<!--quoteo(post=1753690:date=Feb 17 2010, 01:32 PM:name=phoenixbbs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phoenixbbs @ Feb 17 2010, 01:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just wondering what other people's experiences are with the editor - I downloaded a map someone posted a while ago, but it still takes several seconds to render in the editor, and moving around is quite (at times very) clunky.
I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that the sort of framerate we see in the editor will be near-as-dammit the speed we'd see in actual gameplay.
While i'm not on a "fast" system, it's a P4 3.4Ghz, 1Gb RAM and an ATI 4670 gfx card.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The editor is definitely not a complete representation of framerate in game. There's culling and a magnitude of different variables that increase performance in game. I'm running a 4.0 C2D 4870X2 1gb and my framerate is pretty damn bad in the editor at times. Like 5fps.
5 series cards perform better than 4 series cards in Spark, by far. I ruined my 4870 with liquid damage and bought a cheapo 5770 which is slightly worse in reviews than the 4870 by a margin.
Tell me that ain't one sexy recycle bin <a href="http://img641.imageshack.us/i/garbage.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3993/garbage.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<!--quoteo(post=1753726:date=Feb 17 2010, 09:54 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Feb 17 2010, 09:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think that recycle bin would actually hold anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why ? it's for small waste like paper and stuff in staff room.
<!--quoteo(post=1753727:date=Feb 17 2010, 10:01 PM:name=Skyforger2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skyforger2 @ Feb 17 2010, 10:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why ? it's for small waste like paper and stuff in staff room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your paper would come out of that bin. That's a pretty big failure there.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The current plan is to have a buddy of mine create a texture that appears like a hologram that can be "floating a half a foot" in front of the door with a clear indication that this door is out of service, not usable. Most likely a primary blue hologram. As opposed to not lighting the door. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a better solution (besides simply not having a door to begin with) is to illuminate all the working doors the same way and shroud the none functional ones in partial darkness. Players are more likely to move towards the door with the glowing hologram over it than a poorly lit one. You should only need to resort to crude signage when the status of the door is dynamic (e.g a door in tf2 will change appearance because its function depends on what team you are on and what points have been captured).
<!--quoteo(post=1753734:date=Feb 17 2010, 05:12 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 17 2010, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753734"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your paper would come out of that bin. That's a pretty big failure there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps it's a theoretical trash bin? Anything thrown "in" is marked as trash, regardless of it falling out or not. I could see some practical application for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1753640:date=Feb 17 2010, 10:49 AM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Feb 17 2010, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the feeds dux. I have a natural style of making high busy detail. It's kind of a personal stamp, but i will work on trying to reduce a little. Could you explain in detail what you mean by it being washed out due to lighting? An example? Are you suggesting i create more gap of light between sources? Sorry, im just not clear what you mean here. And lol, i happen to think orange and a light yellow go very well together as a natural "industrial" lighting scheme, hence the use and few use of white lighting.
I'll take head of the floor detail for sure. It's a pet peave of mine to have boring floors however. Especially with combat in NS has ground focus with most aliens being smaller than the marines.
Most of my identifying comes in geometry or primed locations such as this rooms tram, the refinery portion im building behind, etc. My interpretation using scaling of the models make this room seem large yes, but not huge. Am i wrong? The current scape is about 75% of the rooms playable walking area. I want to hear if that's the right size for a tech room, from someone who is more away of dimensions, as all i have to go off is models and imagination.
The colours of the light are very pale and this look washed out to me. I'd suggest a bit more saturation in their colour. Another thing you might want to look into doing is faking bounce light to prevent "black void shadows" where you create a light, set it's radius to about 600 and it's intensity to around 0.25 - 0.50 all depending on the scale of the room of course. As for the scale of the room, it looks huge. I wouldn't go any bigger than it is now. I always use player starts, skulks and onos as scale markers when building.
<!--quoteo(post=1753852:date=Feb 18 2010, 07:22 AM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Feb 18 2010, 07:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753852"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The colours of the light are very pale and this look washed out to me. I'd suggest a bit more saturation in their colour. Another thing you might want to look into doing is faking bounce light to prevent "black void shadows" where you create a light, set it's radius to about 600 and it's intensity to around 0.25 - 0.50 all depending on the scale of the room of course. As for the scale of the room, it looks huge. I wouldn't go any bigger than it is now. I always use player starts, skulks and onos as scale markers when building.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks dux, i'll tweak the lighting a bit and try that bounce lighting effect. Btw, in terms of scale of room, I side-by-sided the recent alpha footage, and there's a part in the middle with a solo fight against a skulk. The distance from player to the farthest point in the room (through a small doorway at the end) is approximately the same distance viewable from farthest wall to wall in the current room im building, with obstruction in between to prevent a terrible disadvantage for aliens. So I'm PRETTY sure the room size okay if you think it's large but not overbearingly huge at the moment. The room also has an L shape too it in final production, which is hard to show because it's not complete at the moment. But from the pulled out screenshot, the last one, there's expansion on the left a bit, and on the right, however, the right coming towards the camera where the left is going parallel away.
