I vote yes for the Onos Devour, haven't played ns1 a lot, but if there's a fun thing i remember from it, it's getting eaten and eating :D Although maybe make it last not too long so people don't get bored !
Devour is what ruined the onos in NS1. In 1.04 it could take a very serious beating(especially given its tiny 32x32x64 hitbox), which meant it could actually run in and do stuff. In later versions the health and armor had to be balanced around its one-hit kill abillity. Forcing it to spend most of its time kiting and camping around corners and just being generally boring to play with and boring to play against.
I loved the onos devour. Yea it sucked getting eaten but that was the price you paid for either being a rambo or having crappy teammates.
If devour was back in i would suggest that a regular marine be eaten easily, but for an exo, the onos would have to beat him down a little bit first. Maybe an upgrade for exos would be anti-devour, which was a mechanism that released spikes so if the onos tried to eat you he would die. Basically this means an onos would have to beat you up and damage the mechanism before he devoured you.
While in the stomach I think it would be cool to have your fists made available to which you could punch an onos organs to make him either run slower/off-balance, blur his vision, or disable one of his attacks. I think that would add some fun into being devoured and punching an onos heart. :P
jkflipflop: One-hit-kill attacks are generally indicators of bad game design. A 1900 hitpoint tank that does hit-and-run attacks is also bad game design.
Also, you would have been calling for help, and still died. And then a minute into your respawn, it happens again. And then ten minutes later, it happens again. Fun.
Well i got a feeling, that exos wont be able to carry welders(which would suck a bit :/) - and thus rely on light marines/macs running around them with welders... so onis run in, tank a little exo dmg eat a light marine and hide again/or try to kill the exos. i dont think devour will really be viable in such a group of marines and exos(pretty dangerous) - more something against lone runners.
<!--quoteo(post=1847049:date=May 18 2011, 06:49 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 18 2011, 06:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->jkflipflop: One-hit-kill attacks are generally indicators of bad game design. A 1900 hitpoint tank that does hit-and-run attacks is also bad game design.
Also, you would have been calling for help, and still died. And then a minute into your respawn, it happens again. And then ten minutes later, it happens again. Fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idicators of bad game design? Says who? You? HAHAHAH
Look, we played NS1 where the Onos does all this and alot of people seemed to have liked it. There are a vocal minority of whiners and then there's everyone else. It would be a travesty to lose something so fun and unique because a few whiners can't handle a 20 second timer. And if you're getting eaten over and over and over again, it's generally an indicator that you're a bad player and not staying with your teammates.
Maybe devour could be used as a last ditch effort rather than a hit-and-run sneak attack. Devouring could slow down his speed by a percentage and disable charging as he's digesting, but would allow him to regenerate faster. He would be easier to target, but will give the Onos more time to destroy important structures or players that are too slow to move out of his way. Pros: He gets to keep devour, allows him to regenerate in the middle of a fight, great way of healing after an encounter by chomping on the last survivor. Cons: Makes hiding and rushing off against groups impossible, unable to chase down other marines as effectively.
I just hope that moving to source makes it so that the Onos cannot hide half of his body outside of the map while waiting in a corner. It was really hard to avoid getting devoured when it looked like it was morphing out of a wall.
<!--quoteo(post=1847136:date=May 18 2011, 09:01 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 18 2011, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look, we played NS1 where the Onos does all this and alot of people seemed to have liked it. There are a vocal minority of whiners<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Vocal minority? The votes are about equally split. And you realize you won't get any respect if you don't show any, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1847228:date=May 18 2011, 06:46 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 18 2011, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vocal minority? The votes are about equally split. And you realize you won't get any respect if you don't show any, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devour as it was in NS1 doesnt appeal to me. There is nothing you can do after being eaten you just wait to die or for the Onos to die when you could be getting ready to respawn and play again.
<!--quoteo(post=1847136:date=May 18 2011, 03:01 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 18 2011, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are a vocal minority of whiners and then there's everyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's a vocal minority of devour-fetishists and then there's everyone else.
<!--quoteo(post=1847136:date=May 18 2011, 03:01 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 18 2011, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be a travesty to lose something so fun and unique because a few whiners can't handle a 20 second timer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not _being_ devoured that is boring; devour makes the _onos_ boring to play.
<!--quoteo(post=1847281:date=May 19 2011, 04:31 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ May 19 2011, 04:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not _being_ devoured that is boring; devour makes the _onos_ boring to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the first time this entire thread that's been mentioned.
<!--QuoteBegin-jkflipflop+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are a vocal minority of whiners and then there's everyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> made me lol. Lying, or deluded?
Besides, you do realise that everyone that speaks on this forum is technically the vocal minority. So even if there's a majority on these forums that like devour, they would still be the vocal minority, so it holds that the silent majority (the potential playerbase) outside of these forums do not support devour. Lying, or deluded?
<!--quoteo(post=1847298:date=May 19 2011, 07:40 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 19 2011, 07:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->made me lol. Lying, or deluded?
