Marine commanding is much more responsive now. My main gripe gameplay-wise is that sentries now cost 20 carbon each to build (!!!). It was a lot more reasonable at 20 plasma or 5 carbon. I'm hoping this was a mistake.
Most servers I've seen have crashed mid-game, although I've found one so far that keeps chugging round after round.
Also, rockdown is still ridiculously easy for aliens to lock down. Every expansion on the map is literally closer to the alien start than marine start. Even the western expansion (the only one marines can seriously take and hold) takes less time for a drifter to float to than a MAC from their respective starting zones. The middle expansion desperately needs to be moved to the southeast, near the marine start.
I do like the new room in tram, though. It's a shame that more servers don't host tram.
While the marines now have a much better chance against skulks in the early game, at least in rockdown it's still too easy to ninja-drop west hive and lock them out. Also, sentries costing 20 carbon pretty much prohibits using them at all, hope that was a bug/overlook.
<!--quoteo(post=1823550:date=Jan 12 2011, 06:23 AM:name=hookeyed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hookeyed @ Jan 12 2011, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I noticed 3 new biodome textures. Is there a way we could get the models?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure, same way we got all the other ones: Wait
I entered the CC when a shulk what chewing on it, I guess I entered it right when it got destroyed. I was still in commander view, but it lagged the server. I couldn't get out or get to the main menu. In the console it spammed missing textures messages. Right away everybody complained it became unplayable and the connection problems detected messages started to popup.
<!--quoteo(post=1823533:date=Jan 12 2011, 09:55 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Jan 12 2011, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823533"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm stuck at black screen while starting the game now. Going to have to do some reinstalling and file verification once I get time for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You just have to delete the content of the folder (as far as i recall) c:/user/<username>/app data//roaming/naturalselection2 and start the game again (worked for me)
Patch day = time to throw in one's two eurocents worth of wisdom ...
Executive summary <!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->============<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Nothing spectacular. I still can't hit sh1t as a marine. Some artistic/functional improvements like new com-menue and the infestation pond scum in the hive leave a favorable impression.
Can we hope to see weapons that would stay on the ground until someone pick it up or if alien destroy it (like if it was a "building" that require one or two bites to become inoperative ?).
Summary: flamers are still lame, leap is borked, parasite is messed up, Skulk vs Marine sort of messed, lerk has some graphical issues with its model , Tram map has issues with crawlspaces and roof spaces.
I was wondering if the devs actually read what players are saying... especially about the flamer ?
Its understandable that these types of issues are in the first time a new weapon is put in the game, but its about 3 patches and the flamer still shoots through walls, still blinds alien combatants , and is still waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpowered damagewise.
I got touched by a flame as a lerk, and lacking anywhere to go to heal I had to sit and watch as I went from a fully healed up lerk to nearly dead ( about 130 HP -> 50 HP ), this is frustrating as a player as its not exactly demanding of the Marine wielding the flamer to set Aliens alight and its not like theres a tonne of options to avoid getting flamed... except not fight. Staying out of flame range is not always an option, corridors are tight and the flamer has a long range.
Moving on...
The new ( fixed ) Skulk vs Marine : I caught a few Marines solo and off guard, bit them in the ass a few times but they dont drop...they start hopping around, or even just moving about and I cant hit them at all. One Marine ran aound the hive room against 2 Skulks with a switchaxe and didnt drop. Seems now that Marines survive the initial contact with a Skulk and have time to move about means the hit reg of a Skulk biting a moving target comes into effect , and it seems the reg is bad here.
Parasite... who in the dev team thought it was a good idea to add a 2 sec delay to fire a parasite once you switch to the ability, was it too imba to switch to parasite when at range and back to bite at melee range ? Who ever complained about Parasite being too powerfull ? Each time I switched to Parasite I couldnt fire the first shot till at least 2 secs after selecting the ability.
