Game commentary

blindblind Join Date: 2010-04-17 Member: 71437Members, Squad Five Gold
edited May 2010 in NS2 General Discussion
Hey guys. I'm sorry if this is dropped in the wrong subforums, but I figured it would be well placed here.

If you know some game commentary (e.g. HDstarcraft - love it) you know how a good commentator can spread popularity for a game by demonstrating its tactical depth. NS do have a lot of depth in gameplay, especially compared with all other FPS I know, and I'd really like to have some good NS2 commentary going on when this will finally grow up.

Regarding no one ever did some on NS1 I tried to fill out the hole by commentating/shoutcasting recent NS1 matches of ENSL which is still running. I'm completely new to this, so don't expect too much as I try to get better with every shoutcast I do. Hence, feedback and criticizm are highly appreciated.

All matches can be found here:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/blindNS" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/blindNS</a>

Because youtube videos are restricted up to 10 minutes length, I had to split many rounds. Hence I created playlists but you can also select specific rounds in my uploads on my channel and follow throughout the video responses I seeded.

Also mentioning that all vids are HD, because I personally always forget that I can select better res on youtube videos while complaining about the quality :D
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Comments

  • ns_insiderns_insider Join Date: 2007-09-30 Member: 62484Members, Reinforced - Shadow
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members
    Cool! I really hope shoutcasting takes off for NS2.

    You can put Youtube videos in a playlist and they'll play sequentially. It's a little bit easier than finding the "response" vid.
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Good job. I would advise finding a good partner that you can work well with and comment on a team each. There is simply too much happening in an NS game for one caster to keep track of it all, though maybe that won't hold for NS2. Having said that, good job. Have the finals been played yet?
  • blindblind Join Date: 2010-04-17 Member: 71437Members, Squad Five Gold
    @noncomposmentis
    Thanks for the hint, I will try that when I come back home after weekend.

    @puzl
    Funny you mention that, I tried to do with a 2nd caster, but we had lots of troubles with sound recording (using fraps and teamspeak), but we'll try again once we found a solution for it.
    And no, finals are coming up sunday (unless they have to postpone) evening euro-time.
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    well, I'll be at a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Hurling_League_2010" target="_blank">different league final</a> on Sunday evening, so I'll look forward to your youtube commentary.
  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Members
    edited April 2010
    I think this is a great idea and I really liked your commentary. I agree that it would be really cool to have some stuff like this for NS2 when it gets released (or even in beta). I did have a bit of constructive criticism though. Try not to hold down the score screen button so much since the overlay of the scores really takes the viewer out of the action. Also, I'm not wild about the map overlay either but I can see why it is important for you to know where the action is happening. Hopefully the NS2 spectator functionality will be more robust and user friendly so that it's easier to commentate and switch between players. Anyways, great job and keep it up!
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1769118:date=Apr 29 2010, 12:26 PM:name=blind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blind @ Apr 29 2010, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769118"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding no one ever did some on NS1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Clearly you missed all of these then?
    <a href="http://www.ninelegends.com/files/index.php?dir=Shoutcasts/Natural%20Selection/" target="_blank">http://www.ninelegends.com/files/index.php...al%20Selection/</a>

    I personally shoutcasted at least a couple of ENSL season finals, aswell as the (last?) EU vs NA exhibition match when v3.1 came out.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    edited April 2010
    Ok, now that you got your piece of attention, I think we can all agree that he probably meant uploading demos with commentary on youtube to increase the game's popularity..(hence the reference to hdstarcraft at the start of his post)..

    Which leads to the question wether ns2's first release will include a demo feature or not since they already said that some kind of hltv feature is low priority.
    Because I personally enjoy the starcraft 2 videos and I agree that something like this would also help ns2.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Great matches and great commentary, blind. I just had a smile on my face the entire time I watched that first match.

    We love commentary, spectating and replays, but I don't think they will hold up v1.0. Starcraft 2 did something I've always wanted (which I hope we can do for NS2) which is archive old versions of the game locally to allow you to easily watch old demos.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    Nice commentaries.

    I'd still appreciate if you paid a bit more attention to the alien scoreboard res counts though. While watching HLTV demos I constantly try to figure out the timings and such, but on your commentaries it's all up to you to keep us on track of that.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    Nifty.

    I highly recommend you check out the HoNCast crew and how they're doing commentary for Heroes of Newerth. Granted, they have a whole spectator mode UI setup to make their life easier. No idea how the NS2 spec mode will be like.

