<!--quoteo(post=1748783:date=Jan 23 2010, 09:36 PM:name=CyberMantis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyberMantis @ Jan 23 2010, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its a really bad gimmick...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because you don't understand what it's used for doesn't mean it's useless. Colour balance is a pretty big deal in terms of both aesthetics and gameplay, and colour correction is thus an invaluable tool in modern game engines. Or, in your own words...
<!--quoteo(post=1748783:date=Jan 23 2010, 09:36 PM:name=CyberMantis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyberMantis @ Jan 23 2010, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like having proper color balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think all three of Color Balance, Brightness and Contrast adjustments possibilities are quite a nice feature and will be useful if used in very little dose and with tact.
To be honest, Half-life 2 has color_balance that was not utilized, A fatastic example of this working very well in game is Fake Factories Cinematic Mod for HL2 and the Episodes. <a href="http://cinematicmod.com/cm_10.php" target="_blank">http://cinematicmod.com/cm_10.php</a> < You need a bloody good graphics card and lots of RAM!
I have tested out color balance in Teamfortress 2 making some color profiles, Source engine has a good in game GUI where you can add different layers - Contrast, Color, Saturation etc. Although I made some nice photo realistic scenes with some drastic lighting effects, this just did not work for the nature of TF2 regaurdless as pretty as it looked.
Even though I posted some screenshots, The color correction brought in to NS2 does not do much for the game at all. It already looks good and this new tool so easily makes it look bad. It's okay for the slightest of tint (and i mean a tiny adjustment) to give a room a slight cold look (Ice/Lunar/dark) or warm look (Smelting Rooms) for a more amber color overall.
Setting contrast to 0.01 get's rid of the fog, for me thats good cause I hate that fog that is in NS2 being everywhere so can have some rooms without that mist.
The latest Unreal Engine employed some amazing colour grading and customisable features to game lighting which make it look amazing. Every game which uses UE3 uses it, you will not see a game with out tweaked lighting on the Unreal 3 Engine.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
i hope that the colour gradient is used by the game when it transitions from marines to alien territory - going from a clean/light blue look to a grungy orange.
i suppose that means the lights will change too - i wonder how the dual lighting is going to work :S and also how are things going to flash red when RTs in that room are under attack, the lights will have to be tied to the RTs somehow
Here screens of my recent project (thx to last fix). It's a huge map with mines. I have began by a cool idea of cavern with a lava river. (infestation texture... ^^ hum)
I can't really test with light because of ram, however, I have try to get a good atmosphere. (Models of rocks can be out of map on screens, but it's fixed on last change. The stone floor is wanted enough simple for the moment).
<!--quoteo(post=1748783:date=Jan 23 2010, 10:36 AM:name=CyberMantis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyberMantis @ Jan 23 2010, 10:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thats not very nice. Look what happens to games or movies when you use color grading like an amateur: <a href="http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/808/808266/resident-evil-5-20070726113942790.jpg" target="_blank">http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/...26113942790.jpg</a> <a href="http://www6.incrysis.com/screenshots/naturefinalobn9.jpg" target="_blank">http://www6.incrysis.com/screenshots/naturefinalobn9.jpg</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg...feature=related</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaskolmE944&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaskolmE944...feature=related</a>
Color grading works for making static scenes look nice for screenshots but otherwise it looks awful. I get the color shift, that can be a neat effect like when entering a room or something to give it a slight change in look but not to turn the whole thing blue (eg: the video clips I provided). Unfortunately much of the time these image effects look awful because they are static and they are overdone. Sorry, I like having more than 256 colors on my screen, and I like having proper color balance. Its a really bad gimmick... people are so used to relatively good looking images that when they see these amateur color balance mistakes they think its cool when its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We used the color grading feature of the engine on our <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">teaser video</a>. I don't think it looks gimmicky there.
Calling color grading gimmicky is like calling... well, it is calling the color Red gimmicky. Any flexible feature like color grading can be abused. Just look at HDR and Bloom these days. Jeez.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
edited January 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1749173:date=Jan 25 2010, 07:25 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Jan 25 2010, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749173"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We used the color grading feature of the engine on our <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">teaser video</a>. I don't think it looks gimmicky there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As long as its subtle it isn't an issue- its when people who don't know any better see the feature and use it because its there rather than because they should. When used excessively and consistently its a gimmick, I have no problem if its used here and there and it doesn't stand out. I am a little concerned that it will be used to artificially boost the contrast though... as someone mentioned you can cut the haze and do other global changes... I dont want some map maker using a 100 dollar walmart tv screen to determine how the game should look for me. See the concern now? It likely won't be an issue for a while, but by having this feature the floodgates have been opened. This is the way it goes with empowering the laymen, but still. Maybe you guys could contribute guidelines for usage, eg: recommendations for when and to what degree to use this effect?
