I can guarantee that the pistol...
Jimyd
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
<div class="IPBDescription">This is a PSA.</div>...will not be what you were expecting, and wish they would have went with the TAZER.
Why?
For balance reasons, it is not going to be the 100% accuracy sniper rifle like it was from NS1. It will probably have the same cone of fire(CoF) as the Light Machine Gun(LMG), or a barely smaller CoF (like a 10% increased accuracy).
I am sure it is going to be that bland. Even if the pistol gets a secondary pistol-whip manuver, the LMG will already have that when not upgraded.
*****KNIFE*****
Counter Strike knife, fast 15 HP slashes and 50 HP slow stabs.
*****KNIFE*****
Not to doubt the DEVs creativity, but if they are really pushing for a Fall or early Winter release; they won't be continually going back and scrapping whole ideas completely.
(If you could not tell, I was on the PRO side of the TAZER.)
Why?
For balance reasons, it is not going to be the 100% accuracy sniper rifle like it was from NS1. It will probably have the same cone of fire(CoF) as the Light Machine Gun(LMG), or a barely smaller CoF (like a 10% increased accuracy).
I am sure it is going to be that bland. Even if the pistol gets a secondary pistol-whip manuver, the LMG will already have that when not upgraded.
*****KNIFE*****
Counter Strike knife, fast 15 HP slashes and 50 HP slow stabs.
*****KNIFE*****
Not to doubt the DEVs creativity, but if they are really pushing for a Fall or early Winter release; they won't be continually going back and scrapping whole ideas completely.
(If you could not tell, I was on the PRO side of the TAZER.)
Comments
Knives in games when they are considered as "a backup weapon", are always pointless to use.
And I don't think we want to see Marines pulling out a Knife everytime they encounter a Skulk, because it was made way more powerful than the LMG in regards to damage per second(DPS).
Not really, but you know what I said is most likely true.
Look at Starcraft or even Starcraft 2. Every unit, even the most basic, have upgrades available that allow that unit to compete late in the game. Even the most high-tiered units, like the <a href="http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/immortal" target="_blank">Immortal</a>, are easily countered by basic units like the Zergling.
Saying "the pistol should be / will be trash" shows that someone doesn't understand or doesn't want to follow the above way of thinking. That's fine, but the way of thinking mentioned above is how you create a game that will last and have skill/depth.
That's exactly what I was going to say... odd.
I always thought the phrase "QQ" was designed as a signal to let others know to avoid that person in a serious conversation. Such an inane combination of two letters.
Huh? You aren't talking about the NS1 knife here, for sure. Historically, the knife was pulled out specifically because it had infinite ammo, and presumably that will be the driving force to pull it out in NS2 as well. Your infinite ammo weapon should always be somewhat less effective than your limited-ammo weapons, but that doesn't make it useless -- its what you pull out when you don't have time to reload, or you run out of ammo completely.
In NS1 the knife did about 50% of the dps of the LMG, which put it in a pretty balanced spot as far as I was concerned. Much less and you'd just rather reload instead, and much more and there's too little penalty for running out of ammo. So I'm expecting the knife to stay pretty close to its old stats.
I see many uses with just a good old gun, especially since its a pretty established weapon just in NS1 for many reasons as well as it made sense for a down-to-earth marine that you could expect in a world where sci-fi is a bit more grungy and realistic.
According to me at least, replacing the gun with a electrified team-effort thing that worked at long range just seemed... odd to me. It's just too fancy, and seeing blue flashes in a room as two marines sit in a corner and tasing a OC and Gorge from afar...
However, I think they can really go for a pretty decent side-arm replacement for a knife, since THAT is a piece of weaponry that is really outdated.
Right there I could see a taser work, but it wouldn't be linking shots, have that long distance or in general try too much... it would just be a very useful sidearm for destroying buildings or last-resort when encountering an alien but with a twist compared to what a knife can do. I'm sure the taser can make a revisit in that manner, or another innovative weapon.
Again, I personally respect this decision and they appearently talked about it inside the team so I think the decision was well made if they actually seemed to agree with the community.
Isn't that what got rid of the taser?
Look at Starcraft or even Starcraft 2. Every unit, even the most basic, have upgrades available that allow that unit to compete late in the game. Even the most high-tiered units, like the <a href="http://www.sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/immortal" target="_blank">Immortal</a>, are easily countered by basic units like the Zergling.