Non upgraded Leap is a mess, sometimes it hops ( just hear the noise and see the front claws flailing) other times it jumps miles up ...at least twice as I was looking up.
Lerk , graphical issue with spikes ... switch to spikes, zoom in for sniper mode and fire off a single spike , the model doesnt reload the spike even if you switch back to un zoomed spike. The little spore clouds leaking from the lerks spore gun is a neat effect , seems to cut off early though.
I also noted more clearly how the game likes to 'correct' my position, I will run to a ledge and stop at the edge and the game will move me forward just a little extra causing me to react and pull back... I initially thought it was momentum in the game but its not consistant, so I figured it was the server correcting my position.
Tram map needs some attention, too many areas that look like they can be passed under or through by a skulk / lerk / Gorge only to block you... example that new stuff in that hologram area in expansion... the lower crawlspace does not allow a Skulk to enter it, I had to go to the top crawlspace. Had issues also in the starting hive area up in the ceiling space, too many areas that are not clear if you can move around in... makes the camera jerk about and pushed you about in a awkward fashion. Again in Alien start, the crawl space under the platform , half of it is high enough to enter but the other half is like a pixel too low... you cant see the difference just one part will block you for no apparent reason.
To end my boring tirade on a positive note: During my playthrough didnt blackscreen (lua:206), didnt rubber band quiet so much ( though it was only a small 8 player server ), and players were commenting on how nice the commander changes were ( didnt get a chance to comm myself ).
i wonder why they keep fixing all this useless $hit while the game still has those lag/fps problems... i cant even play properly to test all the features, so i'm not even gonna bother downloading this patch until i see some comments that general performance has improved (on the next patch)
Well, most of the time it has been laggy as hell (ping was fine with around 50. Maybe related to server memory leak? 160 was fine most of the time). When it wasnt I had the feeling that aliens have a lot harder start now due to 2vs3bites improvement and assault rifle chages(?) and once flamethrowers are out its now even more "gg". Please address this baby somehow soon. It's getting boring testing the game when in 80to90% of games the only reasonable thing to do is "gg rr" once FTs are out.
Nice changes though. Hope to be able to test seem soon more in detail on a non-laggy server.
Everytime I join a server, I get connection problems detected and have to re-join 2 more times, until I can play.
Also: Why do turrets use carbon now (or plasma, I don't know which on is what, but you know what I mean). It's impossbile to defend your base earlier in the game. Only on tram with 4+ extractors it's possible to affort turrets and doing your researching etc.
I think there is a problem about the calculation of the number of pings. Better pings are higher than my pings. USA players are about 80-100 pings and I am 50-60 pings while connected from Turkey in a USA server.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Yeah the pings are off on the scoreboard, connecting from Australia to an American server shows a ping of 60ms sometimes for me, expected at least 150/200ms.
<!--quoteo(post=1823576:date=Jan 12 2011, 03:36 PM:name=yimmasabi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yimmasabi @ Jan 12 2011, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823576"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think there is a problem about the calculation of the number of pings. Better pings are higher than my pings. USA players are about 80-100 pings and I am 50-60 pings while connected from Turkey in a USA server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that explains a lot - I didnt know pings could be miscalculated by games like that.
<!--quoteo(post=1823583:date=Jan 12 2011, 10:10 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jan 12 2011, 10:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well that explains a lot - I didnt know pings could be miscalculated by games like that.
Is there a way to see an accurate ping?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ping [server ip address] in a shell/command prompt.
Gave the new build a try. Marine rifle feels better but is almost silent - weird.
Changes to tram map are good, the added platform in marine spawn will help them flush out any lerks hiding up on the crane. The expansion looks like it should now with the cool green hologram rightfully taking its place in the middle of the room, and the powernode moved away from the command chair spot so things arent as crammed as before. All the commander UI buttons were perfectly responsive and the macs followed every order correctly.
