<!--quoteo(post=1724893:date=Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But... what you're saying just isn't true. Yes the pistol does 20 damage per shot and the LMG 10, but the limited clip size makes it too risky to use. Miss one bullet and you'll have no chance to take down the second skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... if you turn on the fast-switch-of-weapons option, then you can flip back and forth between weapons at the blink of an eye. If you killed the first skulk with the pistol, then you have a better chance (with a full loaded lmg) to take out the second... That's way more of a chance then if you just used the lmg exclusively.
Often times skulk also think your primary weapon is empty when they start hearing pistol fire... So you can use the pistol to lure them out and switch to the loaded lmg.
<!--quoteo(post=1724893:date=Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The LMG might do less damage per second for the first second but it holds two huge advantages over the pistol. First, being attacked by more than one doesn't equal an automatic death, you theoretically have enough bullets to kill five skulks (realistically somewhere around three). Second, and this ties into the first point, you have a larger marigin of error. Not the least because of the LMG actually being an automatic weapon making it easier to track fast moving targets than with the pistol which you have to reset periodically.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Realistically (assuming no armslab upgrades), you'd be lucky to get 1.5 skulks. Then factoring in lag and the fact the enemy is bouncing off the walls... and then their's that "choke" thing... and just how many of the bullets you fire is the server allowing to hit the enemy. The odds are you can only kill 1.5 skulks still! lol... mostly just 1 per reload. (it helps if their's 4 marines with you all spraying in the same direction).
<!--quoteo(post=1724893:date=Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If what you said was true, that the pistol was indeed a better primary weapon than the LMG, then why doesn't this add up in my mind as to how I imagine normal ns rounds would go if the lmg was removed? The entire early game would play out incredibly different if the marines only had the theoretical capacity to kill two skulks each, and the realistical ability to kill only one!
Numbers do lie sometimes if you're unable to interpret them correctly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ugh... hmm... yep "killing" 2 but only realistically killing 1, at a time is the average now. If they removed the lmg, and just handed out hmgs when you spawn... which eventually (through armslab upgrades) reached NS1-Hmgs... ya that would work. Having to pay all this money in res per gun and armor... it's the micro-management that kills the marines. Or actually the masochist-alien-sympathist map-makers that think 5-7 res nodes is enough (when each team is lucky to control half of those).
So in short, it's the basic weaponry everyone spawns with that needs to be upgraded over time... imagine this... the com never drops guns... and marines don't need to "buy" personal guns with personal res... instead they have a choice when they spawn... if the armslab is at level=blah then the choice of weaponry is blah,blah,blah... and eventually towards the middle of the game, you have a choice of hmgs + gls (2 weapons) when you spawn.
Here's how it will work (since the respawning, from watching the IP-reveal-movie, will take time... then why not use that time for making these loadout choices... which can be changed at the nearest NS2-armory [which make them more useful beyond just healing you in the field]):
No armslab, then you are allowed standard weapons (lmg or shotgun, knife).
Armslab dmg + 1, then you are allowed (pistol, mines or grenades, welder, lmg or shotgun, knife)
Armslab dmg + 2, then you are allowed (pistol, mines or grenades, welder, lmg or shotgun or hmg or gl, knife) [mines or grenades are now re-fillable, from this level and up, at the armory]
Armslab dmg + 3, then you are allowed (pistol, mines, grenades, welder, (choice of any 2 of the following) { lmg, shotgun, hmg, gl}, knife)
Hmm interesting... i just realized this works even better... instead of the Armslab being used for amplifying the damage levels of all weapons (which barely made a differance since a 0-dmg hmg is still infinitely better then a 3-dmg lmg), it would now allow for greater flexibility on the battlefield with the respective weapons having a FIXED damage capability. This would mean that the guns must be balanced so they are effective both at the start and end of a round (i already said how to do this, without putzing with the damages, by just adjusting the damage-fall-off-with-distance of the various guns and the rates of fire and magazine sizes)... so you might just pick a lmg because you want a faster shooting+reloading smg-type-gun instead of the heavier slower-carrying-aiming-reloading hmg.
As usual my jaw just drops whenever focusedwolf posts.
It seems all your posts revolve around the (not accurate) fact that the marines are underpowered and the game is geared towards aliens. From this I draw the conclusion that you suck at this game.