Saying "the pistol should be / will be trash" shows that someone doesn't understand or doesn't want to follow the above way of thinking. That's fine, but the way of thinking mentioned above is how you create a game that will last and have skill/depth.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes i agree. Why even have the weapon if it's going to be some pointless pos. It would all be for nothing... a waste of time to model/draw-up-concept-art/debug/balance...
I believe people hated the taser because it embodied those ideals. A pointless pos weapon for the sake of having another pointless pos weapon just to say... "o look the marines are armed to the teeth... lets nerf all their guns".
Pistols are something more powerful then a rifle (in close quarters against soft fleshy targets like people and aliens, including xenomorphs apparently), and also possessing great inaccuracy (but good enough to hit a human sized target in the chest). All of this is possible at a distance of 50yards (some higher power hunting pistols can go out to 100+ yards...). Because of this, their is no doubt a marine should be able to drop a fade with one pistol mag if the fade is about 10ft away... no doubt at all. Just hit it about 5 times and watch it bleed out. (unless of course the aliens are so armored that pistols are pointless... in which case why do we need to carry a pistol... i'd rather have more magazines of hi-power rifle bullets or shotgun shells or hand-grenades or launchable grenades or just plain explosives).
Now in NS1 we can assume that because it was first contact that the marines had no idea what would work and so they did what the colonial marines did and brought smgs to fight in office buildings.
But now it's NS2... we've already seen most of the aliens and they all have bone-armor... i certainly hope the marines are packing big-game rifles and monster revolvers because we have no other choice. I'll go on to say we should start out with HMGs and work our way up the tech tree from there. Aliens can start out as fades... i don't mind... i just rather the game play out at the high level of jps and HAs and loads of explosions instead of staying in the stagnant no-upgrades-no-hmgs-no-gls-no-mines-nothing mode that lasts 90% of the time in a classic NS map.
Perhaps this is why CO is so popular over NS. People want to get to that high-point of always having that HMG or SHOTGUN and always spawning with that HEAVY or JP... It's just more fun then the alternative which is aliens always have enough res to fade or onos all the time and marines only have their armslab. Imagine if in NS you could pick up whatever weaponry or tech you like and go out of base regardless of resources. Where the lmg actually has a purpose in the end-game other then being the pity-weapon just to say you have a primary weapon.
The game is quite well balanced, perhaps you should consider trying out other servers.
also, I expect a combined weapon, pistol with bayonet <a href="http://www.stupidedia.org/images/thumb/a/a1/Bajonett_pistole.jpg/250px-Bajonett_pistole.jpg" target="_blank">[1]</a> <a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/bajonett%20pistole/Slayerinprogress/blade2-1.jpg" target="_blank">[2]</a>
Early Game Skulks:
Pistol > LMG
*****
Doesn't even make sense to make that mistake in NS2.
If you don't believe that statement is true, you obviously could not aim well.
(Plus if you factor in the "art" of the Kharaa models in NS2, plenty of armor everywhere.)
(Oh and, a Knife is just a redundant "LOL" infinite ammo backup weapon in most FPS games. I don't expect much with the turnabout decision that has been made.)
At least this game is Sci-Fi, and could pull it off lore wise.
(My expression = BLAHHH.) =(
Early Game Skulks:
Pistol > LMG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no reasonable scenario where this is true even when you're playing against bad skulks. The pistol excels only at long distances (when you shouldn't even see good skulks much) and "whipping" an alien that pokes out of a vent or corner. If you're fighting 5 newbie skulks that run straight at you, pistol is useful for prolonging the period before you have to reload your LMG, but it's harder to use than the LMG even for people that are good at the game. That's why you see 50 LMG kills and only one or two pistol kills.
If UWE wants to keep NS1 pistol, but thinks it's too powerful, a high ROF cap and/or a slight clip size reduction (8 or 9?) would provide all the needed effect.
At least this game is Sci-Fi, and could pull it off lore wise.
(My expression = BLAHHH.) =(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The "its been done" argument more often than not leads to the "its been done because its awesome" conclusion.
If UWE wants to keep NS1 pistol, but thinks it's too powerful, a high ROF cap and/or a slight clip size reduction (8 or 9?) would provide all the needed effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope this is how it goes. TBH the 10 clip size now doesn't seem OP to me.
