<!--quoteo(post=1773164:date=Jun 3 2010, 04:14 AM:name=Mahmutti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mahmutti @ Jun 3 2010, 04:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773164"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about making the flame thrower sorta "kill" the spores? Would that be too overpowered?
But then again, I dunno if spores need any kind of a counter.. They're annoying, but I don't think that they
need serious nerfing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Using a flamethrower against spores is an interesting concept. If the infestation could produce spores, or there was a offense-chamber capable of this, then it would make even more sense to use a flamethrower over gl spam (where a gl could potentially just scatter the spores, if you can imagine a hypothetical spore-emitting alien offensive structure exploding). Maybe we could have it where explosions and bullet impacts cause the infestation to release spores as a defense ability, thus making the presence of infestation even more interesting visually and tactically which in turn puts high demand on having a flamethrower, and gasmask, handy. It's a stretch but if the Lerks battle-cry could trigger the release of spores from the infestation... hmm instant fps drop among other things :P
As far as the idea of a gasmask (or personal-air-supply) that wears out over time, in practice it would be very easy to imagine because right now we have a health meter and armor meter, so what's one more meter (or just make spores attack armor, as an implied gasmask).
I like the idea of introducing hazardous environments to the map, i.e. low-air-pressure, vaccum, nuclear airborne-particles, biological, even carbon-monoxide because somebody got a little too excited with the flamethrower. All of this would make the game seem less basic, less arcadey.
Imagine a dimly lit room with spores in the air, perhaps not emitted by anyone (that the map maker wanted a room that was always full of spore gas, and you got your sort of weakly powered flashlight lighting up, and reflecting off of, the spores directly in front of you (sort of making it harder to see). I think you would want a gas mask at the very least, and the flashlight is useless because of the spores... time to fire up the flamethrower.
I'd hate to keep forking this post on different tangents, but if the hive had some sort of gas always present... that could be a spore-emitting room... gas-masks a must have just to enter (of you can wear a NS1 heavy with gasmask integrated). Although this would make it suicidal to enter a spore-protected hive with a NS1 jetpack, UNLESS you had a gasmask.
Couldn't we just "add" gasmasks to the game by giving them to both jetpacks and heavies, and a gasmask like that which existed in NS1 where their was no maintenance or filters to replace, it just worked -- all the time, i.e. NS1 heavy. Marines with no heavy or jp shouldn't be fighting higher lifeforms anyway, so maybe there doesn't need to be a gasmask for these low-level marines. But there's a problem with this idea... There's no hmg in NS2, so it would be low level marines (armed with assault rifles), fighting higher lifeforms... therefore they need protection from spores just like the jetpacks and heavies.
Don't think flamethrowers vs spore clouds is practical, considering that would usually mean flamethrowering the marine team in the cloud (I believe in FF and I believe that lerks can aim spore at marines. I also believe that if the cloud is on fire that everything inside of it should take damage from the fire, and I don't believe marines are well protected against fire. Maybe HA, but they're immune to gas anyways.) Unless of course it becomes like TF2 where FF isn't a good idea, but I don't want NS to go there in that field. I'd rather see a timed protection gas mask upgrade (max of 50 damage) or a damage reduction (1/5-1/3 damage), as umbra still is effective (if it's still in the game) regardless of the mask and even though it's a hard counter, there are very very few counters to a spore harass lerk because they only need to peak for half a second, spore, then run. Make the tech be a bit higher (level 1 or 2 armor) so that harass lerk is still vital to early game but doesn't become the dominant strategy for lerks the entire game (lerks should later become a support class in addition to harass IMO).
I dont like ff that much, but your idea sounds awesome when there is ff. You can clear out spores, but even tough it dissapears faster it also deal more damage, so you better make sure noone is in there. And with or without ff, if the lerk then shoot you with spores trough the burning cloud, you might get hit by a fire ball which makes yet another burnign cloud.
My original idea was for a droppable item similar to the jetpack where each individual one has to be dropped and if you die you lose it. The limited time of spore invulnerability would be useful and would make an easy variable with which to balance combat effectiveness.
