GUI Design
Runteh
Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
One pet peeve I have about RTS and in-game button control UI is how awfully painful it can be to navigate. The button layouts and icons should be intuitive enough so that (and NS being such a quick game) anyone can have a look at them and instantly understand what it 'sort of' does.
Not only has the function got to be clear, but navigation through the hierarchy of menus has to be spot on. It is great that you have someone who has been working on games for the iPhone because (imo) when it came out it led the way in GUI design and, fan or not, spawned copycat competition.
<img src="http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/NS2-MarineCommanderMode.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My current issue with these icons and layouts is that I only get one or two of them instantly (On/Off, Build Icon, cursor), the others could be anything and the chances are that in fast paced game play I am going to press one of the 'crosshair' type icons instead of the other.
It would be interesting to hear how others have been experiencing this UI, or maybe it is just me?
Not only has the function got to be clear, but navigation through the hierarchy of menus has to be spot on. It is great that you have someone who has been working on games for the iPhone because (imo) when it came out it led the way in GUI design and, fan or not, spawned copycat competition.
<img src="http://images.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/NS2-MarineCommanderMode.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My current issue with these icons and layouts is that I only get one or two of them instantly (On/Off, Build Icon, cursor), the others could be anything and the chances are that in fast paced game play I am going to press one of the 'crosshair' type icons instead of the other.
It would be interesting to hear how others have been experiencing this UI, or maybe it is just me?
Comments
Seems fairly intuitive to me.
Or at least, seems like most other RTS games I've played, they often use varations on those icons.
Seems fairly intuitive to me.
Or at least, seems like most other RTS games I've played, they often use varations on those icons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, because obviously the units that you're commanding are players you don't need the extra orders such as "Move and Attack" and formations.
Basically NS2 is a RTS players wet dream.
You do need the move/attack orders for the NPCs however, which is what is selected.
Oh wait they have ^_^
Basically NS2 is a RTS players wet dream.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dynamic infestation, drifter, are babblers going to be completely NPC etc?
What I would love to see is a more hierarchical selection for the things that you build, so at least you know what you have and what can be built/upgraded. (Sort of like CIV) The current 8 or so options after clicking build could be anything.
RTFM is bad design to an extent.
oh.. and its a called a HUD, not the gui
How do you locate and certain marine on the map (without being alerted by him) and provide the right resources. Personally I think access to a list of players with their health/ammo status that when you click on their name takes you to them would be appropriate. Maybe the minimap blips could be coloured for health/ammo status.
I am just curious to know whether uwe are going to take this further than the standard rts elements that you get in games, considering each human unit is much more important that your standard rts one.
As for it being called a HUD, that is not strictly true. A heads up display is something you get in a fighter jet. You look through a screen to outside of the aircraft, on which is displayed information that you can access when needs be. In games, the sense that you are a player looking out into the 'virtual world' makes it a HUD. But it is actually a graphical user interface.
Correction fail. How embarrassing.
Why would you call this a HUD? A HUD would be something like the visor + augmented-reality stuff (motion tracker + waypoint info + player/structure/ammo/health readouts).
The commander view can only be considered a GUI, or user-interface. I mean the commander is literally staring at a monitor when he's in the CC, just like in NS1, and he can interact with this interface... i.e. their's buttons to press.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 08:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 08:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys. I'm working on the <u>NS2 commander interface</u> at the moment, so I've created this thread to hear your thoughts in general about the NS commander experience so we can improve it as much as possible for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pity there's not something that corresponds with in game characters
its all a bit generic... good design isn't about hotkeys
Hud is ignored once you grasp the hotkeys , anyone clicking them is fool.
That is the thing about design... something you do might not necessarily be what others do. Despite how mad you think it is.
For example:
Little nuances such as the fact that I prefer to click on buttons and that I rarely will play commander (in ns1 anyway, and it takes time to muscle memory those hotkeys) means I don't really understand the hierarchy of structures, what to build next (which puts me off playing commander, and this understanding the game better) and the fact that locating people on the map and giving them health and ammo is a real pain. So people die needlessly and I dont want to play anymore, because people start demanding shotguns and i dont know who is who... etc etc...
I know NS2 is different... well it will be if the 'n' number of scenarios are considered and they build the interface to work with people, not the other way round.
Oh and thanks FocusedWolf
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys. I'm working on the NS2 commander interface at the moment, so I've created this thread to hear your thoughts in general about the NS commander experience so we can improve it as much as possible for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, I don't think quoting something from 2007 is really helping, lol. We could drag it up from the abyss though.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->color coding the yellow of bots with the build key would make the build command more intuitive
pity there's not something that corresponds with in game characters
its all a bit generic... good design isn't about hotkeys<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the sort of stuff (the small stuff) that makes a huge difference.
Easy to learn, hard to master. That is a good attitude towards gaming, not 'if you can't do it, too bad'...