This has definitely helped in grasping the feel for the rooms and size. I've been using the alien models as guides as well. Once I complete the rest of the room i'll post updated screenshots with the tweaks mentioned for more feedback.
As an official mapper, the only question I have is that pending the lighting tweaks, is there anything preventing this from being a start to an official submission?
Very daring creation Cyanide as the gameplay is unknown. Hope it dont go to waste. I think lights are a bit too orange. Alternate Intensity and a slight color variation in rows of lights to break up blocks of color.
I've kinda been told to follow suit with NS1 gameplay sans a few tweaks like door size, no ladders for aliens, siege cannon mobility, etc.
And ultimately that's about the best I think we can do without a playable copy in our hands. I'll try your technique about breaking up the light hardness. Thanks!
<!--quoteo(post=1753856:date=Feb 18 2010, 09:24 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Feb 18 2010, 09:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... as the gameplay is unknown. Hope it dont go to waste.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think we're all on the same boat for that.
Cool stuff there. At first, I thought the room would be useless but if you can get a vent to go there and make it a siege spot for a tech room or main hive that would be epic.
Again, looks a lot like a box with stuff put into it. Realistic, but not exciting... Doing something with the ceiling and some of the walls could help.
<!--quoteo(post=1753874:date=Feb 18 2010, 04:41 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Feb 18 2010, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, looks a lot like a box with stuff put into it. Realistic, but not exciting... Doing something with the ceiling and some of the walls could help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i repost my pictures. ceiling looks a bit empty but i aim more for realism.
<!--quoteo(post=1753580:date=Feb 17 2010, 05:44 AM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Feb 17 2010, 05:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has to be said, your map is showing just how wonderfully capable the Spark engine really is. There is so much detail, your map looks brilliant.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thx ! i know at least somebody sees the big greatness in my work.
<!--quoteo(post=1753874:date=Feb 18 2010, 04:41 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Feb 18 2010, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again, looks a lot like a box with stuff put into it. Realistic, but not exciting... Doing something with the ceiling and some of the walls could help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a lot of games the ceilings are bare and plain. Why? It focuses the player on eye level height.
<!--quoteo(post=1753894:date=Feb 18 2010, 02:04 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 18 2010, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a lot of games the ceilings are bare and plain. Why? It focuses the player on eye level height.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya but in NS you'll be looking at the ceiling much more often than any other games, especially on marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1753893:date=Feb 18 2010, 08:03 PM:name=Skyforger2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skyforger2 @ Feb 18 2010, 08:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thx ! i know at least somebody sees the big greatness in my work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately he was referring to Cyanide's work...
<!--quoteo(post=1753900:date=Feb 18 2010, 07:23 PM:name=Pipi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pipi @ Feb 18 2010, 07:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ya but in NS you'll be looking at the ceiling much more often than any other games, especially on marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It still needs to be simple, if it's all glitzy, all singing all dancing and looks like another wall. You'll confuse the crap out of the focus of the game.
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1753854:date=Feb 18 2010, 01:55 PM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Feb 18 2010, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As an official mapper, the only question I have is that pending the lighting tweaks, is there anything preventing this from being a start to an official submission?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's worth being a bit more sparing with the prop detail. To take an example, I think the res node area could probably be simplified somewhat. I think there's so much going on around the walls that it's a little hard for the eye to know what to focus on. You've got two bumpy wall props stacked on top of each other - maybe just keep the lower one and have a flat wall on top of it. In that section I think it would also help to light up the floor around the node some more.
You're off to a good start though. I realise it's not easy at this point to know precisely what to aim for when it comes to the look and feel of an official map, since you've only seen a few glimpses so far.
<!--quoteo(post=1753894:date=Feb 18 2010, 07:04 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Feb 18 2010, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a lot of games the ceilings are bare and plain. Why? It focuses the player on eye level height.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think players will naturally look forward due to the way the camera works. Unless you really go out of your way to make the "cistine chapel" of natural selection levels it shouldnt be a problem.
Comments
I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that the sort of framerate we see in the editor will be near-as-dammit the speed we'd see in actual gameplay.
While i'm not on a "fast" system, it's a P4 3.4Ghz, 1Gb RAM and an ATI 4670 gfx card.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The editor is definitely not a complete representation of framerate in game. There's culling and a magnitude of different variables that increase performance in game. I'm running a 4.0 C2D 4870X2 1gb and my framerate is pretty damn bad in the editor at times. Like 5fps.
<a href="http://img641.imageshack.us/i/garbage.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3993/garbage.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Why ? it's for small waste like paper and stuff in staff room.
