<!--quoteo(post=1733018:date=Oct 21 2009, 01:42 AM:name=RikkAndrsn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RikkAndrsn @ Oct 21 2009, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If UWE was really so cash-strapped that they needed the pre-orders in order to operate why didn't they just open a second Constellation type group that would be used to fund development for NS2? If people could raise a few thousand dollars to fly Gabe Newell to Australia then why not do the same thing for a game's development? I would have done that easily for 3D Realms even with no repayment guarantee.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I share your thoughts. I became supprized when I saw the pre-order, then any other donation types.
I watched the whole video on "angel investing" quite a while back when I was looking for NS2 game footage and info - which would put it back at around the Teaser Trailer's release date. Conceptually if you are prepared to have your family invest in a game through direct capital, shouldn't you also be just as prepared to have your fans - who are already loyal supporters - pitch in to complete the effort? Even if a funding drive like this only secured a few thousand dollars, that amount could be spread pretty damn far on a working capital loan's payment or even on a few installments for a longer term but larger bank loan.
Natural Selection 2 is probably going to be delayed. That means we might not see it till after the fall or worse. This happens to games and pre-ordering it does not give you any guarantee to it releasing on time. Fortunately, we are in the holiday game season. If you can't find something you like right now to play to keep you busy until NS2 comes out (especially with a strong 2010 Q1 filled with other titles that got delayed from 2009 Q4 - hey look, more games delayed with much higher budgets and financial risk than NS2), you probably don't like video games anymore (or are a huge snob).
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited October 2009
Sirot, I'd say the risk is actually probably much more for UWE than for the bigger budget games. The bigger budget games have giant studios behind them. If NS2 tanks, UWE will most likely cease to exist.
(of course, i don't know how the actual investors and stuff work, and how much in the red UWE is/would be)
<!--quoteo(post=1733145:date=Oct 21 2009, 12:05 PM:name=Seker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seker @ Oct 21 2009, 12:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I once heard it was possible to download some alpha stuff with a cracked steam client, when they still used steam ? Oo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1733064:date=Oct 20 2009, 11:23 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Oct 20 2009, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Natural Selection 2 is probably going to be delayed. That means we might not see it till after the fall or worse. This happens to games and pre-ordering it does not give you any guarantee to it releasing on time. Fortunately, we are in the holiday game season. If you can't find something you like right now to play to keep you busy until NS2 comes out (especially with a strong 2010 Q1 filled with other titles that got delayed from 2009 Q4 - hey look, more games delayed with much higher budgets and financial risk than NS2), you probably don't like video games anymore (or are a huge snob).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> See, for me, there's a conflict of interest if NS2 gets delayed. I can put down Modern Warfare 2 to play some NS2, but its odds of me even purchasing it in Q1 2010 are going to drop off pretty quickly if the new Aliens versus Predator ends up good (and it doesn't look fantastic yet, but at least there's gameplay out to see). Odds drop to almost nothing if StarCraft 2 has its beta released, because I know exactly what I'll be playing - there won't be anything to take me away from my SCVs. That means that if NS2 doesn't hook me between now and January, it's unlikely that I'll buy it. That means a delay like that will really hurt NS2, because I can gaurantee that there are plenty of people like me who would easily lose track of NS2 with all the other high profile releases in the next year. Modern Warfare 2 almost helped out NS2 by pushing a ton of competing high profile games out of the same release timeframe which means more attention can be given to smaller titles.
<!--quoteo(post=1733014:date=Oct 20 2009, 07:16 PM:name=cmc5788)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmc5788 @ Oct 20 2009, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No matter how much you say "this isn't finished!! This is just an alpha!" there would always be a subset of people who judged the game based on such an unfinished product.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously, people who think that are either trolls or morons. So it's a small group of people you can avoid.
<!--quoteo(post=1733184:date=Oct 21 2009, 09:58 AM:name=RikkAndrsn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RikkAndrsn @ Oct 21 2009, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733184"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->See, for me, there's a conflict of interest if NS2 gets delayed. I can put down Modern Warfare 2 to play some NS2, but its odds of me even purchasing it in Q1 2010 are going to drop off pretty quickly if the new Aliens versus Predator ends up good (and it doesn't look fantastic yet, but at least there's gameplay out to see). Odds drop to almost nothing if StarCraft 2 has its beta released, because I know exactly what I'll be playing - there won't be anything to take me away from my SCVs. That means that if NS2 doesn't hook me between now and January, it's unlikely that I'll buy it. That means a delay like that will really hurt NS2, because I can gaurantee that there are plenty of people like me who would easily lose track of NS2 with all the other high profile releases in the next year. Modern Warfare 2 almost helped out NS2 by pushing a ton of competing high profile games out of the same release timeframe which means more attention can be given to smaller titles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 is a budget title, which is its main advantage. Games today cost 50 and 60 dollars (PC and Console, respectively), NS2 releasing later just gives less of an incentive to buy the special edition and instead go for the much cheaper 20 dollar standard one.
