<!--quoteo(post=1753138:date=Feb 14 2010, 12:57 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Feb 14 2010, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It does look great. Bit dark and cramped perhaps, but we'll see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I thought so too. I think I'll add some lights on the beams where some of the wires run. I thought that if UWE still make that when aliens have control of a room it disables some of the electrical system and when it is back in the marines control the power goes back up, those light could be scripted that way.
The way the lightning is now is more alien oriented I think.
I find it funny how so many people bark at the developers as if they are not "performing" well enough. Yet, they're working hard to build tools so that a community can make the game it wants.
This thread is just awesome cause it shows the real brute force that this community brings in terms of producing content.
Great talent, and I just can't way to play these maps.
as always i just cant understand how you do this, i suppose i am more of a programmer than artist but do you guys draw a wee sketch or something before you design?
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1753300:date=Feb 15 2010, 09:16 PM:name=KhazModan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KhazModan @ Feb 15 2010, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as always i just cant understand how you do this, i suppose i am more of a programmer than artist but do you guys draw a wee sketch or something before you design?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's best to start off with a rough design of what you want your level to look like. Most of the time though I just put things together and see how they turn out.
Just focus on one simple feature ie. A set of pipes, a stairway, a ramp room and expand from there with a theme in mind. Clean lab, grunge, busy, simple, well-lit, spot-light etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1753300:date=Feb 15 2010, 11:16 PM:name=KhazModan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KhazModan @ Feb 15 2010, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753300"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as always i just cant understand how you do this, i suppose i am more of a programmer than artist but do you guys draw a wee sketch or something before you design?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Depends on the level, really. There's pure improvisation (just drag things around and hope it works), there are rough ideas (everything I posted, per se), and on the higher level you do a design document, plan everything to the tee (this is what UW does).
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
for now I'm just improvising and getting used to using the editor. When there are more details on how the gameplay will be, and map limitations/requirements, I'll sketch out some basic layouts. I'm sure thats how lot of people are doing it right now.
Hey guys, really could use some feedback here. This is my marine start (Iridium Extraction) based upon a refinery extraction core on my map. This is roughly 2/3rds done with the room, and opposite of the pictures i'm taking will be primary extraction equipment, hence the piping, there will be lava flows under the tram/etc. I'd really appreciate some feedback. I've pretty much just shown this to a few people and need more eyes. ALL CRITICISM WELCOME! THANKS!
Also, because im willing to bet it'll get mentioned, some lightsource props haven't been placed and minor tweaks to lighting height and location in the well-lit area still need to get done. I'm workin on it. :)
It's very busy and colourful. Only problem I see is the node is in a silly place, it's not very easy to get to, not accessible and is in a tiny dwarfed area compared to the rest of the scene.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited February 2010
Yes, I agree with the res node thing. Please don't make a beautiful map with ###### gameplay :p
Anyway, I like it very much, but I'd love to read an offical comment about this picture, wether the amount of lights and props may be a tad too much already regarding performance and sys. requirements.
i think all marine starts should be like that. easy for marines to defend hard obstacles etc for skulks and so on to attack.
also thanks for the tips guys i will give it a go :S probably create a room with a corridor and a vent like ive dont countless times already and then get stuck^^
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's very busy and colourful. Only problem I see is the node is in a silly place, it's not very easy to get to, not accessible and is in a tiny dwarfed area compared to the rest of the scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The primary reason it's in a recessed area is it's a free node/base node for the MS. I have however, been considering extending the pathway UNDERNEATH the tram using a catwalk to create a second entrance to the node. I'll have to see how it turns out once i polish up the right side of the Tram.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, I agree with the res node thing. Please don't make a beautiful map with ###### gameplay :p
Anyway, I like it very much, but I'd love to read an offical comment about this picture, wether the amount of lights and props may be a tad too much already regarding performance and sys. requirements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you! I'd just like to clear everyones worries up and know that when I map I create gameplay situations first, and extend my detail beyond that. A pretty map that's dull in terms of gameplay just defaults to dull overall, imo.