Your paper would come out of that bin. That's a pretty big failure there.
I think a better solution (besides simply not having a door to begin with) is to illuminate all the working doors the same way and shroud the none functional ones in partial darkness. Players are more likely to move towards the door with the glowing hologram over it than a poorly lit one. You should only need to resort to crude signage when the status of the door is dynamic (e.g a door in tf2 will change appearance because its function depends on what team you are on and what points have been captured).
Perhaps it's a theoretical trash bin? Anything thrown "in" is marked as trash, regardless of it falling out or not. I could see some practical application for it.
I'll take head of the floor detail for sure. It's a pet peave of mine to have boring floors however. Especially with combat in NS has ground focus with most aliens being smaller than the marines.
Most of my identifying comes in geometry or primed locations such as this rooms tram, the refinery portion im building behind, etc. My interpretation using scaling of the models make this room seem large yes, but not huge. Am i wrong? The current scape is about 75% of the rooms playable walking area. I want to hear if that's the right size for a tech room, from someone who is more away of dimensions, as all i have to go off is models and imagination.
Thanks again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The colours of the light are very pale and this look washed out to me. I'd suggest a bit more saturation in their colour. Another thing you might want to look into doing is faking bounce light to prevent "black void shadows" where you create a light, set it's radius to about 600 and it's intensity to around 0.25 - 0.50 all depending on the scale of the room of course. As for the scale of the room, it looks huge. I wouldn't go any bigger than it is now. I always use player starts, skulks and onos as scale markers when building.
Thanks dux, i'll tweak the lighting a bit and try that bounce lighting effect. Btw, in terms of scale of room, I side-by-sided the recent alpha footage, and there's a part in the middle with a solo fight against a skulk. The distance from player to the farthest point in the room (through a small doorway at the end) is approximately the same distance viewable from farthest wall to wall in the current room im building, with obstruction in between to prevent a terrible disadvantage for aliens. So I'm PRETTY sure the room size okay if you think it's large but not overbearingly huge at the moment. The room also has an L shape too it in final production, which is hard to show because it's not complete at the moment. But from the pulled out screenshot, the last one, there's expansion on the left a bit, and on the right, however, the right coming towards the camera where the left is going parallel away.
This has definitely helped in grasping the feel for the rooms and size. I've been using the alien models as guides as well. Once I complete the rest of the room i'll post updated screenshots with the tweaks mentioned for more feedback.
As an official mapper, the only question I have is that pending the lighting tweaks, is there anything preventing this from being a start to an official submission?
ZaP
<img src="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/online-gaming/ns2_map07.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Ahhh
Very daring creation Cyanide as the gameplay is unknown. Hope it dont go to waste. I think lights are a bit too orange.
Alternate Intensity and a slight color variation in rows of lights to break up blocks of color.
Looks good - would surely rock if it was some kind of mod where you have to adventure alone through the map with quests.
And ultimately that's about the best I think we can do without a playable copy in our hands. I'll try your technique about breaking up the light hardness. Thanks!
I think we're all on the same boat for that.
Cool stuff there. At first, I thought the room would be useless but if you can get a vent to go there and make it a siege spot for a tech room or main hive that would be epic.
<a href="http://img59.imageshack.us/i/staffroom2.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2058/staffroom2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://img535.imageshack.us/i/staffroom.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2748/staffroom.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
i repost my pictures. ceiling looks a bit empty but i aim more for realism.
<a href="http://img59.imageshack.us/i/staffroom2.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2058/staffroom2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://img535.imageshack.us/i/staffroom.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2748/staffroom.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
It has to be said, your map is showing just how wonderfully capable the Spark engine really is. There is so much detail, your map looks brilliant.
Thx ! i know at least somebody sees the big greatness in my work.
In a lot of games the ceilings are bare and plain. Why? It focuses the player on eye level height.
Ya but in NS you'll be looking at the ceiling much more often than any other games, especially on marines.
Unfortunately he was referring to Cyanide's work...
It still needs to be simple, if it's all glitzy, all singing all dancing and looks like another wall. You'll confuse the crap out of the focus of the game.
I think it's worth being a bit more sparing with the prop detail. To take an example, I think the res node area could probably be simplified somewhat. I think there's so much going on around the walls that it's a little hard for the eye to know what to focus on. You've got two bumpy wall props stacked on top of each other - maybe just keep the lower one and have a flat wall on top of it. In that section I think it would also help to light up the floor around the node some more.
You're off to a good start though. I realise it's not easy at this point to know precisely what to aim for when it comes to the look and feel of an official map, since you've only seen a few glimpses so far.
Good luck with it!
I think players will naturally look forward due to the way the camera works. Unless you really go out of your way to make the "cistine chapel" of natural selection levels it shouldnt be a problem.