<!--quoteo(post=1813215:date=Dec 4 2010, 12:52 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 4 2010, 12:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stresstest server just wont die, even with loads upon loads of hydra/turret spam :D
I manage to kill 2 hives due to lag issue though. Axe and shotty<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dropped like 500 hydra or more!!! Amazing performance instead of instant death :P
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
<!--quoteo(post=1813217:date=Dec 4 2010, 12:59 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Dec 4 2010, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dropped like 500 hydra or more!!! Amazing performance instead of instant death :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Damn you Wolf, I wanted to punch you so hard when you did that haha.
Regardless, I still am amazed it did not crash at all, but the performance was abysmal. Hydras are also not the only thing making the server all nice and choked up. It feels like the server is not receiving half the information from clients, and instead is like "I think you're here, cause you're not saying you're anywhere else to me." Probably isn't getting those messages because of some other reason other than hydras.
Yeah, I got a few kills as skulk and marine, even with the hydra spam. Before the hydras appear the stress test server is quite playable. It's still sort of playable with hydras but the rubberbanding at that point makes kills more luck than skill.
I'm really hoping there's more optimization done soon, considering big decisions were just pushed through, and there was balancing. It still feels like it's really too, how do I put it, hard to tell whats happening in high-action parts? Everything else seems to work fairly decent, but it seems like as soon as you get into more than 1v1 combat it feels like the visuals have a hard time keeping up with what's happening.
Does anyone else see this?
Not don't get me wrong, I'm not hating, by all means I LOVE it so far, I just sadface real hard about this issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1813225:date=Dec 4 2010, 02:11 AM:name=Machinaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Machinaster @ Dec 4 2010, 02:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm really hoping there's more optimization done soon, considering big decisions were just pushed through, and there was balancing. It still feels like it's really too, how do I put it, hard to tell whats happening in high-action parts? Everything else seems to work fairly decent, but it seems like as soon as you get into more than 1v1 combat it feels like the visuals have a hard time keeping up with what's happening.
Does anyone else see this?
Not don't get me wrong, I'm not hating, by all means I LOVE it so far, I just sadface real hard about this issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
probably because the server's updating at ~20-30 ticks per second
<!--quoteo(post=1813231:date=Dec 4 2010, 01:39 AM:name=Lemming Jesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lemming Jesus @ Dec 4 2010, 01:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813231"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's looking like the game is almost ready for beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*my best pre-teen girl voice* Puuuuhhleeeeez!
Does it really matter what it's called? Insinuating that the game should have stayed in alpha is complete nonsense. It doesn't make one bit of a difference if it's in alpha, beta, gamma, or stevie except in who is allowed to play it. It's all "in-development" and "not-effing-final", so what's the point of getting your genitals of choice in a knot (be it square, fisherman's, or bowtie) about semantics? Save that for when it's released. Or for a game that some big publisher is coming out with (they love to hear constant complaints about completely ridiculous non-issues... or at least they have a cellar full of unpaid interns to deal with it).
Honestly my only conclusion to NS2 is, the game looks really good, but plays disgusting. Even on a decent server with ~50 ping, netcode is disgusting. Shooting as a lerk I have to shoot roughly 2 characters ahead of my target to get hits. With a fade, I feel like I'm next to the person slicing him 7 times, but infact I've only hit him once. Unless they're absolutely stationary the netcode or registration is just horrible. I know what you've done is a massive achievement, but everything is still so glitchy. It's like, everything works, but nothing works well, I think is the best way to describe my experience with NS2. There's other big game stoppers for me, such as random connection problem disconnects in the middle of games.. armories just not working so you have to build another one? These major gameplay issues which make NS2 more frustrating to play than fun, because I'm trying my hardest to get joy from it, with a TON of little things like Skulk leap glitching, movement stuttering, randomly falling through the map, animations glitching on EVERYTHING, spawning in walls 30% of the time, the ability to blink THROUGH walls, invisible lerks? flamethrower blinding, shooting a fade with a flamethrower for over 10 seconds and not killing it, the interface for.. well everything is horrible and perhaps you should bring some usability expert in because what we have for.. server browser.. commander interfaces.. buy interfaces.. evolve interfaces.. it's all pretty terrible right now... and just generally everything seeming so shuddery and slow.. it FEELS buggy.