Besides, you do realise that everyone that speaks on this forum is technically the vocal minority. So even if there's a majority on these forums that like devour, they would still be the vocal minority, so it holds that the silent majority (the potential playerbase) outside of these forums do not support devour. Lying, or deluded?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
U mad bro? You sound pretty butthurt about something.
I don't really recall ONOS being hit and run. Yes if there was a huge army he is not going to CHARGE!!! the front lines. because that is wasting so much rez. But he had amazing CC with stomp. He could dominated expansions and was a total game changer in the right hands. I don't know about the ONOS in CO. But in NS he was a force to be reckoned with. Sounds like a lot of you played too much CO if you where really getting devoured and it was as much of the game as you say it was.
<!--quoteo(post=1847286:date=May 19 2011, 04:50 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 19 2011, 04:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the first time this entire thread that's been mentioned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or maybe you didn't get the connection. You pay for having devour; there is no free lunch. It's not devour or no devour; it's devour or some other skill, health, armor, speed or easier availabilty(less stringent tech tree requirements or plasma cost).
<!--quoteo(post=1847462:date=May 19 2011, 04:29 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ May 19 2011, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or maybe you didn't get the connection. You pay for having devour; there is no free lunch. It's not devour or no devour; it's devour or some other skill, health, armor, speed or easier availabilty(less stringent tech tree requirements or plasma cost).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no connection.
There's a group of people saying "Devour sucks because you have to stare at alien goatse for 20 WHOLE SECONDS!!" Then there's a group of people saying "Devour was a good ability that created fun and memorable moments"
Then there's you with your line of whatever it is you're trying to say.
<!--quoteo(post=1847476:date=May 19 2011, 08:40 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ May 19 2011, 08:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847476"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As long as we dont see the old stun stomp - im fine with devour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as long as there is proper balance i wouldn't mind seeing all the old abilities make a return in NS2. i found them fun back then, im sure with some gameplay freshness tweaking they would still work in ns2... that seems to be the road they are taking with the fade and blink anyways.
<!--quoteo(post=1847463:date=May 19 2011, 06:43 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 19 2011, 06:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847463"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is no connection.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a patently obvious connection. In 1.04 the onos was a doomsday weapon. This was reasonably balanced because you could only ever get an onos if you got all three hives.
<!--quoteo(post=1847330:date=May 19 2011, 05:37 PM:name=[Spec]Ice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([Spec]Ice @ May 19 2011, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't really recall ONOS being hit and run.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
three or four marines with LMGs where able to take out an onos easily because it was too damn slow to get into melee and a too freaggin huge target to miss. Add in the fact you couldnt squeeze through some areas // had to crouch to enter them, and you understand why it was only used to add humiliation to loss for the enemy.
It was simply an overgrown gorge and in no way had an effective cost-use factor in a normal game. You could only use it to take out single marines or two man groups at max (devour one, gore the other) - if there where more than two, you couldn't deal enough damage to make it count.
Imo the onos had to be balanced around devour so it couldnt be used as eat machine, taking out the whole marine team on a whim, which was effectively destroying the unit.
Devour needs to stay where it is. In the bit bucket.
I don't think the fans of devour actually disagree that the NS1 devour was not perfect. and I love the paper-mache quote because I remember that occurring. It became non-cost effective to buy an Onos and the Oni ceased to be a threat. i can't remember the versions ... but I remember it.
That being said I think the discussion was more for the CONCEPT of devour. Just the concept of a giant alien swallowing a marine. It's been done in movies...and usually to the result of surprise and humor.
Think outside of the NS1 implementation. and also think if this ever occurs it will probably be post 1.0
What would you want it to be. I would want it to be...rare...something only executed when it is really worth it. More animated ... I want to actually see someone get swallowed. Less Entrapping ... The person inside the stomach should be on a short death timer....saving is rare Hinder only the Onos that swallowed someone ... don't chop the stats for all Oni, just the one that currently has his belly full.
Someone mentioned the Onos pooping marine bricks ...thats a funny idea later
It be fine if it didn't just stun the player inside the Onos. How about making it so the marine can still use his gun inside the Onos, that way it wouldn't just be an overpowered one hit kill that also disables you for a few seconds. The player would be able to shoot himself out of the Onos depending on what weapon he has, how low on HP the Onos is and if its sitting on Dynamic infestation. It would still have the effect of stunning the player and maybe even killing them but the Onos would have to sacrifice some of its HP while the marine was still alive inside it, after digestion it could get a large healing boost as a reward.
Comments
Although maybe make it last not too long so people don't get bored !
That is the H.E.X.O and you know it!
If devour was back in i would suggest that a regular marine be eaten easily, but for an exo, the onos would have to beat him down a little bit first. Maybe an upgrade for exos would be anti-devour, which was a mechanism that released spikes so if the onos tried to eat you he would die. Basically this means an onos would have to beat you up and damage the mechanism before he devoured you.
While in the stomach I think it would be cool to have your fists made available to which you could punch an onos organs to make him either run slower/off-balance, blur his vision, or disable one of his attacks. I think that would add some fun into being devoured and punching an onos heart. :P
One-hit-kill attacks are generally indicators of bad game design.