UWE Crew: Look guys, we made all these fantastic changes, fixing bugs all over the place. Time to strap on your marine boots and kick some alien ass! Sir_Knumskull: But there still is this bug Player: And that other one John_Doe: And where is my Onos? I want to take him for a ride!
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
What some of you don't realize is how the team goes about fixing things. Imagine the fixes coming in a number of tiers, gameplay and performance. The bulk, if not the all, of the gameplay changes were LUA changes made predominantly by Flayra. These are ones that he can do without interfering in the engine or game written in C++. This obviously excludes anywhere where Flash was taken out and replaced by LUA, however, I would imagine this would take some small programming work to get done.
The bulk of the changes made to the engine, or performance, are in C++. These changes come from Max, and I believe one or two other programmers that help. These changes cannot be easily made like LUA gameplay changes, and also many times are not documented as there are core rendering and engine optimization tweaks, changes and cleanup being made that wouldn't interest the NS2 community.
Have full faith that the performance changes that we have received is a full week's worth of hard work by the programmers to improve performance. This is a big step for NS2, performance-wise, and I think it's not too much to ask that people to continue to remain patient. More performance changes will come.
<!--quoteo(post=1823567:date=Jan 12 2011, 02:46 PM:name=hotd0g)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hotd0g @ Jan 12 2011, 02:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i wonder why they keep fixing all this useless $hit while the game still has those lag/fps problems... i cant even play properly to test all the features, so i'm not even gonna bother downloading this patch until i see some comments that general performance has improved (on the next patch)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because 1. The other things are much more easy to fix. 2. Not everyone has the same problems you have.
Take it easy man, this ain't EA or Activision. It's a small independent team. They can't do all at once.
<!--quoteo(post=1823583:date=Jan 12 2011, 02:10 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jan 12 2011, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well that explains a lot - I didnt know pings could be miscalculated by games like that.
Is there a way to see an accurate ping?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> net_stats 1 in console, you can also see the Server Tick there and see if the server starts to struggle :)
<!--quoteo(post=1823531:date=Jan 12 2011, 03:42 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Jan 12 2011, 03:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823531"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rockdown is still "balanced" though, as all marines have to do is get up a cc. Then it's flames, gg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This isn't how it's supposed to work (both teams controlling 2 tech points and equal RT should be "even"). I agree that marines have a pretty good advantage if allowed to tech up to flamethrowers (this does take a pretty long time, though), but aliens have a huge advantage if they can lock marines down to 1 CC. It's fairly easy for aliens to guarantee that marines don't have a chance of getting a 2nd CC up in rockdown. They just need to immediately drop a hive (which builds quickly, heals nearby aliens, and takes a long time to kill) on the west tech point and in central then start building up crags, whips, and hydra to defend. It's possible for a marine team to take it back, but they're fighting an uphill battle basically every rockdown game if one alien at the start plops down hives at the right location.
Also, I'm complaining about this more than the aliens later disadvantage because it looks like pretty much everything for low-tier marines is implemented.
I'm confused why people are moaning about balance on rockdown, i thought that was a map created JUST to test the game engine. Sure it's lightweight and therefore most servers put it on but i thought it was there to allow us to munch/shoot each other to riddle out GE bugs etc?
Comments
Commander interface performance increase is stunning.
Most servers I've seen have crashed mid-game, although I've found one so far that keeps chugging round after round.
Also, rockdown is still ridiculously easy for aliens to lock down. Every expansion on the map is literally closer to the alien start than marine start. Even the western expansion (the only one marines can seriously take and hold) takes less time for a drifter to float to than a MAC from their respective starting zones. The middle expansion desperately needs to be moved to the southeast, near the marine start.
I do like the new room in tram, though. It's a shame that more servers don't host tram.
Also, sentries costing 20 carbon pretty much prohibits using them at all, hope that was a bug/overlook.
Sentries cost 20 carbon of the TEAMS resources; unlike before where it was PERSONAL resources.
We've been able to use like 2 sentries in the space of an hour playing a game.