To make the concept work there needs to be something else that becomes more viable for the alien team to be doing that would otherwise be less effective. Factoring in the decreased usefulness of spore, cost of gas masks to marines in res and intelligent use on the behalf of the player, this alternative would ideally be a net gain of resources/manpower/x for the alien in gasmask situation only, allowing a smart, dynamic alien team to not get countered too hard and even come out ahead depending on skill.
of course this all depends on spore being as central to gameplay as it is in ns1
The flamethrower that kills spores would be an interesting idea for marines that stay on the move, but once it's about holding a position it would be rather annoying.
If you are on the move you could allways ignite the spored area infront of you before you move trough it.
If you are holding a position the lerk is gonna spore in the middle of the marine pack, for the flamethrower to help there they would need to scramble each time so the spores could be burned. Which ends up with the same result as no flamethrower... lerk spores -> marines spread out.
And with the gasmask thing we should consider if it's either an dropable piece of equipment or an upgrade that applies to all marines after they spawn.
If it's a dropable piece of equipment for 10-15 res that can't be picked up after the marine dies than it needs to be usefull, really usefull. Not just "oh you can stay 5 seconds in spores and have to regen the filters for 10 seconds" usefull. That's obviously not usefull enough for such an "expensive" piece of equipment that can't be picked up again. That way no comm is gonna drop such a thing because chances are bigger that the marine is gonna get eaten by a skulk before he's gonna get any use out of it against a lerk.
At that price it should be something really usefull, after all it's only affecting one marine and can't be recovered when he dies. Make it 10-15 seconds spore immunity and 5 seconds recharge, that way 1 single marine can be immune to spores at a rather high cost. Such a piece of equipment would be usefull for the PG jumper who checks outposts and repairs stuff, while not beeing that usefull for an offense team that's on the move and has a higher chance of dying.
If it's an upgrade for all marines it should be expensive and give them a very temporary light defense against spores. I think that would be a good solution, maybe give them 5-10 seconds spore invul that doesn't recharge. It would be basicly an extra layer of armor just against spores. That way marines won't be permanent invincible to spores but it would help against spores eating away on marines for a limited time.
I think the only "Spore Blocker" should be the HEXO either by default or with a small upgrade for it.
I expect the HEXO to look more like the Goliath looking things from the Matrix movies where it is more like an open cockpit. Maybe a Global Marine Tech Upgrade can upgrade all HEXOs with a "Gasmask" like the NS1 Heavies have.
I think Vanilla/Light and Jetpack Marines should always be vulnerable to Spores.
No Hard Counters please, Starcraft 2 tried it and Blizzard is already trying to remove almost all of them. It makes the game too linear and rock, paper, and scissors like.
*****
Unless the tradeoff is that the NS2 DEVs buff the crap out of the Spikes to compensate. NS2 CS AWM Spikes, LOLZ!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1773482:date=Jun 5 2010, 03:38 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Jun 5 2010, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the only "Spore Blocker" should be the HEXO either by default or with a small upgrade for it.
I expect the HEXO to look more like the Goliath looking things from the Matrix movies where it is more like an open cockpit. Maybe a Global Marine Tech Upgrade can upgrade all HEXOs with a "Gasmask" like the NS1 Heavies have.
I think Vanilla/Light and Jetpack Marines should always be vulnerable to Spores.
No Hard Counters please, Starcraft 2 tried it and Blizzard is already trying to remove almost all of them. It makes the game too linear and rock, paper, and scissors like.
*****
Unless the tradeoff is that the NS2 DEVs buff the crap out of the Spikes to compensate. NS2 CS AWM Spikes, LOLZ!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thx to your post suggesting that the NS2 exosuit not come standard with a gasmask, like the NS1 heavy was, but rather be customizable with piecemeal (IMO overly micromanaged mw2-style "gasmask-perk") upgrades that I think i just figured out something about NS2, about what the devs may be planning.
You will notice it's a very compact piece of equipment centered on the marines back. So whose to say the heavy cannot wear a jetpack!!!
Now what do we traditionally know about the jetpack that looks to be true in this picture... The obvious lack of a gas mask and NO-chest-armor. Also the NS1 jetpack is a risk for commanders to research (i'm referring to the "heavy or jp?" game-winning-or-lossing decision). And the jetpack had so little additional armor that a fade could make short work of you in an average of 1 swipe give or take.
Now, what do we know about the NS2 exosuit? Hmm something tells my any quote i find on the forums may be outdated.