Can we get this thread locked? It seems to me that the two sides are just bickering like an old married couple. The only way that will ever change is if the devs announce something and, guess what, they won't announce it in this thread.
I know that October 31st is a very important date for Unknown Worlds, and also I know that it is impossible to access the first playable version of the game (unless our developers have a surprise for us!)
So, I wanted to ask if it is possible on that day you show us a big update of pictures and concept art of things that we have not seen and why not, some ingame video of the new models in some new map.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1733245:date=Oct 21 2009, 03:22 PM:name=NS-SkorpioN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS-SkorpioN @ Oct 21 2009, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733245"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->October 31, 2009. Big media update, please.
I know that October 31st is a very important date for Unknown Worlds, and also I know that it is impossible to access the first playable version of the game (unless our developers have a surprise for us!)
So, I wanted to ask if it is possible on that day you show us a big update of pictures and concept art of things that we have not seen and why not, some ingame video of the new models in some new map.
Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that would be a nice gesture
While I definitely did not initially think so, I'm now siding with other people in this thread saying that there will be something big on the 31st. It could explain why there have been no small updates for a while, maybe UWE is working on one big update.
<!--quoteo(post=1733270:date=Oct 21 2009, 05:40 PM:name=Invader_Scoot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Invader_Scoot @ Oct 21 2009, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733270"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I definitely did not initially think so, I'm now siding with other people in this thread saying that there will be something big on the 31st. It could explain why there have been no small updates for a while, maybe UWE is working on one big update.
At least I hope.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While it's good to have a hopeful and positive outlook on the immediate future, I wouldn't put <b>too</b> much hope into there being an update on the 31st. There has been no official indication this is the case, so I would be cautious about putting <b>too</b> much faith into it.
The date just seems to fit nicely with previous experiences, thats all.
<!--quoteo(post=1733277:date=Oct 21 2009, 08:46 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Oct 21 2009, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Take it with a grain of salt.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1733307:date=Oct 21 2009, 07:46 PM:name=Tekoppen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekoppen @ Oct 21 2009, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Okay, everyone has agreed that hope for 31st but not expect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, we'll get someone on the forums screaming on the 31st, saying "the Devs promissed" this or that.
<!--quoteo(post=1733310:date=Oct 21 2009, 11:51 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox @ Oct 21 2009, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nah, we'll get someone on the forums screaming on the 31st, saying "the Devs promissed" this or that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A.) I've every right to be pissed. Everything i've read, seen, and watched has lead me to believe that the SDLC only started after the preorders had been made.
B.) YES, i FULLY expect a team of 4 people to come to the forums and post updates on the status of <b><i>MY</b></i> fully paid for game. 2 minutes out of their day will not kill a coder to make a small update to let us know how thing's are going.
C.) fall 2009, thats the date hammered down. Sure, it's not winter yet, but he's got what, a week to pull this ###### out of the bag? I've been playing NS for a good amount of years and i know how UWE operates. Only this time i've got money on the table, and i damn well expect better service than this. I dont care that they only have 4 guys or whatever, i paid my hard earned cash and i deserve answers. You playing devil's advocate for them just makes them look weaker, too. They should either appoint a community lead to handle stuff like this, or come on here and talk to us, and reassure us about the game's status. We deserve this as paying customers.
<!--quoteo(post=1733327:date=Oct 22 2009, 12:31 AM:name=TinCan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TinCan @ Oct 22 2009, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought In 2009, winter begins (marking the end of fall) on December 21.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't help but feel that some of those that are the most angry, are some of the same ones that most misunderstood what terms such as preorder and alpha and beta mean.
If you're that upset about how things are handled, then ask for your money back and leave.
Cursing and making demands is not a good way to get people to listen to you.
*Edit The Post below me was deleted. Even as a joke, please don't bait them further.
