<!--quoteo(post=1758403:date=Mar 10 2010, 12:12 AM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 10 2010, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758403"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you guys are all missing the point I was making. Sure, the game is delayed... delayed... and even more delayed. Has UWE even attempted to let us know that? Let us know WHY... what it is they're working on, etc..?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, yes? Unlike most other companies? They post near weekly updates, they're active on the forums, and they've gone on record saying that pre-order response resulted in further delay because they could implement much more features than originally planned. I don't know how much more you want, or indeed why.
Again, I fail to see how this would be surprising to anyone: it's not a big deal, and it is to be expected. It's very hard to place release estimates when it comes to gaming, the only reason the big cats manage it is because they either don't do anything for the next release, or cut down on features and polish to make due.
I fail to see how the Valve rant is of any relevance here... I certainly didn't mean to berate them. They might be a bit rough around the ages, but they're pretty much the face the gaming in general, and for a damn good reason.
<!--quoteo(post=1758403:date=Mar 9 2010, 09:12 PM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 9 2010, 09:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758403"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you guys are all missing the point I was making. Sure, the game is delayed... delayed... and even more delayed. Has UWE even attempted to let us know that? Let us know WHY... what it is they're working on, etc..?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was posted in the news at december.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As most of you know, we've been planning on releasing NS2 in some playable form this Fall. Back in May, we thought that if the game wasn't done, at least it would be ready to play in an alpha or beta state at the very least. We wish we still thought that was true, but now we realize it isn't happening.
(Game screenshots)
Now onto the more detailed description of the game's status.
What used to be our biggest problem, environment artwork, is no longer a problem. We had a lot of difficulties transitioning from the texture-based levels of NS1 to the much more detailed prop-based levels in current generation games. Matt has done a great job leading the environment art and we now think we'll have enough level textures and models for the first release of maps (based around our "refinery" art set). Our player models (including all the aliens and marines) are done. We're cranking on weapon models and structures and we're right on track with them. Animation remains a large task (we have two animators) but we're bringing on a third animator now so we hope that will reduce the workload there. Our sound effects are going much faster than expected and sound fantastic. We're just starting the score but we expect to have a full soundtrack when we ship.
Engine programming has been going really well, although there's only so much a lone programmer (albeit, a programming genius) can do. So far Max has written about 80% of an entirely new engine and tool set from scratch. That includes the renderer, level editor, cinematic editor (used to make the teaser), Lua Debugger, networking, physics integration, animation system, auto-updater, builder and a whole bunch of smaller programs that tie everything together (not to mention performance and compatibility). Almost all of this is from scratch and it's all designed to run on low end hardware and be cross-platform. It's been really incredible to watch.
The great thing about the pre-orders is that they have allowed us to hire another programmer (although it took some time to find the right person) and he will help tremendously. I imagine there will be some significant relief and stress-reduction for Max to know that not quite everything is resting on his shoulders any more. Pre-orders have also allowed us to put the Heavy/Exoskeleton into the game, which was previously cut. We were also thinking seriously of cutting Dynamic Infestation but luckily we averted that.
Most of the game design is done and all the basic game systems are implemented. We still have more work to do on our particle system, weapon effects, Commander Mode interface and lots of little things like synching animations and sounds and that elusive "feel". It's surprising how even with so many great assets and so much tech, we still have so much to do to make this a great game.
Something that may not be apparent is that while it's been 7 years since the release of NS1, it's been a much shorter time that we've been actively working on NS2. After the 20+ patches (including some doozies), there was a lot of time trying to get this company funded. Max joined at the end of 2006 and that's when things started moving. We got an office and were up to four people in April of 2007 and Cory joined us that summer. It's pretty hard to develop a game without an Art Director, so artistically we've only really been working since then (previous artwork was scrapped). Even then, we didn't have any animators, modelers or level designers. Only in the past few months have we actually had more or less a full team working on the game.
So it's been a long road and a heck of a lot of work, but we know we're on the right track. Halloween is always a special time for us, as it makes us remember back when we launched a gutsy, laggy game called Natural Selection. I know many of you who are reading this played on that night and have supported us through all our ups and downs. If you like what we're doing and still believe in what we're doing, please consider pre-ordering if you haven't yet. We want to make sure we're not saying the same thing next Halloween...