The point i'm making is if the NS2 exosuit is like a powered armor, (where the standard marine helmet is still utilized -- since it does contain the heads-up-display already), then it may be like this:
Ok maybe not exactly like that, but it will be "powered" just so it's actually possible to fight despite the added weight of the extra armor, and maybe some added strength abilities like faster running, higher jumping, and if i remember right the devs methioned that the NS2 heavy has a punching melee move. In short like the Crysis armor (and maybe cloak included :P).
=======================================
Jetpack has enhanced travelling ability but lacks gasmask and armor and are only capable of moving to defend against the enemy.
Heavies lack flight, they suck at moving (needs catalyst spam ftw) and maybe lacks gasmask + face protection (if in NS2 the exosuit utilizes the standard marine helmet).
If the gasmask is an upgrade that is the missing face-armor of the heavy/exosuit (like you suggest in your post), and it can be worn by a jetpacker (to provide him with a gasmask also),
Then, this sets a user-customization theme to the game and permits for a jetpacker to put on body armor (a heavy exosuit), and also a gasmask which completes the armor for full-body protection.
<!--quoteo(post=1773482:date=Jun 5 2010, 03:38 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Jun 5 2010, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[gasmasks] makes the game too linear and rock, paper, and scissors like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations on describing NS1. How often do you see a point in every game where their's a majority of fades AND (jetpacks OR heavies), where every marine is armed with a HMG. NS1 = "linear and rock, paper, and scissors".
You may say the same thing about a game where a jetpacker can wear a heavy AND/OR a gasmask, and you would be wrong. Yes some marines will get sick of the gas-spam that the alien player is using on marine start, and decide to buy a mask so he can weld in peace, and some won't want to pay for that upgrade. A marine that dies a lot may just want a heavy + gasmask or just a jetpack, OR NON-OF-THE-ABOVE because their is no HMG in NS2... the assault rifle is it... the marine has a top-level weapon when he spawns thereby making light-armored freshly-spawned players more then just fast-food for a fade.
Next you'll say "well the com will just spam jetpacks and heavies and gasmasks"... My answer is "so what if he has the res", shortly follwed by, "we don't know what the com can drop for certain but i believe because of the personal-res counter-strike-buying system... it's personal so because every marine is in charge of their own purchases of jetpacks and heavies, it is impossible to assume a cookie cutter marine team, which is exactly what NS1 has now.
<!--quoteo(post=1773570:date=Jun 6 2010, 10:10 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jun 6 2010, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thx to your post suggesting that the NS2 exosuit not come standard with a gasmask, like the NS1 heavy was, but rather be customizable with piecemeal (IMO overly micromanaged mw2-style "gasmask-perk") upgrades that I think i just figured out something about NS2, about what the devs may be planning.
You will notice it's a very compact piece of equipment centered on the marines back. So whose to say the heavy cannot wear a jetpack!!!
Now what do we traditionally know about the jetpack that looks to be true in this picture... The obvious lack of a gas mask and NO-chest-armor. Also the NS1 jetpack is a risk for commanders to research (i'm referring to the "heavy or jp?" game-winning-or-lossing decision). And the jetpack had so little additional armor that a fade could make short work of you in an average of 1 swipe give or take.
Now, what do we know about the NS2 exosuit? Hmm something tells my any quote i find on the forums may be outdated.
The point i'm making is if the NS2 exosuit is like a powered armor, (where the standard marine helmet is still utilized -- since it does contain the heads-up-display already), then it may be like this:
Ok maybe not exactly like that, but it will be "powered" just so it's actually possible to fight despite the added weight of the extra armor, and maybe some added strength abilities like faster running, higher jumping, and if i remember right the devs methioned that the NS2 heavy has a punching melee move. In short like the Crysis armor (and maybe cloak included :P).
=======================================
Jetpack has enhanced travelling ability but lacks gasmask and armor and are only capable of moving to defend against the enemy.
Heavies lack flight, they suck at moving (needs catalyst spam ftw) and maybe lacks gasmask + face protection (if in NS2 the exosuit utilizes the standard marine helmet).
If the gasmask is an upgrade that is the missing face-armor of the heavy/exosuit (like you suggest in your post), and it can be worn by a jetpacker (to provide him with a gasmask also),
Then, this sets a user-customization theme to the game and permits for a jetpacker to put on body armor (a heavy exosuit), and also a gasmask which completes the armor for full-body protection.
