Is the acid spit orange? I don't like the idea of the acid glowing unless it's tied to the hive's glow.
<!--quoteo(post=1725197:date=Aug 27 2009, 12:13 PM:name=scratchie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scratchie @ Aug 27 2009, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope this skill gets a little more advantages because if it can only be used with slopes its not that great of an asset but more a "hey look im gliding" skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's wrong with that? Why does it have to be useful in more situations? I'd gladly make that trade, because the Gorge sliding on a flat surface crushes suspense of disbelief. Also, I don't agree with Gorges being faster than Marines whenever they want.
First post in a long while, but the emails have been greatly received and the more reveals there are, the more and more I look forward to the new game. If you nail the lerk as well and you have these other classes, I will be a happy man, as the lerk was far and away my favourite class - the ability to swoop and glide was a revelation.
I'm not sure if it's been answered, but the main update says this is the fourth reveal, but I've only seen updates for Onos, Skulk and now Gorge, have I missed anything?
Regarding the belly slide, I think that sounds a brilliantly fun idea! But it may be a little unbelievable. Sure, we have to suspend our disbelief for this, but in terms of trying to keep the aliens as animal-like as possible, it won't be sliding down metal walk ways. I like the suggestion of the gorge having to spray the ground to make it slippy, could the healing spray not be given a dual role here - heals aliens in range, and when aimed at the ground, makes the floor slippy for both Gorge escape and reduced control for the marines? Alternatively, a roll manouvre would be less immersion breaking - fatty ducks his head and barrel rolls along his armour, but he can't do several rolls together because he's not too agile, making the roll more like a panic button rather than turning him into a skulk-gorge.
One last thing, can you really, really, really not find a game-balance way of including the strat chambers? While I admit the concept of an entire map cloaked is overpowered, the mechanic was extremely satisfying for the aliens. Could it appear in some highly restricted form? Say, the alien bacteria can only focus enough to provide one SC at any given time, so you have to choose carefully where to use it? Or alternatively it can only be used near hives. Or, rather than an SC, you could give the gorge heal an updgraded ability to cloak aliens (but not the gorge itself) for a small amount of time, say 20-30 seconds. That would increase the gorges support role, without decreasing his vulnerability, and without the overpowered SCs all over the map.
Just throwing those out there, flame at will :)
Really looking forward to the Lerk, and really great work on developing the new game!
<!--quoteo(post=1725229:date=Aug 27 2009, 11:30 AM:name=Jimmeny)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimmeny @ Aug 27 2009, 11:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One last thing, can you really, really, really not find a game-balance way of including the strat chambers? While I admit the concept of an entire map cloaked is overpowered, the mechanic was extremely satisfying for the aliens. Could it appear in some highly restricted form? Say, the alien bacteria can only focus enough to provide one SC at any given time, so you have to choose carefully where to use it? Or alternatively it can only be used near hives. Or, rather than an SC, you could give the gorge heal an updgraded ability to cloak aliens (but not the gorge itself) for a small amount of time, say 20-30 seconds. That would increase the gorges support role, without decreasing his vulnerability, and without the overpowered SCs all over the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, read the blog post again. They didn't say they're getting rid of strategic chambers entirely, just that the gorge wouldn't be the one placing them.
I think the gorge could slide on flat surfaces as well as sloped...just limit the distance that slide works, make it a bit faster than a sprint, and add a cool-down time after so it's not actually faster than running over a long distance. Would still be useful for getting around a corner and out of the line of fire quickly. Sliding down a slope would increase or remove altogether the need for a max slide distance, depending on the angle.
It could work for all areas or just infested zones (I can see arguments for each)
i like the new model of the george, but i have got the fear, that the george coould be too powerful with a spit that slows the marines down... i also don't like the idea of an alien commander that builds the upgrade-structures! you always need to have people that go goerge and build thing and you have to make this work as agreeable as possible. and that definitly includes the option of building MCs and SCs. and what made NS1 so unique was the diference between alien and marine gameplay - and that meant in case of responsability: marines: one man having the responsibility for the whole team; alien: the resp. is fairly devided to all the teamplayers. this concept worked perfectly! i would'nt change it. please think about the alien commander again (an decide against it ;-))
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I seriously doubt there is a "happy medium" to suicide bombing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, made me seriously chuckle.
And about the whole Gorge-roll... it would be pretty immersion-breaking if the Gorge itself was rolling about but from the player's perspective you're just gliding forward? A belly-slide may sound a bit silly but it's better in that perspective at least, also I personally think this 'ability' would be more fun if it now is more useful in slopes and maybe have to Spit before it's possible to glide if no DI is present.
Like Super Mario Sunshine, except this little plumber isn't fat. He's just a bit round around the tummy.