There has never been an official release date or even an official release window. Just a passing comment in an interview or something for a timeframe they were hoping to make, and it didn't work out. It's only been a couple months since that date was missed too. Some of you guys are being incredible drama queens over it.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
I don't think they are being disingenuous when they make community announcements like that, they try to make an effort to involve the community at the peril of not being able to meet the obligations and having their efforts ridiculed. Thats the nature of the business and while it is unfortunate that there are many instances like this it is in both of our interests to let them play that game so we can play THE game.
I think the real problem with the entire situation is that everybody who bought the game is "hardcore" and how are they supposed to approach that? Honestly I think a large number are actually "hardcore" and can put up with some disappointment during the process but for UW they just can't do it.
We will have to wait for them to be comfortable with releasing stuff to their audience and I have a feeling it will be much easier than they expect, hopefully accelerating the release of their stuff.
folks should understand that game making process takes <b>LONG</b> time. for reference god of war 3 took 3 years in the making and they had a team where more than 150 people worked on it with a budget of 44 Million. so compared to what UWE have accomplished with their small team and budget its damn impressive, chill guys and have some fun with good ole NS1 untill u get those emails ur waiting for. I for one am tired of waiting but they are hard at work trying to get things done, hence no tweets and such. we have waited all these years for NS2 to come out, couple of weeks for engine test and hopefully alpha aint bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1758411:date=Mar 9 2010, 02:48 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Mar 9 2010, 02:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758411"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There has never been an official release date or even an official release window. Just a passing comment in an interview or something for a timeframe they were hoping to make, and it didn't work out. It's only been a couple months since that date was missed too. Some of you guys are being incredible drama queens over it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you even watched the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">trailer?</a> Look around 1 min. and tell me what it says. If that isn't an officially advertised date I don't know what is.
<!--quoteo(post=1758502:date=Mar 10 2010, 12:59 AM:name=Thraka2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thraka2 @ Mar 10 2010, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758502"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does the engine test give you the ability to start playing with scripting? If so, I want in!!! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh, Creating a game takes masses of time, you should try it, I have. It's bloody hard, took me a week just to wite basic keybindings code. Thats just like 0.003% of the code done. I gave up when I could not get sounds to play. I hardly understand C languages at all but i managed to make a spaceship flyaround a skybox with nvidia physics intergrated using OGRE sdk though- Max has written his own from scratch, you have no idea how much code that is.
<!--quoteo(post=1758468:date=Mar 9 2010, 09:37 PM:name=Phase)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phase @ Mar 9 2010, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you even watched the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">trailer?</a> Look around 1 min. and tell me what it says. If that isn't an officially advertised date I don't know what is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay I forgot about that, it's still a rough estimate though and if failing to make that is a crime then Blizzard should be in prison.
<!--quoteo(post=1758631:date=Mar 10 2010, 03:11 PM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 10 2010, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and the game industry will never change since a large % of gamers are complacent with "how it is" ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, what do you propose? i'm fairly certain most people here aren't mad enough to cancel pre-orders. We still want the game... but if we aren't going to cancel orders, what does a dev have to fear? angry customers? we'll shut up once the game comes out because we'll love it, even though it was delayed, so us being cranky about it now isn't really going to achieve much
<!--quoteo(post=1758631:date=Mar 10 2010, 11:11 PM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 10 2010, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and the game industry will never change since a large % of gamers are complacent with "how it is" ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This has nothing to do with companies being ######s, and everything to do with the fact that creative work cannot have well-defined time boundaries.
Do you honestly think UW are sitting around their office seeing who can spit the farthest all day? Do you think they did that at any point in development at that point?
As for pre-orders, they were, from the start, admitted to be taken as a way of supporting the development itself, so there's no way they could be launched only just before the game is anywhere near finished.
I love when people complain about this. Personally I prefer the longer wait to have a cleaner, more balanced, less buggy game. It's much preferable to a really crappily optimized and buggy game like a couple fairly recent games that have come out.
