<!--quoteo(post=1736859:date=Nov 9 2009, 06:01 PM:name=BloodyIron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BloodyIron @ Nov 9 2009, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Linux support right now. I know, it's a bit petty, but after what happened with UT3 I want to see it available (at least beta or something) before I pre-order.
Besides, if a beta Linux client comes available, I'll be all upons that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second that.
Normally don't take the time to register on these forums, but this game I defenitly want this one on my Linux based HTPC (Ubuntu 9.10 + XBMC).
<!--quoteo(post=1736889:date=Nov 9 2009, 04:41 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 9 2009, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's probably easier for you guys to dual-boot into Windows than it is for UWe to port their game engine onto Linux.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you build your own machine that means you would need to spend several hundred dollars on a Windows license to do so. In addition you would need to collect and install virus scanners, malware prevention, update drivers, etc that comes along with a Windows install. It may be relatively easy compared to their work, but for the user it is much more work than simply not buying the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1736891:date=Nov 9 2009, 10:47 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Nov 9 2009, 10:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It may be relatively easy compared to their work, but for the user it is much more work than simply not buying the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah - you would need to purchase and install an operating system and antivirus software just like 99% of the computer-using population does.
<!--quoteo(post=1736891:date=Nov 9 2009, 10:47 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Nov 9 2009, 10:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you build your own machine that means you would need to spend several hundred dollars on a Windows license to do so. In addition you would need to collect and install virus scanners, malware prevention, update drivers, etc that comes along with a Windows install. It may be relatively easy compared to their work, but for the user it is much more work than simply not buying the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gotta agree with zex for once ( <- ?!?!) that dual booting is probably the way to go instead of a port. In my experience, getting anything to work on Linux is a pain (thought I'm pretty inept with it) so I cant imagine how hard it is to get something as hardware sensitive as a 3D engine to work on all the variants of Linux. Also not to step on your argument, but I can have a windows machine from formatted to game ready in about 45 min. Its not that much work :P
<!--quoteo(post=1736891:date=Nov 9 2009, 03:47 PM:name=snooggums)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snooggums @ Nov 9 2009, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you build your own machine that means you would need to spend several hundred dollars on a Windows license to do so. In addition you would need to collect and install virus scanners, malware prevention, update drivers, etc that comes along with a Windows install. It may be relatively easy compared to their work, but for the user it is much more work than simply not buying the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not that I'm a fan of Windows (primarily because i think being a fan of a set of tools is odd) but there are and were about a jillion ways to get Windows 7 for under 50 dollars. If you're not installing virus scanners on your linux machine and practicing safe computing (like not logging in as root) it's more a matter of being stupid than anything else. Updating drivers is something that happens in every OS. My computer is my own custom build and I don't have linux on it because I don't want to invest the amount of time it takes to set up a linux distribution. Even the relatively friendly ones like Ubuntu require diving into config files to get non-standard hardware working. If linux users don't want to buy the game because it's not on linux, the reason is <b>ideological</b>, not because of the effort required, since they've obviously already done the work to get their linux setup working.
edit: I should make clear that I'm not dinging linux users for being ideological or advocating for what they believe in. I think the effort argument is disingenuous.
<!--quoteo(post=1736898:date=Nov 9 2009, 04:55 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 9 2009, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736898"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah - you would need to purchase and install an operating system and antivirus software just like 99% of the computer-using population does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
99% of people just stick with the OS that came with their computer, which is Windows only because people fear anything new. Since they have such a large share the hardware makers don't make drivers for their OS (hence some people's issues) and that just reinforces the 'do it like everyone else' mentality you just used.
Doing it the hard way because everyone else does is stupid. If we were talking motorcycles and I said "I would buy that one if it had an automatic starter because I don't like using a kick start because it is more work" and you responded with "Yeah - you would have to use a kick start like 99% of the motorcycle using population does" I would find your logic just as lacking.
<!--quoteo(post=1736900:date=Nov 9 2009, 10:59 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Nov 9 2009, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta agree with zex for once ( <- ?!?!) that dual booting is probably the way to go instead of a port. In my experience, getting anything to work on Linux is a pain (thought I'm pretty inept with it) so I cant imagine how hard it is to get something as hardware sensitive as a 3D engine to work on all the variants of Linux. Also not to step on your argument, but I can have a windows machine from formatted to game ready in about 45 min. Its not that much work :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh... This presumes that you have a legit XP or (UGH...) Vista install to do that with. Dual booting is also obnoxious in that now you've got to boot out to play games and boot back in to do other things. After doing Linux for over 15 yeas (Yes...), I can say that dual booting isn't an answer.