A 1900 hitpoint tank that does hit-and-run attacks is also bad game design.
Also, you would have been calling for help, and still died.
And then a minute into your respawn, it happens again.
And then ten minutes later, it happens again.
Fun.
I won't be dissapointed if it doesn't though, it just might not work out for Ns2.
One-hit-kill attacks are generally indicators of bad game design.
A 1900 hitpoint tank that does hit-and-run attacks is also bad game design.
Also, you would have been calling for help, and still died.
And then a minute into your respawn, it happens again.
And then ten minutes later, it happens again.
Fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idicators of bad game design? Says who? You? HAHAHAH
Look, we played NS1 where the Onos does all this and alot of people seemed to have liked it. There are a vocal minority of whiners and then there's everyone else. It would be a travesty to lose something so fun and unique because a few whiners can't handle a 20 second timer. And if you're getting eaten over and over and over again, it's generally an indicator that you're a bad player and not staying with your teammates.
Pros: He gets to keep devour, allows him to regenerate in the middle of a fight, great way of healing after an encounter by chomping on the last survivor.
Cons: Makes hiding and rushing off against groups impossible, unable to chase down other marines as effectively.
I just hope that moving to source makes it so that the Onos cannot hide half of his body outside of the map while waiting in a corner. It was really hard to avoid getting devoured when it looked like it was morphing out of a wall.
Vocal minority? The votes are about equally split. And you realize you won't get any respect if you don't show any, right?
Very vocal, indeed.
There's a vocal minority of devour-fetishists and then there's everyone else.
<!--quoteo(post=1847136:date=May 18 2011, 03:01 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 18 2011, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would be a travesty to lose something so fun and unique because a few whiners can't handle a 20 second timer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not _being_ devoured that is boring; devour makes the _onos_ boring to play.
That's the first time this entire thread that's been mentioned.
Don't make it return.
made me lol. Lying, or deluded?
Besides, you do realise that everyone that speaks on this forum is technically the vocal minority. So even if there's a majority on these forums that like devour, they would still be the vocal minority, so it holds that the silent majority (the potential playerbase) outside of these forums do not support devour. Lying, or deluded?
Besides, you do realise that everyone that speaks on this forum is technically the vocal minority. So even if there's a majority on these forums that like devour, they would still be the vocal minority, so it holds that the silent majority (the potential playerbase) outside of these forums do not support devour. Lying, or deluded?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
U mad bro? You sound pretty butthurt about something.
Or maybe you didn't get the connection. You pay for having devour; there is no free lunch. It's not devour or no devour; it's devour or some other skill, health, armor, speed or easier availabilty(less stringent tech tree requirements or plasma cost).
There is no connection.
There's a group of people saying "Devour sucks because you have to stare at alien goatse for 20 WHOLE SECONDS!!"
Then there's a group of people saying "Devour was a good ability that created fun and memorable moments"
Then there's you with your line of whatever it is you're trying to say.
as long as there is proper balance i wouldn't mind seeing all the old abilities make a return in NS2. i found them fun back then, im sure with some gameplay freshness tweaking they would still work in ns2... that seems to be the road they are taking with the fade and blink anyways.
There is a patently obvious connection. In 1.04 the onos was a doomsday weapon. This was reasonably balanced because you could only ever get an onos if you got all three hives.
In 2.0 and later versions the onos had devour and was available at 1 hive; to pay for this the onos had to be made of papier-mâché and cost 100 res.
I don't really recall ONOS being hit and run.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
three or four marines with LMGs where able to take out an onos easily because it was too damn slow to get into melee and a too freaggin huge target to miss.
Add in the fact you couldnt squeeze through some areas // had to crouch to enter them, and you understand why it was only used to add humiliation to loss for the enemy.
It was simply an overgrown gorge and in no way had an effective cost-use factor in a normal game. You could only use it to take out single marines or two man groups at max (devour one, gore the other) - if there where more than two, you couldn't deal enough damage to make it count.
Imo the onos had to be balanced around devour so it couldnt be used as eat machine, taking out the whole marine team on a whim, which was effectively destroying the unit.
Devour needs to stay where it is. In the bit bucket.
I don't think the fans of devour actually disagree that the NS1 devour was not perfect.
and I love the paper-mache quote because I remember that occurring.
It became non-cost effective to buy an Onos and the Oni ceased to be a threat.
i can't remember the versions ... but I remember it.
That being said I think the discussion was more for the CONCEPT of devour.
Just the concept of a giant alien swallowing a marine.
It's been done in movies...and usually to the result of surprise and humor.
Think outside of the NS1 implementation.
and also think if this ever occurs it will probably be post 1.0
What would you want it to be.
I would want it to be...rare...something only executed when it is really worth it.
More animated ... I want to actually see someone get swallowed.
Less Entrapping ... The person inside the stomach should be on a short death timer....saving is rare
Hinder only the Onos that swallowed someone ... don't chop the stats for all Oni, just the one that currently has his belly full.
Someone mentioned the Onos pooping marine bricks ...thats a funny idea
later