<!--quoteo(post=1824886:date=Jan 16 2011, 10:08 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 16 2011, 10:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not really, doom3 is excellent for immersion but very bad for actual useability. it doesn't control as fluently as a proper menu.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. I think running up to something, pushing a "use" button, then scrolling to what you want, clicking, and then pressing whatever button to cancel is hardly fluent.
When you get to the armoury, and the "arms" open up, change the side of the armoury you are using into a big screen (or, like I said, something holographic), and have mouse sensitivity whilst within the GUI lowered significantly. You can still snap out of it to the sides, run away from it in any direction etc. As far as keeping it balanced, your weapon will obviously be holstered whilst looking at the usable screen, and still need to be readied again when you leave it. It would be much easier and less tedius.
<!--quoteo(post=1824903:date=Jan 16 2011, 11:25 PM:name=Skiddywinks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skiddywinks @ Jan 16 2011, 11:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree. I think running up to something, pushing a "use" button, then scrolling to what you want, clicking, and then pressing whatever button to cancel is hardly fluent.
When you get to the armoury, and the "arms" open up, change the side of the armoury you are using into a big screen (or, like I said, something holographic), and have mouse sensitivity whilst within the GUI lowered significantly. You can still snap out of it to the sides, run away from it in any direction etc. As far as keeping it balanced, your weapon will obviously be holstered whilst looking at the usable screen, and still need to be readied again when you leave it. It would be much easier and less tedius.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Put it this way, is it easier to scroll everything displayed on your monitor until the thing you want is in the middle, or is it easier to use a normal mouse pointer? One of these things is disorienting and entirely backwards from the way everybody in the world does things, the other is not. Not even apple makes things that scroll the entire display around.
<!--quoteo(post=1824905:date=Jan 16 2011, 11:27 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 16 2011, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Put it this way, is it easier to scroll everything displayed on your monitor until the thing you want is in the middle, or is it easier to use a normal mouse pointer? One of these things is disorienting and entirely backwards from the way everybody in the world does things, the other is not. Not even apple makes things that scroll the entire display around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really know what point you are trying to make. All I am suggesting is the icons for the weapons appear on one screen (no needing to scroll at all) attached to/projected from the armoury. When you are in range and pointing at it, your cursor (or a relevant equivalent) appears on the screen (also lowering your weapon). Move the mouse over the weapon you want, click, back off, done. It is exactly the same thing, minus having to push a button to "use" and another for "exit".
Granted, thinking about it now, and thinking ahead towards upgrades that was mentioned earlier in the thread, you likely would have to use scrolling to get everything in (unless UW could come up with a simple and small UI for upgrading). So in that case I can see your point. But as it stands, we only have three things you need to click; grenades, shotgun or flamethrower. I think it is within UW's power to get those three icons on to one small holographic display shooting out of the armoury, without the need for scrolling.
<!--quoteo(post=1824835:date=Jan 16 2011, 12:38 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 16 2011, 12:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, I lol'd at FocusedWolf's post because that's exactly how it works already :S<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... i think i was instinctively always pressing the E key to check if we had shotties or flamethrowers and at some point started to believe this menu was the result of standing too close to an armory. The only way to close the buy menu is to walk away, so i guess i thought the only way to open the menu was to approach the armory :P
Anyway, the last point of my previous post still stands imo... we need a way to close the buy menu besides walking away. Perhaps an additional press of the E key or press of the Escape key can be used for this.
<!--quoteo(post=1824964:date=Jan 17 2011, 03:25 AM:name=Kuriin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kuriin @ Jan 17 2011, 03:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824964"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't you just hit the log off key, or something? I distinctly remember not being such a hassle that you guys make it out to be. :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The logout button requires a ridiculous amount of mouse movement to reach. Instead of snapping your wrist to hit that button, walking away still is the easiest way to close the menu... Which means an escape key to close it would be very appreciated.
Also if you die at an armory, you cannot close the menu until you respawn, walk up to an armory, press E, and walk away.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Heh. Silly marines! Don't they know that Alt+F4 is a quicker way to close apps? =P
On a serious note, they need to make the close button in the middle of the screen, or at least make the Close button bigger, and cover the upper right corner pixel of the screen...
Here comes the revolution. Just try clicking with your mouse without hitting a button. This is the biggest logoff-button you could imagine. Since 160 or 161 it won't trigger a shot.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1825992:date=Jan 21 2011, 12:45 PM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Jan 21 2011, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1825992"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can just back away from the armory, and the menu automatically closes IIRC<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes and this takes 150 ft (or seems like it) before the menu actually closes. doesnt help when the skulks are in base and i cant friggin see them chomping at my feet.
as much as i like the doom 3 ingame flash gui, its not competitive. hot keys hot key hotkeys. when CS tried to implement that horrid buy menu that wasnt a simple, clean, small text based 1. 2. 3. hotkey setup... i ripped my hair out before realizing there was a checkbox i could check to re enable that old menu. so much faster to hit "b" "4" "3" and be done with it and off your screen in less than a <i>twentieth of a second</i>
it does need work. but honestly, im much more interested in getting the performance issues fixed, the server stability and player count fixed, and of course the mutha truckin Onos. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1826304:date=Jan 22 2011, 11:12 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 22 2011, 11:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes and this takes 150 ft (or seems like it) before the menu actually closes. doesnt help when the skulks are in base and i cant friggin see them chomping at my feet.
