<!--quoteo(post=1781548:date=Jul 21 2010, 07:16 PM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Jul 21 2010, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2_Icarus' Cargo tech point really close to finished:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the right-hand side door is not usable, I suggest making it seem more obvious. For instance a red light, sparks or some blocking debris to indicate it's inactive. Other than that, looks cool!
<!--quoteo(post=1781756:date=Jul 22 2010, 09:23 AM:name=perso)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perso @ Jul 22 2010, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the right-hand side door is not usable, I suggest making it seem more obvious. For instance a red light, sparks or some blocking debris to indicate it's inactive. Other than that, looks cool!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Probably a red light would make sense. the door isn't supposed to be damaged, just closed. For effects like sparks etc (I do plan to have a lot in other places) I'm going to have to wait for the editor to support it.
Pretty good editor. Hopefully it'll have more features as it is developed further.
I'd also like more rock props, some to make rounded tunnels would be nice, as well as proper stalactite props. Basically more props that aren't flat.
<!--quoteo(post=1781673:date=Jul 22 2010, 08:53 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jul 22 2010, 08:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->all of these shots look fantastic, but i'm still not seeing any diagonal lifts :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could probably do one of those, but it's a bit bleh from a design standpoint, you can't really put anything else in the room and you need interesting things for it to go past, as well as access for the enemy to harass you on the lift, otherwise it's kinda pointless.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
thats a huge room! i love it :D
for the diagonal lift, i'm thinking it would be a hallway rather than a room :) - kind of like the one in ns_bast that goes from marine spawn to refinery hive.
Why not make a diagonal lift that crosses the map, sort of tram-tunnel style. Call it NS2_lift or something :p Stairs on the side for the rines, bonus points for actually having it follow a corner or something so we get a gorge belly slide racing track :D
The trouble with diagonal lifts is that they have all the problems of a vertical lift, namely that you can't do anything on them and you can't connect anything to them when in motion.
Trams are easier because they are basically just moving sections of a room, they are part of and can interact with everything in the room when in motion, but you can't climb a lift shaft and even if you can, the up/down element kinda messes it up.
A vertical lift should be short or fast moving, you shouldn't keep people on it for long because they're essentially out of the game for the duration.
The best use of a diagonal lift would be putting it overlooking a large room, so that you can still use it as a firing platform while moving. But you could do that with a vertical lift just as well if not better.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2010
I think your image of this diagonal lift is somewhat misinformed, judging from your examples/opinions. You are saying the elevator shaft is close to skintight around the elevator platform? Ifso, look at ns_bast, that part of the Half-Life 1 and not to mention the latest game Alien Swarm. Those all have diagonal lifts, which are very much attackable by aliens.
Not to mention, in the case of ns_bast, the elevator goes right into the alien hive (well at least dangerously close to it). A much faster route then the watery hallway. And you do not want marines near/in your hive building stuff, especially with their new NS2 mobile MASC's coming down on the elevator. It all adds to strategy and not to mention anxiety to stop them, but certainly does not take these marines out of the game.
Another thing about your idea of an open elevator shaft, it kinda defeats the purpose of the claustrophobic feeling the people on the lift get. Not to mention the aliens could attack from anywhere when on a lift using an elevatorshaft (SC makes it even worse)
Having this elevator completely in the open, with a large hall would be quite overpowered I think, in terms of range attackpower vs melee. The Onos and Gorge and maybe the Fade will have a really hard time to counter this unreachable platform of bulletspray... Not to mention the buildings max range, making the useless as well. Think of ns_bast without the hive protective bacteria brushwork, back then you could shoot it from the other side of refinery :D
Now onto your screenshot, that one is quite amazing and really gives a nice feeling of epic scale. But do keep an eye on Gorgy and Oni. They seem to be at a huge disadvantage here, due to the long range and different height levels. Big rooms are hard to balance vs aliens, but more rock props (as you requested) might indeed do the trick.
Here's my first try ever. Dunno how to hide the wire thingies. <img src="http://s3.directupload.net/images/100724/y5ddg3z7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
InsaneAnomalyJoin Date: 2002-05-13Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
BluePhish: Those lights with arrows pointing at them are actually for ambient lighting, and you shouldn't need more than one of them per area. You'd be much better off using simple point lights. You can hide the lights without turning them off by adding them all to a layer and then clicking the "eye" symbol to hide it.
<!--quoteo(post=1782403:date=Jul 24 2010, 01:31 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jul 24 2010, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782403"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think your image of this diagonal lift is somewhat misinformed, judging from your examples/opinions. You are saying the elevator shaft is close to skintight around the elevator platform? Ifso, look at ns_bast, that part of the Half-Life 1 and not to mention the latest game Alien Swarm. Those all have diagonal lifts, which are very much attackable by aliens.
