Gas Mask
MuYeah
Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
Since HA will be getting some sort of user-controlled ability that will make it good instead of just being better than regular marine in every way ("lockdown"), I propose uncoupling the anti-spore part of the upgrade and making it available earlier in the marine tech tree.
Spore has three uses: Res drain on marines from constant medpacking, to soften marines up for easier kills and both of these together lead to the third which is area denial. (It's a particularly good area denial ability because it gives the marines a tradeoff between staying at an objective and spending res).
My idea is to have gasmasks available either at early game or midgame, cost 10-15 or so res and have them prevent marines taking damage to their health, but still damage their armour.
By making gas masks available at early or midgame, the commander would be making a choice between short or long term net resource gain (if the marines can stay alive). Spore would still be effective at softening up marines for aliens and would cause marines weapon downtime with having to weld unless the commander is good at microing the weldbot or whatever (if this is even in the game).
Recap: Spore is still a resdrain on marines depending on how good the marines are at staying alive with their equipment.
uhh yeah, bad post im tired but idea has merit imo
Spore has three uses: Res drain on marines from constant medpacking, to soften marines up for easier kills and both of these together lead to the third which is area denial. (It's a particularly good area denial ability because it gives the marines a tradeoff between staying at an objective and spending res).
My idea is to have gasmasks available either at early game or midgame, cost 10-15 or so res and have them prevent marines taking damage to their health, but still damage their armour.
By making gas masks available at early or midgame, the commander would be making a choice between short or long term net resource gain (if the marines can stay alive). Spore would still be effective at softening up marines for aliens and would cause marines weapon downtime with having to weld unless the commander is good at microing the weldbot or whatever (if this is even in the game).
Recap: Spore is still a resdrain on marines depending on how good the marines are at staying alive with their equipment.
uhh yeah, bad post im tired but idea has merit imo
Comments
Based on NS1 it would also nicely smoothen up the early game tech leaps: you've suddenly got a decent chance of pushing against a lerk, but only if you're willing to invest a bit more on the push. Right now it takes quite good marine coordination and aim to do that.
<div align='center'><img src="http://s7.directupload.net/images/091005/vralifej.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
#2 Spores still corode the armor.
<div align='center'><img src="http://s7.directupload.net/images/091005/vralifej.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
#2 Spores still corode the armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something like your picture would be a good implementation visually because its a lot easier to see whos got the upgrade than a gas mask would be, making it a bit easier for aliens. I like it.
too many things are bad game design these days...
Anyways starcraft have an anti air missile for terran, A hard counter to both stealth and air.
Is that bad game design?
Anyways starcraft have an anti air missile for terran, A hard counter to both stealth and air.
Is that bad game design?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A counter to both stealth AND air (which includes many things) is far from a "single purpose hard counter." Having items counter multiple enemy technologies adds far more depth to the game dynamics.
Otherwise you get a chain of obvious counters that leads to static gameplay.
<b>Bad gameplay:</b>
A counters D
B counters A
C counters B
D counters C
E counters D
Player 1: A
Player 2: B
Player 1: C
Player 2: D
Player 1: E
Player 2: A
<i>infinite loop of crappy gameplay....</i>
<b>Better gameplay:</b>
A counters E and C
B counters A and D
C counters B and E
D counters C and A
E counters D and B
Player 1: A
Player 2: should play either B or D - randomly plays D
Player 1: should play either B or E - randomly plays E
Player 2: should play either A or C, but wait, player 1 has A which already counters C, should play A unless player 2 has already destroyed A - plays A
<i>Dynamic game that relies on multiple levels of counters, always changes, and allows players to preemptively counter the enemies next move...</i>
#2 Purpose and usefullness is why I suggested that spores still digest armor, this way it's NOT a hard counter and still can kill. If armor = 0, direct damage to health no matter if there's still oxygen left. Same for other hazards.
I imagine the basic armor as a shell pretty much similar to a skintight space suit, and if the armor's been down to x it doesn't isolate anymore.
Could make for interesting maps with no air in areas etc... like the outside of a ship. Although we can just have maps like that... What's that map where the marines can walk on the outside of the ship and fall down to the alien world below... damnit marines need a parachute! :P
Back to the main topic: I do like Rob's idea, where it would allow you to temporarily survive extreme conditions (vacuum especially is interesting. Shortcut through the outside of the spacestation at the cost of your armor, etc). If it's going to cost res and require some kind of research, though, I'd rather it not be too short of duration. Basically, if it's going to buy you 10 seconds of half-immunity to spores, I probably don't want to waste res equipping my team with them. However, if it provides a significant advantage vs. constant lerk gassing, maybe allows survival in a vacuum or whatever, and synergizes well with the marine's recharging armor, then I'm definitely going to consider wasting some res to stop that lerk.
I've never heard that spacesuits break apart because of space's vacuum.
Also, by the time you have these masks your marines should have the GL prop already.
This means that vent camping lerks are flushed, no matter what. Spores WILL hurt, but only if the marine is to stupid to leave the area.
