Unmoddable version of NS 2 ?
ASnogarD
Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
<div class="IPBDescription">AKA want to play on pure NS 2 servers.</div>Modding is nice and everything but I tend to prefer to stick with the proper versions of most FPS games, or the mod must be a total conversion (like CS , DOD and NS was to the HL Deathmatch).
I was wondering if there would be a manner to search for unmodded NS 2 servers, a manner to ensure no client side LUA mods were in effect (auto reload tweaks, etc etc).
I am not saying dont allow mods, just allow an option for those who prefer not to have mods , like lerk lift ( really , lerk picks up marine drops him in a pit ... marine can do nothing while being carried.).
All those mods and scripts players are using to make the engine test more fun made me a tad bit worried about the state of the servers, and how many will be vanilla Flayra intended NS 2 classic mode.
I was wondering if there would be a manner to search for unmodded NS 2 servers, a manner to ensure no client side LUA mods were in effect (auto reload tweaks, etc etc).
I am not saying dont allow mods, just allow an option for those who prefer not to have mods , like lerk lift ( really , lerk picks up marine drops him in a pit ... marine can do nothing while being carried.).
All those mods and scripts players are using to make the engine test more fun made me a tad bit worried about the state of the servers, and how many will be vanilla Flayra intended NS 2 classic mode.
Comments
Put mods in a mod folder and load them on top of the basic game, thus keeping the original for when you want to play pure, and the modified versions for when you don't.
I would expect that very few NS2 servers would be exactly the same as the original, because a thousand people all working to mod the game will obviously produce something more fun than half a dozen guys working to build a game from scratch, simple man-hours will see to that. But I would also expect that the servers would remain fairly close to NS2 because this is after all an NS forum, and people who are on it like NS and want to play NS.
And yes, they specifically said that you will be able to flag for pure servers.
If there will be any? I dono, but I suspect so, especially at launch. After that I expect to see the more popular mods being hard to avoid, though that depends on what a 'mod' will be. If we are seeing server admin tools implemented as lua mods, than it is going to be a problem finding 'pure' servers (I would count servers with admin tools as pure).
buggered if I know, you're the smart one here who is (or was) making admin tools.
The statement was really "I assume admin tools will be done in LUA thus finding 'pure' servers will probably be a pita".
however the other possibility I was thinking of was something along the lines of metamod which (iirc) is more of a hook than something actually designed within the HL engine.
But yea, admin tools and pure servers really won't get along too well. I can't come up with any good solution to that, except for using some type of crypto signature to let certain mod developers release mods that work on pure servers.
If you leave it to the server operators to indicate if they are pure or not they will all lie as we have seen in TF2.
This also will cause problems because I know for example TGNS had several server specific mods. They were for admin tools, supporter bonuses, and stuff like that, but they did not change the gameplay experience from what I would call a 'pure' game. Such mods would also push a server into what is going to be a very messy 'mod' tab in the console.
Having a separate tab for mod servers is a mistake. We learned that in TF2, I hope it's not repeated in NS2.
Pro-mod: Competetive mod
Fun-mod: Goofy additions meant for more comical values on the servers
Accessory-mod: Additions of things that add non-balance damaging features
Other-mod: Whatever crazy people come up with
Idealy you're going to have your server admin's name their servers according to what mods they are running so people can connect to servers that state what lua mods are active.
But the above is inevitable, and like TF2, it's good to find a server or two you enjoy playing on and sticking to that environment if you want consistency. Like Nano-Gridlick of old.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem here is that there will be mods that do not change the gameplay experience but do enhance the game, for example admin tools and bug fixes. These types of mods shouldn't disqualify a server from being a "pure" server, but the only way to do that would be for UWE to basically have an approval process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree but on last sentence: not necessarily. In NS1/AMXX-system this would be possible by limiting the functions and libraries the mods could use. With the new LUA interface, this'll be a lot more complicated.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We may need something similar to metamod (The current mod system leaves a lot to be desired.. there's no way to load multiple mods at once, aside from editing files), but that's going to depend on what the final game looks like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Weird since Max said <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106746&hl=" target="_blank">opposite</a> but I'm not sure if zip/pak-system is in-place yet? You can use directories.txt though. However either of this'll require some kind of AMXX-type of interface mod because now several mods wanting to make changes to say Player -class cannot do it.