Besides, I am philosophically against doing Windows for gaming. Bad for my after-hours work, actually... ;) (If you're wondering, I've several published ports to my name and a number of waiting to be published ones...)
WINE's okay if there's no chance of a port. However...I'm in the middle of completing the other half of a deal for the latest work I've done or else I'd have already hit them up for a deal to help them with the port (and I might still do it...very, very nice title NS2 is... :D).
In the end, I'd have to concur with the people saying that it's lack of an official answer for Linux that precludes my pre-ordering. I would if there was a Linux version actually going to happen here. (Note: "actually" does mean that it is going to happen- Epic messed themselves up on rep pretty badly with UT3 there...)
<!--quoteo(post=1736699:date=Nov 7 2009, 10:30 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Nov 7 2009, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736699"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Didn't they say somewhere the Skulk was going to the 'soldier' class in NS2? If it's going to be more of a tank (note: comparitive to NS1, not absolute) then it makes sense it should be easier to hit. They definitely said the Skulk will have more hitpoints relative to NS1. Someone else can help me with the quotes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks shrink automatically to fit into vents. When they exit the vents they enlarge automatically (just add water) to fulfill their need as a bullet magnet.
Honestly though, I think they just put together a still rendering of what they have so far. Hopefully, the skulk will be scaled back a bit because right now they do look a little too easy to hit. However, who really knows... maybe their leap closes the distance so quick that they need to be somewhat easy to hit.
<!--quoteo(post=1736912:date=Nov 9 2009, 11:25 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Nov 9 2009, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If linux users don't want to buy the game because it's not on linux, the reason is <b>ideological</b>, not because of the effort required, since they've obviously already done the work to get their linux setup working.
edit: I should make clear that I'm not dinging linux users for being ideological or advocating for what they believe in. I think the effort argument is disingenuous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. And, you'd be right as much as anything else. And I can respect someone coming from that perspective.
It IS ideological. In my case, it's very, very much so. I make a living doing Linux stuff. Not just game porting- my day job is doing device driver and distribution development for some time now. (I've been doing it pretty consistently for the last 10 years now...). Moreover, ater having done sustaining engineering work on the Vista OpenGL drivers for AMD as the one thing NOT Linux related in those last 10, I can say I've LITTLE use for a Vista/Win7 system- I know how some of the guts work and it's not pretty.
<!--quoteo(post=1736889:date=Nov 9 2009, 10:41 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 9 2009, 10:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736889"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's probably easier for you guys to dual-boot into Windows than it is for UWe to port their game engine onto Linux.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it is... whats your point?
<!--quoteo(post=1736912:date=Nov 9 2009, 11:25 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Nov 9 2009, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*snip* My computer is my own custom build and I don't have linux on it because I don't want to invest the amount of time it takes to set up a linux distribution. Even the relatively friendly ones like Ubuntu require diving into config files to get non-standard hardware working. If linux users don't want to buy the game because it's not on linux, the reason is <b>ideological</b>, not because of the effort required, since they've obviously already done the work to get their linux setup working.
edit: I should make clear that I'm not dinging linux users for being ideological or advocating for what they believe in. I think the effort argument is disingenuous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ofcourse most decisions can be explained as ideological. Personally I don't like to buy windows games because its irritating to have to restart my htpc when I want to play a game. Also I just want my daughter and wife to grab the remote select a game and play it... WAF was the term I believe? and DAF offcourse ;).
Ns2 would be for myself by the way :))
p.s. As windows installing linux was easy from the start (about a year ago), just like using it for standard tasks. But getting used to the file structure compared to the one in windows and learning the basic (bash) commands instead of the windows commands did took me a few of my precious evenings. Luckely my daughter forgive me IF I promissed to play with her and her dolhouse for the evenings in the next week (yes learning linux took more time than i've estimated).
once i hear a Linux client is in the works for NS2 i will buy it , not to then' i got sucked into UT3! being on the linux which never happen , i will wait this time & not jump the gun.