I can't figure out why people are complaining so much that the game isn't there yet or that it might get delayed. You know how much people work on that project and most other developers always delay their games or release something you wouldn't call more than a beta. Ofcourse Mr. todd1OK has the right to be pissed, its freedom of speech, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he IS right at all.
I just can't understand how people can be so harsh to that lovely little team...
Peace people :) Chill a bit and if you are really annoyed just ask for your money back, but acting like a ###### and spamm the forums with useless flames won't help anyone, so you might just stop it and do something more creative with your time (obviously most people have way too much free time).
<!--quoteo(post=1733324:date=Oct 21 2009, 09:19 PM:name=todd1Ok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (todd1Ok @ Oct 21 2009, 09:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1733324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A.) I've every right to be pissed. Everything i've read, seen, and watched has lead me to believe that the SDLC only started after the preorders had been made.
B.) YES, i FULLY expect a team of 4 people to come to the forums and post updates on the status of <b><i>MY</b></i> fully paid for game. 2 minutes out of their day will not kill a coder to make a small update to let us know how thing's are going.
C.) fall 2009, thats the date hammered down. Sure, it's not winter yet, but he's got what, a week to pull this ###### out of the bag? I've been playing NS for a good amount of years and i know how UWE operates. Only this time i've got money on the table, and i damn well expect better service than this. I dont care that they only have 4 guys or whatever, i paid my hard earned cash and i deserve answers. You playing devil's advocate for them just makes them look weaker, too. They should either appoint a community lead to handle stuff like this, or come on here and talk to us, and reassure us about the game's status. We deserve this as paying customers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're so stressed about the $40 or so you put down on a game, from a guy who created one of the best <b>FREE</b> games to come out ... ever, arguably by some and have such little faith he'll be able to provide you a game well under what 'main stream' titles are going for - then maybe its best if you asked for your money back and went on your way.
I've tried to say everything possible to 'ask for your money back', because all its going to do in the end is hurt UWE. you've made it quite clear how you feel about the situation though and its quite obvious its causing you some ... real issues.
When companies that have employees ranging into the <b>thousands</b> have trouble updating their websites or responding to every cry baby on the forums, I find it funny that you <b>expect</b> a team of 4 to pat you on the head and tell you every thing will be alright.
If you had playing NS for a good number of years, I'd say that the $40 you spent on NS2 pre-order was well spent on not only being able to play the sequel to one of the most innovative game in years but also on the entertainment you received from <b>years</b> of playing the original. Yes, the original was free, but the fact that you said you've played it for years and have such ... low expectations of Flayra makes me wonder what is wrong with you. I found it <b>unbelievable</b> that the <b>special edition</b> to their game was <b>cheaper</b> than what the average new game costs these days. It's quite obvious you're really strapped for your <b>hard earned</b> $40, I think it's best that you ask for it back so you can begin the healing process.
I don't play devils advocate for anyone. Perhaps I'm just gifted with a peak at how these things work. I was selected as a beta tester .. shoot, I don't even remember. Early 02. This was <b>very</b> early in the life of NS, it didn't even have all the weapons or classes in the game yet. Stuff just takes time to get done and no matter how much whining or complaining there is, it doesn't make the code appear any faster. I could have sworn Flayra was going to throttle us all about how much complaining we were doing about no level 5 in the game yet (he didn't even have a name at that point). I know how much NS has changed ... I know the growing pains it went through. I remember the posts, just like this that were all over the place about how long it was taking to come out. Granted, no one paid any money, but it didn't make people less upset about the delays. And despite everything, the game came out as one of the best of the year and I'd argue following years, for free. And you can't extend them $40 to further their development? That's your choice I guess. I have complete faith in the man and the people he has working for him, because I've been in this position before. The only difference this time I can provide a little more income to him rather than just a "rah rah rah, go Flayra!".
Regardless, people insisting to be upset over this will not be swayed by any form of text, Dev or otherwise. So I guess its up to you to be the adult and figure out what to do. Either accept that things happen and the game is delayed or ask for your money back and consider your purchases further in the future.
But coming into the forums with your entitlement issues isn't doing anyone any good and if it really is upsetting you that much, I think its better for everyone if you moved on.
Silver_Fox, not saying there's anything wrong with your viewpoint, but when a company steps into the real world gaming industry and starts selling product rules and expectations change. Accepting pre-orders with a finite date and then not really saying much doesn't build customer confidence - especially when November 30th is basically 5 weeks away and we aren't much closer to seeing a finished product than we were way back last spring when the teaser trailer released.