Early Game Skulks:
Pistol > LMG
*****
Doesn't even make sense to make that mistake in NS2.
If you don't believe that statement is true, you obviously could not aim well.
(Plus if you factor in the "art" of the Kharaa models in NS2, plenty of armor everywhere.)
(Oh and, a Knife is just a redundant "LOL" infinite ammo backup weapon in most FPS games. I don't expect much with the turnabout decision that has been made.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People that don't know the pistol does the same points of damage as the hmg? Well... this information is as accurate as in-game-chat informations goes... but once someone told us that the pistol and hmg do 20 damage or something... the lmg is the weakest gun in the game.
It is realistic to be that powerful... but accuracy should not be laser perfect!!!... i want the ns2 pistol to be powerful and accurate enough at CQB and inaccurate+weaker at long distance... it should excel in close quarters and do a better job then anything that shoots a skinnier, lighter, rifle bullet. The accuracy should be like a handheld NS1 shotgun that only shoots one pellet out... just like you see that in game.
So by this thinking, the shotgun and pistol should be the top weapons for 99% of all NS2 battles. Hmgs would be useful only in epic-sized battles in gigantic jetpack rooms against 10 onoses and 20 fades + a complement of healing gorges... but only because of the ease of hosing out 200+ uninterrupted bullets at a longer range. (so the hmg should be close to laser accurate).
The LMG... useless?? very close to useless?? sort of like the gun you issue to people that won't be likely to encounter the enemy... like base-monkeys.
To make the LMG useful, we need it to be a SMG that fires PISTOL bullets at HIGHER-ACCURACY...(longer range accuracy... more powerful then pistol in CQB...more powerful then pistol at longer distance)... it can even use the same ammunition as the pistol. In this case the LMG would be useful in close and medium range distance... It would be as powerful as the HMG is now in NS1. The NS2-HMG would need to be more powerful then that (or just more armor piercing)... but all it needs to be is more accurate and more powerful at longer distance.
I don't want to see the LMG and Pistol and Shotgun and Mine and Knife become useless as the alien lifeforms get fatter. Instead i'd rather see the right tool for the job where their would be times when you want to use a LMG even towards the end of a game involving onoses and fades...
That's how it is in Bad Company essentially... their are many guns... some are harder to use but still are capable... some get the job done just the same as 3 others, but their's one small thing about a particular weapon that makes you want to pull it off the rack. (example: you can use the bolt action barrett in many ways... in close quarters no-scoping-super-shotgun-mode, or at any range... or maybe you want the m24 for the faster reload (and i suspect the bullet is faster then the barrett in game... ya the bullets take time to hit... you got to lead them in that game)... or that other weird gun because it's silenced... or maybe the unsilenced version of the same gun...)
To sum it all up... all guns should do the same damage essentially (each shotgun pellet being the same as a hmg bullet). The only difference between guns is the various delays in reloading them and the accuracy and damage at various distances. Also is it semi-auto or pump or full-auto.... and how deep is that magazine. I think this would work. The functionality of the armslab giving increased damage or whatever (but their should be more levels of damage upgrades... like damage 0-10). Perhaps over time the armslab sucks up a continual amount of resources and incrementally boosts the armor and damage past the standard NS1-damage-3
It is realistic to be that powerful... but accuracy should not be laser perfect!!!... i want the ns2 pistol to be powerful and accurate enough at CQB and inaccurate+weaker at long distance... it should excel in close quarters and do a better job then anything that shoots a skinnier, lighter, rifle bullet. The accuracy should be like a handheld NS1 shotgun that only shoots one pellet out... just like you see that in game.
So by this thinking, the shotgun and pistol should be the top weapons for 99% of all NS2 battles. Hmgs would be useful only in epic-sized battles in gigantic jetpack rooms against 10 onoses and 20 fades + a complement of healing gorges... but only because of the ease of hosing out 200+ uninterrupted bullets at a longer range. (so the hmg should be close to laser accurate).
The LMG... useless?? very close to useless?? sort of like the gun you issue to people that won't be likely to encounter the enemy... like base-monkeys.
To make the LMG useful, we need it to be a SMG that fires PISTOL bullets at HIGHER-ACCURACY...(longer range accuracy... more powerful then pistol in CQB...more powerful then pistol at longer distance)... it can even use the same ammunition as the pistol. In this case the LMG would be useful in close and medium range distance... It would be as powerful as the HMG is now in NS1. The NS2-HMG would need to be more powerful then that (or just more armor piercing)... but all it needs to be is more accurate and more powerful at longer distance.
