NS2 Combat Mode

MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Members
edited February 2011 in NS2 General Discussion
Hello everyone!

I don't want to take anyone's attention away from vanilla NS2 for too long, but in case you guys get bored in between releases... I have been writing a Combat Mode mod for a couple of months now, and it has just reached a point where it is getting pretty full-featured and needs some proper testing.

I have just updated it so that there is a version that is playable with build 165 and am now trying to drum up a little attention for it.

<b>Download links</b>
(Installer, EXE)
<a href="https://github.com/downloads/AlexHayton/NS2-Combat-Mode/CombatMode-1.6.5.1-Setup.exe" target="_blank">https://github.com/downloads/AlexHayton/NS2...6.5.1-Setup.exe</a>
(ZIP, includes full source code)
<a href="https://github.com/downloads/AlexHayton/NS2-Combat-Mode/CombatMode-1.6.5.1-Setup.exe" target="_blank">https://github.com/downloads/AlexHayton/NS2...6.5.1-Setup.exe</a>


All the details and a full feature list are available on the forum post itself, which lives in the NS2 Modding section, and there is a public github and pivotal tracker instance for logging bugs etc:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111818&st=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t=0&start=0</a>

Would any server admins in Europe be up for hosting a combat mode server? I'm based in the UK and the only permanent server so far is on the West Coast, so I haven't played with more than a few people yet (besides little games hosted on my broadband)

If anyone has time to play the mod a little, any feedback would be much appreciated! The ultimate design aim is to create a set of game modes that can act as a kind of 'tutorial' for NS2 as well as a mode similar to NS1 "Combat Mode" and also some kind of "capture and hold" game mode (the specific game mode could be configured with a server flag or a map entity).

While I'm on the topic, a question for UWE, what are your plans for a tutorial at the moment?
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Comments

  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Members
    Some screenshots:

    Armory where the comm chair should go
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5394565986/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5213/5394565986_bb3b69f164.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5394565986/" target="_blank">NS2 2011-01-28 01-08-38-87</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/58863706@N04/" target="_blank">MCMLXXXIV1</a>, on Flickr

    Look ma, no resource towers!
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5394566182/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/5394566182_e933f86e0c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5394566182/" target="_blank">NS2 2011-01-28 01-09-38-64</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/58863706@N04/" target="_blank">MCMLXXXIV1</a>, on Flickr

    Hitting the hive and testing the XP bar
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5393970095/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/5393970095_025f11fe2c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5393970095/" target="_blank">NS2 2011-01-28 01-10-49-02</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/58863706@N04/" target="_blank">MCMLXXXIV1</a>, on Flickr

    Alien HUD
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5394566790/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5178/5394566790_f031822794.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58863706@N04/5394566790/" target="_blank">NS2 2011-01-28 01-12-07-07</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/58863706@N04/" target="_blank">MCMLXXXIV1</a>, on Flickr
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  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Please don't.
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  • SolidNLSolidNL Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33563Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1835143:date=Feb 26 2011, 06:13 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Feb 26 2011, 06:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please don't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    O M G thats one hell of a constructive anwser, now i am assuming you either did not like combat in the orginal ns or you want combat mode mode from UWE.

    Now i know some of the the ns players really disliked the combat mode and thats oke since we all have our own opinion and i really had fun with combat aswell as the regular mode. It was something else to do and it was a bit more fast pased then the orginal mode (not always though).

    Now if you look at it from a bussiness point of view it would not be a bad idea for uwe to evantually also put it in ns2 since the more mp modes you throw in the more people you can atrract. Not everybody likes combat but also not everybody likes the regular mode, with that said at this stage of ns2 it would be more important to get the game as its suppose to be up to speed and think about things like this later. Awesome your trying to mod for ns2 which can't be easy at this stage since ns2 itself is still in development.

    Greetz
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  • wreatruwreatru Join Date: 2011-02-12 Member: 81562Members
    please do!
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  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Awesome work on modding, so far it's been quite little of that so it's good to see something like this come out.

    However, speaking more of the NS- vs CO-modes, I think actually introducing this into the current NS2-game would not be good for the appearance of UWE's game.
    Why? Because I believe this mod of yours (or conversion, depends on how you'd like to see it) is so much more simple and thus will most likely play out better faster than the RTS/FPS game UWE is working on which requires a lot of parts before it can be considered whole.