Also no to eating grenades... I just don't see the practical use with that since I assume that grenades will have such a short detonation time as well as explode on impact (I guess, since the speed of the Skulks really doesn't allow for realistic timers imo) that implementing such a VERY situational thing is just cluttering things up. Only equivalent that could actually be useful would be to convert or simply defuse mines, disable medical/ammo/catalyst-packs with the infestation-goo the Gorge can produce, but then again it would be a pretty powerful thing and probably balanced out of the game anyway.
I would be wary of implementing a slow-down effect with the spit, especially as a first hive ability. This could easily be one of the most annoying things that has to be contended with if it isn't done right. I would steer clear of movement-impairing solutions entirely really as limiting a player's freedom to move, although tactically interesting, is frustrating in practise.
I hope that a Gorge's strategical options don't feel diminished by the loss of structures he's able to build. This isn't a huge concern though as I see it as a good thing that gorge's will be more depended upon and relevant in combat. It is a drain on current gameplay that all but a few of the gorges exercise a wait-for-marines-or-stay-clear-entirely approach.
I fear that the 'hide' ability will provoke boring behaviour and, while it will undoubtedly work, will detract from the player-skill survivability. I can see it forcing marines to all but ignore the gorge in favour of dispatching skulks. This is a scenario that works but not one that is fun. Spit(slow) -> hide -> skulk rush. Fun tactically, but not practically!
The belly-slide, however, is something that I can see being a fun survival method that will influence gorge's use of surroundings and will add the required degree of skill needed that will make it mechanically fun to play.
I won't comment in detail on the artwork and how believable its abilities are because all i'm worried about is how it will actually <i>play</i>. That said, nothing seems glaringly out of place and i'm content with the design and how its actions are shown in the video.
La ChupacabraJoin Date: 2008-02-25Member: 63729Members
<!--quoteo(post=1725570:date=Aug 30 2009, 03:47 PM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Aug 30 2009, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I fear that the 'hide' ability will provoke boring behaviour and, while it will undoubtedly work, will detract from the player-skill survivability. I can see it forcing marines to all but ignore the gorge in favour of dispatching skulks. This is a scenario that works but not one that is fun. Spit(slow) -> hide -> skulk rush. Fun tactically, but not practically!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It will probably work like this, however, only until a marine with a grenade shows up.
<!--quoteo(post=1724092:date=Aug 21 2009, 09:29 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Aug 21 2009, 09:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just remembered what I forgot in my first post. When the Gorge goes into its Damage Soak mode, I think the camera should definitely go to the 3rd person placed just in front/behind of the Gorge facing its armor. This would allow the Gorge to see where the enemy fire is coming from and when a marine is getting close.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1725570:date=Aug 30 2009, 07:47 AM:name=Tweadle)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweadle @ Aug 30 2009, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I fear that the 'hide' ability will provoke boring behaviour and, while it will undoubtedly work, will detract from the player-skill survivability. I can see it forcing marines to all but ignore the gorge in favour of dispatching skulks. This is a scenario that works but not one that is fun. Spit(slow) -> hide -> skulk rush. Fun tactically, but not practically!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only does that scenario sound fun tactically, practically, and lactatically, but is very similar to something I've done many times as a gorge, which is bait while healspraying myself, then cackle madly when the marine wastes too much ammo on me to die to a skulk.
Anyway, I'll mention <i>again</i> that people are assuming the cower will give the gorge invulnerability, when I seriously doubt that is at all intended. It will most likely be more like umbra, a small, but helpful effect that may give the poor fatty enough time for help to arrive. Poor, poor fatty. UWE wants the gorge to be an engineer class. Engineers are up at the front lines, if they're doing their job right, so poor fat-fatty needs some utility there.
I don't see a problem with the gorge's abilities <b>as long as</b> the energy used for all the abilities is pooled together as it is now in NS1, not like the NS2 mockups with separate ones for each ability.
A tactical choice between damage soaking, spitting and heal spraying should always be there as it gives a good base level of skills to master for novices. It not only imposes a choice of which is best to use in which situation but also allows progressively more skilled players to become good at slide movement and positioning, letting them use their healing and spitting abilities more often.
With separate energy pools the marines will not realistically be able to make a choice to kill a gorge or a skulk as the gorge will always be able to damage soak unless under sustained fire. It's obviously better to shoot the skulk. As it is now, it can be a good decision to go after the gorge if you know they're low even if you're very likely to die.
I do hope the slide ability is usable all the time but on a short cooldown. I'm looking forward to playing as the new gorge as the combination of skills seems to offer a lot more potential depth than currently, which is something I was always disappointed with in NS1. Generally having a bit more survivability if you want to help fight marines and less game-hinging power on whether a gorge lives or dies is a good thing.