Been ages since I've looked at this forum (started playing NS on day one but have since moved on). I preordered it at the $40 level just to toss the team some cash for the chance that the game gets done. I probably have more cash to toss around (Nursing school is the best savings plan ever - you have no life in which to spend money). If you have the extra cash lying about, I find it kind of silly not to just toss the team 20 bucks. We all enjoyed NS, we owe them this much anyway. As for Linux issues - HDs aren't micro size these days....why the hell not dual boot? It's not like windows is a mercilessly expensive OS. You're not buying an adobe program after all.
<!--quoteo(post=1737117:date=Nov 10 2009, 04:02 PM:name=Karrde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karrde @ Nov 10 2009, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737117"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for Linux issues - HDs aren't micro size these days....why the hell not dual boot? It's not like windows is a mercilessly expensive OS. You're not buying an adobe program after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-32-116-511-_-Product" target="_blank">Windows XP home OEM</a> only costs $90(Sure it's only for the OEM version but OEM is enough).
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116677&cm_re=Windows_Vista_OEM-_-32-116-677-_-Product" target="_blank">Vista Home Premium OEM, 64bit edition</a> costs just $100. (32 bit costs the same).
As for UWE making a Linux version, step 1 for them is to release the game <i>at all</i>.
<!--quoteo(post=1737135:date=Nov 11 2009, 03:37 AM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petco @ Nov 11 2009, 03:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737135"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree. <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-32-116-511-_-Product" target="_blank">Windows XP home OEM</a> only costs $90(Sure it's only for the OEM version but OEM is enough).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would you liked it if someone told you to install Linux just to play a game ? That's just <b>rude</b>. Why would I pay $90 for an inferior system ? What you fail to mention is having to manage the windows install, most importantly anti-virus and anti-malware stuff. Unless you don't mind your computer sends spam, or don't mind putting your Linux partitions at risk.
Now can we please go back to topic ? It's about what keeps you from pre-ordering. I gave my reason, you can give yours. If UWE made an official statement they are going to release a linux client, with delay or not, I would preorder. I like many things they say about NS2, especially modding capabilities and designing the engine and tools so that it can be useful for a small team. FPS games get harder and harder to mod. Back in Q2 days you could easily create a map and play on it. Yes, you'd usually have to use stock textures and stuff, but this gave you more time to focus on other things.
<!--quoteo(post=1737156:date=Nov 11 2009, 05:06 AM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Nov 11 2009, 05:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How would you liked it if someone told you to install Linux just to play a game ? That's just <b>rude</b>. Why would I pay $90 for an inferior system ? What you fail to mention is having to manage the windows install, most importantly anti-virus and anti-malware stuff. Unless you don't mind your computer sends spam, or don't mind putting your Linux partitions at risk.
Now can we please go back to topic ? It's about what keeps you from pre-ordering. I gave my reason, you can give yours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because the "inferior system" runs the game?
I find this funny because I always saw Linux users as computing-elitists who usually aren't interested in gaming, since they're forgoing that with Linux anyways. The Linux users who "demand a Linux version!!!!!11" just seem like they're trying to be loud or something. I remember it being pretty common logic in the olden days that if you wanted to play computer games, you didn't buy a Mac (as an example).
Its like in console games: you want a game thats only on one console, but that console happens to be the one you don't own because its "inferrior." If you want to play the Halo games go get a XBox, or don't play them. Not to sound harsh, but in my opinion, either deal with it and buy the console, or just live without the game. /shrug
<!--quoteo(post=1737117:date=Nov 10 2009, 06:02 PM:name=Karrde)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karrde @ Nov 10 2009, 06:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737117"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Been ages since I've looked at this forum (started playing NS on day one but have since moved on). I preordered it at the $40 level just to toss the team some cash for the chance that the game gets done. I probably have more cash to toss around (Nursing school is the best savings plan ever - you have no life in which to spend money). If you have the extra cash lying about, I find it kind of silly not to just toss the team 20 bucks. We all enjoyed NS, we owe them this much anyway. As for Linux issues - HDs aren't micro size these days....why the hell not dual boot? It's not like windows is a mercilessly expensive OS. You're not buying an adobe program after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We already determined this, Karrde. Linux users are cheap in nature. They don't have windows.. Hell, they get their computers off street curbs. :P
Of course I'm kidding.