The only complaint I might have is that they pulled a fast one 'announcing' a release date probably knowing that they wouldn't hit it. But I would assume the vast majority of people that pre-ordered were NS1 fans like me, and thus realized that that date was more than likely a guideline, and it wouldn't be out til later. We still pre-ordered anyway of course ;).
<!--quoteo(post=1758631:date=Mar 10 2010, 03:11 PM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 10 2010, 03:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... and the game industry will never change since a large % of gamers are complacent with "how it is" ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the only way not to be is to refuse to purchase the game.
- "I've to wait too long for that game" vs. "This game isn't balanced and buggy and sucks" - "Show some progress, because I don't believe that you are working at all" vs. "I don't like the sneak peaks you released, it's all too different from what I expect"
But I guess those never satisfied people are just so freaking obsessed with this game that they can't let go for a minuit, even if it means you have to wait some time before it's released. Honestly try to pick up a hobby (maybe if you preordered anyway [because you are complaining so vividly] you can learn how to Spark or learn LUA or read through all the www.xkcd.com comics .... ) or anything that you can "waste" your spare time on and you'll be much more satisfied if you check on this page only once every two weeks instead of twice a day (I'll do that now, it's way more fun :) ) Your obsession with NS2 will make sure that you won't forget that game so you are safe to try something else.
I hope you can see the pattern what leads you people to your unhappiness.
Did anyone in here try a game from Bohemia Interactive (The first Operation Flashpoint, ArmA: Armed Assault and ArmA II)? That's what you get when devs release the game when it's not done. ;) Operation Flashpoint was patched "several" times: 1.10, 1.20, 1.30, 1.36 (?) , 1.42, 1.46 , 1.75 (Only if you bought the Resistance addon), 1.78, 1.80, 1.85, 1.90 (?), 1.91, 1.92, 1.95, 1.96 I think. The game was great from 1.91 on :). I might have left out at least 5 Beta-Patches/Hotfixes, too. Netcode was completely rewritten for 1.75 because even on 100Mbit/s LAN (back in 2001) the game was laggy as hell.
Conclusion: Be patient. Let them release the game when it's done. I rather have a game delayed a year than ArmA II (which was obviously developed & tested on 8-core WinXP with QuadSLI and SSDs, because Vista/7 and anything slower than that lag, too).
End of rant. ;) Somewhat OT, but I think you get the idea. Oh, and btw: I love Bohemia. I was in a Flashpoint clan and own all of their titles. You simply have to buy the game (just to support the devs), wait 2 years and then play with all patches applied. Best (only?) Milsim, best infantry simulation.
I will not cry but for real we are all fans and 95% of the Fans buy the SE just to play the alpha and support the team, so i realy don´t understand why the UWE Team split the community in "good-players" who can test, and bad players who are just the "last"... its not just a test, its the engine and some people can start make mods and testing lua, so its more as a just a Test i guess. I mean everybody of us, who pre-order the Special Edition deserved to test the engine? This test is like a thank you to the community...no its for testing i know, but why they don´t create something like, everyday just 1 Mail or a buglist, where people search first the bugs and then sending the bugs they got/found. I mean it can´t be that hard, or create a thread with bugs and the Fans list all bugs on the first post, there are ways to not separate out the fans...
<!--quoteo(post=1758739:date=Mar 11 2010, 06:49 AM:name=Wunschkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wunschkind @ Mar 11 2010, 06:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758739"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did anyone in here try a game from Bohemia Interactive (The first Operation Flashpoint, ArmA: Armed Assault and ArmA II)? That's what you get when devs release the game when it's not done. ;) Operation Flashpoint was patched "several" times: 1.10, 1.20, 1.30, 1.36 (?) , 1.42, 1.46 , 1.75 (Only if you bought the Resistance addon), 1.78, 1.80, 1.85, 1.90 (?), 1.91, 1.92, 1.95, 1.96 I think. The game was great from 1.91 on :). I might have left out at least 5 Beta-Patches/Hotfixes, too. Netcode was completely rewritten for 1.75 because even on 100Mbit/s LAN (back in 2001) the game was laggy as hell.