I've actually beta tested a fair few games, and honestly with the progress so far I'd say the game is just about ready to go into <b>alpha</b> testing. If I received this as a beta product I'd have to send it back until some major issues were fixed. It's not fun to play, and I really hope this isn't going to be any reflection of the final product, because I want NS2 to be a success, but everything has been so game stopping for me thus far.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
You do realize that it is a closed beta for a reason? And for me it runs pretty smoothly what with my Fade killstreak last round until I got exploded by nades which couldn't avoid. This is a first, becuase last few patches even up to the last one were very laggy with players > eight
I've just played a few rounds on their stress test server and as soon as we stopped spamstressing hydra's it was playable.
@jamieshepherd: A beta/alpha isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be for testing, bug fixing, and feature implementation. That's why it's called a beta/alpha <u><b>test</b></u>.
Too many people have been spoiled by big name games' "betas", which were much more like sneak previews or demos. This state is precisely what I'd expect a beta to be like. Traditionally, alpha = feature push, beta = bug fix/optimization/etc. But it's just a word and isn't important until you're at the point of "what is in-development vs released". Had UWE not named anything alpha or beta, and instead just went with "in-development", nobody would be complaining (well... in theory). The word war would at least cease to exist, and the misguided expectations from those words wouldn't be an issue as to what the state of the game SHOULD be in.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1813238:date=Dec 4 2010, 07:11 AM:name=sickboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sickboy @ Dec 4 2010, 07:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Had UWE not named anything alpha or beta, and instead just went with "in-development", nobody would be complaining (well... in theory).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1813238:date=Dec 4 2010, 07:11 AM:name=sickboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sickboy @ Dec 4 2010, 07:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@jamieshepherd: A beta/alpha isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be for testing, bug fixing, and feature implementation. That's why it's called a beta/alpha <u><b>test</b></u>.
Too many people have been spoiled by big name games' "betas", which were much more like sneak previews or demos. This state is precisely what I'd expect a beta to be like. Traditionally, alpha = feature push, beta = bug fix/optimization/etc. But it's just a word and isn't important until you're at the point of "what is in-development vs released". Had UWE not named anything alpha or beta, and instead just went with "in-development", nobody would be complaining (well... in theory). The word war would at least cease to exist, and the misguided expectations from those words wouldn't be an issue as to what the state of the game SHOULD be in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.
just ran 4 games a no server crash but did get a 1 client crash. Plays much better, one round we spammed to test.
4 players,10 turrets and some where around 50 hydras before the fps dropped to around 8. Odd thing was, so many hydras there was no room for a crag anywhere. Aliens are very overpowering and rines can't seem to get a second commander chair up but balance comes with time.
Anyways the server is still running smooth capped at 6 players for now, good job.
PS: macs need a shorter cool down, good skulksters wipe them out to fast and it's game over.
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 4 2010, 02:21 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 4 2010, 02:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I'd still stand by exactly what I said before. I've alpha and beta tested many games as well (mmos, singleplayer, multiplayer, etc... although no console games because consoles are for hippies). Many do indeed play quite well (all big, AAA titles), but true beta tests (opposed to stress tests, like MMOs do) are buggy as all get-out. It's what they are for. They aren't to clear up "remaining" bugs (although the definition of remaining is subjective... in a literal sense they ARE cleaning up the remaining bugs, as there were fixes beforehand and therefore the rest are "remaining"), but rather to clear up bugs/optimization in general.
More importantly, <b>it doesn't matter what is is called</b>. It's in-development and therefore will be broken until, well, it isn't. Then it gets released. Saying it should have stayed as alpha or beta when the game isn't released is counter productive. Even if they reverted and said "it's an alpha again", what does that change? Nothing. Development will go on exactly the same as before. Bugs will still exist. Stuff will be broken/missing/placeholder.
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 4 2010, 07:21 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 4 2010, 07:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you considered at all that different dev studios have to use different development strategies?
You're comparing Star Wars beta with NS2 beta, but you made no comparison between the studios. Unknown Worlds are doing it all themselves with a tiny team and a very limited budget. Star Wars Old Republic is from what I gather being developed by <b>Bioware</b> (Mass Effect, Dragon Age Origins) and published by <b>EA</b>. Why do you think their 'beta' was so polished in comparison with NS2? You're basically making the argument that NS2 sucks because it isn't being developed by a big studio - how is that constructive in any way?