Not to mention, in the case of ns_bast, the elevator goes right into the alien hive (well at least dangerously close to it). A much faster route then the watery hallway. And you do not want marines near/in your hive building stuff, especially with their new NS2 mobile MASC's coming down on the elevator. It all adds to strategy and not to mention anxiety to stop them, but certainly does not take these marines out of the game.
Another thing about your idea of an open elevator shaft, it kinda defeats the purpose of the claustrophobic feeling the people on the lift get. Not to mention the aliens could attack from anywhere when on a lift using an elevatorshaft (SC makes it even worse)
Having this elevator completely in the open, with a large hall would be quite overpowered I think, in terms of range attackpower vs melee. The Onos and Gorge and maybe the Fade will have a really hard time to counter this unreachable platform of bulletspray... Not to mention the buildings max range, making the useless as well. Think of ns_bast without the hive protective bacteria brushwork, back then you could shoot it from the other side of refinery :D
Now onto your screenshot, that one is quite amazing and really gives a nice feeling of epic scale. But do keep an eye on Gorgy and Oni. They seem to be at a huge disadvantage here, due to the long range and different height levels. Big rooms are hard to balance vs aliens, but more rock props (as you requested) might indeed do the trick.
Did I mention it looks awesome? :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know you don't have to encase the elevator entirely, but at best you end up with a staircase/corridor which is still not very good for fighting in. If you close the lift you end up with a box that the marines sit in waiting for it to arrive (pretty much exactly like a real elevator, and just as awkward) and if you don't, well you get something similar anyway but the difference is skulks might drop/run down the shaft and try to kill you, but an open diagonal shaft is basically a corridor and in that case it becomes just as boring as one, you look in either direction and shoot anything that comes in. An elevator shaft by neccesity has to be pretty exposed on at least one side.
The only way I can think of to make a shaft elevator work at all is to make it much wider than the platform and cover the three non-contact sides with things to hide aliens in, but that looks really contrived and is still pretty iffy as far as gameplay goes, enough aliens would make it impossible for the marines to traverse the elevator because they can't go faster than the set speed, so the aliens just keep acid rocketing them or whatever until they die. Conversely marines can camp the top of the shaft and lob grenades down it, or aliens can camp either end and just kill anything that gets off, which is a limitation of all elevators.
Basically elevators suck, don't use them unless you need to. That said I did use one in the cave screenshot because I wanted all aliens to be able to get up onto the catwalks. The whole room is not really very big, or at least it's very busy and full of things so you can't see all of it at once. The overall layout is that there is a central elevator with catwalks surrounding it, the elevator goes to the outside but you can only take it up to the catwalks. Controlling the catwalks gives either side an advantage because marines can fight off the larger aliens from there, while all aliens will benefit from the darker environement. Conversely marines on top will be vulnerable to skulks crossing the very dark ceiling and climbing the very dark walls, as well as lerks inhabiting the same area. Plus if an onos gets on the elevator it would be pretty well protected until it got up to the top, and then the somewhat linear nature of the catwalks would allow it to advance on marines quite nicely. You can see more of the room from the catwalks as well. The lower floors have several divisions which allow flanking behind the enemy, and the central elevated section of floor can probably house a res node or something.
Basically the outer edges are dark and allow flanking with cover, the inner area offers a height advantage and easier visibility, the two should oppose each other nicely.
Besides, the room does have things to hide behind.
Now that our game is finally done at work, I decided to try this engine out. I find for what's implemented so far, we get some pretty good results. Still trying to get used to the Rectangle and Line tool, as they are a bit different, but once you get the hang of it, it ain't that bad. I still prefer 3dsmax, as i can work much faster hehe, but again, the results at the end + no compiling / building, is just great !
Been waiting for NS2 to come out since forever, glad it's coming along well, which is why i had purchased the special edition. Props on the nice work.
Here's a picture of a quick doodle i made this am, a simple corridor.
A sample shot of one from a little while ago with added in particles, lighting and details but not much in the immediete shot. Particles can make a shot, shame mine don't work correctly :<
Well guess I have a few aswell. First room I've been working on, wether it actually makes to something I dont know.
Problems: Dont fancy all my lighting yet. I want it to seem bright but enclosed, which I havnt achived yet.
The floor is not done, merely a replacement as of yet. Need to figure out if I want the room bigger. The marine structures are merely there for size comparison.
If I make it a RT point it's probably too big, if I make it a TP it's probably a little too small. Also need to make a new/one more entrance.
The huge fan goes straight out into open air (and have no seal, which is sort a my plan for where either the marines can get in to start their fight against the Kharaa or the Kharaa got in becuase of some silly janitor not putting a seal on it). With it being into the open it's exposed to the sun, so i wanted a very bright light from it.
Notice in the first image that the rocks/roof are not lit by the "sun/fan-light" but the light merely shines down like a pillar. If you then look at the second picture the light and angle of view makes it bounce off the fan casing and ground to light up the rocks.