I second that emotion.... Bullet lag time in Bad Company? How is that relevant to NS2?
This game needs to be fun, its set in space with aliens and marines. Why don't the marines just nuke the space base, or use the nanites to destroy everything... Exactly because that would be boring. I like the guns in NS, shotguns are more useful in most of the tight corridor situations but they become useless later in game when the aliens find it easier to get in your face. HMG already has a far longer reload time to compensate for the extra power whilst still making it extremely useful.
I don't want NS2 to be a hyper realistic shooter, I like realism but not to the extent that it is boring, go play counterstrike.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--quoteo(post=1725004:date=Aug 25 2009, 08:21 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 25 2009, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725004"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... if you turn on the fast-switch-of-weapons option, then you can flip back and forth between weapons at the blink of an eye. If you killed the first skulk with the pistol, then you have a better chance (with a full loaded lmg) to take out the second... That's way more of a chance then if you just used the lmg exclusively.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not true. It takes 0.4 seconds to draw the LMG. You could've fired 7 LMG bullets in that time.
Also keep in mind that while the NS1 Pistol may deal twice as much damage per bullet as the NS1 LMG, the max firerate of the pistol (yes, there is a max rate) is only about half the max firerate of the LMG -- about 8 bullets per second compared to 16. So the Pistol doesn't really do more damage per second than the LMG. You just THINK it does when you are accurate enough to hit all 8 of those pistol bullets, while missing half of your LMG bullets due to spread.
I would say more, but really, why bother? So instead I'm just going to second (third?) Dead-Inside's comment and save myself the trouble.
Spawn. Grab 50 extra LMG ammo. Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP. Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game. (Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)
This is even more easier since Skulks are super-slow as of the latest patch (GG bunnyhop/movement speed change).
Also emptying your Pistol early gets rid of that extra weight.
*****ALSO*****
Most times I have played, as Marine Commander and a Field Marine, Weapon Upgrades 1 is usually the first thing you always get within the first 2 minutes of the game. It just makes the Pistol that much more powerful.
*****ALSO*****
So yeah, I don't really want to see the Sniper Pistol make a comeback in NS2, even though how fun it might be.
<!--quoteo(post=1724705:date=Aug 23 2009, 03:08 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Aug 23 2009, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no reasonable scenario where this is true even when you're playing against bad skulks. The pistol excels only at long distances (when you shouldn't even see good skulks much) and "whipping" an alien that pokes out of a vent or corner. If you're fighting 5 newbie skulks that run straight at you, pistol is useful for prolonging the period before you have to reload your LMG, <b>but it's harder to use than the LMG even for people that are good at the game</b>. That's why you see 50 LMG kills and only one or two pistol kills.
If UWE wants to keep NS1 pistol, but thinks it's too powerful, a high ROF cap and/or a slight clip size reduction (8 or 9?) would provide all the needed effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They ain't good then. The Pistol literally has almost a perfect Cone of Fire; it's basically point and click.
One being a magnum revolver with near sniper like accuracy and high power against fades and oni but slower reload time and heavy recoil + delay between shots. Capacity = 5 shots.
And the other being more like standard defensive handguns... giant magazine... low recoil... good damage if you can get close enough... fairly crappy accuracy (you have to be "close" to mostly hit what your shooting at)
<!--quoteo(post=1725071:date=Aug 26 2009, 02:32 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Aug 26 2009, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Usually whenever I use to play, it was:
Spawn. Grab 50 extra LMG ammo. Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP. Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game. (Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any scenario where 4/5 skulks attack you without killing you, and where you can land every bullet for the kills you stated is not a "reasonable scenario". If this was actually true, how would the aliens survive a rush of 5 marines to the hive? (in a 6v6, but works up to a 6v25, "unless the marines are bad")
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1725071:date=Aug 26 2009, 09:32 AM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Aug 26 2009, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They ain't good then. The Pistol literally has almost a perfect Cone of Fire; it's basically point and click.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've played with some good players over the years(in pubs and scrims) and watched competitive matches, but I haven't seen anyone playing seriously with this style. I myself have used it occasionally on combat servers to practice aim, but never in classic games.
Do you still play NS? If so, come play on the <GUD> server tonight. If you can get better than 1:1 there using this style I will consider that the pistol may be OP. As it stands I think you're making this up.