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1749176:date=Jan 25 2010, 07:45 PM:name=WatchMaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WatchMaker @ Jan 25 2010, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749176"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Calling color grading gimmicky is like calling... well, it is calling the color Red gimmicky. Any flexible feature like color grading can be abused. Just look at HDR and Bloom these days. Jeez.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> well yes those are the worst offenders. I just made a post above, check it out.
<!--quoteo(post=1749146:date=Jan 25 2010, 08:52 PM:name=Mikplayeur)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mikplayeur @ Jan 25 2010, 08:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749146"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here screens of my recent project (thx to last fix). It's a huge map with mines. I have began by a cool idea of cavern with a lava river. (infestation texture... ^^ hum)
I can't really test with light because of ram, however, I have try to get a good atmosphere. (Models of rocks can be out of map on screens, but it's fixed on last change. The stone floor is wanted enough simple for the moment).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1749229:date=Jan 26 2010, 02:23 PM:name=killkrazy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killkrazy @ Jan 26 2010, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->someone needs to create a browsable wiki-type area of people's screens and projects which shows newest entries on top and has commenting :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Great idea. Any chance we can usurp a part of <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Main_Page" target="_blank">Official Wiki</a>?
Found this new blog today that asks some really good game and level design questions. (scroll down to get to the level design bits). good reading all around though. <a href="http://designreboot.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://designreboot.blogspot.com/</a>
I don't mean to advertise or anything, but if you're looking for somewhere to talk about mapping may I suggest the following:
<a href="http://ns2devs.com" target="_blank">NS2Devs</a> is an ambitious community with few members so far, but a great forum for people that are interested in mapping for NS2. If they want to learn, collaborate, share their thoughts and screenshots (or just lurking :)), there you'll find the possibilities. Also there's an alright gallery function there, and a download database where you can include map files and prefabs.
Personally I haven't used the gallery yet, as I just post all the images I want feedback on in my own map thread.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1749454:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:15 PM:name=Norton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Norton @ Jan 27 2010, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice pics Pipi. Is it just me or is it a little hazy like a dream sequence? Regardless, it looks good!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I noticed that too, someone likes their bloom
Yeah there is bloom effect but just a bit, I don't think I've over-used it.
Coming with more pics by the end of the day, I'm in a composing streak right now, modifying some original textures on the path to get a nice feeling of the next room (connected to this one)
Yeah there is bloom effect but just a bit, I don't think I've over-used it.
Coming with more pics by the end of the day, I'm in a composing streak right now, modifying some original textures on the path to get a nice feeling of the next room (connected to this one)
Thanks all :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you did ;) Bloom feels like watching an early 70s tv show. Just throw in some glitter and you'll get it spot on.
Seeing if colour grading is good for something. You can't see it in the picture - too bummed to make a comparison shot - but it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
Comments
Just because you don't understand what it's used for doesn't mean it's useless. Colour balance is a pretty big deal in terms of both aesthetics and gameplay, and colour correction is thus an invaluable tool in modern game engines. Or, in your own words...
<!--quoteo(post=1748783:date=Jan 23 2010, 09:36 PM:name=CyberMantis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyberMantis @ Jan 23 2010, 09:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1748783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like having proper color balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://cinematicmod.com/cm_10.php" target="_blank">http://cinematicmod.com/cm_10.php</a> < You need a bloody good graphics card and lots of RAM!
I have tested out color balance in Teamfortress 2 making some color profiles, Source engine has a good in game GUI where you can add different layers - Contrast, Color, Saturation etc.
Although I made some nice photo realistic scenes with some drastic lighting effects, this just did not work for the nature of TF2 regaurdless as pretty as it looked.
Even though I posted some screenshots, The color correction brought in to NS2 does not do much for the game at all.
It already looks good and this new tool so easily makes it look bad.
It's okay for the slightest of tint (and i mean a tiny adjustment) to give a room a slight cold look (Ice/Lunar/dark) or warm look (Smelting Rooms) for a more amber color overall.