The gorge looks "ok" unlike the skulk which is truly amazing. Seems like aliens has become cute in NS2 rather than scary like in NS :P. Looking forward to the "commander logout button" reveal! :)
A note to the lead devs on Yomi: As I'm sure you're familiar, any "Yomi" situation is subjected to Nash Equilibrium. Because of this, any player inclined in game theory will quickly figure out exactly how many times they should attempt a certain move to achieve an optimal reward-to-cost ratio. If each move and it's counter are symmetrical in reward/cost, then the stable strategy is to simply play one at random.
Just be careful guys and make sure to playtest a "Yomi" system thoroughly; there is a fine line between predictive skill and a random spam fest (i.e. see Savage2's failed melee-block-counter system, aka RPS).
<!--quoteo(post=1731747:date=Oct 11 2009, 11:55 PM:name=Zoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zoe @ Oct 11 2009, 11:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone mentioned that a good counter move to the gorge damage soak would be a melee attack/rifle butt/shoulder tackle etc.?
Too long of a thread. x_x<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Counter? The gorge is already weak as it is.
<!--quoteo(post=1731747:date=Oct 11 2009, 06:55 PM:name=Zoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zoe @ Oct 11 2009, 06:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Has anyone mentioned that a good counter move to the gorge damage soak would be a melee attack/rifle butt/shoulder tackle etc.?
Too long of a thread. x_x<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea I mentioned it awhile back actually. Basically as he is in his defensive state, it would just be so simple to walk up to him, rifle butt him which stuns him and breaks him out of his ability and then shoot in the face multiple times.
I can't wait to find me the first gorge that does the crouch in fear technique, maybe they'll stay still long enough for me to play 'knife the gorgie'.
<!--quoteo(post=1727081:date=Sep 13 2009, 09:12 AM:name=Thrillseeker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thrillseeker @ Sep 13 2009, 09:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1727081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The gorge looks "ok" unlike the skulk which is truly amazing. Seems like aliens has become cute in NS2 rather than scary like in NS :P. Looking forward to the "commander logout button" reveal! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorges are supposed to be cute..... *expletive deleted* Don't diss gorges.
Comments
<!--quoteo(post=1725197:date=Aug 27 2009, 12:13 PM:name=scratchie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (scratchie @ Aug 27 2009, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope this skill gets a little more advantages because if it can only be used with slopes its not that great of an asset but more a "hey look im gliding" skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's wrong with that? Why does it have to be useful in more situations? I'd gladly make that trade, because the Gorge sliding on a flat surface crushes suspense of disbelief. Also, I don't agree with Gorges being faster than Marines whenever they want.
I'm not sure if it's been answered, but the main update says this is the fourth reveal, but I've only seen updates for Onos, Skulk and now Gorge, have I missed anything?
Regarding the belly slide, I think that sounds a brilliantly fun idea! But it may be a little unbelievable. Sure, we have to suspend our disbelief for this, but in terms of trying to keep the aliens as animal-like as possible, it won't be sliding down metal walk ways. I like the suggestion of the gorge having to spray the ground to make it slippy, could the healing spray not be given a dual role here - heals aliens in range, and when aimed at the ground, makes the floor slippy for both Gorge escape and reduced control for the marines? Alternatively, a roll manouvre would be less immersion breaking - fatty ducks his head and barrel rolls along his armour, but he can't do several rolls together because he's not too agile, making the roll more like a panic button rather than turning him into a skulk-gorge.
One last thing, can you really, really, really not find a game-balance way of including the strat chambers? While I admit the concept of an entire map cloaked is overpowered, the mechanic was extremely satisfying for the aliens. Could it appear in some highly restricted form? Say, the alien bacteria can only focus enough to provide one SC at any given time, so you have to choose carefully where to use it? Or alternatively it can only be used near hives. Or, rather than an SC, you could give the gorge heal an updgraded ability to cloak aliens (but not the gorge itself) for a small amount of time, say 20-30 seconds. That would increase the gorges support role, without decreasing his vulnerability, and without the overpowered SCs all over the map.
Just throwing those out there, flame at will :)
Really looking forward to the Lerk, and really great work on developing the new game!
Actually, read the blog post again. They didn't say they're getting rid of strategic chambers entirely, just that the gorge wouldn't be the one placing them.
It could work for all areas or just infested zones (I can see arguments for each)
i would play on them!
i also don't like the idea of an alien commander that builds the upgrade-structures! you always need to have people that go goerge and build thing and you have to make this work as agreeable as possible. and that definitly includes the option of building MCs and SCs. and what made NS1 so unique was the diference between alien and marine gameplay - and that meant in case of responsability: marines: one man having the responsibility for the whole team; alien: the resp. is fairly devided to all the teamplayers. this concept worked perfectly! i would'nt change it. please think about the alien commander again (an decide against it ;-))
Okay, made me seriously chuckle.