<!--quoteo(post=1725088:date=Aug 26 2009, 01:10 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Aug 26 2009, 01:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any scenario where 4/5 skulks attack you without killing you, and where you can land every bullet for the kills you stated is not a "reasonable scenario". If this was actually true, how would the aliens survive a rush of 5 marines to the hive? (in a 6v6, but works up to a 6v25, "unless the marines are bad")<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally think he is just bragging or doing the kill count equivalent of "dropping names".
Tell you what focused wolf that isn't a bad idea having two different kinds of pistols, unfortunately I don't think its worth the time and I'm sure one playstyle will be more effective than the other in the long run...
<!--quoteo(post=1725092:date=Aug 26 2009, 09:58 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 26 2009, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally think he is just bragging or doing the kill count equivalent of "<b>dropping names</b>".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I be droppin' Skulks like dropping cream cheese on a bagel.
And sorry locallyunscene, my newer comp doesn't like orginal Half-Life and its mods. It is unfortunate. =(
*****
The reason you don't see 5 Marines Hive Rush versus 6 Skulks, or 5 Skulks and 1 Gorge, are these factors:
1) Line of Sight Friendly Fire. 2) Resource Towers. (Pure Hive rushing instantly at the start of the game is like 4-Pooling as Zerg in Starcraft.) 3) Enemy Resource Towers. (See #2.) 4) No Tech. If there is no Base ###### in the early start, you are asking to lose. (Someones gotta build the important stuff.) 5) If you fail, you basically have made the Aliens that much closer to Fades. 6) (This is the important one!) Lack of individual and team skill. (Yup I said it again.)
Is everyone forgetting that the Marine Commander can keep a Field Marine practically invulnerable(slight exaggeration), with Med Packs.
<!--quoteo(post=1725085:date=Aug 26 2009, 08:13 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 26 2009, 08:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Perhaps we should add 2 pistols to NS2.
One being a magnum revolver with near sniper like accuracy and high power against fades and oni but slower reload time and heavy recoil + delay between shots. Capacity = 5 shots.
And the other being more like standard defensive handguns... giant magazine... low recoil... good damage if you can get close enough... fairly crappy accuracy (you have to be "close" to mostly hit what your shooting at)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would support this, if we must have the Pistol+Knife combo yet again.
Currently, the NS1 Pistol is like both the pistols FocusedWolf described rolled into one, with only the PROs attached to it.
<!--quoteo(post=1725136:date=Aug 27 2009, 12:22 AM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Aug 27 2009, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I be droppin' Skulks like dropping cream cheese on a bagel.
And sorry locallyunscene, my newer comp doesn't like orginal Half-Life and its mods. It is unfortunate. =(
*****
The reason you don't see 5 Marines Hive Rush versus 6 Skulks, or 5 Skulks and 1 Gorge, are these factors:
1) Line of Sight Friendly Fire. 2) Resource Towers. (Pure Hive rushing instantly at the start of the game is like 4-Pooling as Zerg in Starcraft.) 3) Enemy Resource Towers. (See #2.) 4) No Tech. If there is no Base ###### in the early start, you are asking to lose. (Someones gotta build the important stuff.) 5) If you fail, you basically have made the Aliens that much closer to Fades. 6) (This is the important one!) Lack of individual and team skill. (Yup I said it again.)
Is everyone forgetting that the Marine Commander can keep a Field Marine practically invulnerable(slight exaggeration), with Med Packs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well not quite, according to your logic, two marines can take care of all the skulks, leaving the other three as extra firepower, spawncampers, res monkeys, hive knifers, whatever suits your boat while your opposition waits in respawn. So even if you DO lose 4 on 5 marines on your initial rush (which makes your team "bad"), that leaves 1 marine+comm, 0 skulks. That's a win no matter how low your tech is.
<!--quoteo(post=1725071:date=Aug 26 2009, 05:32 AM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Aug 26 2009, 05:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Usually whenever I use to play, it was:
Spawn. Grab 50 extra LMG ammo. Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP. Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game. (Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Failed attempt at trolling, you should have said grab extra ammo in your pistol.
<!--quoteo(post=1725170:date=Aug 27 2009, 03:17 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Aug 27 2009, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Failed attempt at trolling, you should have said grab extra ammo in your pistol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think he's exaggerating. I can do half his killing most of the time, but then again i'm using a laptop touchpad... i still draw the pistol on almost every alien encounter because the encounters last longer then lmg can sustain fire lol.