Also, a large portion of the map is actually my creating brushes. Props definitely are accented, but a large majority of the walls and structures are near pure textured brushes to try to find a balance of prop and brush work.
I'm not even sure if dev's view this, but a comment in regards to the above would also help ME continue to build this level. :)
It's good. But very busy and washed out. The brighter sections should be toned down, as it's washing everything out and doesn't blend very well with the orange. I use 60,60,60 with an intensity and radius to suit. The area itself is huge and the amount of detail you've crammed in just makes the eyes go loopy, you have nothing to focus on because everywhere you look there's something to distract. I'd actually suggest to strip half of it and make specific areas detailed for easier focus points. The floor for example should never be busy as that is your base for the map and should always be easy to focus on. Yours at the moment has more detail on it than some other peoples walls. I'd just suggest simplify. You don't have to use every prop and texture the tools provide just because you can.
<!--quoteo(post=1753632:date=Feb 17 2010, 09:16 AM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Feb 17 2010, 09:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753632"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's good. But very busy and washed out. The brighter sections should be toned down, as it's washing everything out and doesn't blend very well with the orange. I use 60,60,60 with an intensity and radius to suit. The area itself is huge and the amount of detail you've crammed in just makes the eyes go loopy, you have nothing to focus on because everywhere you look there's something to distract. I'd actually suggest to strip half of it and make specific areas detailed for easier focus points. The floor for example should never be busy as that is your base for the map and should always be easy to focus on. Yours at the moment has more detail on it than some other peoples walls. I'd just suggest simplify. You don't have to use every prop and texture the tools provide just because you can.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the feeds dux. I have a natural style of making high busy detail. It's kind of a personal stamp, but i will work on trying to reduce a little. Could you explain in detail what you mean by it being washed out due to lighting? An example? Are you suggesting i create more gap of light between sources? Sorry, im just not clear what you mean here. And lol, i happen to think orange and a light yellow go very well together as a natural "industrial" lighting scheme, hence the use and few use of white lighting.
I'll take head of the floor detail for sure. It's a pet peave of mine to have boring floors however. Especially with combat in NS has ground focus with most aliens being smaller than the marines.
Most of my identifying comes in geometry or primed locations such as this rooms tram, the refinery portion im building behind, etc. My interpretation using scaling of the models make this room seem large yes, but not huge. Am i wrong? The current scape is about 75% of the rooms playable walking area. I want to hear if that's the right size for a tech room, from someone who is more away of dimensions, as all i have to go off is models and imagination.
Gameplaywise, the command station is too close to a door. The room is a bit big for skulks to hide and many corners to do so too. RT is far and isolated. Lightning is a bit confusing. It doesn't seem to be very commander-friendly.
All little things that doesn't seem to make a good marine start room. But that's just my opinion and I may be wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=1753642:date=Feb 17 2010, 09:55 AM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ Feb 17 2010, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gameplaywise, the command station is too close to a door. The room is a bit big for skulks to hide and many corners to do so too. RT is far and isolated. Lightning is a bit confusing. It doesn't seem to be very commander-friendly.
All little things that doesn't seem to make a good marine start room. But that's just my opinion and I may be wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To clarify, the two doors in the screenshots are inoperable doors. The CC is nestled in the back, and the primary building platform for the buildings will be the first level of the area below it. To the immediate left is the res node, so you'd be in viewable distance of the res tower while in the "Main Base"
Also, the ceiling as great vantage for skulks as well as the "pit" under neath the tram as well that will wrap a bit around where lava flows are for more skulk ambush, and naturally, the varying height of the room allows for corner hiding and lerk use.
In the first two shots that yellow light is quite harsh and murky looking when cast on those textures. My first instinct would be to try increasing the luminance and/or reducing the saturation a little.