Main issue is that the room as general is darker than what I want, but I dont want it to be too bright either. All fans rotate.
You need to fix your textures. Many aren't aligned properly. Also work on improving map geometry. Don't just make everything boxes. Props should enhance geometry, not simply be placed haphazardly.
@KillPo1, also remember to put lights etc in a group / layer and hide them before taking a shot if you're going to take shots in editor. That or open it up in the alpha / engine test (depending which you have).
You've done a reasonable job of disguising that you've got boxes with props in as rooms to be honest, it's a trap I always fall into, try and come up with a non-boxy layout before creating the room. If you start with a box it'll always look a bit like a box.
Also it's a little bit dark in the open areas, maybe an ambient light could help you out, doesn't have to be bright just need to take the edge of that darkness imo.
Comments
If the right-hand side door is not usable, I suggest making it seem more obvious.
For instance a red light, sparks or some blocking debris to indicate it's inactive.
Other than that, looks cool!
For instance a red light, sparks or some blocking debris to indicate it's inactive.
Other than that, looks cool!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably a red light would make sense. the door isn't supposed to be damaged, just closed. For effects like sparks etc (I do plan to have a lot in other places) I'm going to have to wait for the editor to support it.
Pretty good editor. Hopefully it'll have more features as it is developed further.
I'd also like more rock props, some to make rounded tunnels would be nice, as well as proper stalactite props. Basically more props that aren't flat.
<!--quoteo(post=1781673:date=Jul 22 2010, 08:53 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jul 22 2010, 08:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1781673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->all of these shots look fantastic, but i'm still not seeing any diagonal lifts :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could probably do one of those, but it's a bit bleh from a design standpoint, you can't really put anything else in the room and you need interesting things for it to go past, as well as access for the enemy to harass you on the lift, otherwise it's kinda pointless.
for the diagonal lift, i'm thinking it would be a hallway rather than a room :) - kind of like the one in ns_bast that goes from marine spawn to refinery hive.
Trams are easier because they are basically just moving sections of a room, they are part of and can interact with everything in the room when in motion, but you can't climb a lift shaft and even if you can, the up/down element kinda messes it up.
A vertical lift should be short or fast moving, you shouldn't keep people on it for long because they're essentially out of the game for the duration.
The best use of a diagonal lift would be putting it overlooking a large room, so that you can still use it as a firing platform while moving. But you could do that with a vertical lift just as well if not better.
Not to mention, in the case of ns_bast, the elevator goes right into the alien hive (well at least dangerously close to it). A much faster route then the watery hallway. And you do not want marines near/in your hive building stuff, especially with their new NS2 mobile MASC's coming down on the elevator. It all adds to strategy and not to mention anxiety to stop them, but certainly does not take these marines out of the game.
Another thing about your idea of an open elevator shaft, it kinda defeats the purpose of the claustrophobic feeling the people on the lift get. Not to mention the aliens could attack from anywhere when on a lift using an elevatorshaft (SC makes it even worse)
Having this elevator completely in the open, with a large hall would be quite overpowered I think, in terms of range attackpower vs melee. The Onos and Gorge and maybe the Fade will have a really hard time to counter this unreachable platform of bulletspray... Not to mention the buildings max range, making the useless as well. Think of ns_bast without the hive protective bacteria brushwork, back then you could shoot it from the other side of refinery :D
Now onto your screenshot, that one is quite amazing and really gives a nice feeling of epic scale. But do keep an eye on Gorgy and Oni. They seem to be at a huge disadvantage here, due to the long range and different height levels. Big rooms are hard to balance vs aliens, but more rock props (as you requested) might indeed do the trick.
Did I mention it looks awesome? :P
Dunno how to hide the wire thingies.
<img src="http://s3.directupload.net/images/100724/y5ddg3z7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not to mention, in the case of ns_bast, the elevator goes right into the alien hive (well at least dangerously close to it). A much faster route then the watery hallway. And you do not want marines near/in your hive building stuff, especially with their new NS2 mobile MASC's coming down on the elevator. It all adds to strategy and not to mention anxiety to stop them, but certainly does not take these marines out of the game.
Another thing about your idea of an open elevator shaft, it kinda defeats the purpose of the claustrophobic feeling the people on the lift get. Not to mention the aliens could attack from anywhere when on a lift using an elevatorshaft (SC makes it even worse)
Having this elevator completely in the open, with a large hall would be quite overpowered I think, in terms of range attackpower vs melee. The Onos and Gorge and maybe the Fade will have a really hard time to counter this unreachable platform of bulletspray... Not to mention the buildings max range, making the useless as well. Think of ns_bast without the hive protective bacteria brushwork, back then you could shoot it from the other side of refinery :D
Now onto your screenshot, that one is quite amazing and really gives a nice feeling of epic scale. But do keep an eye on Gorgy and Oni. They seem to be at a huge disadvantage here, due to the long range and different height levels. Big rooms are hard to balance vs aliens, but more rock props (as you requested) might indeed do the trick.