Conclusion: Be patient. Let them release the game when it's done. I rather have a game delayed a year than ArmA II (which was obviously developed & tested on 8-core WinXP with QuadSLI and SSDs, because Vista/7 and anything slower than that lag, too).
End of rant. ;) Somewhat OT, but I think you get the idea. Oh, and btw: I love Bohemia. I was in a Flashpoint clan and own all of their titles. You simply have to buy the game (just to support the devs), wait 2 years and then play with all patches applied. Best (only?) Milsim, best infantry simulation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah yeah, was a few months til I could play Arma II and a dozen frustrating nights reading up on bug fixes.
<!--quoteo(post=1758768:date=Mar 11 2010, 06:38 AM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 11 2010, 06:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will not cry but for real we are all fans and 95% of the Fans buy the SE just to play the alpha and support the team, so i realy don´t understand why the UWE Team split the community in "good-players" who can test, and bad players who are just the "last"... its not just a test, its the engine and some people can start make mods and testing lua, so its more as a just a Test i guess. I mean everybody of us, who pre-order the Special Edition deserved to test the engine? This test is like a thank you to the community...no its for testing i know, but why they don´t create something like, everyday just 1 Mail or a buglist, where people search first the bugs and then sending the bugs they got/found. I mean it can´t be that hard, or create a thread with bugs and the Fans list all bugs on the first post, there are ways to not separate out the fans...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they want to start out with a small group and fix the most glaring bugs that the most users will experience. For all we know, the engine code might have had a bug where all ATI cards experienced the same crash. Well, instead of sifting through e-mails and bug reports from 3,000 people, the devs chose to release to a smaller group than those that pre-ordered the SE. I think that a wider release of the engine test would have significantly slowed down development for a few weeks, if not longer. Think about it- they would have to sift through crashe reports from many, many more people instead of actually fixing the code causing the crashes.
I don't know, personally I'm not chomping at the bit for the engine test because I don't have high expectations for what it will include. I'm not a modder or a coder, and walking around inside a map is, well, walking around inside a map. It would be fun but just like the Spark editor was for people like me who don't create maps- a fun thing to tool around with it for an hour or two, say "oh, that's cool" and move on to something else.
No matter how many bugs they fix now.... there will always be more bugs later. If they keep delaying a game in an attempt to reach perfection, it'll never happen. They just need to get it done and out the door. There are always post-release updates. Hell, we're only talking about an alpha here. Wait, not even that... Engine test.
<!--quoteo(post=1758816:date=Mar 11 2010, 08:50 PM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 11 2010, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No matter how many bugs they fix now.... there will always be more bugs later. If they keep delaying a game in an attempt to reach perfection, it'll never happen. They just need to get it done and out the door. There are always post-release updates. Hell, we're only talking about an alpha here. Wait, not even that... Engine test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The goal is not perfection, but a stable, feature-complete, and non-misleading build. The Alpha that we're getting will be nothing like what goes for Alpha in game development (albeit it will also be far from release state).
You see, if they slip now, everyone and their mother who cry for early release today will flood the forum with announcements of cancelling their pre-orders the next day.
For crying out loud people, it's just four guys, trying to make a great game.
@Rehnquist What also speaks against make it bigger and bigger? So after they "invite" a tiny group and fix the bugs, they add more and more player, because more players = more bugs are found...before the alpha is released.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
easy people :) as a software developer i suspect that there are probably some very bad bugs in that first engine test, like we have seen in spark (where users of a certain graphic card could not use it). Now if there are 2-3 bugs like that so that in the end 60% of the people can't use it, there is no use in releasing it until that is fixed, simply because the bugs have been discovered and the devs know what to fix. releasing it would just create frustration (and we have seen how hard the ns community can be with even artwork releases).
<!--quoteo(post=1758816:date=Mar 11 2010, 12:50 PM:name=HoundDawg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HoundDawg @ Mar 11 2010, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758816"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No matter how many bugs they fix now.... there will always be more bugs later. If they keep delaying a game in an attempt to reach perfection, it'll never happen. They just need to get it done and out the door. There are always post-release updates. Hell, we're only talking about an alpha here. Wait, not even that... Engine test.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you should follow with what you said.