I don't want to see the LMG and Pistol and Shotgun and Mine and Knife become useless as the alien lifeforms get fatter. Instead i'd rather see the right tool for the job where their would be times when you want to use a LMG even towards the end of a game involving onoses and fades...
That's how it is in Bad Company essentially... their are many guns... some are harder to use but still are capable... some get the job done just the same as 3 others, but their's one small thing about a particular weapon that makes you want to pull it off the rack. (example: you can use the bolt action barrett in many ways... in close quarters no-scoping-super-shotgun-mode, or at any range... or maybe you want the m24 for the faster reload (and i suspect the bullet is faster then the barrett in game... ya the bullets take time to hit... you got to lead them in that game)... or that other weird gun because it's silenced... or maybe the unsilenced version of the same gun...)
To sum it all up... all guns should do the same damage essentially (each shotgun pellet being the same as a hmg bullet). The only difference between guns is the various delays in reloading them and the accuracy and damage at various distances. Also is it semi-auto or pump or full-auto.... and how deep is that magazine. I think this would work. The functionality of the armslab giving increased damage or whatever (but their should be more levels of damage upgrades... like damage 0-10). Perhaps over time the armslab sucks up a continual amount of resources and incrementally boosts the armor and damage past the standard NS1-damage-3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a start, but then that just makes it like the Desert Eagle from Counter-Strike, but with better accuracy.
I much rather see something like this: <a href="http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-weapons-7.htm" target="_blank">http://www.planetside-universe.com/p-weapons-7.htm</a>
Scatter Pistol (New Conglomerate)
Weapon Type:
Primary Mode:
Secodary Mode:
Ammunition:
Damage:
Refire Rate:
Range / Zoom:
Certification: Pistol
Single Blast
Not Applicable
8 / Shotgun Shell, Standard/Armor Piercing
High
Medium
Short / 2x
Standard
Essentially a handheld shotgun pistol, the MAG-Scatter Pistol is primarily designed for close quarters combat. Due to its short barrel design, the Scatter Pistol loses effectiveness beyond a relatively close range.
*****
That could make the pistol new and fresh, while still being effective at close range only in a backup situation. (Where it only should be.)
Or, alternatively. A stab causes (low-mediun) damage AND knockback, primary function; Secondary, a full on stab, that causes the above effect and causes the target to bleed for 2-10 hp for 3-5 sec.
Bleeding then allows you to track where said creature has run off to because of the staining tracks it has left behind.
Can you imagine an onos running around with a bucket of knives sticking out of it? (Assuming that once bleed effect is over, knife remains until it becomes a corpse, which then it can be either looted for used knives or just fades away taking used knives with)
---------------------------------------------
Oh, and don't put ANYTHING from Counterstrike in NS2. This isn't CS, and that's the main reason I dumped CS for NS.
If what you said was true, that the pistol was indeed a better primary weapon than the LMG, then why doesn't this add up in my mind as to how I imagine normal ns rounds would go if the lmg was removed? The entire early game would play out incredibly different if the marines only had the theoretical capacity to kill two skulks each, and the realistical ability to kill only one!
Numbers do lie sometimes if you're unable to interpret them correctly.
Knives in games when they are considered as "a backup weapon", are always pointless to use.
And I don't think we want to see Marines pulling out a Knife everytime they encounter a Skulk, because it was made way more powerful than the LMG in regards to damage per second(DPS).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha this is fun. The point of the "back-up" weapon is last resort. While maybe having a nuke as your ace in the hole might have been more entertaining, I think the adrenaline rush of hearing that infamous click at the end of your lmg, followed by the click click of your pistol when you've only fired 3 rounds is the best part of the game.
Fade coming at you, you just burst a full lmg clip into him, switch to your pistol, click. All right buddy. Knife time. Bring it.
Then the HMGer with level 10 UA completely destroys that fade, the onos next to him, and the two skulks trying to take advantage of the situation. You swallow your sorrow and reload. Chomp, dead. Good times...
but we are growing up in a konservative world, so what did you expect?
that ppl want things who changes the game to an point where they have
to learn and accept new things?
the dont think far enough tho encounter the new abilitys and the fun it could make... :(