Did I mention it looks awesome? :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know you don't have to encase the elevator entirely, but at best you end up with a staircase/corridor which is still not very good for fighting in. If you close the lift you end up with a box that the marines sit in waiting for it to arrive (pretty much exactly like a real elevator, and just as awkward) and if you don't, well you get something similar anyway but the difference is skulks might drop/run down the shaft and try to kill you, but an open diagonal shaft is basically a corridor and in that case it becomes just as boring as one, you look in either direction and shoot anything that comes in. An elevator shaft by neccesity has to be pretty exposed on at least one side.
The only way I can think of to make a shaft elevator work at all is to make it much wider than the platform and cover the three non-contact sides with things to hide aliens in, but that looks really contrived and is still pretty iffy as far as gameplay goes, enough aliens would make it impossible for the marines to traverse the elevator because they can't go faster than the set speed, so the aliens just keep acid rocketing them or whatever until they die. Conversely marines can camp the top of the shaft and lob grenades down it, or aliens can camp either end and just kill anything that gets off, which is a limitation of all elevators.
Basically elevators suck, don't use them unless you need to. That said I did use one in the cave screenshot because I wanted all aliens to be able to get up onto the catwalks. The whole room is not really very big, or at least it's very busy and full of things so you can't see all of it at once. The overall layout is that there is a central elevator with catwalks surrounding it, the elevator goes to the outside but you can only take it up to the catwalks. Controlling the catwalks gives either side an advantage because marines can fight off the larger aliens from there, while all aliens will benefit from the darker environement. Conversely marines on top will be vulnerable to skulks crossing the very dark ceiling and climbing the very dark walls, as well as lerks inhabiting the same area. Plus if an onos gets on the elevator it would be pretty well protected until it got up to the top, and then the somewhat linear nature of the catwalks would allow it to advance on marines quite nicely. You can see more of the room from the catwalks as well. The lower floors have several divisions which allow flanking behind the enemy, and the central elevated section of floor can probably house a res node or something.
Basically the outer edges are dark and allow flanking with cover, the inner area offers a height advantage and easier visibility, the two should oppose each other nicely.
Besides, the room does have things to hide behind.
<img src="http://i31.tinypic.com/a3faxd.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i26.tinypic.com/14bndt.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i32.tinypic.com/20a4h08.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
There's four in the last one if you're wondering.
Edit: although one of them appears to have been eaten by a jpeg artefact.
Very nice! It's dark without being dark! :) Could use a tad more detail here and there though, keep it up!
Been waiting for NS2 to come out since forever, glad it's coming along well, which is why i had purchased the special edition. Props on the nice work.
Here's a picture of a quick doodle i made this am, a simple corridor.
<img src="http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4919/nsmap02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Gonna try out some new rooms in the next few days.
Enjoy.
Eric
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/7EIN1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Problems: Dont fancy all my lighting yet. I want it to seem bright but enclosed, which I havnt achived yet.
The floor is not done, merely a replacement as of yet. Need to figure out if I want the room bigger. The marine structures are merely there for size comparison.
If I make it a RT point it's probably too big, if I make it a TP it's probably a little too small. Also need to make a new/one more entrance.
Anywho here they are:
Unlit ones first:
<img src="http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3287/unlit.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8301/unlit2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The huge fan goes straight out into open air (and have no seal, which is sort a my plan for where either the marines can get in to start their fight against the Kharaa or the Kharaa got in becuase of some silly janitor not putting a seal on it). With it being into the open it's exposed to the sun, so i wanted a very bright light from it.
<img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1354/75156097.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7440/94749875.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Notice in the first image that the rocks/roof are not lit by the "sun/fan-light" but the light merely shines down like a pillar. If you then look at the second picture the light and angle of view makes it bounce off the fan casing and ground to light up the rocks.
Main issue is that the room as general is darker than what I want, but I dont want it to be too bright either. All fans rotate.
Gotta love the glow from the server props.
<img src="http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9066/spawnql.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I hate ceilings, should have made an alien swarm map.
<img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/fatboy987789/ns2_knocker5.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/fatboy987789/ns2_knocker.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/fatboy987789/ns2_knocker2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/fatboy987789/ns2_knocker4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r93/fatboy987789/ns2_knocker3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You've done a reasonable job of disguising that you've got boxes with props in as rooms to be honest, it's a trap I always fall into, try and come up with a non-boxy layout before creating the room. If you start with a box it'll always look a bit like a box.
Also it's a little bit dark in the open areas, maybe an ambient light could help you out, doesn't have to be bright just need to take the edge of that darkness imo.