Linux is written by developers for developers, it's a great multi-functional tool. However, It's not where the market is at, or should be at. Popularizing linux as an alternative to windows for end-users and casual operators is ridiculous in premise. Keep the clear distinction. On that note, a user who is just computer literate enough to configure is still just a user. Unless you've actually contributed to Linux, your claims of technical expertise don't represent anything other than an experienced user (that includes IT experts, broadly). Windows has enough of those to augment the computer illiterates, there is even a market in it (i.e. troubleshooting expert). If you have a natural desire to learn computer systems, utilize particular utilities and services, and/or develop software (no matter what type) and aren't too concerned about the marketability of such a development, than I recommend you familiarize yourself with a Linux OS. However, I recommend your Linux OS be on a separate hard disc when duel booting.
<!--quoteo(post=1737159:date=Nov 11 2009, 05:16 AM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Nov 11 2009, 05:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->because the "inferior system" runs the game?
I find this funny because I always saw Linux users as computing-elitists who usually aren't interested in gaming, since they're forgoing that with Linux anyways. The Linux users who "demand a Linux version!!!!!11" just seem like they're trying to be loud or something. I remember it being pretty common logic in the olden days that if you wanted to play computer games, you didn't buy a Mac (as an example).
Its like in console games: you want a game thats only on one console, but that console happens to be the one you don't own because its "inferrior." If you want to play the Halo games go get a XBox, or don't play them. Not to sound harsh, but in my opinion, either deal with it and buy the console, or just live without the game. /shrug<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that at one point the same line of reasoning was applied to Windows and you *HAD* to use DOS...and, yes, I DO know something about that as I've been in computing since the TRS-80 Model I era of computing.
The truth of the matter is that it really is poor manners to suggest that people dual boot as the sole answer for things. I certainly don't tell Windows users they need to do that for anything. There should be a hint there, but nooo...
<!--quoteo(post=1737168:date=Nov 11 2009, 06:31 AM:name=Svartalf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svartalf @ Nov 11 2009, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Considering that at one point the same line of reasoning was applied to Windows and you *HAD* to use DOS...and, yes, I DO know something about that as I've been in computing since the TRS-80 Model I era of computing.
The truth of the matter is that it really is poor manners to suggest that people dual boot as the sole answer for things. I certainly don't tell Windows users they need to do that for anything. There should be a hint there, but nooo...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think its a little silly to demand a company to provide a Linux version of a game on the other side (especially at launch). You can always hold your breath for a year or so for them to be nice enough (and free enough with their time) port it, but...I personally think they have better things they could be spending their time on when it comes to this game. I guess I'm biased though.
Windows users don't dual boot (or get told to) because its clear that they don't need to. If they want to do the things you can do on Linux then they get Linux. If you want to do the things you can do on Windows, get Windows? Seems simple to me.
<!--quoteo(post=1737169:date=Nov 11 2009, 06:51 AM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Nov 11 2009, 06:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737169"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think its a little silly to demand a company to provide a Linux version of a game on the other side (especially at launch). You can always hold your breath for a year or so for them to be nice enough (and free enough with their time) port it, but...I personally think they have better things they could be spending their time on when it comes to this game. I guess I'm biased though.
Windows users don't dual boot (or get told to) because its clear that they don't need to. If they want to do the things you can do on Linux then they get Linux. If you want to do the things you can do on Windows, get Windows? Seems simple to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You missed the point I was trying to make... Your line is the same one they used for Windows users back ages ago. ;-)
And there is no demanding a Linux version, only asking as best as I can see. I certainly didn't demand anything (and offered my services, even, to help make a Linux version possible...)
It's not simple like you describe. You only see it that way. That's your right- but it's not how the world works, nor is it how I see things.
<!--quoteo(post=1737171:date=Nov 11 2009, 07:15 AM:name=Svartalf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Svartalf @ Nov 11 2009, 07:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You missed the point I was trying to make... Your line is the same one they used for Windows users back ages ago. ;-)
And there is no demanding a Linux version, only asking as best as I can see. I certainly didn't demand anything (and offered my services, even, to help make a Linux version possible...)
It's not simple like you describe. You only see it that way. That's your right- but it's not how the world works, nor is it how I see things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What isn't how the world works? Windows being the dominate, clear, accepted OS if you want to game with a PC for the past so many years, and people being forced to use it if they want to play most games? I'll be honest I'm having trouble understanding any of your posts, but I don't think that has much to do with my own comprehension.