I would add some lights to those wall sections around the res node. A spotlight pointing upwards/downwards is one way to bring out the detail in the meshes and can also make things look quite dramatic and imposing (like the classic way of telling ghost stories by casting a flashlight beam across your face)
I think your room looks perfect Cyanide, don't listen to the haters. Too much detail? Only if it runs poorly, otherwise it isn't too busy for me. As a personal thing I don't really like yellow lights much, but they don't bother me. Can't wait to see the completed map.
He just specifically asked for criticism. I've pointed out what I thought was bad about the room but it's not like everything was bad. I just did not mention anything about the good points.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1753647:date=Feb 17 2010, 06:12 PM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Feb 17 2010, 06:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To clarify, the two doors in the screenshots are inoperable doors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You should consider though, since you have to clarify, that it isn't very clear with those doors. Disable the bright lights nearby the doors, don't show players that this might be another route.
There was an offical statement once regarding ns_nancy afaik about the doors and how some are usable and some aren't, which confused new players.
Just wondering what other people's experiences are with the editor - I downloaded a map someone posted a while ago, but it still takes several seconds to render in the editor, and moving around is quite (at times very) clunky.
I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that the sort of framerate we see in the editor will be near-as-dammit the speed we'd see in actual gameplay.
While i'm not on a "fast" system, it's a P4 3.4Ghz, 1Gb RAM and an ATI 4670 gfx card.
<!--quoteo(post=1753675:date=Feb 17 2010, 06:18 PM:name=Norton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Norton @ Feb 17 2010, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think your room looks perfect Cyanide, don't listen to the haters. Too much detail? Only if it runs poorly, otherwise it isn't too busy for me. As a personal thing I don't really like yellow lights much, but they don't bother me. Can't wait to see the completed map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not any one hating.
I believe Cyanide is aiming to create a level towards official NS2 level submission from the community, so all the feedback will be of benefit. Considering one of the development team replied with constructive criticism on how to gear the level more towards what we need to see, it would be prudent to take such advice.
<!--quoteo(post=1753682:date=Feb 17 2010, 01:05 PM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Feb 17 2010, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753682"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You should consider though, since you have to clarify, that it isn't very clear with those doors. Disable the bright lights nearby the doors, don't show players that this might be another route.
There was an offical statement once regarding ns_nancy afaik about the doors and how some are usable and some aren't, which confused new players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the feedback. The current plan is to have a buddy of mine create a texture that appears like a hologram that can be "floating a half a foot" in front of the door with a clear indication that this door is out of service, not usable. Most likely a primary blue hologram. As opposed to not lighting the door. :)
Comments
Yeah I thought so too. I think I'll add some lights on the beams where some of the wires run. I thought that if UWE still make that when aliens have control of a room it disables some of the electrical system and when it is back in the marines control the power goes back up, those light could be scripted that way.
The way the lightning is now is more alien oriented I think.
<img src="http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2986/ukchaos01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/848/resnode.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This thread is just awesome cause it shows the real brute force that this community brings in terms of producing content.
Great talent, and I just can't way to play these maps.
It's best to start off with a rough design of what you want your level to look like. Most of the time though I just put things together and see how they turn out.
Depends on the level, really. There's pure improvisation (just drag things around and hope it works), there are rough ideas (everything I posted, per se), and on the higher level you do a design document, plan everything to the tee (this is what UW does).
<img src="http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5376/nsq51.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/ns2_map05.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/ns2_map06.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/yGLm5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/XBEP6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/24LAg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/tcnXP.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/EMCfc.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/s1qes.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://imgur.com/lyUSq.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also, because im willing to bet it'll get mentioned, some lightsource props haven't been placed and minor tweaks to lighting height and location in the well-lit area still need to get done. I'm workin on it. :)
Please don't make a beautiful map with ###### gameplay :p
Anyway, I like it very much, but I'd love to read an offical comment about this picture, wether the amount of lights and props may be a tad too much already regarding performance and sys. requirements.
also thanks for the tips guys i will give it a go :S probably create a room with a corridor and a vent like ive dont countless times already and then get stuck^^
The primary reason it's in a recessed area is it's a free node/base node for the MS. I have however, been considering extending the pathway UNDERNEATH the tram using a catwalk to create a second entrance to the node. I'll have to see how it turns out once i polish up the right side of the Tram.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, I agree with the res node thing.
