Current stomp isn't fine where it is and does need tweaking UWE... It goes through walls, across air, down across different elevations, has no movement penalty when charging up, and the lag compensation means you get stunned before you can reasonably react to seeing the onos do his stomp animation.
Also, the duration is so long that once you get caught in it you might as well alt tab and go do something else for 15-20 seconds. Its really not fun, especially considering the ways in which you can get stomped through clear obstacles (elevation/walls) with no chance to defend movement wise. A revamped devour that gives marines the option to suicide is better than this.
My suggestion - Let marines shoot while stomped and lying on the ground or devour with the ability to choose whether to stick around in the Onos or suicide. Suicide meaning Onos can eat another marine quicker so there is tradeoff.
<!--quoteo(post=1925193:date=Apr 13 2012, 05:07 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Apr 13 2012, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925193"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A marine who gets stomped or gored should have a chance to get out of the situation or at least shoot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have a chance, you can jump when you see the Onos about to Stomp, it's really not that hard. I do it all the time and Marines do it to me when I play Onos.
Does nobody like my idea of a Roar that temporarily reduces Armour? I think it would be badass to see the Onos do a big loud roar.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"The soundwave of the roar temporarily disrupts the bonds between the nano-armour particles"
At 2 Hives reduce the Armour Level by 1, at 3 Hives reduce the Armor Level by 2 (so from Armour 3 down to 1, or Armor 2 down to 0)
Duration of 5-10 seconds before the Armour goes back up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Doesn't take away control of players but like the tweet said, helps other aliens be more effective. Also I imagine Exosuits are going to add Armour to players wearing them, so this would be good versus those aswell.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Next patch: ARC health reduced and big alien structure changes (to reduce alien map dominance).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds interesting. I do hope those changes refer to Cysting, which is ridiculously fast and thus spammy. Although, I would like to see more chambers near the frontlines, unlike the Whip spam at every Hive + any other chambers.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
I thought an arc would have drastically lowered health when deployed due to all the open wires and circuitry. Which would be a useful in getting rid of undefended arcs attacking a hive. While still allowing the arc to reach their destination when not deployed.
<!--quoteo(post=1925244:date=Apr 13 2012, 10:59 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 13 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925244"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought an arc would have drastically lowered health when deployed due to all the open wires and circuitry. Which would be a useful in getting rid of undefended arcs attacking a hive. While still allowing the arc to reach their destination when not deployed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think there are a lot of things like this that should happen in the game, but it seems like they rather just blanket-change things than tweak how they work? I would have expected this back in NS1 but since they obviously have the source code for the entire game and can do whatever they want.. seems odd to me.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Next patch: ARC health reduced and big alien structure changes (to reduce alien map dominance).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Great, because arcs are way to hard to kill (with no expensive onos). Yesterday... <img src="http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4206/27845332.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I try to bilebomb and 2 skulks helped me but nothing, hive was killed so fast, we just killed 2 arcs. Yes i shoot the bilebomb in the middle to catch all arcs but it was hopeless.
Is the Onos going to get the Bone Shield ability at some point? This had been mentioned by devs in the past. It was a damage-soak stance that the onos could take while crouched if I recall correctly.
Is this no longer planned?
There was also a mention of gorge damn-soak armadillo type thing.
Perhaps these are previously abandoned abilities. Just wondering...
i think we all agree that an onos roaring is cool.
my suggestion is: if the onos roars, aliens who hear it get there adrenalin pumping and get better energy regeneration. because gorge, lerk and fade are always running out of energy.
i think it fits nicer than a simple armor or damage buff/debuff.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=NS2HD Twitter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD Twitter)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Live competitive match, Mr v Darkside, starting in 4.75 hours (6pm US-PST) on <a href="http://t.co/KilvBpqf" target="_blank">http://t.co/KilvBpqf</a>. Tomorrow, games begin at 11am US-PST!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see all the programmers around Hugh already had an influence on him. He's starting to measure hours with decimals now.
good write up, but it's sad in a sense that he even felt compelled to do so. if only everyone put themselves in the shoes of a dev and asked "would i spend several years making a game and want to release it poorly?" then we wouldn't see one stupid thread about poor game performance. if you notice a dip or increase in performance after an update, great, post it in the thread that's put up with each update and be done with it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fiddling with spreadsheet values, trying to make marine armor upgrades more useful vs. fades and skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades, yes please! Don't see the reasoning for skulks though. 4 bites with the current armor upgrades is enough as is.