The real thing that changed the way customers look at this kind of behavior from dev studios is 3D Realms going bust: nobody in the god damn world could have foreseen that, the Duke Nukem franchise has tons of value especialy from fans and then the studio in a flash disappears. Now we have UWE, who have people literally asking for reasons to have something to believe in and throw cash at, and they get exactly the same thing as the paying customers (which is pretty much nothing, when it really comes down to it). So not only do we have economic conditions bearing down on poor business practices, but we also have an already huge lack of customer faith because there really isn't anything of substance that has materialised out of the months since UWE had its teaser released.
People in general really don't care about delays so long as the developer actually goes out there and makes it pretty clear that "hey, we're a little behind schedule and probably won't make <DEADLINE HERE>, but we're only behind by what looks like a few months so we should have a ship-ready product by <DEADLINE HERE>." Now UWE shares the montra with Blizzard that a product doesn't ship until ready. What UWE doesn't do that Blizzard has done very well is pace media updates that showcase exactly what is going on. I put my money down on StarCraft 2 right when I saw it in June 2007, and I know that regardless of whatever the hell that has gone on in the time since then that I've still seen what I've bought. In NS2's case, that's not true. Blizzard released a teaser trailer and then followed it literally 5 minutes later with a gameplay demonstration at their event in South Korea. UWE has still done nothing gameplay wise for NS2, which really causes some worry. Some of the things Blizzard showed people about StarCraft 2's development versions drove fans insane, but did Blizzard react? Yes, and changes happen after they go through and review the community reaction to each successive media update. NS2 hasn't had that kind of feedback, all there is to go upon is talk about development and random aspects of gameplay that haven't actually been shown - only described via twitter. Blizzard's Battle Reports are marketing genius. They record their own people playing the game and just add commentary to explain it so that everyone can understand what is going on. Shouldn't that be just as applicable for a game that is as defined by its unique gameplay as those within the Natural Selection universe? These are all things UWE has attempted to do but really hasn't delivered on, and customers are having a hard time coping with one company that isn't really behaving like all the others and they're doing so without explaining why. I'm sure the community knows why, but it's completely different and much more reassuring when the people who you're paying for something actually come out and defend themselves - that's actually why companies with successful Community Managers tend to have happier and more loayal fans rather than the "stop complaining" crowd that NS2 has.
I agree with some of your points about letting the community know about what is going on in terms of release schedule but comparing Blizzard to UWE is a bit much. They are different in so many ways.
And although you can take the "they are totally different companies route" or the "ones a megagiant and the other is an independent company" route, I don't see how that gives an independent company any excuse to treat its customers any with any less regard. If anything, shouldn't aspiring companies try to FOLLOW the trends of the more successful ones? That just seems like common logic to me, and hardly demanding. I don't see how anything RikkAndrsn adressed would be "breaking the bank" or really that difficult for UWE to do. If anything, it would be doing the community a little bit of service, which I think it needs, especially at this point.
Comments
I share your thoughts. I became supprized when I saw the pre-order, then any other donation types.
(of course, i don't know how the actual investors and stuff work, and how much in the red UWE is/would be)
You must be lost.
See, for me, there's a conflict of interest if NS2 gets delayed. I can put down Modern Warfare 2 to play some NS2, but its odds of me even purchasing it in Q1 2010 are going to drop off pretty quickly if the new Aliens versus Predator ends up good (and it doesn't look fantastic yet, but at least there's gameplay out to see). Odds drop to almost nothing if StarCraft 2 has its beta released, because I know exactly what I'll be playing - there won't be anything to take me away from my SCVs. That means that if NS2 doesn't hook me between now and January, it's unlikely that I'll buy it. That means a delay like that will really hurt NS2, because I can gaurantee that there are plenty of people like me who would easily lose track of NS2 with all the other high profile releases in the next year. Modern Warfare 2 almost helped out NS2 by pushing a ton of competing high profile games out of the same release timeframe which means more attention can be given to smaller titles.
Seriously, people who think that are either trolls or morons. So it's a small group of people you can avoid.
NS2 is a budget title, which is its main advantage. Games today cost 50 and 60 dollars (PC and Console, respectively), NS2 releasing later just gives less of an incentive to buy the special edition and instead go for the much cheaper 20 dollar standard one.