You mean be<b> fixed</b> and tweaked :(
Edit:
- Looks like the rifle sound is fixed :)
But its very quiet now, the impact sounds are louder O.o
- The macs can still go under the command station ^^
- ip can still build on cc, is it intended? i guess not *g*
- i like the text of the "places like marine start" is bigger, great!
- new blood effects are way better!
Anyway, every version gets closer to final.
-Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I noticed 3 new biodome textures. Is there a way we could get the models?
Sure, same way we got all the other ones: Wait
</b>
I entered the CC when a shulk what chewing on it, I guess I entered it right when it got destroyed. I was still in commander view, but it lagged the server. I couldn't get out or get to the main menu.
In the console it spammed missing textures messages. Right away everybody complained it became unplayable and the connection problems detected messages started to popup.
You just have to delete the content of the folder (as far as i recall) c:/user/<username>/app data//roaming/naturalselection2 and start the game again (worked for me)
Executive summary
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->============<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Nothing spectacular. I still can't hit sh1t as a marine. Some artistic/functional improvements like new com-menue and the infestation pond scum in the hive leave a favorable impression.
I was wondering if the devs actually read what players are saying... especially about the flamer ?
Its understandable that these types of issues are in the first time a new weapon is put in the game, but its about 3 patches and the flamer still shoots through walls, still blinds alien combatants , and is still waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpowered damagewise.
I got touched by a flame as a lerk, and lacking anywhere to go to heal I had to sit and watch as I went from a fully healed up lerk to nearly dead ( about 130 HP -> 50 HP ), this is frustrating as a player as its not exactly demanding of the Marine wielding the flamer to set Aliens alight and its not like theres a tonne of options to avoid getting flamed... except not fight.
Staying out of flame range is not always an option, corridors are tight and the flamer has a long range.
Moving on...
The new ( fixed ) Skulk vs Marine : I caught a few Marines solo and off guard, bit them in the ass a few times but they dont drop...they start hopping around, or even just moving about and I cant hit them at all. One Marine ran aound the hive room against 2 Skulks with a switchaxe and didnt drop.
Seems now that Marines survive the initial contact with a Skulk and have time to move about means the hit reg of a Skulk biting a moving target comes into effect , and it seems the reg is bad here.
Parasite... who in the dev team thought it was a good idea to add a 2 sec delay to fire a parasite once you switch to the ability, was it too imba to switch to parasite when at range and back to bite at melee range ? Who ever complained about Parasite being too powerfull ?
Each time I switched to Parasite I couldnt fire the first shot till at least 2 secs after selecting the ability.
Non upgraded Leap is a mess, sometimes it hops ( just hear the noise and see the front claws flailing) other times it jumps miles up ...at least twice as I was looking up.
Lerk , graphical issue with spikes ... switch to spikes, zoom in for sniper mode and fire off a single spike , the model doesnt reload the spike even if you switch back to un zoomed spike. The little spore clouds leaking from the lerks spore gun is a neat effect , seems to cut off early though.
I also noted more clearly how the game likes to 'correct' my position, I will run to a ledge and stop at the edge and the game will move me forward just a little extra causing me to react and pull back... I initially thought it was momentum in the game but its not consistant, so I figured it was the server correcting my position.
Tram map needs some attention, too many areas that look like they can be passed under or through by a skulk / lerk / Gorge only to block you... example that new stuff in that hologram area in expansion... the lower crawlspace does not allow a Skulk to enter it, I had to go to the top crawlspace.
Had issues also in the starting hive area up in the ceiling space, too many areas that are not clear if you can move around in... makes the camera jerk about and pushed you about in a awkward fashion.
Again in Alien start, the crawl space under the platform , half of it is high enough to enter but the other half is like a pixel too low... you cant see the difference just one part will block you for no apparent reason.
