer on on one server throughout the night."
spectate on bot server for a night, reciev unlocks)
Why don't they just let us have the items and be done with it?
Yeah you get the weapon unlocked permanently no matter what class you are when you get it.
Epic loot and an auction house game type?
Epic loot and an auction house game type?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's absolutely random (as random as a computer can be :V) I've heard people talk about how they've seen the same demoman get the razorback twice while dead, people getting ambasaddor/huntsman while afk in spec. It's just so dumb that the new unlocks are dependant on such a ###### system for dedicing who gets what and when.
Of course the fevered righteous defenders of Valve will holler about 'well just play tf2 as you would normally and have fun!' You know what isn't fun? Having this huge 8 day parade with the new unlocks and updates and then having a COMPUTER decide what you get. It could be a brand new weapon 3 seconds into your very first game of the free weekend or you could get 5 bonks in a row? Who cares if you could play for days on end and only get weapons you already have, that's just fun silly!
Letting achievements stand on their own is a good thing, but they have failed to address the grind issue. In fact, it seems they have made it worse by removing the player's control... Terrible game design--you should never remove player control. One of the main things that make people find a game enjoyable is the sense of control.
It does sound pretty f'ed up. Lots of glitches and stuff too. It makes me wonder if they even have QA people / playtest sessions at Valve Corp, or if they were just rushing to get it out for memorial day weekend (QA people should have caught the problems with the achivements, playtesters should have caught the inherent lack of fun with the new system).
Despite all this, I think the worst thing they have done here is to not actually explain the new system, or the logic behind it. As a reuslt, there is tons of chaos and confusion.
With all the great marketing going into the days leading up to the update, how do they screw up the actual update day so badly?
I guess I'll have to leave TF2 running to get all the kool loots and epix, and get back to playing in a few months.
Oh and I never ever do these but I'm that annoyed,
<a href="http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tf2unlock/" target="_blank">Bring Back TF2 Achievement Unlocks Online Petition</a>
Good ###### question. I share Tycho's sentiment, what moron at valve is convincing them that these are good ideas?
In light of how they ###### this up I'm going to uninstall TF2 again until a day when they either fix this ###### or I'm sufficiently bored.
"Make a player uninstall the game."
Let's hope they already started fixing it!
Here’s the full skinny from Robin Walker:
“As in everything else we do, we want to iterate, so this is really the first step towards our desired implementation. We also think we have bugs in the system as well, since we’re seeing some players not finding any items after a few hours of play, which is not at all how it’s tuned. We want unlockable drops to be a pretty regular occurrence for players, with the cosmetic hats being the rare finds.â€
Oh and I never ever do these but I'm that annoyed,
<a href="http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/tf2unlock/" target="_blank">Bring Back TF2 Achievement Unlocks Online Petition</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But can't you still get unlocks via achievements? Today I joined an empty 2fort server and got a few achievements for Scout (capturing without shooting and capturing three times in a row). I unlocked the first milestone and got the Force-A-Nature.
But I agree that both ways are stupid, the achievement one is slightly less. What's going on at Valve?
But I agree that both ways are stupid, the achievement one is slightly less. What's going on at Valve?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can still unlock all the guns via milestone achivements with the other classes, just that the random item giver might give you the same weapon you just unlocked.
So stupid I like it.
I disagree. Now achievements can stand on their own.
The unlock system still sucks, but it's a step in the right direction.
The unlock system still sucks, but it's a step in the right direction.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's a step sideways. If they fix it so that you get more than one unlock in four hours, it'll definitely be a step in the right direction.
At least some of the Spy achievements seem to be pretty easy to get, unlike the Scouts ones, because almost all of them require having some of the unlocked items in use already. Or they're ridiculous in the first place.