as much as i like the doom 3 ingame flash gui, its not competitive. hot keys hot key hotkeys. when CS tried to implement that horrid buy menu that wasnt a simple, clean, small text based 1. 2. 3. hotkey setup... i ripped my hair out before realizing there was a checkbox i could check to re enable that old menu. so much faster to hit "b" "4" "3" and be done with it and off your screen in less than a <i>twentieth of a second</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the new CS menu you could hit the same keys like in the old menu to get a weapon. Just as fast.
Edit: to prove it: I used the new menu and I know that your example is a m4a1 ;)
And here in NS2; you don't have to walk away. Just click.
this current menu has to be re-sized or changed, same goes with alien menu. they should not be taking over our whole screen, removing our movement and sight. Those who played ns1, would see the difference with simple yet effective menus which wasn't so fancy looking but were perfect in design.
This is what current menus must have. And these menus were done in flash, or am i wrong? I wonder how much flash has to be converted into Lua?
<!--quoteo(post=1826344:date=Jan 22 2011, 07:22 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Jan 22 2011, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826344"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is what current menus must have. And these menus were done in flash, or am i wrong? I wonder how much flash has to be converted into Lua?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe they said it will eventually become Lua and that we will get hotkeys(including ESC)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1826349:date=Jan 22 2011, 06:30 PM:name=Camron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Camron @ Jan 22 2011, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe they said it will eventually become Lua and that we will get hotkeys(including ESC)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true. and i think it was cory who said when they convert it, they will consider redesigning. (when they also implement new upgrades for weapons etc)
@countbasie: yea but if you recall it wasnt ALWAYS like that.. they re implemented that back in later on. but still it as it is, it takes up the whole screen, and lags. why mess with something that worked, competitively? because they wanted pictures of the weapons for the n00bs. thank god they knew to keep a checkbox for the competitive.
Pressing USE again, or pressing Mouse2 should close the buy screen, imo. Makes sense. E to open, E to close. Left-click to interact, right-click to exit. One for the keyboard and one for the mouse.
<!--quoteo(post=1824863:date=Jan 16 2011, 08:37 PM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (doeseph @ Jan 16 2011, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824863"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This. I always hit Esc even though I know it doesn't work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Me too (not always but sometimes) and i always have to wait for the return button ^^
'Welcome to ACME Armory services, your one stop shop for all your weapon needs. Please press 1 for help , 2 to go directly to the purchase menu or 3 to repeat this message' [2] 'Welcome to the weapons selection menu , please press 1 to purchase a pistol , press 2 to purchase a [ etc etc ]' [2] Thank you for your purchase. Would you like to take some time and fill in our survey , help us to help yo[ bzzzztt crackle]
... Skulk chuckles.
On a more serious note , havent you all considered that making Marines take time to purchase stuff at the Armory is a balancing factor , to prevent Marines from simply being able to fly past the Armory and pick up more powerfull weapons to fend off a well executed Alien attack ? The Aliens cant b 2 3 insta Onos to counter a Marine assualt on a Hive , is it fair a Marine can b 3 2 insta Exo with duel Miniguns to sort out a Alien assualt ? ... and it wont take long before buy scripts become norm, so a Skulk chewing a freshly spawned Marine may find himself suddenly gnawing the armored shell of a Exo suit instead of a vanilla marine shin bone.
EDIT: I am aware you must still approach the Armory to buy, but its still a consideration that being able to quick buy and exit may be a unbalancing issue.
a buy hotkey only worx only in the buyzone looking at the amory screen, everyone else only gets new ammo and health (while standing between these swosh swosh arms) - so you can instantly turn around and shoot. would also make quite sense with the animations of the armory!
Comments
I disagree. I think running up to something, pushing a "use" button, then scrolling to what you want, clicking, and then pressing whatever button to cancel is hardly fluent.
When you get to the armoury, and the "arms" open up, change the side of the armoury you are using into a big screen (or, like I said, something holographic), and have mouse sensitivity whilst within the GUI lowered significantly. You can still snap out of it to the sides, run away from it in any direction etc. As far as keeping it balanced, your weapon will obviously be holstered whilst looking at the usable screen, and still need to be readied again when you leave it. It would be much easier and less tedius.
When you get to the armoury, and the "arms" open up, change the side of the armoury you are using into a big screen (or, like I said, something holographic), and have mouse sensitivity whilst within the GUI lowered significantly. You can still snap out of it to the sides, run away from it in any direction etc. As far as keeping it balanced, your weapon will obviously be holstered whilst looking at the usable screen, and still need to be readied again when you leave it. It would be much easier and less tedius.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Put it this way, is it easier to scroll everything displayed on your monitor until the thing you want is in the middle, or is it easier to use a normal mouse pointer? One of these things is disorienting and entirely backwards from the way everybody in the world does things, the other is not. Not even apple makes things that scroll the entire display around.