Come on guys, please reread this thread. As far as I'm reading most linux users are asking/hoping for a linux version. sure windows is dominant on the desktop, linux is dominant on the servers and mac is dominant on the Ipod.... who cares?
If you have operating system X, and you like game Y, wouldn't you want Y to run on your X?
<!--quoteo(post=1737195:date=Nov 11 2009, 01:55 PM:name=tmpdir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tmpdir @ Nov 11 2009, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Come on guys, please reread this thread. As far as I'm reading most linux users are asking/hoping for a linux version. sure windows is dominant on the desktop, linux is dominant on the servers and mac is dominant on the Ipod.... who cares?
If you have operating system X, and you like game Y, wouldn't you want Y to run on your X?
I do, thats all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fair enough. I just think it gets silly when it reaches the "demanding" phase, or "I'm not buying this game until its Linux!!!11" phase. If they said it was eventually coming out for Linux then I would understand, but...anyways you're right, lets get back on topic
At the risk of keeping this thread off-topic, let's see here.
* You can find Windows online for free. Hell, Windows 7 RC is free right now: Try it out and if you like it, buy it later (or <i>find it online for free somewhere</i>) * Free anti-virus: $0 * Free firewall, or use the Windows one: $0 * HD Space Used: Maybe 30 GB (OS + software + NS2)
I think that non-Windows users LOVE to sensationalize the virus/malware dangers of using Windows. I use Windows Defender & AVG Free and am fairly careful about what I run on my computer and actually read warnings (I know some people just click 'ok' without reading). Hell, I even have User Account Control disabled. What's my point? I've had <b>zero</b> problems with viruses, <b>zero</b> problems with malware and <b>zero</b> hiccups. I've reformatted <b>zero</b> times so far and am very happy with my system. I'm sure you love Linux but you don't <b>have</b> to go out and buy software to protect your computer if use Windows (because there are many programs out there that do a better job for free), and you don't always have to live in fear that your computer is going to crash at any moment. Also, seeing how you're obviously quite computer literate (that's the minimum requirement to use Linux on a regular basis) I doubt you're really at risk of running some shady program that brings your computer to its knees in the first place.
I agree with you that it's <i>kinda</i> rude to tell someone to dual boot just to run one program but.. it's a harsh truth. You either run an emulator in Linux or you dual boot- or you wait for a Linux version. Sorry.
EDIT: I haven't preordered yet because I haven't seen in-game video. I've seen mockups, get giddy about every update and believe the devs released in-engine screenshots on Halloween but without something more concrete like the game actually working comes along, I'll stay skeptical. It's a hell of an undertaking, writing game code, netcode, etc. and I think UWE is doing their best but will NS2 be the GOTY in 2010 or 2014?
<!--quoteo(post=1737156:date=Nov 11 2009, 05:06 AM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Nov 11 2009, 05:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1737156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How would you liked it if someone told you to install Linux just to play a game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For ######'s sake. That's exactly how this works - if you want to play Uncharted 2, you buy a PS3. You don't whine about how Uncharted isn't multiplatform, you get the proper hardware if playing it is important enough to you to warrant the expense. Same with PC gaming. I want to play TF2, therefore I purchased Windows to dual boot on my Macbook. Would I like to see Valve support Mac OS? Of course, but at the same time I recognize that as of right now, <i>I need to install Windows to play the games I want to play.</i> Certain apps are only available for certain OS's - thats just the way software development goes, and being a Linux user doesn't make you special, it just means even less software is going to be compatible - which for most people is an even stronger argument for dual booting.
Just to be clear, this isn't an argument for pre-ordering or not. I'm not going to personally until there is a solid release date and reasons to believe that date won't slip.
Comments
Besides, if a beta Linux client comes available, I'll be all upons that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second that.
Normally don't take the time to register on these forums, but this game I defenitly want this one on my Linux based HTPC (Ubuntu 9.10 + XBMC).
If you build your own machine that means you would need to spend several hundred dollars on a Windows license to do so. In addition you would need to collect and install virus scanners, malware prevention, update drivers, etc that comes along with a Windows install. It may be relatively easy compared to their work, but for the user it is much more work than simply not buying the game.
Yeah - you would need to purchase and install an operating system and antivirus software just like 99% of the computer-using population does.