    So... I don't know, it might sound a bit mean, but I wouldn't want this kind of mod to come out... just yet.
    I think it would be much better for everyone if the beta focused only on what's important, and that's their product.

    But it's your choice, and I'm sure many people would be happy for it, and many would be unhappy for it, so it's up to you really.
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  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    Give the guy some slack, he's put some effort into modding NS2; wheres so many of us haven't. Of course we are all entitled to our personal opinions and I would much prefer a 'NS v1.04/3.1 Classic' mod.

    For the experience system, is it direct XP for kills or does it take on the tradition of spreading XP out to nearby friendlies?
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  • MCMLXXXIVMCMLXXXIV Join Date: 2010-04-14 Member: 71400Members
    edited February 2011
    In theory, xp for nearby friendlies. In practice it's broken so you don't get any :)

    To be honest getting vanilla NS2 working and good is my main focus too. Combat mode is at best a distraction for me and a good way to learn how the Spark engine and toolchain works a bit better in case I want to write something else.

    I'm deliberately staggering the releases and there is usually a delay of at least a couple of days after each NS2 build where combat stops working (I have put a detection mechanism in to stop you using it until I release the updated version for that build). I hope that this goes some way to addressing the concerns of those who say that this will "destroy ns2", but you can't please everyone and at the end of the day I'm making this for my own enjoyment (and yours of course!).

    My other hope was that because I've tried not to change too much, a mod like this can catch gameplay and balance issues that might be missed due to the complexity of regular NS2 games (for example after initial testing the shotgun appears to be slightly overpowered, at least on the "junction" map, and the skulks a little too powerful vs regular marines but obviously crushed by shotguns), and to provide a sort of "NS2-Lite training ground" for people to mess around and practice their skills outside of regular play.
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  • ASnogarDASnogarD Join Date: 2003-10-24 Member: 21894Members
    Part of the reason I dislike CO maps / mode is due to the apparent lack of intrest in the classic NS is created, it was like a Dues Ex original game came out but because it was too complex it lost the deal due to a CoD:MW2 clone...because the clone was easier to grasp.

    NS classic is more complex than a standard FPS and requires more commitment , whereas in the generic mold type CO games...its all too easy to grasp.

    If I wanted a easy to play , to pick up game I would of opted for a CoD game, but I have enough of those and want a complex game...like NS.

    Thats just my opinion on why CO isnt so popular with the 'old krew' .
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  • s0ks0k Join Date: 2010-02-07 Member: 70473Members
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1835172:date=Feb 26 2011, 06:00 PM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Feb 26 2011, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835172"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Part of the reason I dislike CO maps / mode is due to the apparent lack of intrest in the classic NS is created, it was like a Dues Ex original game came out but because it was too complex it lost the deal due to a CoD:MW2 clone...because the clone was easier to grasp.

    NS classic is more complex than a standard FPS and requires more commitment , whereas in the generic mold type CO games...its all too easy to grasp.

    If I wanted a easy to play , to pick up game I would of opted for a CoD game, but I have enough of those and want a complex game...like NS.

    Thats just my opinion on why CO isnt so popular with the 'old krew' .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed, and this was the case with many of the original people I played with. Yes, we could ignore combat, but we couldn't ignore the dwindling server populations as people migrated to it. I played Natural Selection to play an RTS/FPS, and it was just unfortunate when a majority of players moved over to combat, which, for me, took away the essence of what made Natural Selection unique.

    Regardless, it's nice to see some mod developers this early in development. I just disagree with the game mode, at least in relation to how it affected the original game.

    Just to play devil's advocate, one could argue that if the learning curve was easier in classic, however they might accomplish this, less people would have migrated to combat, but that's another discussion entirely.
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  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    combat can wait, game suffers from stability and balance issues, aside from bugs of course. while much of the game is still missing.
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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    Sorry to tell you this, luns, but combat hasn't waited, it's basically done. Or at least the foundation is there.

    It's sad that this has become an NS- vs CO- debate. It's exactly what I expected, but still sad. I applaud MCMLXXXIV for being so classy and non-chalant about those responses.