I don't really know what point you are trying to make. All I am suggesting is the icons for the weapons appear on one screen (no needing to scroll at all) attached to/projected from the armoury. When you are in range and pointing at it, your cursor (or a relevant equivalent) appears on the screen (also lowering your weapon). Move the mouse over the weapon you want, click, back off, done. It is exactly the same thing, minus having to push a button to "use" and another for "exit".
Granted, thinking about it now, and thinking ahead towards upgrades that was mentioned earlier in the thread, you likely would have to use scrolling to get everything in (unless UW could come up with a simple and small UI for upgrading). So in that case I can see your point. But as it stands, we only have three things you need to click; grenades, shotgun or flamethrower. I think it is within UW's power to get those three icons on to one small holographic display shooting out of the armoury, without the need for scrolling.
Hmm... i think i was instinctively always pressing the E key to check if we had shotties or flamethrowers and at some point started to believe this menu was the result of standing too close to an armory. The only way to close the buy menu is to walk away, so i guess i thought the only way to open the menu was to approach the armory :P
Anyway, the last point of my previous post still stands imo... we need a way to close the buy menu besides walking away. Perhaps an additional press of the E key or press of the Escape key can be used for this.
The logout button requires a ridiculous amount of mouse movement to reach. Instead of snapping your wrist to hit that button, walking away still is the easiest way to close the menu... Which means an escape key to close it would be very appreciated.
Also if you die at an armory, you cannot close the menu until you respawn, walk up to an armory, press E, and walk away.
On a serious note, they need to make the close button in the middle of the screen, or at least make the Close button bigger, and cover the upper right corner pixel of the screen...
yes and this takes 150 ft (or seems like it) before the menu actually closes. doesnt help when the skulks are in base and i cant friggin see them chomping at my feet.
as much as i like the doom 3 ingame flash gui, its not competitive. hot keys hot key hotkeys.
when CS tried to implement that horrid buy menu that wasnt a simple, clean, small text based 1. 2. 3. hotkey setup... i ripped my hair out before realizing there was a checkbox i could check to re enable that old menu.
so much faster to hit "b" "4" "3" and be done with it and off your screen in less than a <i>twentieth of a second</i>
it does need work.
but honestly, im much more interested in getting the performance issues fixed, the server stability and player count fixed, and of course the mutha truckin Onos.
:)
as much as i like the doom 3 ingame flash gui, its not competitive. hot keys hot key hotkeys.
when CS tried to implement that horrid buy menu that wasnt a simple, clean, small text based 1. 2. 3. hotkey setup... i ripped my hair out before realizing there was a checkbox i could check to re enable that old menu.
so much faster to hit "b" "4" "3" and be done with it and off your screen in less than a <i>twentieth of a second</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the new CS menu you could hit the same keys like in the old menu to get a weapon. Just as fast.
Edit: to prove it: I used the new menu and I know that your example is a m4a1 ;)
And here in NS2; you don't have to walk away. Just click.
This is what current menus must have. And these menus were done in flash, or am i wrong? I wonder how much flash has to be converted into Lua?
I believe they said it will eventually become Lua and that we will get hotkeys(including ESC)
true. and i think it was cory who said when they convert it, they will consider redesigning. (when they also implement new upgrades for weapons etc)
@countbasie:
yea but if you recall it wasnt ALWAYS like that.. they re implemented that back in later on. but still it as it is, it takes up the whole screen, and lags. why mess with something that worked, competitively? because they wanted pictures of the weapons for the n00bs. thank god they knew to keep a checkbox for the competitive.
Makes sense. E to open, E to close. Left-click to interact, right-click to exit. One for the keyboard and one for the mouse.
Me too (not always but sometimes) and i always have to wait for the return button ^^
Had a funny thought ...
Marine runs up to an armory:
'Welcome to ACME Armory services, your one stop shop for all your weapon needs. Please press 1 for help , 2 to go directly to the purchase menu or 3 to repeat this message'
[2]
'Welcome to the weapons selection menu , please press 1 to purchase a pistol , press 2 to purchase a [ etc etc ]'
[2]
Thank you for your purchase. Would you like to take some time and fill in our survey , help us to help yo[ bzzzztt crackle]
... Skulk chuckles.
On a more serious note , havent you all considered that making Marines take time to purchase stuff at the Armory is a balancing factor , to prevent Marines from simply being able to fly past the Armory and pick up more powerfull weapons to fend off a well executed Alien attack ?
The Aliens cant b 2 3 insta Onos to counter a Marine assualt on a Hive , is it fair a Marine can b 3 2 insta Exo with duel Miniguns to sort out a Alien assualt ?
... and it wont take long before buy scripts become norm, so a Skulk chewing a freshly spawned Marine may find himself suddenly gnawing the armored shell of a Exo suit instead of a vanilla marine shin bone.
EDIT: I am aware you must still approach the Armory to buy, but its still a consideration that being able to quick buy and exit may be a unbalancing issue.
what do you all say to this?