<i>Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 4 2010, 02:21 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 4 2010, 02:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cannot even try to compare a game like The Old Republic which most likely has millions of dollars as a budget to an independent dev team that started out by creating a mod for halflife. You just look stupid saying so.
Games like the old republic and other betas for games from big dev teams have a ton of internal testing before they even come close to a beta... and they have the resources to have a ###### ton of internal testing.
This "beta' for NS2 is essentially internal testing by using the public because UWE does not have the resources to test half this crap with the small team that they are.
They built this engine from the ground up with a small team. OF COURSE IT'S GOING TO BE BUGGY. Complaining about how bad the netcode and the engine is running isnt going to help anything. New engines take time to get the problems worked out... and I expect this game to be in it's closed "beta' stage for a while.
The team has been working hard each week to release patches(releasing 2 in this week alone) and has stated that the next big patch will be attempting to improve optimization and net code stuff.
Get off your "I've beta tested games before and they ran better than this" high horse and do something constructive like point out small bugs that you find.
As a full-time student with a part-time SQA job, I can't say that I have "a good amount of time" to commit to testing NS2, though I wish I did. All the same, I'll make an effort to report bugs if I see them.
"Please post comments on the topic Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 158 released here"
BUGS 1. Rockdown: Area East of MS where slanted Fence is. (needs to be filled in,eggs get stuck under it) 2. After death with no IP i spawned in CC and couldn't do anything,after alien team killed CC i was free to meet my death by lerk. 3. Mac unresponsive to repetitive builds, ie turrets. seemed like a disobedient teenager (build it now, no...none of my friends have to!!!)
Pluses
1. Turrets re-aim faster +1 2. less lag (latency) with hydra/turret spam 3. Turret sounds are awesome 4. Rifle seems to own more like it did for starter gun in NS1 +1 5. Entering/exiting CC much faster now 6. Gorge was actually quite fun when setting up hydras for front line offense.
Negatives
1. Fades still to cheap (to early in game) 2. Marines die before spawning cinematic even starts when at mercy of aliens on IP (2 second spawn protection would help) 3. Still no keybind setting for flashlight or reset binds option
That was mostly from marine team point of view but i did go alien to see how early fade came then owned MS a bit to easily.
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 4 2010, 07:21 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 4 2010, 07:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right. Email the team for your refund and come back when its all polished.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 3 2010, 11:21 PM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 3 2010, 11:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, but UWE is really pioneering a new method of game development. As far as I can tell, the current methods are 1) to bootstrap until you get traditional investors or 2) work for or get bought by a major game development studio. Instead, UWE is inviting its NS1 community to be the investors and testers so that the game can be true to the community, rather than some faceless bureaucrats at EA, etc. I hope they are successful so that it inspires other potential game developers to do the same.
I still require that the game play better/smoother (aesthetics, performance), I hope that happens before the new year.
Namely, Frames Per Second - 800 x 600 - Full Screen = 40 fps, but drops to 10-15 during fights and if I'm commander, and even worse when I'm commander in a fight (5-10); (As a benchmark, 30-40 fps in 1200x1024 Battlefield Bad Company 2 - medium to high settings (some things are on medium, like shadows, rest on high))
Jerkiness: Anyone who's played marines, or even skulk, will notice the how hard it is to aim; Esp. when moving around. Or, the lack of smoothness when sniping as a skulk - may be related to the poor frame rate, but really seems like some frames of the animations on player models are missing
UI: UI still disappears for aliens- If I open console, or put another overlay (like the buy menu), it will remove the other UI from the screen - Say, I start as skulk, it has my Hp, Energy and Resources available (for lifeform upgrades).. but as soon as I open Console (to run r_stats for my frames/stats, exit console) <b>either my hp or resources or both will disappear altogether.</b>
----------------------------------------
<b><i>Now that the networking issues are mostly fixed</i></b>, these issues would take the game to the next level, and improve playability; These fixes would help NS2 win Indie awards too. They have a powerful, innovative engine with the best dynamic lighting, graphical capability ever seen in such a long time (I can only think of a handful few other games that have similar capabilities).