If you can't stand it, don't support the developers with your money.
*Sigh, I should just lock this whole thread.* --Comprox
Lol, my thread went a long way.. I just meant to have a short discussion about the engine test, expecting that we would have more info on it at this time but well.. trolls flamed it and there it goes.
It always comes back to "I've put money on the table, where's my game?" lol
Comments
Um, yes? Unlike most other companies? They post near weekly updates, they're active on the forums, and they've gone on record saying that pre-order response resulted in further delay because they could implement much more features than originally planned. I don't know how much more you want, or indeed why.
Again, I fail to see how this would be surprising to anyone: it's not a big deal, and it is to be expected. It's very hard to place release estimates when it comes to gaming, the only reason the big cats manage it is because they either don't do anything for the next release, or cut down on features and polish to make due.
I fail to see how the Valve rant is of any relevance here... I certainly didn't mean to berate them. They might be a bit rough around the ages, but they're pretty much the face the gaming in general, and for a damn good reason.
This was posted in the news at december.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As most of you know, we've been planning on releasing NS2 in some playable form this Fall. Back in May, we thought that if the game wasn't done, at least it would be ready to play in an alpha or beta state at the very least. We wish we still thought that was true, but now we realize it isn't happening.
(Game screenshots)
Now onto the more detailed description of the game's status.
What used to be our biggest problem, environment artwork, is no longer a problem. We had a lot of difficulties transitioning from the texture-based levels of NS1 to the much more detailed prop-based levels in current generation games. Matt has done a great job leading the environment art and we now think we'll have enough level textures and models for the first release of maps (based around our "refinery" art set). Our player models (including all the aliens and marines) are done. We're cranking on weapon models and structures and we're right on track with them. Animation remains a large task (we have two animators) but we're bringing on a third animator now so we hope that will reduce the workload there. Our sound effects are going much faster than expected and sound fantastic. We're just starting the score but we expect to have a full soundtrack when we ship.
Engine programming has been going really well, although there's only so much a lone programmer (albeit, a programming genius) can do. So far Max has written about 80% of an entirely new engine and tool set from scratch. That includes the renderer, level editor, cinematic editor (used to make the teaser), Lua Debugger, networking, physics integration, animation system, auto-updater, builder and a whole bunch of smaller programs that tie everything together (not to mention performance and compatibility). Almost all of this is from scratch and it's all designed to run on low end hardware and be cross-platform. It's been really incredible to watch.
The great thing about the pre-orders is that they have allowed us to hire another programmer (although it took some time to find the right person) and he will help tremendously. I imagine there will be some significant relief and stress-reduction for Max to know that not quite everything is resting on his shoulders any more. Pre-orders have also allowed us to put the Heavy/Exoskeleton into the game, which was previously cut. We were also thinking seriously of cutting Dynamic Infestation but luckily we averted that.
Most of the game design is done and all the basic game systems are implemented. We still have more work to do on our particle system, weapon effects, Commander Mode interface and lots of little things like synching animations and sounds and that elusive "feel". It's surprising how even with so many great assets and so much tech, we still have so much to do to make this a great game.
Something that may not be apparent is that while it's been 7 years since the release of NS1, it's been a much shorter time that we've been actively working on NS2. After the 20+ patches (including some doozies), there was a lot of time trying to get this company funded. Max joined at the end of 2006 and that's when things started moving. We got an office and were up to four people in April of 2007 and Cory joined us that summer. It's pretty hard to develop a game without an Art Director, so artistically we've only really been working since then (previous artwork was scrapped). Even then, we didn't have any animators, modelers or level designers. Only in the past few months have we actually had more or less a full team working on the game.
So it's been a long road and a heck of a lot of work, but we know we're on the right track. Halloween is always a special time for us, as it makes us remember back when we launched a gutsy, laggy game called Natural Selection. I know many of you who are reading this played on that night and have supported us through all our ups and downs. If you like what we're doing and still believe in what we're doing, please consider pre-ordering if you haven't yet. We want to make sure we're not saying the same thing next Halloween...