Congratulations on describing NS1. How often do you see a point in every game where their's a majority of fades AND (jetpacks OR heavies), where every marine is armed with a HMG. NS1 = "linear and rock, paper, and scissors".
You may say the same thing about a game where a jetpacker can wear a heavy AND/OR a gasmask, and you would be wrong. Yes some marines will get sick of the gas-spam that the alien player is using on marine start, and decide to buy a mask so he can weld in peace, and some won't want to pay for that upgrade. A marine that dies a lot may just want a heavy + gasmask or just a jetpack, OR NON-OF-THE-ABOVE because their is no HMG in NS2... the assault rifle is it... the marine has a top-level weapon when he spawns thereby making light-armored freshly-spawned players more then just fast-food for a fade.
Next you'll say "well the com will just spam jetpacks and heavies and gasmasks"... My answer is "so what if he has the res", shortly follwed by, "we don't know what the com can drop for certain but i believe because of the personal-res counter-strike-buying system... it's personal so because every marine is in charge of their own purchases of jetpacks and heavies, it is impossible to assume a cookie cutter marine team, which is exactly what NS1 has now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't discern if you are for or against my <b>BALANCED</b> idea. You literally argued with yourself for a few paragraphs. Can't expect less from a FocusedWolf post.
A "Gasmask" is more than a rubber face mask. That is why the HEXO will probably have room for an extra attachment on the back for the air filitration unit, the Jetpack does not(and in lore sense, it would weigh the Jetpack down too much). Remember, the NS design is not completely Future Sci-Fi themed, where we are shooting lasers and stuff, but more of a "we just started to explore space with our new technology" type of vibe.
I guess you could jump the George Lucas Fantasy Shark and turn the Gasmask into an all purpose Rebreather that works in every air condition besides vaccumed space.
<!--quoteo(post=1773588:date=Jun 6 2010, 02:29 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Jun 6 2010, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773588"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't discern if you are for or against my <b>BALANCED</b> idea. You literally argued with yourself for a few paragraphs. Can't expect less from a FocusedWolf post.
A "Gasmask" is more than a rubber face mask. That is why the HEXO will probably have room for an extra attachment on the back for the air filitration unit, the Jetpack does not(and in lore sense, it would weigh the Jetpack down too much). Remember, the NS design is not completely Future Sci-Fi themed, where we are shooting lasers and stuff, but more of a "we just started to explore space with our new technology" type of vibe.
I guess you could jump the George Lucas Fantasy Shark and turn the Gasmask into an all purpose Rebreather that works in every air condition besides vaccumed space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To explain my post. It's like at first i was going to write against your post, but i took a day to think about it and then i sort of got inspiration from your post that made be think the devs may be designing NS2 to have heavies that can wear a jetpack, and therefore (like your idea), it would be acceptable to have any marine with a gasmask because it didn't matter what order they acquired the equipment... i.e. a light marine gets a gasmask, and later a jetpack, and later a heavy... but it would be ok to if it was a requirement to get a heavy before a gasmask... i.e. light marine gets jp, then heavy, then gasmask.
Anyway, quoted from the front page:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. When heavy marines are gassed by lerks, they aren't affected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it would seem the devs are ignoring both you and me here, and just doing it like NS1 where the heavy gets a gasmask but jetpackers and regular marines can't. I wonder if a jetpack is considered a "heavy marine"!! xD
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gas - Breathing targets only (Spores, <u>Rifle nerve gas grenades</u>)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy ######!!!!!!! Rifle nerve gas grenades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<!--quoteo(post=1731122:date=Oct 6 2009, 06:09 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Oct 6 2009, 06:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731122"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Am i the only one that thinks all marines should come standard with the air supply (like the marines in the movie Avatar) and that aliens shouldn't be using lerk gas any more as an offensive spam weapon, and instead using it to produce smoke/smog to hide the aliens (that can see through it partly) and maybe another mode to heal any aliens nearby with gas similar to the kind (lets assume a hive emits this gas that heals aliens in its presence). Ya like that. :P
Could make for interesting maps with no air in areas etc... like the outside of a ship. Although we can just have maps like that... What's that map where the marines can walk on the outside of the ship and fall down to the alien world below... damnit marines need a parachute! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would seem that the "special-edition black armor", which looks green IMHO, comes equipped with splinter-cell goggles (to help the aliens see you in the dark better), and a gasmask!!!1
Yeah the special edition have gazmask to be imune against lerk, NV googles to see in dark places and they spawn with the shotgun. This is official. Now PRE ORDER !