We've all played NS1 and know that some good lerk spores can do some serious damage. So, I'm suggesting a gas mask upgrade. It simply eliminates the depletion of hp due to spores and any other gasses that NS2 might offer. However, it doesn't protect your armor, so ap depletion can still occur.
I suggest this as a low cost (1-2 res) option to help preserve marine life. For something that will be used early-mid game and is not crucial, I can't see a comm spending more than 3 res. Especially after you compare cost with medpacks.
There are a few spin off options that can be explored because of this. It could be a rebreather (recycles air) that allows for long term underwater breathing (don't expect to need that) and it could also be used in the vacuum of space (don't expect we're going there. Also, I wouldn't consider standard marine armor to be a space suit).
I do like the glowing face shield idea, but I don't see a filtration unit. Here's some pics of what it might look like:
<img src="http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3093/marinegasmask.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000LU7WAA.01-A32DO2WY2M0IZT._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_V34473468_.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.survivalkit911.com/assets/gasMask.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Nanoscopic rebuilding of molecules. In other words: Nanites.
What I was trying to say about the glowing mask is that it doesn't look right without something to cover the mouth, visually. You can shield the eyes, but the mouth has to breathe. I'm imagining the photoshopped picture I posted above with glowing blue glass and without the side pods.
Tangent Follows:
I see this reoccurring theme of "it's not magic, it's nanites." People talk about marines being "gritty," but nanites take away from the industrialism (what I call gritty) of the marines. If we take this to the extreme, we can just make the entire marine out of nanites and then he'll be some kind of replicating android who can take any form and can't die. He could have a glowing, blue energy suit that has climate control, blocks attacks, has a HUD, and gives us a nice view of his underwear (sounds more appealing for the female marine). As you can see, this gets out of hand rather quickly.
Nanites have their place, but I don't see the sense in a bottle of liquid nanites attached to a gun that forms bullets in the firing chamber. I can't imagine a flamethrower without a storage tank. I can't imagine a leaf blower that shoots nanites that create a tornado of minature attack robots.
btw, what do rebuilding molecules have to do with anything (sorry for the negative tone)? A gas mask filters particles, absorbs chemicals, and neutralizes chemicals. A cheap, low tech filter can do this no problem, just as low tech bullets work just fine. You can argue that spores and such are new, exotic chemicals, but then you're getting too far into realism.
That's why filters don't work on it, they simply chew through.
Not gas. Both are completely different
Don't bother, this is great brainstorming here.
I like the blue nanite facial shield majigger. It would have that glow, reducing vision, and it'd be obvious to the lerk. "Don't shoot this guy, save it for his buddy."
I'd want to see Spore being an <strike>upgrade</strike> MUTATION to the Lerk's spike attack. This leads me to my next idea-
Visible hoses! I'd want to see a special (behind the head/neck?) hitbox for any marine that has this mask on.
<!--quoteo(post=1730851:date=Oct 5 2009, 12:16 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Oct 5 2009, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://s7.directupload.net/images/091005/vralifej.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a spike hits the hose/battery pack/whatever sounds logical, the 'Windshield' flickers for a few seconds. (Think three to five)
The flickering will be slightly more vision-reducing than the normal shield (simply an annoyance) and would make the marine susceptible to spores. If the Lerk doing the neck-shooting had the spore upgrade, it'd explode on impact, releasing the cloud of spores and damaging the marine while the windshield/sporemask is flickering.
If the lerk doesn't have spores, a buddy with them can attack. Lerk flocks would be a cool strategy. :D
If it's just a lerk without spores, then the lerk is just messing with the marine for wasting money on the upgrade.
Or he gets a bilebomb in the unprotected face.
So... I didn't know that weapons were a bad idea because they only serve one purpose (doing damage). I didn't know that armor was a bad idea because it only serves one purpose (extending life). I didn't know that scent of fear was bad because it only serves one purpose (tracking enemies). etc.
The gas mask is useful in a certain situation. It may be a specific situation, but it should be really easy to develop and it will be very useful when it is needed.
The gas mask is useful in a certain situation. It may be a specific situation, but it should be really easy to develop and it will be very useful when it is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're forgetting that dealing damage is all purpose. Armor is all purpose too. Scent of fear is all purpose. Spores is all purpose. Gas mask is just there to stop spore damage and adding a gas mask just to deal with spores is bad gameplay design.
Please provide a good reason. You're calling it "bad gameplay design," when you haven't really made a good point. You said that it only serves one purpose, but lots of features in NS1 served only one purpose. Gas mask is there to counter spores. There are lots of features that counter others. This is just another one that can have a good use.
It permits marines to breath air... just the same with a little modification it can be a air supply (maybe an upgraded version)... which will permit marines to fight in places that have no air, or are toxic normally.
It might be required for use when someone starts using a flamethrower, that the ambient oxygen in some random hallway would take some time to become breathable.
So in such a form it is not "bad game play design". Btw the heavies had them in NS1 so get over it.
Der... that should have been my main point :)
Protecting the user from hazardous environtment or hostiles is the one and only thing that makes any kind of armor or weapon valid.