    A few thoughts:
    1. This is the very first game-mode mod to NS2, appreciate that fact. And he's pulled it off on an incomplete game and engine. I think this is amazing work.
    2. It's a mod. It's not going to steal the spotlight.
    3. You don't have to play this. Similarly, you don't have to comment.
    4. All the haters may simply criticise Combat and long for NS Classic, but no one seems to want to actually make an actual effort towards an NS Classic mod. This should be rectified.
    5. He's got his source code available publicly, which could possibly be used as a foundation for an NS Classic mod.
    6. Well done! I wonder if you would possibly be interested in using this mod as a framework to try out weapon and movement tweaks and how they might work in combat on a 'level' playing field. I have a few ideas about the shotgun and flamethrower, for instance, that I'd like to try.
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Combat never stole anyone from Classic. It kept people who got tired of Classic from quitting the game entirely, and then only people who were actually interested in the strategy component played Classic. I don't see the problem.
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  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1835192:date=Feb 27 2011, 07:03 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 27 2011, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Similarly, you don't have to comment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you should take your own advice. You misunderstand what I write, and usually in other thread I reply.

    even if combat was ready tomorrow, and everything was done, its not something ns2 needs right now at all.
    If you read what I wrote more carefully you notice what I wrote, read it again. combat can wait, how do you understand this in your head?
    ns2 is such mess right now, the last thing it needs is co maps.

    so i will again for you, combat can wait.
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1835195:date=Feb 27 2011, 01:32 AM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Feb 27 2011, 01:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you should take your own advice. You misunderstand what I write, and usually in other thread I reply.

    even if combat was ready tomorrow, and everything was done, its not something ns2 needs right now at all.
    If you read what I wrote more carefully you notice what I wrote, read it again. combat can wait, how do you understand this in your head?
    ns2 is such mess right now, the last thing it needs is co maps.

    so i will again for you, combat can wait.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You do understand that this is a fan-created mod, right? It's not detracting anything from the development of the game.
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  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Members
    i know, but if you look at the ns2 shape right now combat can seriously wait. We don't even have stable engine to begin with!

    I will welcome combat better once ns2 will be in better shape.
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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2011
    luns, I have an idea. How about you download and install the mod, and try it! Then you can make any real judgments about the readiness or state of this mod.

    The current state of the mod reflects the current state of the game. That's part of its beauty, I think. As the main game becomes more complete and optimised and feature-filled, so too will the Combat mod. Except that due to the relative simplicity of Combat's design, it can be more easily balanced and is less prone to some of the bugs plaguing the main game. In a sense, it's slightly ahead. Take that as you will.

    MCMLXXXIV: Now, I'm nowhere near the US OR the UK, I'm in Australia. Have you added support for any of the basic bots that currently ship with the game (if you use cheats, or was it dev mode?), and possibly made your own improvements? I'd like to try this out but aren't keen on connecting to a server halfway across the world...
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  • CodeineCodeine Join Date: 2010-11-22 Member: 75155Members
    edited February 2011
    hell yes, i hope you can complete this....

    Im looking forward to playing some Combat.

    Needs some air acceleration for alien leaps.
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  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    In the future I would be willing to assist with a 'Classic' mod, need to get my modding skills up to scratch again. So has anyone tested out the gameplay on this mod? I would love to play but I haven't had a windows machine for some time now. Maybe some video footage? (NS2HD mod special?)
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  • Spritz2k11Spritz2k11 Join Date: 2011-01-23 Member: 78679Members
    What's with all the haters? Combat-mode increased the life span of NS1. It was damn popular, lots of people enjoyed playing it.