<!--quoteo(post=1925518:date=Apr 14 2012, 08:31 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Apr 14 2012, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925518"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hell 4 bites feels like it's too much, makes skulks almost worthless. if only leap could do damage again...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really understand your logic here, it's an armor upgrade that the marine comm spent time and TRes on getting, the whole point is to make marines harder to kill.. if you negate that then what is the point in even having it in the game? by the time marines have armor 3 you should have fades and onoses. are you really trying to say a tier 1 starter lifeform should be able to easily kill a marine with end-game armour upgrades in FEWER than 4 bites?
<!--quoteo(post=1925527:date=Apr 15 2012, 12:18 AM:name=paradoxum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paradoxum @ Apr 15 2012, 12:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really understand your logic here, it's an armor upgrade that the marine comm spent time and TRes on getting, the whole point is to make marines harder to kill.. if you negate that then what is the point in even having it in the game? by the time marines have armor 3 you should have fades and onoses. are you really trying to say a tier 1 starter lifeform should be able to easily kill a marine with end-game armour upgrades in FEWER than 4 bites?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so where's the t-res sink for aliens that make skulks non-worthless in the late game?
<!--quoteo(post=1925533:date=Apr 14 2012, 09:30 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Apr 14 2012, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925533"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so where's the t-res sink for aliens that make skulks non-worthless in the late game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they have their own upgrades that cost what, 2 res each? if they're not good enough then maybe some scaling needs to happen, like 2 hives gives more carapace armour, 3 hives even more, then the later the game the better the upgrades become, thus less worthless skulks
<!--quoteo(post=1925548:date=Apr 14 2012, 11:12 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Apr 14 2012, 11:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925548"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->too bad that kind of thing is ruled out in the design doc<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't even know where to begin, surely i'm not the only one that sees how shortsighted it would be to not make any changes because of something like this?
I haven't read this design doc nor even know if it's available to read anywhere, but writing something down and then seeing how things turn out when played in reality is a different thing altogether, to not try and change your design to fix or accommodate unforseen problems just seems silly to me.
The reason we see everyone going mass-Fade and mass-Onos is because Fade and Onos are better than skulks. The current resource system is designed to remove the commander's choice of who to arm/evolve with what in order to improve scaling balance, so by its very nature, it results in entire teams buying Fade/GL/JPs the second they become available.
Balancing the lifeforms so that Onos wasn't just straight up better than Skulk or Lerk at everything would reduce mass Oni; the same goes for Fades. Alternatively, they can nerf Skulks even further, forcing large amounts of people to spend resources on Gorge and Lerk just to survive until Onos is possible. We already see this with Marines to some extent in that GLs are ###### at dealing with ambushes once everything turns into close-quarters chaos; you need SG Marines to defend the GLs if you don't want them to suicide every time a Skulk drops from the ceiling.
<!--quoteo(post=1925551:date=Apr 15 2012, 02:57 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Apr 15 2012, 02:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason we see everyone going mass-Fade and mass-Onos is because Fade and Onos are better than skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whaaaa? surely i can't be the only one who performs better as a skulk than onos. aside from mine clearing and breaking through sentry farms, skulk all the way!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How did BABBLERS sneak into our playtest?!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
please don't tease us. babblers next patch please?
Comments
Also, the duration is so long that once you get caught in it you might as well alt tab and go do something else for 15-20 seconds. Its really not fun, especially considering the ways in which you can get stomped through clear obstacles (elevation/walls) with no chance to defend movement wise. A revamped devour that gives marines the option to suicide is better than this.