And about the whole Gorge-roll... it would be pretty immersion-breaking if the Gorge itself was rolling about but from the player's perspective you're just gliding forward?
A belly-slide may sound a bit silly but it's better in that perspective at least, also I personally think this 'ability' would be more fun if it now is more useful in slopes and maybe have to Spit before it's possible to glide if no DI is present.
Like Super Mario Sunshine, except this little plumber isn't fat. He's just a bit round around the tummy.
Also no to eating grenades... I just don't see the practical use with that since I assume that grenades will have such a short detonation time as well as explode on impact (I guess, since the speed of the Skulks really doesn't allow for realistic timers imo) that implementing such a VERY situational thing is just cluttering things up. Only equivalent that could actually be useful would be to convert or simply defuse mines, disable medical/ammo/catalyst-packs with the infestation-goo the Gorge can produce, but then again it would be a pretty powerful thing and probably balanced out of the game anyway.
I hope that a Gorge's strategical options don't feel diminished by the loss of structures he's able to build. This isn't a huge concern though as I see it as a good thing that gorge's will be more depended upon and relevant in combat. It is a drain on current gameplay that all but a few of the gorges exercise a wait-for-marines-or-stay-clear-entirely approach.
I fear that the 'hide' ability will provoke boring behaviour and, while it will undoubtedly work, will detract from the player-skill survivability. I can see it forcing marines to all but ignore the gorge in favour of dispatching skulks. This is a scenario that works but not one that is fun. Spit(slow) -> hide -> skulk rush. Fun tactically, but not practically!
The belly-slide, however, is something that I can see being a fun survival method that will influence gorge's use of surroundings and will add the required degree of skill needed that will make it mechanically fun to play.
I won't comment in detail on the artwork and how believable its abilities are because all i'm worried about is how it will actually <i>play</i>. That said, nothing seems glaringly out of place and i'm content with the design and how its actions are shown in the video.
It will probably work like this, however, only until a marine with a grenade shows up.
and now, how about... LERK TIME! :)
^^
When the Gorge goes into its Damage Soak mode, I think the camera should definitely go to the 3rd person placed just in front/behind of the Gorge facing its armor. This would allow the Gorge to see where the enemy fire is coming from and when a marine is getting close.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
totally awesome.
Not only does that scenario sound fun tactically, practically, and lactatically, but is very similar to something I've done many times as a gorge, which is bait while healspraying myself, then cackle madly when the marine wastes too much ammo on me to die to a skulk.
Anyway, I'll mention <i>again</i> that people are assuming the cower will give the gorge invulnerability, when I seriously doubt that is at all intended. It will most likely be more like umbra, a small, but helpful effect that may give the poor fatty enough time for help to arrive. Poor, poor fatty. UWE wants the gorge to be an engineer class. Engineers are up at the front lines, if they're doing their job right, so poor fat-fatty needs some utility there.
fat.
A tactical choice between damage soaking, spitting and heal spraying should always be there as it gives a good base level of skills to master for novices. It not only imposes a choice of which is best to use in which situation but also allows progressively more skilled players to become good at slide movement and positioning, letting them use their healing and spitting abilities more often.
With separate energy pools the marines will not realistically be able to make a choice to kill a gorge or a skulk as the gorge will always be able to damage soak unless under sustained fire. It's obviously better to shoot the skulk. As it is now, it can be a good decision to go after the gorge if you know they're low even if you're very likely to die.
I do hope the slide ability is usable all the time but on a short cooldown. I'm looking forward to playing as the new gorge as the combination of skills seems to offer a lot more potential depth than currently, which is something I was always disappointed with in NS1. Generally having a bit more survivability if you want to help fight marines and less game-hinging power on whether a gorge lives or dies is a good thing.
As I'm sure you're familiar, any "Yomi" situation is subjected to Nash Equilibrium. Because of this, any player inclined in game theory will quickly figure out exactly how many times they should attempt a certain move to achieve an optimal reward-to-cost ratio. If each move and it's counter are symmetrical in reward/cost, then the stable strategy is to simply play one at random.
Just be careful guys and make sure to playtest a "Yomi" system thoroughly; there is a fine line between predictive skill and a random spam fest (i.e. see Savage2's failed melee-block-counter system, aka RPS).
Too long of a thread. x_x
Too long of a thread. x_x<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Counter? The gorge is already weak as it is.
Too long of a thread. x_x<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea I mentioned it awhile back actually. Basically as he is in his defensive state, it would just be so simple to walk up to him, rifle butt him which stuns him and breaks him out of his ability and then shoot in the face multiple times.
Gorges are supposed to be cute..... *expletive deleted* Don't diss gorges.