To end my boring tirade on a positive note: During my playthrough didnt blackscreen (lua:206), didnt rubber band quiet so much ( though it was only a small 8 player server ), and players were commenting on how nice the commander changes were ( didnt get a chance to comm myself ).
i cant even play properly to test all the features, so i'm not even gonna bother downloading this patch until i see some comments that general performance has improved (on the next patch)
When it wasnt I had the feeling that aliens have a lot harder start now due to 2vs3bites improvement and assault rifle chages(?) and once flamethrowers are out its now even more "gg". Please address this baby somehow soon. It's getting boring testing the game when in 80to90% of games the only reasonable thing to do is "gg rr" once FTs are out.
Nice changes though. Hope to be able to test seem soon more in detail on a non-laggy server.
Also: Why do turrets use carbon now (or plasma, I don't know which on is what, but you know what I mean). It's impossbile to defend your base earlier in the game. Only on tram with 4+ extractors it's possible to affort turrets and doing your researching etc.
USA players are about 80-100 pings and I am 50-60 pings while connected from Turkey in a USA server.
USA players are about 80-100 pings and I am 50-60 pings while connected from Turkey in a USA server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that explains a lot - I didnt know pings could be miscalculated by games like that.
Is there a way to see an accurate ping?
Is there a way to see an accurate ping?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ping [server ip address] in a shell/command prompt.
Changes to tram map are good, the added platform in marine spawn will help them flush out any lerks hiding up on the crane. The expansion looks like it should now with the cool green hologram rightfully taking its place in the middle of the room, and the powernode moved away from the command chair spot so things arent as crammed as before. All the commander UI buttons were perfectly responsive and the macs followed every order correctly.
Sir_Knumskull: But there still is this bug
Player: And that other one
John_Doe: And where is my Onos? I want to take him for a ride!
*SIGH*
Good job UWE!
The bulk, if not the all, of the gameplay changes were LUA changes made predominantly by Flayra. These are ones that he can do without interfering in the engine or game written in C++. This obviously excludes anywhere where Flash was taken out and replaced by LUA, however, I would imagine this would take some small programming work to get done.
The bulk of the changes made to the engine, or performance, are in C++. These changes come from Max, and I believe one or two other programmers that help. These changes cannot be easily made like LUA gameplay changes, and also many times are not documented as there are core rendering and engine optimization tweaks, changes and cleanup being made that wouldn't interest the NS2 community.
Have full faith that the performance changes that we have received is a full week's worth of hard work by the programmers to improve performance. This is a big step for NS2, performance-wise, and I think it's not too much to ask that people to continue to remain patient. More performance changes will come.
i cant even play properly to test all the features, so i'm not even gonna bother downloading this patch until i see some comments that general performance has improved (on the next patch)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because
1. The other things are much more easy to fix.
2. Not everyone has the same problems you have.
Take it easy man, this ain't EA or Activision. It's a small independent team. They can't do all at once.
Cheers UWE!
Is there a way to see an accurate ping?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
net_stats 1 in console, you can also see the Server Tick there and see if the server starts to struggle :)
This isn't how it's supposed to work (both teams controlling 2 tech points and equal RT should be "even"). I agree that marines have a pretty good advantage if allowed to tech up to flamethrowers (this does take a pretty long time, though), but aliens have a huge advantage if they can lock marines down to 1 CC. It's fairly easy for aliens to guarantee that marines don't have a chance of getting a 2nd CC up in rockdown. They just need to immediately drop a hive (which builds quickly, heals nearby aliens, and takes a long time to kill) on the west tech point and in central then start building up crags, whips, and hydra to defend. It's possible for a marine team to take it back, but they're fighting an uphill battle basically every rockdown game if one alien at the start plops down hives at the right location.
Also, I'm complaining about this more than the aliens later disadvantage because it looks like pretty much everything for low-tier marines is implemented.
Sure it's lightweight and therefore most servers put it on but i thought it was there to allow us to munch/shoot each other to riddle out GE bugs etc?