Setting contrast to 0.01 get's rid of the fog, for me thats good cause I hate that fog that is in NS2 being everywhere so can have some rooms without that mist.
i suppose that means the lights will change too - i wonder how the dual lighting is going to work :S and also how are things going to flash red when RTs in that room are under attack, the lights will have to be tied to the RTs somehow
I can't really test with light because of ram, however, I have try to get a good atmosphere. (Models of rocks can be out of map on screens, but it's fixed on last change. The stone floor is wanted enough simple for the moment).
<img src="http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2872/mickmines14.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7530/mickmines16.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9049/mickmines17.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5633/mickmines19.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3966/mickmines20.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9641/mickmines21.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<a href="http://mikplayer.free.fr/NS2Maps/Mines/" target="_blank">... Others pictures ...</a>
<img src="http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9788/nsevaremake.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comparison shot from NS:
<img src="http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1252/nsevarrbeta30013.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That's a very old screenshot. I'll try to find a newer one when I post an update.
<a href="http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/808/808266/resident-evil-5-20070726113942790.jpg" target="_blank">http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/...26113942790.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www6.incrysis.com/screenshots/naturefinalobn9.jpg" target="_blank">http://www6.incrysis.com/screenshots/naturefinalobn9.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg...feature=related</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaskolmE944&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaskolmE944...feature=related</a>
Color grading works for making static scenes look nice for screenshots but otherwise it looks awful. I get the color shift, that can be a neat effect like when entering a room or something to give it a slight change in look but not to turn the whole thing blue (eg: the video clips I provided). Unfortunately much of the time these image effects look awful because they are static and they are overdone. Sorry, I like having more than 256 colors on my screen, and I like having proper color balance. Its a really bad gimmick... people are so used to relatively good looking images that when they see these amateur color balance mistakes they think its cool when its not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We used the color grading feature of the engine on our <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">teaser video</a>. I don't think it looks gimmicky there.
As long as its subtle it isn't an issue- its when people who don't know any better see the feature and use it because its there rather than because they should. When used excessively and consistently its a gimmick, I have no problem if its used here and there and it doesn't stand out. I am a little concerned that it will be used to artificially boost the contrast though... as someone mentioned you can cut the haze and do other global changes... I dont want some map maker using a 100 dollar walmart tv screen to determine how the game should look for me. See the concern now? It likely won't be an issue for a while, but by having this feature the floodgates have been opened. This is the way it goes with empowering the laymen, but still. Maybe you guys could contribute guidelines for usage, eg: recommendations for when and to what degree to use this effect?
well yes those are the worst offenders. I just made a post above, check it out.
I can't really test with light because of ram, however, I have try to get a good atmosphere. (Models of rocks can be out of map on screens, but it's fixed on last change. The stone floor is wanted enough simple for the moment).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Interesting i must say
sorry, thread is derailing.
someone needs to create a browsable wiki-type area of people's screens and projects which shows newest entries on top and has commenting :)
Great idea. Any chance we can usurp a part of <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Main_Page" target="_blank">Official Wiki</a>?
maybe a mappingforum?
don´t hurt, just asking *g*
cu qms
maybe a mappingforum?
don´t hurt, just asking *g*
cu qms<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed
<a href="http://designreboot.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://designreboot.blogspot.com/</a>
<a href="http://ns2devs.com" target="_blank">NS2Devs</a> is an ambitious community with few members so far, but a great forum for people that are interested in mapping for NS2. If they want to learn, collaborate, share their thoughts and screenshots (or just lurking :)), there you'll find the possibilities. Also there's an alright gallery function there, and a download database where you can include map files and prefabs.
Personally I haven't used the gallery yet, as I just post all the images I want feedback on in my own map thread.
<img src="http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/1481/nsq26.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/325/nsq27.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I noticed that too, someone likes their bloom
Yeah there is bloom effect but just a bit, I don't think I've over-used it.
Coming with more pics by the end of the day, I'm in a composing streak right now, modifying some original textures on the path to get a nice feeling of the next room (connected to this one)
Thanks all :)
Yeah there is bloom effect but just a bit, I don't think I've over-used it.
Coming with more pics by the end of the day, I'm in a composing streak right now, modifying some original textures on the path to get a nice feeling of the next room (connected to this one)
Thanks all :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you did ;) Bloom feels like watching an early 70s tv show. Just throw in some glitter and you'll get it spot on.
Seeing if colour grading is good for something. You can't see it in the picture - too bummed to make a comparison shot - but it is.
Seeing if colour grading is good for something. You can't see it in the picture - too bummed to make a comparison shot - but it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
Just for you CyberMantis ! ;)
<img src="http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1336/nsq29.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4647/nsq30.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->IT BEGINS<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->