It's good to have you with us.
-The NS2 Team<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the real problem with the entire situation is that everybody who bought the game is "hardcore" and how are they supposed to approach that? Honestly I think a large number are actually "hardcore" and can put up with some disappointment during the process but for UW they just can't do it.
We will have to wait for them to be comfortable with releasing stuff to their audience and I have a feeling it will be much easier than they expect, hopefully accelerating the release of their stuff.
so compared to what UWE have accomplished with their small team and budget its damn impressive, chill guys and have some fun with good ole NS1 untill u get those emails ur waiting for.
I for one am tired of waiting but they are hard at work trying to get things done, hence no tweets and such. we have waited all these years for NS2 to come out, couple of weeks for engine test and hopefully alpha aint bad.
Have you even watched the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxfjfBeC6tQ&feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">trailer?</a> Look around 1 min. and tell me what it says. If that isn't an officially advertised date I don't know what is.
From what they have said, yes.
Some of us have been waiting for an alpha for way more than a year. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been waiting since November 16, 2004. =)
It's bloody hard, took me a week just to wite basic keybindings code. Thats just like 0.003% of the code done.
I gave up when I could not get sounds to play. I hardly understand C languages at all but i managed to make a spaceship flyaround a skybox with nvidia physics intergrated using OGRE sdk though- Max has written his own from scratch, you have no idea how much code that is.
Okay I forgot about that, it's still a rough estimate though and if failing to make that is a crime then Blizzard should be in prison.
well, what do you propose? i'm fairly certain most people here aren't mad enough to cancel pre-orders. We still want the game... but if we aren't going to cancel orders, what does a dev have to fear? angry customers? we'll shut up once the game comes out because we'll love it, even though it was delayed, so us being cranky about it now isn't really going to achieve much
This has nothing to do with companies being ######s, and everything to do with the fact that creative work cannot have well-defined time boundaries.
Do you honestly think UW are sitting around their office seeing who can spit the farthest all day? Do you think they did that at any point in development at that point?
As for pre-orders, they were, from the start, admitted to be taken as a way of supporting the development itself, so there's no way they could be launched only just before the game is anywhere near finished.
The only complaint I might have is that they pulled a fast one 'announcing' a release date probably knowing that they wouldn't hit it. But I would assume the vast majority of people that pre-ordered were NS1 fans like me, and thus realized that that date was more than likely a guideline, and it wouldn't be out til later. We still pre-ordered anyway of course ;).
the only way not to be is to refuse to purchase the game.
But since you are here I doubt that will happen.
That being said, this thread has derailed quite well. It will be out when its out, go do something else till then.
Complaining in the forums will get you absolutely no closer to the engine test, alpha, beta or release.
- "I've to wait too long for that game" vs. "This game isn't balanced and buggy and sucks"
- "Show some progress, because I don't believe that you are working at all" vs. "I don't like the sneak peaks you released, it's all too different from what I expect"
But I guess those never satisfied people are just so freaking obsessed with this game that they can't let go for a minuit, even if it means you have to wait some time before it's released.
Honestly try to pick up a hobby (maybe if you preordered anyway [because you are complaining so vividly] you can learn how to Spark or learn LUA or read through all the www.xkcd.com comics .... ) or anything that you can "waste" your spare time on and you'll be much more satisfied if you check on this page only once every two weeks instead of twice a day (I'll do that now, it's way more fun :) )
Your obsession with NS2 will make sure that you won't forget that game so you are safe to try something else.
I hope you can see the pattern what leads you people to your unhappiness.
Operation Flashpoint was patched "several" times: 1.10, 1.20, 1.30, 1.36 (?) , 1.42, 1.46 , 1.75 (Only if you bought the Resistance addon), 1.78, 1.80, 1.85, 1.90 (?), 1.91, 1.92, 1.95, 1.96 I think. The game was great from 1.91 on :). I might have left out at least 5 Beta-Patches/Hotfixes, too.
Netcode was completely rewritten for 1.75 because even on 100Mbit/s LAN (back in 2001) the game was laggy as hell.