Gotta agree with zex for once ( <- ?!?!) that dual booting is probably the way to go instead of a port. In my experience, getting anything to work on Linux is a pain (thought I'm pretty inept with it) so I cant imagine how hard it is to get something as hardware sensitive as a 3D engine to work on all the variants of Linux. Also not to step on your argument, but I can have a windows machine from formatted to game ready in about 45 min. Its not that much work :P
Not that I'm a fan of Windows (primarily because i think being a fan of a set of tools is odd) but there are and were about a jillion ways to get Windows 7 for under 50 dollars. If you're not installing virus scanners on your linux machine and practicing safe computing (like not logging in as root) it's more a matter of being stupid than anything else. Updating drivers is something that happens in every OS. My computer is my own custom build and I don't have linux on it because I don't want to invest the amount of time it takes to set up a linux distribution. Even the relatively friendly ones like Ubuntu require diving into config files to get non-standard hardware working. If linux users don't want to buy the game because it's not on linux, the reason is <b>ideological</b>, not because of the effort required, since they've obviously already done the work to get their linux setup working.
edit: I should make clear that I'm not dinging linux users for being ideological or advocating for what they believe in. I think the effort argument is disingenuous.
99% of people just stick with the OS that came with their computer, which is Windows only because people fear anything new. Since they have such a large share the hardware makers don't make drivers for their OS (hence some people's issues) and that just reinforces the 'do it like everyone else' mentality you just used.
Doing it the hard way because everyone else does is stupid. If we were talking motorcycles and I said "I would buy that one if it had an automatic starter because I don't like using a kick start because it is more work" and you responded with "Yeah - you would have to use a kick start like 99% of the motorcycle using population does" I would find your logic just as lacking.
Uh... This presumes that you have a legit XP or (UGH...) Vista install to do that with. Dual booting is also obnoxious in that now you've got to
boot out to play games and boot back in to do other things. After doing Linux for over 15 yeas (Yes...), I can say that dual booting isn't an answer.
Besides, I am philosophically against doing Windows for gaming. Bad for my after-hours work, actually... ;)
(If you're wondering, I've several published ports to my name and a number of waiting to be published ones...)
WINE's okay if there's no chance of a port. However...I'm in the middle of completing the other half of a deal for the latest work I've done or else
I'd have already hit them up for a deal to help them with the port (and I might still do it...very, very nice title NS2 is... :D).
In the end, I'd have to concur with the people saying that it's lack of an official answer for Linux that precludes my pre-ordering. I would
if there was a Linux version actually going to happen here. (Note: "actually" does mean that it is going to happen- Epic messed themselves
up on rep pretty badly with UT3 there...)
Skulks shrink automatically to fit into vents. When they exit the vents they enlarge automatically (just add water) to fulfill their need as a bullet magnet.
Honestly though, I think they just put together a still rendering of what they have so far. Hopefully, the skulk will be scaled back a bit because right now they do look a little too easy to hit. However, who really knows... maybe their leap closes the distance so quick that they need to be somewhat easy to hit.
edit: I should make clear that I'm not dinging linux users for being ideological or advocating for what they believe in. I think the effort argument is disingenuous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you. And, you'd be right as much as anything else. And I can respect someone coming from that perspective.
It IS ideological. In my case, it's very, very much so. I make a living doing Linux stuff. Not just game porting- my day job
is doing device driver and distribution development for some time now. (I've been doing it pretty consistently for the last
10 years now...). Moreover, ater having done sustaining engineering work on the Vista OpenGL drivers for AMD as the one
thing NOT Linux related in those last 10, I can say I've LITTLE use for a Vista/Win7 system- I know how some of the guts
work and it's not pretty.
Yes it is... whats your point?
edit: I should make clear that I'm not dinging linux users for being ideological or advocating for what they believe in. I think the effort argument is disingenuous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ofcourse most decisions can be explained as ideological. Personally I don't like to buy windows games because its irritating to have to restart my htpc when I want to play a game. Also I just want my daughter and wife to grab the remote select a game and play it... WAF was the term I believe? and DAF offcourse ;).
Ns2 would be for myself by the way :))
p.s. As windows installing linux was easy from the start (about a year ago), just like using it for standard tasks. But getting used to the file structure compared to the one in windows and learning the basic (bash) commands instead of the windows commands did took me a few of my precious evenings. Luckely my daughter forgive me IF I promissed to play with her and her dolhouse for the evenings in the next week (yes learning linux took more time than i've estimated).