<!--quoteo(post=1779292:date=Jul 15 2010, 11:31 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jul 15 2010, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1779292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would seem that the "special-edition black armor", which looks green IMHO, comes equipped with splinter-cell goggles (to help the aliens see you in the dark better), and a gasmask!!!1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
God, WOLF! Have you been eating stupid pills again?
wisecracking edit: The glow on the splinter cell goggles is somehow justified when you know that almost any camera can pick up light well out of the spectrum of human eyes, as in infra red.
<!--quoteo(post=1780090:date=Jul 17 2010, 10:11 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Jul 17 2010, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wisecracking edit: The glow on the splinter cell goggles is somehow justified when you know that almost any camera can pick up light well out of the spectrum of human eyes, as in infra red.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you suggesting that when you play splinter cell, it is as if you are viewing the games character from the point of view of a camera? Also i wonder why a super secret spy guy would have IR illuminators built into the lens (and always on)... You'd think the goggles would be passive and super sensitive so as to not give away the positions of ones head?
It doesnt belong here, but as far as I have been told those receptors are semi pass through and infact illuminate the area. And there's only so much you can see if you're indoors.
Comments
But then again, I dunno if spores need any kind of a counter.. They're annoying, but I don't think that they
need serious nerfing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Using a flamethrower against spores is an interesting concept. If the infestation could produce spores, or there was a offense-chamber capable of this, then it would make even more sense to use a flamethrower over gl spam (where a gl could potentially just scatter the spores, if you can imagine a hypothetical spore-emitting alien offensive structure exploding). Maybe we could have it where explosions and bullet impacts cause the infestation to release spores as a defense ability, thus making the presence of infestation even more interesting visually and tactically which in turn puts high demand on having a flamethrower, and gasmask, handy. It's a stretch but if the Lerks battle-cry could trigger the release of spores from the infestation... hmm instant fps drop among other things :P
As far as the idea of a gasmask (or personal-air-supply) that wears out over time, in practice it would be very easy to imagine because right now we have a health meter and armor meter, so what's one more meter (or just make spores attack armor, as an implied gasmask).
I like the idea of introducing hazardous environments to the map, i.e. low-air-pressure, vaccum, nuclear airborne-particles, biological, even carbon-monoxide because somebody got a little too excited with the flamethrower. All of this would make the game seem less basic, less arcadey.
Imagine a dimly lit room with spores in the air, perhaps not emitted by anyone (that the map maker wanted a room that was always full of spore gas, and you got your sort of weakly powered flashlight lighting up, and reflecting off of, the spores directly in front of you (sort of making it harder to see). I think you would want a gas mask at the very least, and the flashlight is useless because of the spores... time to fire up the flamethrower.
I'd hate to keep forking this post on different tangents, but if the hive had some sort of gas always present... that could be a spore-emitting room... gas-masks a must have just to enter (of you can wear a NS1 heavy with gasmask integrated). Although this would make it suicidal to enter a spore-protected hive with a NS1 jetpack, UNLESS you had a gasmask.
Couldn't we just "add" gasmasks to the game by giving them to both jetpacks and heavies, and a gasmask like that which existed in NS1 where their was no maintenance or filters to replace, it just worked -- all the time, i.e. NS1 heavy. Marines with no heavy or jp shouldn't be fighting higher lifeforms anyway, so maybe there doesn't need to be a gasmask for these low-level marines. But there's a problem with this idea... There's no hmg in NS2, so it would be low level marines (armed with assault rifles), fighting higher lifeforms... therefore they need protection from spores just like the jetpacks and heavies.
My original idea was for a droppable item similar to the jetpack where each individual one has to be dropped and if you die you lose it. The limited time of spore invulnerability would be useful and would make an easy variable with which to balance combat effectiveness.