The issues I've pointed out will make the game a favourite for old and new players alike for many years to come.
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never tested build 157, but 158 is deffinitelly worse than 156.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Disagree, a recent playtest, besides the issues above, and I can say this one of the better patch updates/releases recently.
<!--quoteo(post=1813273:date=Dec 4 2010, 05:03 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Dec 4 2010, 05:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i really ###### hate lerks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya I noticed a huge amount of lerk abuse especially in west access (rockdown). Lerk sits in the rafters and just spikes the comm chair to death and its almost impossible to shoot them up there.. but this is really just a map exploit.
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 4 2010, 08:21 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 4 2010, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well this guy has a point. A software in beta state is supposed* to be feature complete but haven't reached the bug-free-ness required for a final release. It has nothing to do with UWE (indi) vs any other big game studio, it's just about the term "beta" if I got this guy right.
UWE should declare their current releases as "in-development" snapshot so that this discussions about not being beta and whatsoever can finally stop. Always so much crap-talk on definitions and words as if people have nothing other to do and can't focus on the important things... Well sorry for that complain but I encounter this way too often (esp. in university where students argue one hour about words and definitions but didn't got any clue about the "thing behind the words").
Cheers, looking forward to the next "in-development" snapshot from this awesome game and the great UWE developers.
* of course some individuals have their own definition of everything, but i'm talking about the common definition approved by the majority (with technical know how) which you can look up in your favorite encyclopedia.
<!--quoteo(post=1813244:date=Dec 4 2010, 08:21 AM:name=jamieshepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jamieshepherd @ Dec 4 2010, 08:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Difference is that those DEV companies are huge. They have hired testers and so can be a lot more flexible with all that stuff. Also they have plenty of money which indie game developers don't.
And you say this isn't a beta test but you probably forget the descriptions of alpha and beta:
Alpha testing: When you hear "alpha testing," it refers to when the testing is done, not how the testing was done. As a rule, alpha testing is done inside the company. In some cases, alpha testing is outsourced to other companies.
Beta testing: Testing done after a release to a narrow audience The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try the product and give feedback before you release it in the open.
Every company does the beta/alpha testing different so stop saying "I know what a beta is and this is not one." Because clearly you don't know what a beta test is.
<!--quoteo(post=1813287:date=Dec 4 2010, 01:30 PM:name=rutix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rutix @ Dec 4 2010, 01:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Difference is that those DEV companies are huge. They have hired testers and so can be a lot more flexible with all that stuff. Also they have plenty of money which indie game developers don't.
And you say this isn't a beta test but you probably forget the descriptions of alpha and beta:
Alpha testing: When you hear "alpha testing," it refers to when the testing is done, not how the testing was done. As a rule, alpha testing is done inside the company. In some cases, alpha testing is outsourced to other companies.
Beta testing: Testing done after a release to a narrow audience The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try the product and give feedback before you release it in the open.
Every company does the beta/alpha testing different so stop saying "I know what a beta is and this is not one." Because clearly you don't know what a beta test is.
A website is not a good source for definitions, especially not a website from one private man as the site above. Your last sentence make look you stupid, read what you quoted again:
<i>The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try <b>the product</b> and give feedback before you release it in the open.</i>
What do you think does "the product" mean in this context? I'll give you a hint: not a development snapshot from the development cycle. Test driven development, agile development, traditional software testing... not the same.
<!--quoteo(post=1813292:date=Dec 4 2010, 12:54 PM:name=spamilator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spamilator @ Dec 4 2010, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1813292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A website is not a good source for definitions, especially not a website from one private man as the site above. Your last sentence make look you stupid, read what you quoted again:
<i>The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try <b>the product</b> and give feedback before you release it in the open.</i>
What do you think does "the product" mean in this context? I'll give you a hint: not a development snapshot from the development cycle. Test driven development, agile development, traditional software testing... not the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this actually what you're going to say someone looks stupid over?
Beta refers to testing, the product is not finished.
We are testing an unfinished product. If you expect it to be up to some imaginary bar that you have decided to set based on your own personal interpretation of a reasonably subjective term; then Im sorry, come back later when the game meets your standards. If you don't have constructive feedback then noone cares. Come back later.