Conclusion: Be patient. Let them release the game when it's done. I rather have a game delayed a year than ArmA II (which was obviously developed & tested on 8-core WinXP with QuadSLI and SSDs, because Vista/7 and anything slower than that lag, too).
End of rant. ;) Somewhat OT, but I think you get the idea. Oh, and btw: I love Bohemia. I was in a Flashpoint clan and own all of their titles. You simply have to buy the game (just to support the devs), wait 2 years and then play with all patches applied. Best (only?) Milsim, best infantry simulation.
its not just a test, its the engine and some people can start make mods and testing lua, so its more as a just a Test i guess.
I mean everybody of us, who pre-order the Special Edition deserved to test the engine?
This test is like a thank you to the community...no its for testing i know, but why they don´t create something like, everyday just 1 Mail or a buglist, where people search first the bugs and then sending the bugs they got/found.
I mean it can´t be that hard, or create a thread with bugs and the Fans list all bugs on the first post, there are ways to not separate out the fans...
Operation Flashpoint was patched "several" times: 1.10, 1.20, 1.30, 1.36 (?) , 1.42, 1.46 , 1.75 (Only if you bought the Resistance addon), 1.78, 1.80, 1.85, 1.90 (?), 1.91, 1.92, 1.95, 1.96 I think. The game was great from 1.91 on :). I might have left out at least 5 Beta-Patches/Hotfixes, too.
Netcode was completely rewritten for 1.75 because even on 100Mbit/s LAN (back in 2001) the game was laggy as hell.
Conclusion: Be patient. Let them release the game when it's done. I rather have a game delayed a year than ArmA II (which was obviously developed & tested on 8-core WinXP with QuadSLI and SSDs, because Vista/7 and anything slower than that lag, too).
End of rant. ;) Somewhat OT, but I think you get the idea. Oh, and btw: I love Bohemia. I was in a Flashpoint clan and own all of their titles. You simply have to buy the game (just to support the devs), wait 2 years and then play with all patches applied. Best (only?) Milsim, best infantry simulation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah yeah, was a few months til I could play Arma II and a dozen frustrating nights reading up on bug fixes.
its not just a test, its the engine and some people can start make mods and testing lua, so its more as a just a Test i guess.
I mean everybody of us, who pre-order the Special Edition deserved to test the engine?
This test is like a thank you to the community...no its for testing i know, but why they don´t create something like, everyday just 1 Mail or a buglist, where people search first the bugs and then sending the bugs they got/found.
I mean it can´t be that hard, or create a thread with bugs and the Fans list all bugs on the first post, there are ways to not separate out the fans...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because they want to start out with a small group and fix the most glaring bugs that the most users will experience. For all we know, the engine code might have had a bug where all ATI cards experienced the same crash. Well, instead of sifting through e-mails and bug reports from 3,000 people, the devs chose to release to a smaller group than those that pre-ordered the SE. I think that a wider release of the engine test would have significantly slowed down development for a few weeks, if not longer. Think about it- they would have to sift through crashe reports from many, many more people instead of actually fixing the code causing the crashes.
I don't know, personally I'm not chomping at the bit for the engine test because I don't have high expectations for what it will include. I'm not a modder or a coder, and walking around inside a map is, well, walking around inside a map. It would be fun but just like the Spark editor was for people like me who don't create maps- a fun thing to tool around with it for an hour or two, say "oh, that's cool" and move on to something else.
The goal is not perfection, but a stable, feature-complete, and non-misleading build. The Alpha that we're getting will be nothing like what goes for Alpha in game development (albeit it will also be far from release state).
You see, if they slip now, everyone and their mother who cry for early release today will flood the forum with announcements of cancelling their pre-orders the next day.
For crying out loud people, it's just four guys, trying to make a great game.
What also speaks against make it bigger and bigger?
So after they "invite" a tiny group and fix the bugs, they add more and more player, because more players = more bugs are found...before the alpha is released.
Then you should follow with what you said.
If you can't stand it, don't support the developers with your money.
*Sigh, I should just lock this whole thread.* --Comprox
It always comes back to "I've put money on the table, where's my game?" lol