To make the concept work there needs to be something else that becomes more viable for the alien team to be doing that would otherwise be less effective. Factoring in the decreased usefulness of spore, cost of gas masks to marines in res and intelligent use on the behalf of the player, this alternative would ideally be a net gain of resources/manpower/x for the alien in gasmask situation only, allowing a smart, dynamic alien team to not get countered too hard and even come out ahead depending on skill.
of course this all depends on spore being as central to gameplay as it is in ns1
If you are on the move you could allways ignite the spored area infront of you before you move trough it.
If you are holding a position the lerk is gonna spore in the middle of the marine pack, for the flamethrower to help there they would need to scramble each time so the spores could be burned. Which ends up with the same result as no flamethrower... lerk spores -> marines spread out.
And with the gasmask thing we should consider if it's either an dropable piece of equipment or an upgrade that applies to all marines after they spawn.
If it's a dropable piece of equipment for 10-15 res that can't be picked up after the marine dies than it needs to be usefull, really usefull. Not just "oh you can stay 5 seconds in spores and have to regen the filters for 10 seconds" usefull. That's obviously not usefull enough for such an "expensive" piece of equipment that can't be picked up again. That way no comm is gonna drop such a thing because chances are bigger that the marine is gonna get eaten by a skulk before he's gonna get any use out of it against a lerk.
At that price it should be something really usefull, after all it's only affecting one marine and can't be recovered when he dies. Make it 10-15 seconds spore immunity and 5 seconds recharge, that way 1 single marine can be immune to spores at a rather high cost. Such a piece of equipment would be usefull for the PG jumper who checks outposts and repairs stuff, while not beeing that usefull for an offense team that's on the move and has a higher chance of dying.
If it's an upgrade for all marines it should be expensive and give them a very temporary light defense against spores. I think that would be a good solution, maybe give them 5-10 seconds spore invul that doesn't recharge. It would be basicly an extra layer of armor just against spores. That way marines won't be permanent invincible to spores but it would help against spores eating away on marines for a limited time.
I expect the HEXO to look more like the Goliath looking things from the Matrix movies where it is more like an open cockpit. Maybe a Global Marine Tech Upgrade can upgrade all HEXOs with a "Gasmask" like the NS1 Heavies have.
I think Vanilla/Light and Jetpack Marines should always be vulnerable to Spores.
No Hard Counters please, Starcraft 2 tried it and Blizzard is already trying to remove almost all of them. It makes the game too linear and rock, paper, and scissors like.
*****
Unless the tradeoff is that the NS2 DEVs buff the crap out of the Spikes to compensate. NS2 CS AWM Spikes, LOLZ!!!
If only everyone else had.
I expect the HEXO to look more like the Goliath looking things from the Matrix movies where it is more like an open cockpit. Maybe a Global Marine Tech Upgrade can upgrade all HEXOs with a "Gasmask" like the NS1 Heavies have.
I think Vanilla/Light and Jetpack Marines should always be vulnerable to Spores.
No Hard Counters please, Starcraft 2 tried it and Blizzard is already trying to remove almost all of them. It makes the game too linear and rock, paper, and scissors like.
*****
Unless the tradeoff is that the NS2 DEVs buff the crap out of the Spikes to compensate. NS2 CS AWM Spikes, LOLZ!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thx to your post suggesting that the NS2 exosuit not come standard with a gasmask, like the NS1 heavy was, but rather be customizable with piecemeal (IMO overly micromanaged mw2-style "gasmask-perk") upgrades that I think i just figured out something about NS2, about what the devs may be planning.
If we look at the NS2 jetpack:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Jetpack_Renders_800x241.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You will notice it's a very compact piece of equipment centered on the marines back. So whose to say the heavy cannot wear a jetpack!!!
Now what do we traditionally know about the jetpack that looks to be true in this picture... The obvious lack of a gas mask and NO-chest-armor. Also the NS1 jetpack is a risk for commanders to research (i'm referring to the "heavy or jp?" game-winning-or-lossing decision). And the jetpack had so little additional armor that a fade could make short work of you in an average of 1 swipe give or take.
Now, what do we know about the NS2 exosuit? Hmm something tells my any quote i find on the forums may be outdated.