Big media update, please.
I know that October 31st is a very important date for Unknown Worlds, and also I know that it is impossible to access the first playable version of the game (unless our developers have a surprise for us!)
So, I wanted to ask if it is possible on that day you show us a big update of pictures and concept art of things that we have not seen and why not, some ingame video of the new models in some new map.
Thank you.
Big media update, please.
I know that October 31st is a very important date for Unknown Worlds, and also I know that it is impossible to access the first playable version of the game (unless our developers have a surprise for us!)
So, I wanted to ask if it is possible on that day you show us a big update of pictures and concept art of things that we have not seen and why not, some ingame video of the new models in some new map.
Thank you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that would be a nice gesture
At least I hope.
At least I hope.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While it's good to have a hopeful and positive outlook on the immediate future, I wouldn't put <b>too</b> much hope into there being an update on the 31st. There has been no official indication this is the case, so I would be cautious about putting <b>too</b> much faith into it.
The date just seems to fit nicely with previous experiences, thats all.
Take it with a grain of salt.
This is the internet were talking about here...
Nah, we'll get someone on the forums screaming on the 31st, saying "the Devs promissed" this or that.
Then correct my sentence please.
A.) I've every right to be pissed. Everything i've read, seen, and watched has lead me to believe that the SDLC only started after the preorders had been made.
B.) YES, i FULLY expect a team of 4 people to come to the forums and post updates on the status of <b><i>MY</b></i> fully paid for game. 2 minutes out of their day will not kill a coder to make a small update to let us know how thing's are going.
C.) fall 2009, thats the date hammered down. Sure, it's not winter yet, but he's got what, a week to pull this ###### out of the bag? I've been playing NS for a good amount of years and i know how UWE operates. Only this time i've got money on the table, and i damn well expect better service than this. I dont care that they only have 4 guys or whatever, i paid my hard earned cash and i deserve answers. You playing devil's advocate for them just makes them look weaker, too. They should either appoint a community lead to handle stuff like this, or come on here and talk to us, and reassure us about the game's status. We deserve this as paying customers.
I thought In 2009, winter begins (marking the end of fall) on December 21.
The man is correct.
If you're that upset about how things are handled, then ask for your money back and leave.
Cursing and making demands is not a good way to get people to listen to you.
*Edit
The Post below me was deleted. Even as a joke, please don't bait them further.
I just can't understand how people can be so harsh to that lovely little team...
Peace people :) Chill a bit and if you are really annoyed just ask for your money back, but acting like a ###### and spamm the forums with useless flames won't help anyone, so you might just stop it and do something more creative with your time (obviously most people have way too much free time).
B.) YES, i FULLY expect a team of 4 people to come to the forums and post updates on the status of <b><i>MY</b></i> fully paid for game. 2 minutes out of their day will not kill a coder to make a small update to let us know how thing's are going.
C.) fall 2009, thats the date hammered down. Sure, it's not winter yet, but he's got what, a week to pull this ###### out of the bag? I've been playing NS for a good amount of years and i know how UWE operates. Only this time i've got money on the table, and i damn well expect better service than this. I dont care that they only have 4 guys or whatever, i paid my hard earned cash and i deserve answers. You playing devil's advocate for them just makes them look weaker, too. They should either appoint a community lead to handle stuff like this, or come on here and talk to us, and reassure us about the game's status. We deserve this as paying customers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're so stressed about the $40 or so you put down on a game, from a guy who created one of the best <b>FREE</b> games to come out ... ever, arguably by some and have such little faith he'll be able to provide you a game well under what 'main stream' titles are going for - then maybe its best if you asked for your money back and went on your way.
I've tried to say everything possible to 'ask for your money back', because all its going to do in the end is hurt UWE. you've made it quite clear how you feel about the situation though and its quite obvious its causing you some ... real issues.
When companies that have employees ranging into the <b>thousands</b> have trouble updating their websites or responding to every cry baby on the forums, I find it funny that you <b>expect</b> a team of 4 to pat you on the head and tell you every thing will be alright.
If you had playing NS for a good number of years, I'd say that the $40 you spent on NS2 pre-order was well spent on not only being able to play the sequel to one of the most innovative game in years but also on the entertainment you received from <b>years</b> of playing the original. Yes, the original was free, but the fact that you said you've played it for years and have such ... low expectations of Flayra makes me wonder what is wrong with you. I found it <b>unbelievable</b> that the <b>special edition</b> to their game was <b>cheaper</b> than what the average new game costs these days. It's quite obvious you're really strapped for your <b>hard earned</b> $40, I think it's best that you ask for it back so you can begin the healing process.