My suggestion - Let marines shoot while stomped and lying on the ground or devour with the ability to choose whether to stick around in the Onos or suicide. Suicide meaning Onos can eat another marine quicker so there is tradeoff.
You have a chance, you can jump when you see the Onos about to Stomp, it's really not that hard. I do it all the time and Marines do it to me when I play Onos.
Does nobody like my idea of a Roar that temporarily reduces Armour? I think it would be badass to see the Onos do a big loud roar.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"The soundwave of the roar temporarily disrupts the bonds between the nano-armour particles"
At 2 Hives reduce the Armour Level by 1, at 3 Hives reduce the Armor Level by 2 (so from Armour 3 down to 1, or Armor 2 down to 0)
Duration of 5-10 seconds before the Armour goes back up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't take away control of players but like the tweet said, helps other aliens be more effective. Also I imagine Exosuits are going to add Armour to players wearing them, so this would be good versus those aswell.
Sounds interesting. I do hope those changes refer to Cysting, which is ridiculously fast and thus spammy. Although, I would like to see more chambers near the frontlines, unlike the Whip spam at every Hive + any other chambers.
I think there are a lot of things like this that should happen in the game, but it seems like they rather just blanket-change things than tweak how they work? I would have expected this back in NS1 but since they obviously have the source code for the entire game and can do whatever they want.. seems odd to me.
Great, because arcs are way to hard to kill (with no expensive onos).
Yesterday...
<img src="http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4206/27845332.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I try to bilebomb and 2 skulks helped me but nothing, hive was killed so fast, we just killed 2 arcs.
Yes i shoot the bilebomb in the middle to catch all arcs but it was hopeless.
Is this no longer planned?
There was also a mention of gorge damn-soak armadillo type thing.
Perhaps these are previously abandoned abilities. Just wondering...
my suggestion is: if the onos roars, aliens who hear it get there adrenalin pumping and get better energy regeneration.
because gorge, lerk and fade are always running out of energy.
i think it fits nicer than a simple armor or damage buff/debuff.
or maybe like...primal scream....lol
I see all the programmers around Hugh already had an influence on him. He's starting to measure hours with decimals now.
That's a great post, get it on these forums and on the main twitter imo =)
Fades, yes please! Don't see the reasoning for skulks though. 4 bites with the current armor upgrades is enough as is.
Get Hugh a sippy cup!
I don't really understand your logic here, it's an armor upgrade that the marine comm spent time and TRes on getting, the whole point is to make marines harder to kill.. if you negate that then what is the point in even having it in the game? by the time marines have armor 3 you should have fades and onoses. are you really trying to say a tier 1 starter lifeform should be able to easily kill a marine with end-game armour upgrades in FEWER than 4 bites?
so where's the t-res sink for aliens that make skulks non-worthless in the late game?
they have their own upgrades that cost what, 2 res each? if they're not good enough then maybe some scaling needs to happen, like 2 hives gives more carapace armour, 3 hives even more, then the later the game the better the upgrades become, thus less worthless skulks
I don't even know where to begin, surely i'm not the only one that sees how shortsighted it would be to not make any changes because of something like this?
I haven't read this design doc nor even know if it's available to read anywhere, but writing something down and then seeing how things turn out when played in reality is a different thing altogether, to not try and change your design to fix or accommodate unforseen problems just seems silly to me.
Balancing the lifeforms so that Onos wasn't just straight up better than Skulk or Lerk at everything would reduce mass Oni; the same goes for Fades. Alternatively, they can nerf Skulks even further, forcing large amounts of people to spend resources on Gorge and Lerk just to survive until Onos is possible. We already see this with Marines to some extent in that GLs are ###### at dealing with ambushes once everything turns into close-quarters chaos; you need SG Marines to defend the GLs if you don't want them to suicide every time a Skulk drops from the ceiling.
whaaaa? surely i can't be the only one who performs better as a skulk than onos. aside from mine clearing and breaking through sentry farms, skulk all the way!
please don't tease us. babblers next patch please?