Lazy Developers! Come on
Earth
Join Date: 2009-07-23 Member: 68243Members
Join Date: 2009-07-23 Member: 68243Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Wish I knew this before I shelled out $40</div>Fist off let me say that NS is my all time favorite mod for HL. That being said I am extremely disappointed in the attitudes towards the new game I pre-ordered for $40! All I have been reading lately in dev updates is how they want to get away with doing as little work as possible push out the game. When has an attitude like that yielded any GOOD games? If you guys have a fan base willing to shell out tons of money for a game they have little details about, at least try to pretend like your interested in making it the best game possible!
Quotes like these piss me off:
"Working heavy armor back into the tech tree. We had been thinking about removing it for cost reasons but we keep hearing you want it!"
I understand you don't have a huge surplus of money, but COME ON! Taking out heavies shouldn't have even crossed your minds!
"Being a small team with limited resources, and because we are essentially minimalists, we are always thinking of ways we can get more out of less."
"It also means one less weapon to concept, model, texture, rig and animate!"
Like I said, I LOVE NS!! But you guys have way more money and resources than many mods who are excited to model, animate, and create new game elements FOR FREE, and in their SPARE TIME. So the least you can do with my $40 in your pockets, is PRETEND like you care about how many awesome features and elements you can't wait to put in the game, instead of whining about how you don't wanna have an element because you don't wanna do the work.
/rant
THANKS
Earth
Quotes like these piss me off:
"Working heavy armor back into the tech tree. We had been thinking about removing it for cost reasons but we keep hearing you want it!"
I understand you don't have a huge surplus of money, but COME ON! Taking out heavies shouldn't have even crossed your minds!
"Being a small team with limited resources, and because we are essentially minimalists, we are always thinking of ways we can get more out of less."
"It also means one less weapon to concept, model, texture, rig and animate!"
Like I said, I LOVE NS!! But you guys have way more money and resources than many mods who are excited to model, animate, and create new game elements FOR FREE, and in their SPARE TIME. So the least you can do with my $40 in your pockets, is PRETEND like you care about how many awesome features and elements you can't wait to put in the game, instead of whining about how you don't wanna have an element because you don't wanna do the work.
/rant
THANKS
Earth
Comments
Your opinion is plain wrong, though.
It isn't fair for you to compare NS2 to a mod, because well, people who for mods work for free. If I was developing a mod that I would eventually sell for money, no one in their right mind would work on it for free.
I am already sure that the developers are already underpaid because the full salaries that their positions and experience would offer would me much, much higher. It isn't a matter of being lazy. If they don't act very careful about how much art assets they order, NS2 will release early and unfinished because they will run out of resources.
Also. In this forum, we have user names, avatars and signatures to identify ourselves. Saying your name in the end of your post is painfully redundant.
On the other hand, what Devs say is true too. UWE is small team with small(?) budget, and you always cant get what you want.
50/50
~~Sickle~~
same here.
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I dont agree with OP as they are a small team with low budget, that is what i bought "Special Edition" so support em with there game.
But i can say am a tad worry about the "on less weapon, art, animation etc." thing. Then again new items can allways be added in patches.
Well well, we see what the Alpha brings.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When has an attitude like that yielded any GOOD games?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->All games are made on budgets. Practically every game will have something cut or slimmed down when the budget begins to run dry. If producers/devs didn't do this a lot of games would never get made (because of the money and the trees problem).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you guys have a fan base willing to shell out tons of money for a game they have little details about, at least try to pretend like your interested in making it the best game possible!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->They are making the best game possible... within their budget restrictions. It is impossible to create money from nowhere (unless you're Goldman Sachs).
Try to understand the costs involved with making a game and you will begin to see that UWE are not being lazy when they try to reduce their workload, they're being realistic. Their hands are mostly tied so they need to be inventive with their approach to making NS2.
I really don't think you realize the time and money it takes to create a game. This isn't just some mod, it's a complete game. They are making the engine and the tools.
They aren't being lazy, they are trying to do the most that they can with the budget they have. It's an extremely small company. If you're so unsatisfied with the developers work so far, why not just cancel your pre-order and move on.
He's totally right that it's a poor game design ethic to remove an essential NS gameplay mechanic like heavy armour because it could save some dollars. They're not suggesting removing it because they don't think it fits the gameplay. I can't believe NS supporters are defending the potential loss of heavy armour. And you guys think he's a troll? Not a single one of you actually addressed his legitimate concern (as equally stupid as it was to call the developers lazy).
On the flipside, it never occurred to me that Flayra would ever not put in a signature marine mechanic like heavy armour due to costs. I'd like to know more about the context of the quote.
He's totally right that it's a poor game design ethic to remove an essential NS gameplay mechanic like heavy armour because it could save some dollars. They're not suggesting removing it because they don't think it fits the gameplay. I can't believe NS supporters are defending the potential loss of heavy armour. And you guys think he's a troll? Not a single one of you actually addressed his legitimate concern (as equally stupid as it was to call the developers lazy).
On the flipside, it never occurred to me that Flayra would ever not put in a signature marine mechanic like heavy armour due to costs. I'd like to know more about the context of the quote.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:grey--><span style="color:grey"><!--/coloro-->I think about half the thread addressed his concern. The problem is that most of his post was "ugh, you're so lazy."<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
~~Sickle~~
But even on the NS2 front page is evidence of questionable gamedesign practice:
"It also means one less weapon to concept, model, texture, rig and animate!"
Yes, that is a perk, but it should not influence whether you lose the pistol/knife combo. The only factors deciding whether you go with one gameplay mechanic over another is gameplay. If costs are that high, cut back on the specular cubemaps, not the gameplay.
I didn't even know they were considering on removing heavies!!!