I agree. <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-32-116-511-_-Product" target="_blank">Windows XP home OEM</a> only costs $90(Sure it's only for the OEM version but OEM is enough).
<a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116677&cm_re=Windows_Vista_OEM-_-32-116-677-_-Product" target="_blank">Vista Home Premium OEM, 64bit edition</a> costs just $100. (32 bit costs the same).
As for UWE making a Linux version, step 1 for them is to release the game <i>at all</i>.
How would you liked it if someone told you to install Linux just to play a game ? That's just <b>rude</b>. Why would I pay $90 for an inferior system ? What you fail to mention is having to manage the windows install, most importantly anti-virus and anti-malware stuff. Unless you don't mind your computer sends spam, or don't mind putting your Linux partitions at risk.
Now can we please go back to topic ? It's about what keeps you from pre-ordering. I gave my reason, you can give yours. If UWE made an official statement they are going to release a linux client, with delay or not, I would preorder. I like many things they say about NS2, especially modding capabilities and designing the engine and tools so that it can be useful for a small team. FPS games get harder and harder to mod. Back in Q2 days you could easily create a map and play on it. Yes, you'd usually have to use stock textures and stuff, but this gave you more time to focus on other things.
Now can we please go back to topic ? It's about what keeps you from pre-ordering. I gave my reason, you can give yours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because the "inferior system" runs the game?
I find this funny because I always saw Linux users as computing-elitists who usually aren't interested in gaming, since they're forgoing that with Linux anyways. The Linux users who "demand a Linux version!!!!!11" just seem like they're trying to be loud or something. I remember it being pretty common logic in the olden days that if you wanted to play computer games, you didn't buy a Mac (as an example).
Its like in console games: you want a game thats only on one console, but that console happens to be the one you don't own because its "inferrior." If you want to play the Halo games go get a XBox, or don't play them. Not to sound harsh, but in my opinion, either deal with it and buy the console, or just live without the game. /shrug
We already determined this, Karrde. Linux users are cheap in nature. They don't have windows.. Hell, they get their computers off street curbs. :P
Of course I'm kidding.
Linux is written by developers for developers, it's a great multi-functional tool. However, It's not where the market is at, or should be at. Popularizing linux as an alternative to windows for end-users and casual operators is ridiculous in premise. Keep the clear distinction. On that note, a user who is just computer literate enough to configure is still just a user. Unless you've actually contributed to Linux, your claims of technical expertise don't represent anything other than an experienced user (that includes IT experts, broadly). Windows has enough of those to augment the computer illiterates, there is even a market in it (i.e. troubleshooting expert). If you have a natural desire to learn computer systems, utilize particular utilities and services, and/or develop software (no matter what type) and aren't too concerned about the marketability of such a development, than I recommend you familiarize yourself with a Linux OS. However, I recommend your Linux OS be on a separate hard disc when duel booting.
I find this funny because I always saw Linux users as computing-elitists who usually aren't interested in gaming, since they're forgoing that with Linux anyways. The Linux users who "demand a Linux version!!!!!11" just seem like they're trying to be loud or something. I remember it being pretty common logic in the olden days that if you wanted to play computer games, you didn't buy a Mac (as an example).
Its like in console games: you want a game thats only on one console, but that console happens to be the one you don't own because its "inferrior." If you want to play the Halo games go get a XBox, or don't play them. Not to sound harsh, but in my opinion, either deal with it and buy the console, or just live without the game. /shrug<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering that at one point the same line of reasoning was applied to Windows and you *HAD* to use DOS...and, yes, I DO know something about that as I've been in computing since the TRS-80 Model I era of computing.
The truth of the matter is that it really is poor manners to suggest that people dual boot as the sole answer for things. I certainly don't tell Windows users they need to do that for anything. There should be a hint there, but nooo...
The truth of the matter is that it really is poor manners to suggest that people dual boot as the sole answer for things. I certainly don't tell Windows users they need to do that for anything. There should be a hint there, but nooo...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think its a little silly to demand a company to provide a Linux version of a game on the other side (especially at launch). You can always hold your breath for a year or so for them to be nice enough (and free enough with their time) port it, but...I personally think they have better things they could be spending their time on when it comes to this game. I guess I'm biased though.