<!--quoteo(post=1725137:date=Aug 26 2009, 06:40 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Aug 26 2009, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would support this, if we must have the Pistol+Knife combo yet again.
Currently, the NS1 Pistol is like both the pistols FocusedWolf described rolled into one, with only the PROs attached to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS1 pistol is akin to the developers thinking that pistol + knife = taser? lol.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think he's exaggerating. I can do half his killing most of the time, but then again i'm using a laptop touchpad... i still draw the pistol on almost every alien encounter because the encounters last longer then lmg can sustain fire lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wh...? See this is where it REALLY doesn't add up. First you claim your aim is good enough to play the game using the pistol as your primary, but then you follow up with the ridiculous statement that the fights go on long enough for you to empty a full LMG clip! Reality check, anyone?
If you regularly play on a touchpad, that MAY explain why you seem to think Marines need better weapons all the time.
I mean, I've seen people do some fairly impressive things with touchpads occasionally, but "impressive" on a touch pad is defined as "not making it completely obvious that you forgot your mouse". It's just not really on the same level.
<!--quoteo(post=1725217:date=Aug 27 2009, 10:54 AM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cxwf @ Aug 27 2009, 10:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you regularly play on a touchpad, that MAY explain why you seem to think Marines need better weapons all the time.
I mean, I've seen people do some fairly impressive things with touchpads occasionally, but "impressive" on a touch pad is defined as "not making it completely obvious that you forgot your mouse". It's just not really on the same level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The irony is i have a gaming mouse, but the laser seems to be very particular... most surfaces just don't work. Apparently i need a mousepad that is 100% non reflective and 100% smooth... that counts out plastic, and cloth mousepads are just annoying... figure i need an aluminum plate sprayed with automotive paint with a follow-up of wet sanding... Hmm a stop-sign looks like it could work. But all of this effort JUST to be slightly better at NS seems pointless. NS is more about having fun discussions and chats in-game... it's basically an overly-elaborate 3d-avatar chat-room, with aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1725260:date=Aug 27 2009, 01:42 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 27 2009, 01:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The irony is i have a gaming mouse, but the laser seems to be very particular... most surfaces just don't work. Apparently i need a mousepad that is 100% non reflective and 100% smooth... that counts out plastic, and cloth mousepads are just annoying... figure i need an aluminum plate sprayed with automotive paint with a follow-up of wet sanding... Hmm a stop-sign looks like it could work. But all of this effort JUST to be slightly better at NS seems pointless. NS is more about having fun discussions and chats in-game... it's basically an overly-elaborate 3d-avatar chat-room, with aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1725071:date=Aug 26 2009, 08:32 AM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Aug 26 2009, 08:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Usually whenever I use to play, it was:
Spawn. Grab 50 extra LMG ammo. Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP. Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game. (Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is quite reasonable, assuming you have a good hallway or the skulks don't all come at the same time. One after another before you can reload, though? Sure, it's more than possible. Even if you miss a lot of the spray on the third skulk, you should be within one knife hit of killing it. I can't say I'd pull it off every single life of every game, but if you're careful and the skulks aren't, it's cake.
<!--quoteo(post=1725260:date=Aug 27 2009, 10:42 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Aug 27 2009, 10:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The irony is i have a gaming mouse, but the laser seems to be very particular... most surfaces just don't work. Apparently i need a mousepad that is 100% non reflective and 100% smooth... that counts out plastic, and cloth mousepads are just annoying... figure i need an aluminum plate sprayed with automotive paint with a follow-up of wet sanding... Hmm a stop-sign looks like it could work. But all of this effort JUST to be slightly better at NS seems pointless. NS is more about having fun discussions and chats in-game... it's basically an overly-elaborate 3d-avatar chat-room, with aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best thing about this post is that it's serious.
<!--quoteo(post=1725287:date=Aug 27 2009, 11:23 PM:name=Dead-Inside)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dead-Inside @ Aug 27 2009, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The best thing about this post is that it's serious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited August 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1725293:date=Aug 28 2009, 12:22 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 28 2009, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope he isn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wha are you talking about? That's a completely accurate description of NS! I'm always having to mute the resfarmers on EclipseShire while my clan mates are discussing the weather and how to raid the named onos of DeadMineshaft.