Please don't make a beautiful map with ###### gameplay :p
Anyway, I like it very much, but I'd love to read an offical comment about this picture, wether the amount of lights and props may be a tad too much already regarding performance and sys. requirements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you! I'd just like to clear everyones worries up and know that when I map I create gameplay situations first, and extend my detail beyond that. A pretty map that's dull in terms of gameplay just defaults to dull overall, imo.
Also, a large portion of the map is actually my creating brushes. Props definitely are accented, but a large majority of the walls and structures are near pure textured brushes to try to find a balance of prop and brush work.
I'm not even sure if dev's view this, but a comment in regards to the above would also help ME continue to build this level. :)
Thanks for the feeds dux. I have a natural style of making high busy detail. It's kind of a personal stamp, but i will work on trying to reduce a little. Could you explain in detail what you mean by it being washed out due to lighting? An example? Are you suggesting i create more gap of light between sources? Sorry, im just not clear what you mean here. And lol, i happen to think orange and a light yellow go very well together as a natural "industrial" lighting scheme, hence the use and few use of white lighting.
I'll take head of the floor detail for sure. It's a pet peave of mine to have boring floors however. Especially with combat in NS has ground focus with most aliens being smaller than the marines.
Most of my identifying comes in geometry or primed locations such as this rooms tram, the refinery portion im building behind, etc. My interpretation using scaling of the models make this room seem large yes, but not huge. Am i wrong? The current scape is about 75% of the rooms playable walking area. I want to hear if that's the right size for a tech room, from someone who is more away of dimensions, as all i have to go off is models and imagination.
Thanks again.
All little things that doesn't seem to make a good marine start room. But that's just my opinion and I may be wrong.
All little things that doesn't seem to make a good marine start room. But that's just my opinion and I may be wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To clarify, the two doors in the screenshots are inoperable doors. The CC is nestled in the back, and the primary building platform for the buildings will be the first level of the area below it. To the immediate left is the res node, so you'd be in viewable distance of the res tower while in the "Main Base"
Also, the ceiling as great vantage for skulks as well as the "pit" under neath the tram as well that will wrap a bit around where lava flows are for more skulk ambush, and naturally, the varying height of the room allows for corner hiding and lerk use.
I would add some lights to those wall sections around the res node. A spotlight pointing upwards/downwards is one way to bring out the detail in the meshes and can also make things look quite dramatic and imposing (like the classic way of telling ghost stories by casting a flashlight beam across your face)
He just specifically asked for criticism. I've pointed out what I thought was bad about the room but it's not like everything was bad. I just did not mention anything about the good points.
You should consider though, since you have to clarify, that it isn't very clear with those doors.
Disable the bright lights nearby the doors, don't show players that this might be another route.
There was an offical statement once regarding ns_nancy afaik about the doors and how some are usable and some aren't, which confused new players.
I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that the sort of framerate we see in the editor will be near-as-dammit the speed we'd see in actual gameplay.
While i'm not on a "fast" system, it's a P4 3.4Ghz, 1Gb RAM and an ATI 4670 gfx card.
It's not any one hating.
I believe Cyanide is aiming to create a level towards official NS2 level submission from the community, so all the feedback will be of benefit. Considering one of the development team replied with constructive criticism on how to gear the level more towards what we need to see, it would be prudent to take such advice.
Disable the bright lights nearby the doors, don't show players that this might be another route.
There was an offical statement once regarding ns_nancy afaik about the doors and how some are usable and some aren't, which confused new players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the feedback. The current plan is to have a buddy of mine create a texture that appears like a hologram that can be "floating a half a foot" in front of the door with a clear indication that this door is out of service, not usable. Most likely a primary blue hologram. As opposed to not lighting the door. :)