The point i'm making is if the NS2 exosuit is like a powered armor, (where the standard marine helmet is still utilized -- since it does contain the heads-up-display already), then it may be like this:
<a href="http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6702/fullbodyarmor1.jpg" target="_blank">http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6702/fullbodyarmor1.jpg</a>
Ok maybe not exactly like that, but it will be "powered" just so it's actually possible to fight despite the added weight of the extra armor, and maybe some added strength abilities like faster running, higher jumping, and if i remember right the devs methioned that the NS2 heavy has a punching melee move. In short like the Crysis armor (and maybe cloak included :P).
=======================================
Jetpack has enhanced travelling ability but lacks gasmask and armor and are only capable of moving to defend against the enemy.
Heavies lack flight, they suck at moving (needs catalyst spam ftw) and maybe lacks gasmask + face protection (if in NS2 the exosuit utilizes the standard marine helmet).
If the gasmask is an upgrade that is the missing face-armor of the heavy/exosuit (like you suggest in your post), and it can be worn by a jetpacker (to provide him with a gasmask also),
Then, this sets a user-customization theme to the game and permits for a jetpacker to put on body armor (a heavy exosuit), and also a gasmask which completes the armor for full-body protection.
<!--quoteo(post=1773482:date=Jun 5 2010, 03:38 PM:name=Jimyd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jimyd @ Jun 5 2010, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[gasmasks] makes the game too linear and rock, paper, and scissors like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations on describing NS1. How often do you see a point in every game where their's a majority of fades AND (jetpacks OR heavies), where every marine is armed with a HMG. NS1 = "linear and rock, paper, and scissors".
You may say the same thing about a game where a jetpacker can wear a heavy AND/OR a gasmask, and you would be wrong. Yes some marines will get sick of the gas-spam that the alien player is using on marine start, and decide to buy a mask so he can weld in peace, and some won't want to pay for that upgrade. A marine that dies a lot may just want a heavy + gasmask or just a jetpack, OR NON-OF-THE-ABOVE because their is no HMG in NS2... the assault rifle is it... the marine has a top-level weapon when he spawns thereby making light-armored freshly-spawned players more then just fast-food for a fade.
Next you'll say "well the com will just spam jetpacks and heavies and gasmasks"... My answer is "so what if he has the res", shortly follwed by, "we don't know what the com can drop for certain but i believe because of the personal-res counter-strike-buying system... it's personal so because every marine is in charge of their own purchases of jetpacks and heavies, it is impossible to assume a cookie cutter marine team, which is exactly what NS1 has now.
If we look at the NS2 jetpack:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/Jetpack_Renders_800x241.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You will notice it's a very compact piece of equipment centered on the marines back. So whose to say the heavy cannot wear a jetpack!!!
Now what do we traditionally know about the jetpack that looks to be true in this picture... The obvious lack of a gas mask and NO-chest-armor. Also the NS1 jetpack is a risk for commanders to research (i'm referring to the "heavy or jp?" game-winning-or-lossing decision). And the jetpack had so little additional armor that a fade could make short work of you in an average of 1 swipe give or take.
Now, what do we know about the NS2 exosuit? Hmm something tells my any quote i find on the forums may be outdated.
The point i'm making is if the NS2 exosuit is like a powered armor, (where the standard marine helmet is still utilized -- since it does contain the heads-up-display already), then it may be like this:
<a href="http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6702/fullbodyarmor1.jpg" target="_blank">http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6702/fullbodyarmor1.jpg</a>
Ok maybe not exactly like that, but it will be "powered" just so it's actually possible to fight despite the added weight of the extra armor, and maybe some added strength abilities like faster running, higher jumping, and if i remember right the devs methioned that the NS2 heavy has a punching melee move. In short like the Crysis armor (and maybe cloak included :P).
=======================================
Jetpack has enhanced travelling ability but lacks gasmask and armor and are only capable of moving to defend against the enemy.
Heavies lack flight, they suck at moving (needs catalyst spam ftw) and maybe lacks gasmask + face protection (if in NS2 the exosuit utilizes the standard marine helmet).
If the gasmask is an upgrade that is the missing face-armor of the heavy/exosuit (like you suggest in your post), and it can be worn by a jetpacker (to provide him with a gasmask also),
Then, this sets a user-customization theme to the game and permits for a jetpacker to put on body armor (a heavy exosuit), and also a gasmask which completes the armor for full-body protection.