<!--quoteo(post=1725366:date=Aug 28 2009, 08:38 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Aug 28 2009, 08:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wha are you talking about? That's a completely accurate description of NS! I'm always having to mute the resfarmers on EclipseShire while my clan mates are discussing the weather and how to raid the named onos of DeadMineshaft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Hmm... if you turn on the fast-switch-of-weapons option, then you can flip back and forth between weapons at the blink of an eye. If you killed the first skulk with the pistol, then you have a better chance (with a full loaded lmg) to take out the second... That's way more of a chance then if you just used the lmg exclusively.
Often times skulk also think your primary weapon is empty when they start hearing pistol fire... So you can use the pistol to lure them out and switch to the loaded lmg.
<!--quoteo(post=1724893:date=Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The LMG might do less damage per second for the first second but it holds two huge advantages over the pistol. First, being attacked by more than one doesn't equal an automatic death, you theoretically have enough bullets to kill five skulks (realistically somewhere around three). Second, and this ties into the first point, you have a larger marigin of error. Not the least because of the LMG actually being an automatic weapon making it easier to track fast moving targets than with the pistol which you have to reset periodically.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Realistically (assuming no armslab upgrades), you'd be lucky to get 1.5 skulks. Then factoring in lag and the fact the enemy is bouncing off the walls... and then their's that "choke" thing... and just how many of the bullets you fire is the server allowing to hit the enemy. The odds are you can only kill 1.5 skulks still! lol... mostly just 1 per reload. (it helps if their's 4 marines with you all spraying in the same direction).
<!--quoteo(post=1724893:date=Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Aug 25 2009, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If what you said was true, that the pistol was indeed a better primary weapon than the LMG, then why doesn't this add up in my mind as to how I imagine normal ns rounds would go if the lmg was removed? The entire early game would play out incredibly different if the marines only had the theoretical capacity to kill two skulks each, and the realistical ability to kill only one!
Numbers do lie sometimes if you're unable to interpret them correctly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ugh... hmm... yep "killing" 2 but only realistically killing 1, at a time is the average now. If they removed the lmg, and just handed out hmgs when you spawn... which eventually (through armslab upgrades) reached NS1-Hmgs... ya that would work. Having to pay all this money in res per gun and armor... it's the micro-management that kills the marines. Or actually the masochist-alien-sympathist map-makers that think 5-7 res nodes is enough (when each team is lucky to control half of those).
So in short, it's the basic weaponry everyone spawns with that needs to be upgraded over time... imagine this... the com never drops guns... and marines don't need to "buy" personal guns with personal res... instead they have a choice when they spawn... if the armslab is at level=blah then the choice of weaponry is blah,blah,blah... and eventually towards the middle of the game, you have a choice of hmgs + gls (2 weapons) when you spawn.
Here's how it will work (since the respawning, from watching the IP-reveal-movie, will take time... then why not use that time for making these loadout choices... which can be changed at the nearest NS2-armory [which make them more useful beyond just healing you in the field]):
No armslab, then you are allowed standard weapons (lmg or shotgun, knife).
Armslab dmg + 1, then you are allowed (pistol, mines or grenades, welder, lmg or shotgun, knife)
Armslab dmg + 2, then you are allowed (pistol, mines or grenades, welder, lmg or shotgun or hmg or gl, knife) [mines or grenades are now re-fillable, from this level and up, at the armory]
Armslab dmg + 3, then you are allowed (pistol, mines, grenades, welder, (choice of any 2 of the following) { lmg, shotgun, hmg, gl}, knife)
Hmm interesting... i just realized this works even better... instead of the Armslab being used for amplifying the damage levels of all weapons (which barely made a differance since a 0-dmg hmg is still infinitely better then a 3-dmg lmg), it would now allow for greater flexibility on the battlefield with the respective weapons having a FIXED damage capability. This would mean that the guns must be balanced so they are effective both at the start and end of a round (i already said how to do this, without putzing with the damages, by just adjusting the damage-fall-off-with-distance of the various guns and the rates of fire and magazine sizes)... so you might just pick a lmg because you want a faster shooting+reloading smg-type-gun instead of the heavier slower-carrying-aiming-reloading hmg.
It seems all your posts revolve around the (not accurate) fact that the marines are underpowered and the game is geared towards aliens. From this I draw the conclusion that you suck at this game.