    If you are too close minded and 'oldskool' to respect the efforts of this guy, please, don't reply.
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  • FehaFeha Join Date: 2006-11-16 Member: 58633Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1835192:date=Feb 27 2011, 07:03 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 27 2011, 07:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. This is the very first game-mode mod to NS2, appreciate that fact. And he's pulled it off on an incomplete game and engine. I think this is amazing work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thats actually not true, I think the first mod was one where you had a topdown view of a corridor, and you played as a marine shooting "upwards" towards skulk going downwards.
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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1835192:date=Feb 27 2011, 08:03 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Feb 27 2011, 08:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's sad that this has become an NS- vs CO- debate. It's exactly what I expected, but still sad. I applaud MCMLXXXIV for being so classy and non-chalant about those responses.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Couldn't agree more.
    Here's someone contributing to the game (its modding community), giving some of those who aren't satisfied with the current state of NS2 or can't run it properly another option to have some fun with NS2.
    You don't have to like Combat, but please realize that this just adds more content to something you've payed money for and thus hopefully creates a more succesful game and a bigger community.
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  • FocusedWolfFocusedWolf Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1835220:date=Feb 27 2011, 07:28 AM:name=Spritz2k11)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Spritz2k11 @ Feb 27 2011, 07:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1835220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's with all the haters? <u>Combat-mode increased the life span of NS1</u>. It was damn popular, lots of people enjoyed playing it.

    If you are too close minded and 'oldskool' to respect the efforts of this guy, please, don't reply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There's a good chance there would never have been a NS2 if it weren't for CO.

    Now we need some siege maps! :P
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  • Electr0Electr0 Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Members
    It will be good to see combat official for NS2, imagine how popular it could be if done right, extra levels and build menus were always fun in the first one, just think what it could be capable of if given the chance, new game modes all around, i can't wait.
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  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited November 2011
    I think the Pro-Combat people are missing the point of people posting against combat mode. A NS Classic mod would be nice but even for me, a person who isn't happy with the direction NS2 is taking, wouldn't welcome a mod of this game yet. Let the original NS2 stand on its own for awhile. Let fans become familiar with what the developers are presenting before you dumb it down to combat mode. If people who played NS wanted the fast paste, generic, level, run and gun they should play BF, MW, or CoD.

    In my opinion Combat Mode killed NS classic and everything the game was. After that mod it was very hard to find a server that played NS maps and stuck to improving strategy and tactics instead of twitch skill and brain numbing kill counts. Don't get me started on Siege maps :P

    It's like this, Say you had a pretty girl who was respectable and nicely dressed. You introduce her to a dating pool of millions of guys, but right after you introduce her twin who is dressed with a very low cut shirt, push up bra, and that look in her eye of a guaranteed easy time of getting her home in bed. But you want to introduce this twin before you give the respectable one a chance.

    This is truly how i see it. I commend any modder who puts out a decent and well done work, but i agree that i don't think it is time to introduce an alternate mode before the original is even complete. Why not put such mods on hold and help the dev team implement stuff that benefits the original?

    In the end great job on the mod! I hate CO and will probably never play it but i appreciate this fan bases excitement. I just worry that if a Combat Mod comes out and is polished before the original it will steal NS2 1.0's thunder and erode the fledgling fan base. Why play something complex like NS2 1.0 when you can jump in NS2 CO and begin right away.
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  • blinblin Join Date: 2011-07-20 Member: 111290Members
    The Combat mode was why I stopped playing vanilla NS, caise all nearby playble servers became combat mode.

    So boring. If I wanna play a shooter I ll play BF3.
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  • DestroidDestroid Join Date: 2011-10-25 Member: 129240Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1885021:date=Nov 16 2011, 12:16 AM:name=blin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blin @ Nov 16 2011, 12:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Combat mode was why I stopped playing vanilla NS, caise all nearby playble servers became combat mode.

    So boring. If I wanna play a shooter I ll play BF3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This sort of thing can be a real problem if you live in a more remote part of the world like Australia, where a mod or game can easily die.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    I don't see the problem with things like this, as long as it stays as a mod.
    I agree that if this were taken in to the official part of the game, it would hurt the game.
    But as long as it's obvious that it's a mod, it doesn't hurt the vanilla game.
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  • saltybp53saltybp53 Join Date: 2010-07-22 Member: 72675Members
    I'm sure classic mode can coexist well with combat if we just wait and see. Maybe devs have some good ideas on making combat more team oriented.
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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I always thought the NS mode died out more because it was very unforgiving to newbs. NS1, NS mode had a very high learning curve such that if you weren't a moderately skilled player, you were a large drag on your team that would lead you to lose. Is it any wonder that new players flocked to the CO servers instead?
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  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    ...Where you were still a drag on the team, but since everything was so fast-paced and chaotic there was no time to notice if it was your own fault or just bad luck when you die.

    Kind of like modern multiplayer FPSes, really.
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