There surely will be a "NS2 Enhanced" mod that tweaks simple game elements and adds some tool's but every other little self-made-tweak will sink between the Big Mods. After the first days or weeks you will easily recognize what is what.
And i'm sure that the Dev's will put in a filter option to search for servers that have those mods you like, also if their just little hacks.
If you leave it to the server operators to indicate if they are pure or not they will all lie as we have seen in TF2.
This also will cause problems because I know for example TGNS had several server specific mods. They were for admin tools, supporter bonuses, and stuff like that, but they did not change the gameplay experience from what I would call a 'pure' game. Such mods would also push a server into what is going to be a very messy 'mod' tab in the console.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the more reason that a "pure" mode is 100% pointless.
If we look at NS1, the servers say "classic" but they all run modifications that do change the game mode. For example: scripts that let you choose if you which to play co, siege, or ns... and then the countless scripts that prevent unbalanced teams... Gorge mines... Custom maps (pure concentrated evil).
So yes a real PURE mode would prevent a server from running ANY custom map AND "harmless" script that "doesn't" affect gameplay. That means if the game lacks some admin feature... to bad you won't be getting your admin abuse quota for the day (i.e. you won't be able to slap players (if it's not a built-in-"pure"-NS2-feature... stuff like that).
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If a player joins a server, we could just give them the option of what scripts they want running. Meaning if they don't want the admin-abuse-script-version-1.0 running, then they just disable it client side. This would permit a "Pure" server to still run custom scripts, but it's up to the player what they wish to accept.
Stupid? yep.
Alternative? No such thing as a "pure" server. Not for NS2 anyway... a game where it takes 3 seconds to mod a lua file to give everyone 99 round rifles (not saying it's a bad thing... just example that the game is so moddable that <u>"pure" is obselete!</u>)
/Good to know Flayra!
I am not against mods at all but some can get really silly and you cant trust every server to accurately describe what thier server has or hasnt.
if i run into a server that makes me download quake sounds I'm gonna scream
cl_downloadfilter nosounds
That's dangerous waters, assuming that means you'll directly separate "vanilla" from "custom".
Team Fortress 2 had this for a while, and it was outright disastrous: people would simply fake their server info to get on the more common "vanilla" tab. Hell, today, with the tag system, some still do.
If it wasn't a crime against nature, I'd have your children.
lol
but there will be vanilla servers for sure, if not I'm gonna buy and make one with freaking good ping and reg.. unless the game happens to be bad but i doubt it. hehe
Hopefully, by "vanilla," he is also including servers with mods that do not affect gameplay, like admin mods, map voting mods, etc. Else we might, as others have mentioned, run into some of the problems TF2 has.
That aside it would be nice if there was something like an isolated Lua package set aside for interface tweaks that would be permittable in vanilla servers. So check to see that it follows a strict interface that prevents it from changing the gameplay if the server is going to be vanilla, and then let people do whatever they want with it.
That is actually a vital question either way. Is the lua code released with the game under any specific license? Do we have to release our code under a certain license?
As for licensing, I'd assume all derivative works belong to UWE.
/connect
Team Fortress 2 had this for a while, and it was outright disastrous: people would simply fake their server info to get on the more common "vanilla" tab. Hell, today, with the tag system, some still do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't agree. You suggest it's dangerous only because servers could cheat the system.
I certainly want a way to discern whether a server is using any customized lua... although I would prefer if there was also a way to determine if there was any LUA that changed gameplay as compared to administrative or stats lua functions that don't interfere with play.
Really, you should find a few servers to build a relationship with and make friends you play with often on those same trusted servers. It was like this with NS1, I played on a few servers that used extensive custom mods/maps and a few servers for vanilla gameplay. I knew and trusted the admins on these servers. Your connection with a community will trump any flagging system. I don't really understand how people can engage in a social medium and not form lasting relationships with those they game with.