Congratulations on describing NS1. How often do you see a point in every game where their's a majority of fades AND (jetpacks OR heavies), where every marine is armed with a HMG. NS1 = "linear and rock, paper, and scissors".
You may say the same thing about a game where a jetpacker can wear a heavy AND/OR a gasmask, and you would be wrong. Yes some marines will get sick of the gas-spam that the alien player is using on marine start, and decide to buy a mask so he can weld in peace, and some won't want to pay for that upgrade. A marine that dies a lot may just want a heavy + gasmask or just a jetpack, OR NON-OF-THE-ABOVE because their is no HMG in NS2... the assault rifle is it... the marine has a top-level weapon when he spawns thereby making light-armored freshly-spawned players more then just fast-food for a fade.
Next you'll say "well the com will just spam jetpacks and heavies and gasmasks"... My answer is "so what if he has the res", shortly follwed by, "we don't know what the com can drop for certain but i believe because of the personal-res counter-strike-buying system... it's personal so because every marine is in charge of their own purchases of jetpacks and heavies, it is impossible to assume a cookie cutter marine team, which is exactly what NS1 has now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't discern if you are for or against my <b>BALANCED</b> idea. You literally argued with yourself for a few paragraphs. Can't expect less from a FocusedWolf post.
A "Gasmask" is more than a rubber face mask. That is why the HEXO will probably have room for an extra attachment on the back for the air filitration unit, the Jetpack does not(and in lore sense, it would weigh the Jetpack down too much). Remember, the NS design is not completely Future Sci-Fi themed, where we are shooting lasers and stuff, but more of a "we just started to explore space with our new technology" type of vibe.
I guess you could jump the George Lucas Fantasy Shark and turn the Gasmask into an all purpose Rebreather that works in every air condition besides vaccumed space.
A "Gasmask" is more than a rubber face mask. That is why the HEXO will probably have room for an extra attachment on the back for the air filitration unit, the Jetpack does not(and in lore sense, it would weigh the Jetpack down too much). Remember, the NS design is not completely Future Sci-Fi themed, where we are shooting lasers and stuff, but more of a "we just started to explore space with our new technology" type of vibe.
I guess you could jump the George Lucas Fantasy Shark and turn the Gasmask into an all purpose Rebreather that works in every air condition besides vaccumed space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To explain my post. It's like at first i was going to write against your post, but i took a day to think about it and then i sort of got inspiration from your post that made be think the devs may be designing NS2 to have heavies that can wear a jetpack, and therefore (like your idea), it would be acceptable to have any marine with a gasmask because it didn't matter what order they acquired the equipment... i.e. a light marine gets a gasmask, and later a jetpack, and later a heavy... but it would be ok to if it was a requirement to get a heavy before a gasmask... i.e. light marine gets jp, then heavy, then gasmask.
Anyway, quoted from the front page:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. When heavy marines are gassed by lerks, they aren't affected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it would seem the devs are ignoring both you and me here, and just doing it like NS1 where the heavy gets a gasmask but jetpackers and regular marines can't. I wonder if a jetpack is considered a "heavy marine"!! xD
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gas - Breathing targets only (Spores, <u>Rifle nerve gas grenades</u>)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy ######!!!!!!! Rifle nerve gas grenades!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Could make for interesting maps with no air in areas etc... like the outside of a ship. Although we can just have maps like that... What's that map where the marines can walk on the outside of the ship and fall down to the alien world below... damnit marines need a parachute! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the heal spore idea LoL.
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/banners/banner_alpha.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5267/ns2botharmor.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Night vision can be an upgrade if the Aliens still get their 'Alien Vision'.
God, WOLF!
Have you been eating stupid pills again?
wisecracking edit:
The glow on the splinter cell goggles is somehow justified when you know that almost any camera can pick up light well out of the spectrum of human eyes, as in infra red.
The glow on the splinter cell goggles is somehow justified when you know that almost any camera can pick up light well out of the spectrum of human eyes, as in infra red.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you suggesting that when you play splinter cell, it is as if you are viewing the games character from the point of view of a camera? Also i wonder why a super secret spy guy would have IR illuminators built into the lens (and always on)... You'd think the goggles would be passive and super sensitive so as to not give away the positions of ones head?
And there's only so much you can see if you're indoors.
Now hush.