Imagine if they made that into a big news item on the front page! (it's funny that their'd be people that supported the decision xD)
<checks front news page>
O crap it was just posted 1 day ago on that twitter sidebar thing... "Working heavy armor back into the tech tree. We had been thinking about removing it for cost reasons but we keep hearing you want it! "
Hmm i must of missed the point where they asked the community if we still wanted heavies... and then missed the point where we replied that we did want it??? Is their another official community/forum they talk to?
It really looks like we're starting to see some hard truth from the devs... It looks to me like they projected just how far the preorder-money will take them (after buying all these new offices and computers) they are now prepared to shed feature after feature from NS2 just to have something on steam (so they can spend the next 3 years just debugging and adding features to that... and then their will be the expansion packs they will sell).
First the crazy taser thing (introduced as an excuse for not having to create a knife or pistol) which if not done cheaply... will require a custom zapping animation for each alien structure and lifeform as they wiggle to the involuntary muscle contractions. It'll be very buggy and take loads of testing to debug it... You'd think they could just use some free opensource model for a knife and magnum revolver and be done with it!
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As someone said... thank god this game has LUA because it looks to me like we're not getting a game so much as a Skeleton / Framework / SDK. Which is not necessarily bad but it's akin to buying HL2 (but no single player or multiplayer) and just playing free mods...
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Why don't the devs just have design competitions for people to make free models until they pick one for use in the game. That would cut costs and stimulate early modding-skills for when the game comes out.
He's keeping them in check? How exactly is he doing that? By posting on a forum that the developers barely have time to ready. Yep, that's really standing over them with the whip at the ready.
Yes that's true but this is a sequel to NS1... it has to actually look like a sequel :P
From re-reading their twitter thing on the heavies... THEY REMOVED HEAVIES!!! and are now considering bringing them back in...
Removed:
Onos digest (i hated that thing anyway lol)
Marine BunnyHop
Marine Knife
Marine Pistol
Marine Heavy
Marine Welder (? Most likely it's part of that universal sidearm + taser + super shield monstrositity)
ReAdded (maybe):
Marine Heavy
Why so much emphasis on the marines?... why not remove fades... no marine likes them anyway lol...
Did the devs just focus a bit to much on concept art for maps or something... or making the engine but not the content??
Read the twitter more closelier. They were going to replace heavies with exoskeletons. I wonder if that mean there are no more exoskeletons or if there will be three levels of tech available at T3?4.
<!--coloro:lawngreen--><span style="color:lawngreen"><!--/coloro-->
Thats exactly what I thougt.. They could always add more stuff when they get more resources :)
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
He's totally right that it's a poor game design ethic to remove an essential NS gameplay mechanic like heavy armour because it could save some dollars. They're not suggesting removing it because they don't think it fits the gameplay. I can't believe NS supporters are defending the potential loss of heavy armour. And you guys think he's a troll? Not a single one of you actually addressed his legitimate concern (as equally stupid as it was to call the developers lazy).
On the flipside, it never occurred to me that Flayra would ever not put in a signature marine mechanic like heavy armour due to costs. I'd like to know more about the context of the quote.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I remember correctly, there were concerns about Heavy Armor from the developers. I believe they said it didn't provide enough of a gameplay change to warrant the amount of developer resources it requires to implement. All the heavy armor did was increase the amount of armor a Marine had, which just encouraged the spamming of welders and marines walking in a blob. There is much more gameplay variation found in the jetpack, for example.
EDIT: Changed my entire post. I was way too mean.
Every single game, not to mention good or bad, that has come out has trimmed art due to cost, I guarantee you. Including mods, who get their art for free, but still have to contend with time. UWE is being honest about that subject because people expressed interest in hearing their behind the scene details, but I suppose if I were them, I'd rethink that, because of all the ignorant kids who have no conception of economics.
I developed small mods and I often had to cut things back due to technical issues (engine or scripting language does not cooperate) or just a lack of time to implement seemingly simple ideas.
I developed small mods and I often had to cut things back due to technical issues (engine or scripting language does not cooperate) or just a lack of time to implement seemingly simple ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously you're just a lazy developer too.[/sarcasm]
You have to optimize the mesh, aling textures, do the rigging properly and port it into the game.
Yes, I can make a kickass model in ZBrush in 5 minutes and show it to you, however, porting that model and getting it to work in the game takes time, so you better get to the drawing board and get a GOOD idea of what you are going to do or else you are going to waste 2+ weeks making a character/weapon/prop model just to realize it doesn´t works because of a design desition or engine limitation.
Now compromise is a part of every large endeavor, but should be one of the last considerations (get everything laid down and then compromise to make it work), not a design doctrine. I still trust the devs to make a great game, just like NS1, but I'd be lieing if I said I wasn't troubled by it.
From re-reading their twitter thing on the heavies... THEY REMOVED HEAVIES!!! and are now considering bringing them back in...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The philosophy being 1/3 old, 1/3 new and 1/3 updated.. or something similar is being employed I believe. So things come, things go.
If you don't think NS2 warrants the name NS2. I wish you'd stop making such assumptions until you've set foot in the game.
Um, what? Seriously? You think they're just making assets and tools and an engine for people to mess with? Geez man. It's gonna be a game. It won't be zomg UT3 millions of maps and weapons, but it won't just be some models running around.
And to be fair, I bought HL1 just to play NS.
the got enough now to finish the game EASILY in time.
u remember the video they posted from the guy who speaks
in front of 300 gamedevelopers? uwe is THE team out there
at the moment. now they go a HUGE push trough presale.
u can see it at the topic about the new office. NOW they got
the money for it.
and i can truelly say, i liked them more before they got the money :(
rip oldsqlcooluwe long life the moneymakers :D