Comments
I manage to kill 2 hives due to lag issue though. Axe and shotty<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dropped like 500 hydra or more!!! Amazing performance instead of instant death :P
Damn you Wolf, I wanted to punch you so hard when you did that haha.
Regardless, I still am amazed it did not crash at all, but the performance was abysmal.
Hydras are also not the only thing making the server all nice and choked up. It feels like the server is not receiving half the information from clients, and instead is like "I think you're here, cause you're not saying you're anywhere else to me." Probably isn't getting those messages because of some other reason other than hydras.
Great patch though, every little bit helps.
Does anyone else see this?
Not don't get me wrong, I'm not hating, by all means I LOVE it so far, I just sadface real hard about this issue.
Does anyone else see this?
Not don't get me wrong, I'm not hating, by all means I LOVE it so far, I just sadface real hard about this issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
probably because the server's updating at ~20-30 ticks per second
*my best pre-teen girl voice* Puuuuhhleeeeez!
Does it really matter what it's called? Insinuating that the game should have stayed in alpha is complete nonsense. It doesn't make one bit of a difference if it's in alpha, beta, gamma, or stevie except in who is allowed to play it. It's all "in-development" and "not-effing-final", so what's the point of getting your genitals of choice in a knot (be it square, fisherman's, or bowtie) about semantics? Save that for when it's released. Or for a game that some big publisher is coming out with (they love to hear constant complaints about completely ridiculous non-issues... or at least they have a cellar full of unpaid interns to deal with it).
I've actually beta tested a fair few games, and honestly with the progress so far I'd say the game is just about ready to go into <b>alpha</b> testing. If I received this as a beta product I'd have to send it back until some major issues were fixed. It's not fun to play, and I really hope this isn't going to be any reflection of the final product, because I want NS2 to be a success, but everything has been so game stopping for me thus far.
I've just played a few rounds on their stress test server and as soon as we stopped spamstressing hydra's it was playable.
Too many people have been spoiled by big name games' "betas", which were much more like sneak previews or demos. This state is precisely what I'd expect a beta to be like. Traditionally, alpha = feature push, beta = bug fix/optimization/etc. But it's just a word and isn't important until you're at the point of "what is in-development vs released". Had UWE not named anything alpha or beta, and instead just went with "in-development", nobody would be complaining (well... in theory). The word war would at least cease to exist, and the misguided expectations from those words wouldn't be an issue as to what the state of the game SHOULD be in.
<img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Too many people have been spoiled by big name games' "betas", which were much more like sneak previews or demos. This state is precisely what I'd expect a beta to be like. Traditionally, alpha = feature push, beta = bug fix/optimization/etc. But it's just a word and isn't important until you're at the point of "what is in-development vs released". Had UWE not named anything alpha or beta, and instead just went with "in-development", nobody would be complaining (well... in theory). The word war would at least cease to exist, and the misguided expectations from those words wouldn't be an issue as to what the state of the game SHOULD be in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rubbish. I've been invited to game test a lot of releases, most recently Star Wars - The Old Republic. While buggy, it was completely playable and fun, and there were only 2 classes and 10 levels to play. This is what a beta test is, it's a game play test to a limited number of users pre-launch to clear up any remaining bugs on different hardware, and to balance game play. Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.
4 players,10 turrets and some where around 50 hydras before the fps dropped to around 8.
Odd thing was, so many hydras there was no room for a crag anywhere.
Aliens are very overpowering and rines can't seem to get a second commander chair up but balance comes with time.
Anyways the server is still running smooth capped at 6 players for now, good job.
PS: macs need a shorter cool down, good skulksters wipe them out to fast and it's game over.
And I'd still stand by exactly what I said before. I've alpha and beta tested many games as well (mmos, singleplayer, multiplayer, etc... although no console games because consoles are for hippies). Many do indeed play quite well (all big, AAA titles), but true beta tests (opposed to stress tests, like MMOs do) are buggy as all get-out. It's what they are for. They aren't to clear up "remaining" bugs (although the definition of remaining is subjective... in a literal sense they ARE cleaning up the remaining bugs, as there were fixes beforehand and therefore the rest are "remaining"), but rather to clear up bugs/optimization in general.