I don't play devils advocate for anyone. Perhaps I'm just gifted with a peak at how these things work. I was selected as a beta tester .. shoot, I don't even remember. Early 02. This was <b>very</b> early in the life of NS, it didn't even have all the weapons or classes in the game yet. Stuff just takes time to get done and no matter how much whining or complaining there is, it doesn't make the code appear any faster. I could have sworn Flayra was going to throttle us all about how much complaining we were doing about no level 5 in the game yet (he didn't even have a name at that point). I know how much NS has changed ... I know the growing pains it went through. I remember the posts, just like this that were all over the place about how long it was taking to come out. Granted, no one paid any money, but it didn't make people less upset about the delays. And despite everything, the game came out as one of the best of the year and I'd argue following years, for free. And you can't extend them $40 to further their development? That's your choice I guess. I have complete faith in the man and the people he has working for him, because I've been in this position before. The only difference this time I can provide a little more income to him rather than just a "rah rah rah, go Flayra!".
Regardless, people insisting to be upset over this will not be swayed by any form of text, Dev or otherwise. So I guess its up to you to be the adult and figure out what to do. Either accept that things happen and the game is delayed or ask for your money back and consider your purchases further in the future.
But coming into the forums with your entitlement issues isn't doing anyone any good and if it really is upsetting you that much, I think its better for everyone if you moved on.
The real thing that changed the way customers look at this kind of behavior from dev studios is 3D Realms going bust: nobody in the god damn world could have foreseen that, the Duke Nukem franchise has tons of value especialy from fans and then the studio in a flash disappears. Now we have UWE, who have people literally asking for reasons to have something to believe in and throw cash at, and they get exactly the same thing as the paying customers (which is pretty much nothing, when it really comes down to it). So not only do we have economic conditions bearing down on poor business practices, but we also have an already huge lack of customer faith because there really isn't anything of substance that has materialised out of the months since UWE had its teaser released.
People in general really don't care about delays so long as the developer actually goes out there and makes it pretty clear that "hey, we're a little behind schedule and probably won't make <DEADLINE HERE>, but we're only behind by what looks like a few months so we should have a ship-ready product by <DEADLINE HERE>." Now UWE shares the montra with Blizzard that a product doesn't ship until ready. What UWE doesn't do that Blizzard has done very well is pace media updates that showcase exactly what is going on. I put my money down on StarCraft 2 right when I saw it in June 2007, and I know that regardless of whatever the hell that has gone on in the time since then that I've still seen what I've bought. In NS2's case, that's not true. Blizzard released a teaser trailer and then followed it literally 5 minutes later with a gameplay demonstration at their event in South Korea. UWE has still done nothing gameplay wise for NS2, which really causes some worry. Some of the things Blizzard showed people about StarCraft 2's development versions drove fans insane, but did Blizzard react? Yes, and changes happen after they go through and review the community reaction to each successive media update. NS2 hasn't had that kind of feedback, all there is to go upon is talk about development and random aspects of gameplay that haven't actually been shown - only described via twitter. Blizzard's Battle Reports are marketing genius. They record their own people playing the game and just add commentary to explain it so that everyone can understand what is going on. Shouldn't that be just as applicable for a game that is as defined by its unique gameplay as those within the Natural Selection universe? These are all things UWE has attempted to do but really hasn't delivered on, and customers are having a hard time coping with one company that isn't really behaving like all the others and they're doing so without explaining why. I'm sure the community knows why, but it's completely different and much more reassuring when the people who you're paying for something actually come out and defend themselves - that's actually why companies with successful Community Managers tend to have happier and more loayal fans rather than the "stop complaining" crowd that NS2 has.
And although you can take the "they are totally different companies route" or the "ones a megagiant and the other is an independent company" route, I don't see how that gives an independent company any excuse to treat its customers any with any less regard. If anything, shouldn't aspiring companies try to FOLLOW the trends of the more successful ones? That just seems like common logic to me, and hardly demanding. I don't see how anything RikkAndrsn adressed would be "breaking the bank" or really that difficult for UWE to do. If anything, it would be doing the community a little bit of service, which I think it needs, especially at this point.
:D