    And then there's the whole live versus replay commentary. They're both good things to cover.


    Basically, I recommend someone (perhaps you) start getting a site together where we can get a team of good, consistent commentators to cover epic stuff.
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited April 2010
    Starcraft 2 has an awesome replay system, especially how you can view a bunch of different statistics while the game is progressing. I watch some of HDstarcraft's and Husky's commentaries and can't help but thinking how cool it would be for NS2 to have a similar spectator system. Hopefully somewhere down the line NS2 will get something like that.

    For those who aren't familiar with it, here's one of the best replays from it:

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGP1-R9rugo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGP1-R9rugo</a>
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <3 ingame statistics.

    Notables for NS2:
    Current team res (aggregate and per-player / per-comm)
    Total res gained for this round and total res spent for the round
    # of res nodes
    Alien Lifeforms and Marine Weapons on the field
    Building counts
    Score sheet (we all love K:D, right???)
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I never played competitive NS, but those matches didn't look too different from the public games I played. The marines did tend to go in groups of 2 or more, but that's about it. They made the same mistakes random players make.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    There are many different levels of competition and for the most part the caliber you see today is less than it was when NS was in its prime. At the highest levels I assure you you will not even recognize what is being played, where games are won and lost in fractions of a second and mistakes aren't forgiven.
  • Viper_two_nine_AViper_two_nine_A Join Date: 2004-09-29 Member: 31989Members
    nice videos!

    for the next ones you do ... could you maybe raise your voice volume over the game sounds a little more? sometimes i had a hard time understanding what you were saying. but this might also just me being a non native speaker ;)
  • WarmongerWarmonger Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13126Members, Constellation
    I appreciate that you are uploading replays of matches. I used to love watching matches in HLTV or downloading the replay's and unfortunately most of the stuff on YouTube is of very low quality or has music dubbed over it. I like the idea of a commentary, but you asked for some criticism so here it comes:

    * Too much talking. You were talking so much that I started to try to tune you out. IMO, commentating is not necessarily about talking non-stop. You had a pretty heavy accent and were talking fast so I had to actually make an effort to try to understand what you were saying. Personally I like to hear the sounds going on in the game and I don't mind some commentary mixed in but I don't like it to dominate the audible experience.

    * The mini-map overlay was HIGHLY annoying. I want to watch the match, not the mini-map. Occasionally (and quickly) popping it up during slow moments to see how many nodes each team had would have been better.

    * Stop holding the tab key to see the status of players. You only need to hold it for a second or two to see who went fade / onos / heavy /etc. Between the mini-map and the scoreboard I honestly had to stop watching.

    With all that said I think it's a good idea, but it definitely needs to be honed :)
  • Katana-Katana- Join Date: 2008-11-25 Member: 65575Members
    I'd love to help out with any projects of this nature going forward. When the beta comes out, we should do some exhibition matches, and commentate them. Then post them up on gaming sites to try and build hype for the game. Similar to what blizzard did for sc2 before it came out. I'd love to help commentate, or help with the technical side of things.

    Like every one else here, I'm really excited about streaming and watching high level ns2.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1769194:date=Apr 29 2010, 08:14 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Apr 29 2010, 08:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769194"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never played competitive NS, but those matches didn't look too different from the public games I played. The marines did tend to go in groups of 2 or more, but that's about it. They made the same mistakes random players make.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wonder what kind of mistakes you're referring to. The games nowadays aren't too high level due to the lack of active teams, but it's still a world of difference compared to the present public games.
  • DrummerDrummer Join Date: 2004-02-18 Member: 26654Members
    edited April 2010
    back when nsradio was still up and running, we did traditional sportscasting for CAL, ANSL, and some ENSL, meaning we didnt record it with a demo, we just talked about the game as it was happening and streamed it out on nsradio. we always had a public hltv for our listeners to tune in as well so they could watch the same thing the sportscasters were watching, but it wasnt guaranteed that our listeners were watching the hltv themselves, this was always the big hurdle to spectating ns matches, you had to connect to 2 different things to get the whole experience. but if ns2 will be able to merge these things together, it will mean an easier and more enjoyable experience for everyone, casters and viewers.

    im not sure how you set things up to do this, but i think you might want to reconsider a second person commentating. not just for the second set of eyes to make sure you dont miss anything, but for pre-game, post-game, and downtime during the game, you can have someone to bounce ideas/thoughts off of to keep the listeners entertained.