More importantly, <b>it doesn't matter what is is called</b>. It's in-development and therefore will be broken until, well, it isn't. Then it gets released. Saying it should have stayed as alpha or beta when the game isn't released is counter productive. Even if they reverted and said "it's an alpha again", what does that change? Nothing. Development will go on exactly the same as before. Bugs will still exist. Stuff will be broken/missing/placeholder.
Have you considered at all that different dev studios have to use different development strategies?
You're comparing Star Wars beta with NS2 beta, but you made no comparison between the studios. Unknown Worlds are doing it all themselves with a tiny team and a very limited budget. Star Wars Old Republic is from what I gather being developed by <b>Bioware</b> (Mass Effect, Dragon Age Origins) and published by <b>EA</b>. Why do you think their 'beta' was so polished in comparison with NS2? You're basically making the argument that NS2 sucks because it isn't being developed by a big studio - how is that constructive in any way?
<i>Trust me when I say I've tested enough to understand what a beta is. This is not one.</i>
What a revelation.
You cannot even try to compare a game like The Old Republic which most likely has millions of dollars as a budget to an independent dev team that started out by creating a mod for halflife. You just look stupid saying so.
Games like the old republic and other betas for games from big dev teams have a ton of internal testing before they even come close to a beta... and they have the resources to have a ###### ton of internal testing.
This "beta' for NS2 is essentially internal testing by using the public because UWE does not have the resources to test half this crap with the small team that they are.
They built this engine from the ground up with a small team. OF COURSE IT'S GOING TO BE BUGGY. Complaining about how bad the netcode and the engine is running isnt going to help anything. New engines take time to get the problems worked out... and I expect this game to be in it's closed "beta' stage for a while.
The team has been working hard each week to release patches(releasing 2 in this week alone) and has stated that the next big patch will be attempting to improve optimization and net code stuff.
Get off your "I've beta tested games before and they ran better than this" high horse and do something constructive like point out small bugs that you find.
Peace dudes
"Please post comments on the topic Natural Selection 2 News Update - NS2 Build 158 released here"
BUGS
1. Rockdown: Area East of MS where slanted Fence is. (needs to be filled in,eggs get stuck under it)
2. After death with no IP i spawned in CC and couldn't do anything,after alien team killed CC i was free to meet my death by lerk.
3. Mac unresponsive to repetitive builds, ie turrets. seemed like a disobedient teenager (build it now, no...none of my friends have to!!!)
Pluses
1. Turrets re-aim faster +1
2. less lag (latency) with hydra/turret spam
3. Turret sounds are awesome
4. Rifle seems to own more like it did for starter gun in NS1 +1
5. Entering/exiting CC much faster now
6. Gorge was actually quite fun when setting up hydras for front line offense.
Negatives
1. Fades still to cheap (to early in game)
2. Marines die before spawning cinematic even starts when at mercy of aliens on IP (2 second spawn protection would help)
3. Still no keybind setting for flashlight or reset binds option
That was mostly from marine team point of view but i did go alien to see how early fade came then owned MS a bit to easily.
You're right. Email the team for your refund and come back when its all polished.
Thanx for this quick update btw
Fair enough, but UWE is really pioneering a new method of game development. As far as I can tell, the current methods are 1) to bootstrap until you get traditional investors or 2) work for or get bought by a major game development studio. Instead, UWE is inviting its NS1 community to be the investors and testers so that the game can be true to the community, rather than some faceless bureaucrats at EA, etc. I hope they are successful so that it inspires other potential game developers to do the same.
I think the pre-orders are the major funding now, but they weren't a year ago.
Namely,
Frames Per Second - 800 x 600 - Full Screen = 40 fps, but drops to 10-15 during fights and if I'm commander, and even worse when I'm commander in a fight (5-10);
(As a benchmark, 30-40 fps in 1200x1024 Battlefield Bad Company 2 - medium to high settings (some things are on medium, like shadows, rest on high))
Jerkiness:
Anyone who's played marines, or even skulk, will notice the how hard it is to aim; Esp. when moving around.