This game needs to be fun, its set in space with aliens and marines. Why don't the marines just nuke the space base, or use the nanites to destroy everything... Exactly because that would be boring. I like the guns in NS, shotguns are more useful in most of the tight corridor situations but they become useless later in game when the aliens find it easier to get in your face. HMG already has a far longer reload time to compensate for the extra power whilst still making it extremely useful.
I don't want NS2 to be a hyper realistic shooter, I like realism but not to the extent that it is boring, go play counterstrike.
Not true. It takes 0.4 seconds to draw the LMG. You could've fired 7 LMG bullets in that time.
Who is the bigger bad?
I can't tell. Every single one of their posts in this thread has been completely asinine.
I would say more, but really, why bother? So instead I'm just going to second (third?) Dead-Inside's comment and save myself the trouble.
Spawn.
Grab 50 extra LMG ammo.
Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP.
Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game.
(Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)
This is even more easier since Skulks are super-slow as of the latest patch (GG bunnyhop/movement speed change).
Also emptying your Pistol early gets rid of that extra weight.
*****ALSO*****
Most times I have played, as Marine Commander and a Field Marine, Weapon Upgrades 1 is usually the first thing you always get within the first 2 minutes of the game. It just makes the Pistol that much more powerful.
*****ALSO*****
So yeah, I don't really want to see the Sniper Pistol make a comeback in NS2, even though how fun it might be.
<!--quoteo(post=1724705:date=Aug 23 2009, 03:08 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Aug 23 2009, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no reasonable scenario where this is true even when you're playing against bad skulks. The pistol excels only at long distances (when you shouldn't even see good skulks much) and "whipping" an alien that pokes out of a vent or corner. If you're fighting 5 newbie skulks that run straight at you, pistol is useful for prolonging the period before you have to reload your LMG, <b>but it's harder to use than the LMG even for people that are good at the game</b>. That's why you see 50 LMG kills and only one or two pistol kills.
If UWE wants to keep NS1 pistol, but thinks it's too powerful, a high ROF cap and/or a slight clip size reduction (8 or 9?) would provide all the needed effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They ain't good then. The Pistol literally has almost a perfect Cone of Fire; it's basically point and click.
One being a magnum revolver with near sniper like accuracy and high power against fades and oni but slower reload time and heavy recoil + delay between shots. Capacity = 5 shots.
And the other being more like standard defensive handguns... giant magazine... low recoil... good damage if you can get close enough... fairly crappy accuracy (you have to be "close" to mostly hit what your shooting at)
Spawn.
Grab 50 extra LMG ammo.
Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP.
Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game.
(Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any scenario where 4/5 skulks attack you without killing you, and where you can land every bullet for the kills you stated is not a "reasonable scenario". If this was actually true, how would the aliens survive a rush of 5 marines to the hive? (in a 6v6, but works up to a 6v25, "unless the marines are bad")
I've played with some good players over the years(in pubs and scrims) and watched competitive matches, but I haven't seen anyone playing seriously with this style. I myself have used it occasionally on combat servers to practice aim, but never in classic games.
Do you still play NS? If so, come play on the <GUD> server tonight. If you can get better than 1:1 there using this style I will consider that the pistol may be OP. As it stands I think you're making this up.
I personally think he is just bragging or doing the kill count equivalent of "dropping names".
I be droppin' Skulks like dropping cream cheese on a bagel.
And sorry locallyunscene, my newer comp doesn't like orginal Half-Life and its mods. It is unfortunate.
=(
*****
The reason you don't see 5 Marines Hive Rush versus 6 Skulks, or 5 Skulks and 1 Gorge, are these factors:
1) Line of Sight Friendly Fire.
2) Resource Towers. (Pure Hive rushing instantly at the start of the game is like 4-Pooling as Zerg in Starcraft.)
3) Enemy Resource Towers. (See #2.)
4) No Tech. If there is no Base ###### in the early start, you are asking to lose. (Someones gotta build the important stuff.)
5) If you fail, you basically have made the Aliens that much closer to Fades.
6) (This is the important one!) Lack of individual and team skill. (Yup I said it again.)
Is everyone forgetting that the Marine Commander can keep a Field Marine practically invulnerable(slight exaggeration), with Med Packs.
One being a magnum revolver with near sniper like accuracy and high power against fades and oni but slower reload time and heavy recoil + delay between shots. Capacity = 5 shots.