Not everyone has time to/ or plays games 24/7. I am willing to bet my bottom dollar, that whilst UWE love playing games, after working on them day in day out, they probably go home and enjoy their spare time doing other things.
Kids have time to play games day in day out, that is probably 1/3 of everyone who plays games or could play games.
The symbols might not even have to change, just some colour, <b>slightly faster tool tips</b> and and a more aggressive looking attack icon would help. The current icons are just a bit too minimalistic.
The symbols might not even have to change, just some colour, <b>slightly faster tool tips</b> and and a more aggressive looking attack icon would help. The current icons are just a bit too minimalistic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Prevented from scrolling over and finding out the quick key?
Just because someone plays less they shouldnt do it wrong.
Nothing wrong with coloring thou.
I just feel that is something that should be easily understandable for the benefit of the game. Often first impressions make up people's minds about things. If you jump in the comm chair and don't understand what you should be doing (more or less straight away) then people are going to shy back into the fps role more, meaning less proficient commanders and people that don't understand the game as a 'whole'.
Because lets face it, if you don't understand the commanding role you don't understand the methods of strategy/upgrade and possibilities to push the game in certain directions.
@Runteh I agree.
The basics commander experience should be understandable on first impression. Yes good commanders will use hot keys, but the first and the learning experience can be made reasonably easy and fun with a bit of thought. This is a commercial game, learning how to play (well) has to be fun too.
Bug or not jumping to the chair without any knowledge is guaranteed ###### game anyways, a little test in offline wouldnt be too much for the sake of other people playing there, jumping in and expecting to be master is very sad.
Just because you think a certain way about things, does not mean others will do it. That is why some good design would come in useful to creating a successful commander mode.
The only way you could counter it is as AA does it. You have to complete tutorials before you can play online...
It is exactly why you have to design around people as a 'whole' rather than thinking so inwardly.
I am going to draw up a storyboard tonight of what I am getting at so people understand better. But you should be able to learn as you play, and not just through some silly 'text tips' that appear whilst you play.
Of course, I never really look at those icons in RTS since I just use the keybinds, but at the time I played NS2 the keys were not very responsive or reliable.
The alien mode... really needs a lot of work. I still didn't figure out what half the stuff on there was for, but I was convinced it was put there just to confuse me. Once there's more content for it, I think it'd be a nightmare to navigate.
Admittedly, I haven't looked at it for over a month.
The commander has a very small 'logout' at the top right. I actually spent a while clicking the on/off button trying to escape the seat until I found it. Because you interpret that icon (in everyday life) as a 'total' on/off on any piece of electronic product you use. In this case you expect it to exit the chair.
You are right about the alien interface as well, very confusing!
This is exactly what I am talking about.. If I am having similar experiences to you, I expect others are as well. It is just plain bad design.
Also yes, it is still the same.
And I totally agree even if "pro" players never need to look at it, new players do. Heck, the more blocky buildings for SC2 gave me a hard time figuring out which was which at a glance in the build menu initially.
The commander has a very small 'logout' at the top right. I actually spent a while clicking the on/off button trying to escape the seat until I found it. Because you interpret that icon (in everyday life) as a 'total' on/off on any piece of electronic product you use. In this case you expect it to exit the chair.
You are right about the alien interface as well, very confusing!
This is exactly what I am talking about.. If I am having similar experiences to you, I expect others are as well. It is just plain bad design.
Also yes, it is still the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes the On/Off button shouldn't be more prominent than 'Logout'. Yes 'Logout' should be located far away from the other buttons (because clicking it by accident could have catastrophic consequences).
On/Off seems to be top right, and the bar is clearer. Some could be better though imo. Will post again shortly. I don't have the Alpha installed atm :(
Easy to learn, hard to master. That is a good attitude towards gaming, not 'if you can't do it, too bad'...
Not everyone has time to/ or plays games 24/7. I am willing to bet my bottom dollar, that whilst UWE love playing games, after working on them day in day out, they probably go home and enjoy their spare time doing other things.
Kids have time to play games day in day out, that is probably 1/3 of everyone who plays games or could play games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you're wrong if you think i'm elitist. i've never played ns competitively. i'm just stating facts. you're the lynchpin of the marine team when you comm, and one of the worst experiences in NS is playing with an incompetent commander. I don't mind if you *dont know* what the hotkeys are. What I'm bothered by is the fact that you feel it necessary to take control of the marine team without putting in the minimal effort required to familiarize yourself with the role. It's fine to be new to commanding. It's not fine to be a noob to commanding and insist that everything is catered to you.
Put it this way. Everyone else on the team is trying to win with any skill and resource they have available (unless they're griefing). They're not sitting down with skulks and having afternoon tea-time. Why do you think you suddenly get to half-ass it once you take the comm chair? Honestly, it takes what, 10 seconds to mouse over each button and look at it, and think about the hotkeys? I mean even if you only memorize the hotkey for med packs, you're going to be much more effective.