    you can count me in for any type of ns2 commentating, it was definitely an enjoyable experience for me, and i felt like i was making a connection between the really high skilled players in the match and the relatively lower skilled players watching. i know how much of a hurdle it is to get something like this off the ground, especially for one person, so if you need any help with your operation, let me know

    edit: i still have some of our old shoutcast recordings if you would like hear them
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation
    ONly watched one and a half rounds of the first game... nice one, almost makes me want to get a gameable computer and play some NS :) I'm guessing a lot of laughing on vent and only a little concentration though considering what I saw?
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1769244:date=Apr 29 2010, 11:35 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Apr 29 2010, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wonder what kind of mistakes you're referring to. The games nowadays aren't too high level due to the lack of active teams, but it's still a world of difference compared to the present public games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Blind pointed out countless mistakes throughout the matches. Lerks flying into 2 shotguns, 2 marines with lmgs trying to take on a hive, gorges out alone, you name it.

    But I can see how competitive NS can get old quickly. The tactics will be very similar game to game. You don't get the varied gameplay like you do in public matches. No heavy rushes, no sieges, no walls of lame, no DC first, no turret farms, etc. You may think some of those are silly or stupid, and yeah, you're right, but it adds variety and fun to each game, as you never know what to expect. Some of my most enjoyable games were games where both sides make stupid mistakes and the ebb and flow of momentum is great.
  • marksmarks Join Date: 2008-07-28 Member: 64720Members
    DCs first has always been a viable strat on some maps, and thats just one example...
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    edited April 2010
    @Quovatis
    I take it that video was your first contact with competetive NS, because half of the things you ruled out actually do happen on a regular basis.
    For example, one of the big differences to pub play is the smaller team size.

    @topic:
    Only watched one round so far, but I liked it!

    Little criticism: You seemed to explain some very basic things - which is good for inexperienced players, but might get old quickly if you keep doing it in all your commentaries.
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2010
    No I haven't watched much competitive NS. But all 3 matches posted have almost the same gameplay. I don't remember seeing any OCs, turrets, heavies, or GLs. All the marines do is attack nodes, and put down a few phasegates with no defenses. Aliens don't defend much either...just get res for Fades and Onos. If those matches are not representative of competitive NS, then I stand corrected, but they seemed monotonous and boring to me if that's how they all are.

    Where are you from Blind? You sound like you have a Dutch accent. Good job on the videos though.
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation
    Well Quovatis, I'm not in the loop on competitive NS any longer, but what you described is the basics of the game. I would assume that the less the competitive pressure and time spent on the game the more towards those basics games with mechanically highly skilled players in them will drift. Out of laziness if nothing else.
  • huhuhhuhuh Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33190Members
    No offense Quovatis but you're clearly lacking some important points from the metagame of current NS. The biggest probably being mentioning the lack of GLs or OC walls. They're barely ever used because they're just not as effective as other stuff that exists. Want to kill structures ? Get a shotgun, you'll be able to defend yourself. As for OCs, they're only ok against jetpacks (or in a long game to hinder straight rushes-in), because instead of 3 ocs i'd rather have one more lerk, and instead of 5 ocs i 'd rather have one fade. It's just 9000% more effective due to the staticness of OCs...
  • QuovatisQuovatis Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1769343:date=Apr 30 2010, 04:35 PM:name=huhuh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huhuh @ Apr 30 2010, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No offense Quovatis but you're clearly lacking some important points from the metagame of current NS. The biggest probably being mentioning the lack of GLs or OC walls. They're barely ever used because they're just not as effective as other stuff that exists. Want to kill structures ? Get a shotgun, you'll be able to defend yourself. As for OCs, they're only ok against jetpacks (or in a long game to hinder straight rushes-in), because instead of 3 ocs i'd rather have one more lerk, and instead of 5 ocs i 'd rather have one fade. It's just 9000% more effective due to the staticness of OCs...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That was exactly my point. I understand that most of that stuff is pointless for pros (I even said that), but it just doesn't seem all that fun when you strip down the game to just a few elements that are the most effective. At least you get to see many different things in public play, not just the most effective strategy 90% of the time.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1769348:date=Apr 30 2010, 07:19 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Apr 30 2010, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1769348"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At least you get to see many different things in public play, not just the most effective strategy 90% of the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Welcome to competition in every walk of life.
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