Or, the lack of smoothness when sniping as a skulk - may be related to the poor frame rate, but really seems like some frames of the animations on player models are missing
UI:
UI still disappears for aliens- If I open console, or put another overlay (like the buy menu), it will remove the other UI from the screen -
Say, I start as skulk, it has my Hp, Energy and Resources available (for lifeform upgrades).. but as soon as I open Console (to run r_stats
for my frames/stats, exit console) <b>either my hp or resources or both will disappear altogether.</b>
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<b><i>Now that the networking issues are mostly fixed</i></b>, these issues would take the game to the next level, and improve playability;
These fixes would help NS2 win Indie awards too. They have a powerful, innovative engine with the best dynamic lighting, graphical capability ever seen in such a long time (I can only think of a handful few other games that have similar capabilities).
The issues I've pointed out will make the game a favourite for old and new players alike for many years to come.
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never tested build 157, but 158 is deffinitelly worse than 156.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disagree, a recent playtest, besides the issues above, and I can say this one of the better patch updates/releases recently.
Ya I noticed a huge amount of lerk abuse especially in west access (rockdown). Lerk sits in the rafters and just spikes the comm chair to death and its almost impossible to shoot them up there.. but this is really just a map exploit.
Well this guy has a point. A software in beta state is supposed* to be feature complete but haven't reached the bug-free-ness required for a final release. It has nothing to do with UWE (indi) vs any other big game studio, it's just about the term "beta" if I got this guy right.
UWE should declare their current releases as "in-development" snapshot so that this discussions about not being beta and whatsoever can finally stop. Always so much crap-talk on definitions and words as if people have nothing other to do and can't focus on the important things... Well sorry for that complain but I encounter this way too often (esp. in university where students argue one hour about words and definitions but didn't got any clue about the "thing behind the words").
Cheers, looking forward to the next "in-development" snapshot from this awesome game and the great UWE developers.
* of course some individuals have their own definition of everything, but i'm talking about the common definition approved by the majority (with technical know how) which you can look up in your favorite encyclopedia.
Difference is that those DEV companies are huge. They have hired testers and so can be a lot more flexible with all that stuff. Also they have plenty of money which indie game developers don't.
And you say this isn't a beta test but you probably forget the descriptions of alpha and beta:
Alpha testing:
When you hear "alpha testing," it refers to when the testing is done, not how the testing was done. As a rule, alpha testing is done inside the company. In some cases, alpha testing is outsourced to other companies.
Beta testing:
Testing done after a release to a narrow audience
The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try the product and give feedback before you release it in the open.
Every company does the beta/alpha testing different so stop saying "I know what a beta is and this is not one." Because clearly you don't know what a beta test is.
Source: <a href="http://www.qatutor.com/glossary.html" target="_blank">http://www.qatutor.com/glossary.html</a>
And you say this isn't a beta test but you probably forget the descriptions of alpha and beta:
Alpha testing:
When you hear "alpha testing," it refers to when the testing is done, not how the testing was done. As a rule, alpha testing is done inside the company. In some cases, alpha testing is outsourced to other companies.
Beta testing:
Testing done after a release to a narrow audience
The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try the product and give feedback before you release it in the open.
Every company does the beta/alpha testing different so stop saying "I know what a beta is and this is not one." Because clearly you don't know what a beta test is.
Source: <a href="http://www.qatutor.com/glossary.html" target="_blank">http://www.qatutor.com/glossary.html</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A website is not a good source for definitions, especially not a website from one private man as the site above. Your last sentence make look you stupid, read what you quoted again:
<i>The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try <b>the product</b> and give feedback before you release it in the open.</i>
What do you think does "the product" mean in this context? I'll give you a hint: not a development snapshot from the development cycle. Test driven development, agile development, traditional software testing... not the same.
<i>The value of beta testing is allowing some representatives of the target audience to try <b>the product</b> and give feedback before you release it in the open.</i>
What do you think does "the product" mean in this context? I'll give you a hint: not a development snapshot from the development cycle. Test driven development, agile development, traditional software testing... not the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this actually what you're going to say someone looks stupid over?
Beta refers to testing, the product is not finished.
We are testing an unfinished product. If you expect it to be up to some imaginary bar that you have decided to set based on your own personal interpretation of a reasonably subjective term; then Im sorry, come back later when the game meets your standards. If you don't have constructive feedback then noone cares. Come back later.