And the other being more like standard defensive handguns... giant magazine... low recoil... good damage if you can get close enough... fairly crappy accuracy (you have to be "close" to mostly hit what your shooting at)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would support this, if we must have the Pistol+Knife combo yet again.
Currently, the NS1 Pistol is like both the pistols FocusedWolf described rolled into one, with only the PROs attached to it.
And sorry locallyunscene, my newer comp doesn't like orginal Half-Life and its mods. It is unfortunate.
=(
*****
The reason you don't see 5 Marines Hive Rush versus 6 Skulks, or 5 Skulks and 1 Gorge, are these factors:
1) Line of Sight Friendly Fire.
2) Resource Towers. (Pure Hive rushing instantly at the start of the game is like 4-Pooling as Zerg in Starcraft.)
3) Enemy Resource Towers. (See #2.)
4) No Tech. If there is no Base ###### in the early start, you are asking to lose. (Someones gotta build the important stuff.)
5) If you fail, you basically have made the Aliens that much closer to Fades.
6) (This is the important one!) Lack of individual and team skill. (Yup I said it again.)
Is everyone forgetting that the Marine Commander can keep a Field Marine practically invulnerable(slight exaggeration), with Med Packs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well not quite, according to your logic, two marines can take care of all the skulks, leaving the other three as extra firepower, spawncampers, res monkeys, hive knifers, whatever suits your boat while your opposition waits in respawn. So even if you DO lose 4 on 5 marines on your initial rush (which makes your team "bad"), that leaves 1 marine+comm, 0 skulks. That's a win no matter how low your tech is.
Spawn.
Grab 50 extra LMG ammo.
Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP.
Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game.
(Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Failed attempt at trolling, you should have said grab extra ammo in your pistol.
I don't think he's exaggerating. I can do half his killing most of the time, but then again i'm using a laptop touchpad... i still draw the pistol on almost every alien encounter because the encounters last longer then lmg can sustain fire lol.
Currently, the NS1 Pistol is like both the pistols FocusedWolf described rolled into one, with only the PROs attached to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS1 pistol is akin to the developers thinking that pistol + knife = taser? lol.
Wh...? See this is where it REALLY doesn't add up. First you claim your aim is good enough to play the game using the pistol as your primary, but then you follow up with the ridiculous statement that the fights go on long enough for you to empty a full LMG clip! Reality check, anyone?
I mean, I've seen people do some fairly impressive things with touchpads occasionally, but "impressive" on a touch pad is defined as "not making it completely obvious that you forgot your mouse". It's just not really on the same level.
I mean, I've seen people do some fairly impressive things with touchpads occasionally, but "impressive" on a touch pad is defined as "not making it completely obvious that you forgot your mouse". It's just not really on the same level.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The irony is i have a gaming mouse, but the laser seems to be very particular... most surfaces just don't work. Apparently i need a mousepad that is 100% non reflective and 100% smooth... that counts out plastic, and cloth mousepads are just annoying... figure i need an aluminum plate sprayed with automotive paint with a follow-up of wet sanding... Hmm a stop-sign looks like it could work. But all of this effort JUST to be slightly better at NS seems pointless. NS is more about having fun discussions and chats in-game... it's basically an overly-elaborate 3d-avatar chat-room, with aliens.
Somewhere a little kitten just died.
just lol
Spawn.
Grab 50 extra LMG ammo.
Lead with Pistol, kill 2 Skulks or wound 1 to 5/10 HP.
Fastswitch to LMG, kill 2/3 more Skulks (unless the third cloaked behind me somehow).
^--- That is what you should be capable of doing daily as a Marine in NS1 at the very start of the game.
(Unless you are bad and don't backpedal as Marine when you have a Skulk rushing you.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is quite reasonable, assuming you have a good hallway or the skulks don't all come at the same time. One after another before you can reload, though? Sure, it's more than possible. Even if you miss a lot of the spray on the third skulk, you should be within one knife hit of killing it.
I can't say I'd pull it off every single life of every game, but if you're careful and the skulks aren't, it's cake.
The best thing about this post is that it's serious.
I hope he isn't.
Wha are you talking about? That's a completely accurate description of NS! I'm always having to mute the resfarmers on EclipseShire while my clan mates are discussing the weather and how to raid the named onos of DeadMineshaft.
lol