Windows users don't dual boot (or get told to) because its clear that they don't need to. If they want to do the things you can do on Linux then they get Linux. If you want to do the things you can do on Windows, get Windows? Seems simple to me.
Windows users don't dual boot (or get told to) because its clear that they don't need to. If they want to do the things you can do on Linux then they get Linux. If you want to do the things you can do on Windows, get Windows? Seems simple to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You missed the point I was trying to make... Your line is the same one they used for Windows users back ages ago. ;-)
And there is no demanding a Linux version, only asking as best as I can see. I certainly didn't demand anything (and offered my services, even, to help make a Linux version possible...)
It's not simple like you describe. You only see it that way. That's your right- but it's not how the world works, nor is it how I see things.
And there is no demanding a Linux version, only asking as best as I can see. I certainly didn't demand anything (and offered my services, even, to help make a Linux version possible...)
It's not simple like you describe. You only see it that way. That's your right- but it's not how the world works, nor is it how I see things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What isn't how the world works? Windows being the dominate, clear, accepted OS if you want to game with a PC for the past so many years, and people being forced to use it if they want to play most games? I'll be honest I'm having trouble understanding any of your posts, but I don't think that has much to do with my own comprehension.
If you have operating system X, and you like game Y, wouldn't you want Y to run on your X?
I do, thats all.
If you have operating system X, and you like game Y, wouldn't you want Y to run on your X?
I do, thats all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fair enough. I just think it gets silly when it reaches the "demanding" phase, or "I'm not buying this game until its Linux!!!11" phase. If they said it was eventually coming out for Linux then I would understand, but...anyways you're right, lets get back on topic
No real 'in-game' demonstration, or demo has been released.
Can't see the real thing -> can't open the wallet.
* You can find Windows online for free. Hell, Windows 7 RC is free right now: Try it out and if you like it, buy it later (or <i>find it online for free somewhere</i>)
* Free anti-virus: $0
* Free firewall, or use the Windows one: $0
* HD Space Used: Maybe 30 GB (OS + software + NS2)
I think that non-Windows users LOVE to sensationalize the virus/malware dangers of using Windows. I use Windows Defender & AVG Free and am fairly careful about what I run on my computer and actually read warnings (I know some people just click 'ok' without reading). Hell, I even have User Account Control disabled. What's my point? I've had <b>zero</b> problems with viruses, <b>zero</b> problems with malware and <b>zero</b> hiccups. I've reformatted <b>zero</b> times so far and am very happy with my system. I'm sure you love Linux but you don't <b>have</b> to go out and buy software to protect your computer if use Windows (because there are many programs out there that do a better job for free), and you don't always have to live in fear that your computer is going to crash at any moment. Also, seeing how you're obviously quite computer literate (that's the minimum requirement to use Linux on a regular basis) I doubt you're really at risk of running some shady program that brings your computer to its knees in the first place.
I agree with you that it's <i>kinda</i> rude to tell someone to dual boot just to run one program but.. it's a harsh truth. You either run an emulator in Linux or you dual boot- or you wait for a Linux version. Sorry.
EDIT: I haven't preordered yet because I haven't seen in-game video. I've seen mockups, get giddy about every update and believe the devs released in-engine screenshots on Halloween but without something more concrete like the game actually working comes along, I'll stay skeptical. It's a hell of an undertaking, writing game code, netcode, etc. and I think UWE is doing their best but will NS2 be the GOTY in 2010 or 2014?
For ######'s sake. That's exactly how this works - if you want to play Uncharted 2, you buy a PS3. You don't whine about how Uncharted isn't multiplatform, you get the proper hardware if playing it is important enough to you to warrant the expense. Same with PC gaming. I want to play TF2, therefore I purchased Windows to dual boot on my Macbook. Would I like to see Valve support Mac OS? Of course, but at the same time I recognize that as of right now, <i>I need to install Windows to play the games I want to play.</i> Certain apps are only available for certain OS's - thats just the way software development goes, and being a Linux user doesn't make you special, it just means even less software is going to be compatible - which for most people is an even stronger argument for dual booting.
Just to be clear, this isn't an argument for pre-ordering or not. I'm not going to personally until there is a solid release date and reasons to believe that date won't slip.